RockThatBlue

Pagano called the team pitiful after Dallas preseason game

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RockThatBlue    6,370

And so on Saturday night Pagano called the team “pitiful” and called a holding penalty “foolish” and went so far as identify the foolish player by number, 62, which means second-year tackle Le’Raven Clark, who lost his job after one preseason game.

 

https://amp.indystar.com/amp/585835001

 

This is definitely a bit concerning(not his comments, but for the fact he had to say it), to say the least.

 

This is not meant to be a bash Pagano thread, we have plenty of other threads for that. But its meant to focus on his comments here. 

 

If he sees the Colts as pitiful, that's not good.

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chad72    6,435

Pagano can't win, in most people's eyes.

 

However, this is unlike Pagano and that is what bothers me. It seems like he is batting for someone else and not being himself. He has won enough being himself, doesn't have to prove it to anyone else except keep winning on the field. The true stories behind the scenes, we will never know.

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WoolMagnet    1,443

Keep details in the locker room Chuck.

the tuff guy approach is just making you look "foolish".

and benching arguably our best RT because of a holding penalty is not good coaching, imo.  Chuck looks lost and out of his comfort level.  Ive been on the fence with Chuck, but now i'm starting to get concerned.  Nothing worse than a flip-floppy coach.  It creates confusion throughout the team and other coaches.

sorry to say, but i think a change is needed.  After the season tho i guess, we dont wanna rush into a replacement.  Due diligence is needed.  Hopefully, w can find our coach for the next decade.

i think guys would be beating the door down to work with luck and ballard. Two of the best young QB/GM tandems in the league i think.

Ii am holding out hope Chuck proves me wrong, but i'm not holding my breath that he can.

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RockThatBlue    6,370
5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Pagano can't win, in most people's eyes.

 

However, this is unlike Pagano and that is what bothers me. It seems like he is batting for someone else and not being himself. He has won enough being himself, doesn't have to prove it to anyone else except keep winning on the field. The true stories behind the scenes, we will never know.

I think he just feels more pressure this year. He probably knows theres a real chance hes out if they go 8-8 again and miss the playoffs.

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HOF19    60

Lately I have been wondering if there is an OL that Pagano likes but Pagano feels somebody else in organization likes Clark.....Maybe I am correct in this or maybe not we may never know....If you can bear it NFL Network is replaying Colts-Dallas game  8PM tonight.....AS ALWAYS GO COLTS !

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CR91    5,248

I think pagano was referring more to the young players. Hes mentioned how he felt they didnt come to camp in the best shape and are not playing through injuries

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Malakai432    4,185

Sounds like a coach who has an unknown future and team full of unknowns lol.  I'm not shocked by this.  I don't think a lot of these players have played with Chuck before as it is so I don't think that would make them weaker to his "nice guy," mentality.  He has a bunch of young players that need to learn from their mistakes.  

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life long    171

I know one major problem is the defense. Just listened to monachino talk about the defense. I know we have to play the cards we are dealt. Yet, as far as I have heard we will be switching our dbs from zone to man to account what they do best. This is troubling to me, because it is obvious in crunch time what dbs will be running what. Obviously Davis runs man, but when a backup hits the field the other team likely has identified said player as zone or man. This allows an offense to exploit matchups. IMO we should just stick to man or zone, with a little peppering of the other. If Pagano wants to keep his job and relieve some stress he should try to become less predictable as a HC. 

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twfish    1,100

Well this is chucks team. There is no longer grigson as an excuse. It's all in his coaching ability. He's getting mad because players arent playing through injury? Look at our star QB who's out right now, i cant imagain him playing through his injury helped it at all. You want to single a guy out thats fine, do it in the locker room. I'm all for throwing a guy on a bench for messing up. Pagano doesn't seem right this year at all. I don't have faith in him this year and I'm doubting some of the players do

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RockThatBlue    6,370
14 minutes ago, Superman said:

Actually what he said was it's pitiful to go 5/40 on third down (5/30, really, but point made and taken). He didn't call the team pitiful. 

Did not know this. Thanks. Doyle made it sound like he called the entire team pitiful. 5-30 is definitely pitiful.

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myic90    156

Nothing's really going to make me feel better about Chuck, I just want the guy gone.

 

I've seen what I've need to see in the past five years.

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NewColtsFan    12,966
11 minutes ago, CyberTwin said:

From my impression, this is the way Pagano has been wanting to coach this team and was never allowed to.

 

“Grigson is significantly more involved in the coaching area than [Bill] Polian ever was,” Kravitz writes. “Sources tell me Grigson not only dictated who would and would not play but undermined Pagano when he wanted to discipline certain players.”

 

 

First, Kravitz writes that, after trading for running back Trent Richardson in 2013, Grigson continued to insist that Richardson play, even though he wasn’t playing very well. “According to sources, Grigson was concerned with creating the narrative that it was a good trade,” Kravitz says.

 

Second, Kravitz reports that Grigson insisted on the use of punt returner Josh Cribbs last year, against the desires of Pagano and several members of his staff.

 

Third, Kravitz explains that Grigson kept Pagano from disciplining certain players he wanted to discipline.

 

Fourth, Kravitz says that Grigson forced former offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton on Pagano. “Pep was never answerable to Chuck. Pep answered to Ryan, and everybody in the building knew it,” Kravitz said, citing an unnamed source.

 

Now that Grigson is gone and not micromanaging the team and Pagano he is allowed to be who he is and we are seeing the real Pagano now. That is why he was the cheerleader coach before cause his hands were tied and out of frustration he would clap his hands and say we'll get them next time. If players don't like it they can move on cause this is how he is going to be for now on.

 

He is giving them the Belichick treatment. Do your job and do it right and be there for your team or you won't be here. This is the way people said he needed to be and now they don't like it. I just don't get it. I like it and it will make this team better. This is a new culture they are bringing here to toughen this team up and make them better. It is not just Pagano, but also Ballard who feels this way too.

 

 

You're a "rookie" and this is just your 6th post?!?

 

Wow!     heckuva an effort!   

 

Please,  keep it coming.     This will be very much appreicated by many here....

 

Welcome to the website.....     hope you enjoy it!          :thmup:

 

 

:colts:

 

 

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RockThatBlue    6,370
6 minutes ago, krunk said:

I'm rooting for Chuck to be honest. 

Everyone should be. Not a big Chuck fan myself and would not have been mad if Irsay made a change at HC last year, but as long as hes here I hope hes great. If he succeeds the Colts will. 

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BR-549    1,077
19 minutes ago, myic90 said:

Nothing's really going to make me feel better about Chuck, I just want the guy gone.

 

I've seen what I've need to see in the past five years.

I can understand why you would say that, but for me I just want the guy to be the guy he is.  If this is it AND he does a better job coaching why wouldn't you want him to stay?  None of us know anything about what went on between the two of them and if Grigson did actually shackle him and he is now free of that what is wrong with seeing what he can do?

 

Anyway, no reason to get into another debate about "this, that and the other" (I think CP says that a lot right)... lets just get the season going and get our team healthy and see what the hell we have.

 

I just want us to win

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Fisticuffs111    354
10 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Everyone should be. Not a big Chuck fan myself and would not have been mad if Irsay made a change at HC last year, but as long as hes here I hope hes great. If he succeeds the Colts will. 


Yup. I'm like you, would've been fine with making a change last year, but people should be rooting for Chuck because if he is successful then that means the team is as well.

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OLD FAN MAN    418
51 minutes ago, Superman said:

Actually what he said was it's pitiful to go 5/40 on third down (5/30, really, but point made and taken). He didn't call the team pitiful. 

i concur

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cbear    527
1 hour ago, CyberTwin said:

From my impression, this is the way Pagano has been wanting to coach this team and was never allowed to.

 

“Grigson is significantly more involved in the coaching area than [Bill] Polian ever was,” Kravitz writes. “Sources tell me Grigson not only dictated who would and would not play but undermined Pagano when he wanted to discipline certain players.”

 

 

First, Kravitz writes that, after trading for running back Trent Richardson in 2013, Grigson continued to insist that Richardson play, even though he wasn’t playing very well. “According to sources, Grigson was concerned with creating the narrative that it was a good trade,” Kravitz says.

 

Second, Kravitz reports that Grigson insisted on the use of punt returner Josh Cribbs last year, against the desires of Pagano and several members of his staff.

 

Third, Kravitz explains that Grigson kept Pagano from disciplining certain players he wanted to discipline.

 

Fourth, Kravitz says that Grigson forced former offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton on Pagano. “Pep was never answerable to Chuck. Pep answered to Ryan, and everybody in the building knew it,” Kravitz said, citing an unnamed source.

 

Now that Grigson is gone and not micromanaging the team and Pagano he is allowed to be who he is and we are seeing the real Pagano now. That is why he was the cheerleader coach before cause his hands were tied and out of frustration he would clap his hands and say we'll get them next time. If players don't like it they can move on cause this is how he is going to be for now on.

 

He is giving them the Belichick treatment. Do your job and do it right and be there for your team or you won't be here. This is the way people said he needed to be and now they don't like it. I just don't get it. I like it and it will make this team better. This is a new culture they are bringing here to toughen this team up and make them better. It is not just Pagano, but also Ballard who feels this way too.

 

Maybe this is the real Pagano.  I don't think so, but interesting thought nonetheless.

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ReMeDy    2,170

I was one of the original supporters in favor of Chuck being tougher and lighting a fire under our players, and I'm not backing down now. I love what I'm hearing from him! It's time to start holding our players more accountable. I don't know what the catalyst was for Pagano's personality change, but I'll take it!

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southwest1    10,377
3 hours ago, twfish said:

Well this is chucks team. There is no longer grigson as an excuse. It's all in his coaching ability. He's getting mad because players arent playing through injury? Look at our star QB who's out right now, i cant imagain him playing through his injury helped it at all. You want to single a guy out thats fine, do it in the locker room. I'm all for throwing a guy on a bench for messing up. Pagano doesn't seem right this year at all. I don't have faith in him this year and I'm doubting some of the players do

This is pretty much my take on Pagano. I just don't buy this notion that Grigson held all the power, got chummy with Jimmy, & because of this alliance Chuck couldn't get anything he wanted done. If he got us to the Deflate Game vs NE, then that demonstrates that the working relationship between the owner, then GM, & Pags must not have been as horrific as some prefer to claim that it was. 

 

Also, you can't tell me that Chuck was afraid to teach & discipline players as he saw fit either. This is professional not pee wee football. All coaches at this level know that running a football program as a HC is an exclusive club so do it your way without any regrets because if you get the boot; it might be a long wait until another vacancy becomes available to do the same thing in another city. 

 

I know what the excuse is gonna be after this year. Our roster was overcome with injuries give Chuck more time. No! No! No! 5 years will be plenty to determine that Chuck will never win a ring under his stewardship. Time to start the search & screen committee of candidates on Pagano's replacement now. I'm so sick & tired of Pagano keeps getting a bad deal. Maybe he's just not good enough at this level. 

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southwest1    10,377

Look, I will never criticize any Colt fan for lending their support to whoever is patrolling the LOS sidelines in Indiana. My only issue is this: That support has limits especially when we keep moving early on offense & defense on our home field. This isn't just a rookie problem. It's a coaching problem.

 

Slow starts make us grueling to watch & by the time the season rolls around--Will we be competitive at all? Notice I didn't mandate wins. I said be competitive. Can we score early? Okay, the defense has made some impressive plays in the preseason. I will acknowledge that. 

 

When games matter, will we fold or not? When defenses start scheming against us for real, will we be respectable or a laughing stock? I don't have a good feeling to be honest. 

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southwest1    10,377
3 hours ago, CyberTwin said:

Thanks, I have been reading the site for a long time and hope to be more involved.

You're post earlier on this page was very well written CT. I disagreed with the vast majority of it, but you stated your point of view quite well nevertheless. 

 

Welcome to the forum. I look forward to reading your perspectives frequently in the future. --SW1

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crazycolt1    6,253

Wow, Chuck gets tough and starts calling out players who are not giving 100% and still gets grilled for it.

Then a new member post some pretty telling stuff that explains a major problem and then some don't care to believe it because it don't fit their narrative to derail Pagano.

Just maybe Irsay knew this and that explains why Grigson was fired and Pagano was retained?

Not one of us knows what goes on behind closed doors. But Irsay does because he owns those doors. Him and his daughters have their hands in every phase of this organization and know more than any one of us.

We can have all of our opinions but that is all they are, opinions not facts.

One fact that no one can dispute is Irsay wants Pagano to be the head coach of the Colts no matter what anyone thinks. That is the way it is like it or not.

This back and forth bickering means absolutely nothing at this time. Lets just let this play out.

 

 

 

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GoColts8818    7,289
5 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Did not know this. Thanks. Doyle made it sound like he called the entire team pitiful. 5-30 is definitely pitiful.

Doyle twist something for a better story?  Never!

 

There is a lot of sarcasm there none of which is directed at you.

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GoColts8818    7,289
5 hours ago, krunk said:

I'm rooting for Chuck to be honest. 

Me too.  If he does well the team does well and that's what I want at the end of the day.

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myic90    156
5 hours ago, BR-549 said:

I can understand why you would say that, but for me I just want the guy to be the guy he is.  If this is it AND he does a better job coaching why wouldn't you want him to stay?  None of us know anything about what went on between the two of them and if Grigson did actually shackle him and he is now free of that what is wrong with seeing what he can do?

 

Anyway, no reason to get into another debate about "this, that and the other" (I think CP says that a lot right)... lets just get the season going and get our team healthy and see what the hell we have.

 

I just want us to win

 

I suppose. From my point of view, he's gotten a DC, an OC, a GM & multiple position coaches replaced. The same problems from 2012 still remain to this day. Through the process of elimination, I can only conclude Chuck's to blame. All I see from the interviews is a person running out of excuses.

 

Whatever. It's done. Winning changes everything. Let's hope for the best.

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Fisticuffs111    354

I feel like people are getting a little overly defensive of Pagano lately.

Which I understand, I get that some have been negative. But lately this place is seemingly filled with more callouts of people who badmouth Pagano than there actually are posts badmouthing him.

People have their opinions on him, that's fine. Hopefully they'll be proven wrong if and when he has this team ready to win some ball games in the regular season. Or at least has them competitive if Luck is out for however long.

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twfish    1,100
4 hours ago, myic90 said:

 

I suppose. From my point of view, he's gotten a DC, an OC, a GM & multiple position coaches replaced. The same problems from 2012 still remain to this day. Through the process of elimination, I can only conclude Chuck's to blame. All I see from the interviews is a person running out of excuses.

 

Whatever. It's done. Winning changes everything. Let's hope for the best.

This. He's gotten pretty well everyone besides him replaced, he's got no one to blame but himself.

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King Colt    873

Parcells and Belichick would have used those words and that clears Pagano in my book. If the team stinks you say, "the team stinks". Stop worrying about being politically and sensitively correct and start kicking butts.

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crazycolt1    6,253
20 minutes ago, twfish said:

This. He's gotten pretty well everyone besides him replaced, he's got no one to blame but himself.

From what I read about things that go on in the NFL pretty much all the teams have a turnover in those positions. It is not an unusual thing to happen and happens with most teams on a regular bases.

But because it happens with the Colts naturally it's all on Chuck. Why not? :sarcasm:

 

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Fisticuffs111    354
16 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

From what I read about things that go on in the NFL pretty much all the teams have a turnover in those positions. It is not an unusual thing to happen and happens with most teams on a regular bases.

But because it happens with the Colts naturally it's all on Chuck. Why not? :sarcasm:

 


I don't think we usually see turnover like this unless there's been a HC change. 

I'm not saying I blame Chuck but I think it's pretty valid to question if he's put the right staff around him.

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crazycolt1    6,253
7 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:


Not really, you don't usually see turnover like this everywhere else unless it's an unsuccessful team.

I'm not saying I blame Chuck but I think it's completely valid to bring up that we've turned over the coaching staff a lot more than your average team.

I could be wrong but I don't think so. Regardless the turnover with the Colts IMO were needed at that time.

Exactly who placed those positional coaches in their places is not exactly clear.

Heck, the water boy can be late 10 minutes and it would be Chuck's fault.

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Fisticuffs111    354
2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I could be wrong but I don't think so. Regardless the turnover with the Colts IMO were needed at that time.

Exactly who placed those positional coaches in their places is not exactly clear.

Heck, the water boy can be late 10 minutes and it would be Chuck's fault.


I think there's truth to the rumor that Grigson picked Pep. So yeah, I don't think Chuck really got to pick his staff, for the most part, until this recent overhaul.

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Restored    1,149
8 hours ago, southwest1 said:

This is pretty much my take on Pagano. I just don't buy this notion that Grigson held all the power, got chummy with Jimmy, & because of this alliance Chuck couldn't get anything he wanted done. If he got us to the Deflate Game vs NE, then that demonstrates that the working relationship between the owner, then GM, & Pags must not have been as horrific as some prefer to claim that it was. 

 

Also, you can't tell me that Chuck was afraid to teach & discipline players as he saw fit either. This is professional not pee wee football. All coaches at this level know that running a football program as a HC is an exclusive club so do it your way without any regrets because if you get the boot; it might be a long wait until another vacancy becomes available to do the same thing in another city. 

 

I know what the excuse is gonna be after this year. Our roster was overcome with injuries give Chuck more time. No! No! No! 5 years will be plenty to determine that Chuck will never win a ring under his stewardship. Time to start the search & screen committee of candidates on Pagano's replacement now. I'm so sick & tired of Pagano keeps getting a bad deal. Maybe he's just not good enough at this level. 

 

I have to respectfully disagree here on a few things SW. For one, as another poster pointed out, there have been plenty of instances that showed where Grigson undermined the coaching staff. Just because they worked together on Deflategate doesn't mean that they could've had issues elsewhere.

 

While it is pro football, ego's run rampant in this business. Grigson had a reputation for having a inflated ego (plenty of articles and stories about it). It's entirely plausible that Grigson pushed the staff to play certain players (ie. Trent Richardson). Also, if Pagano opted to go against Grigson's orders, he could've been fired for undermining his boss. And when coaches get fired in this business, it's VERY tough for them to rebound back into a staff position on a team, let alone a head coaching job.

 

This last part I do somewhat agree with. Regardless of the circumstances this year, this team cannot miss the playoffs or else Chuck will be gone. I honestly thought changing out a good portion of the coaching staff and letting them get a few seasons would be best for the team heading into this year instead of clearing house, especially with Luck being projected to miss the whole offseason. But if this team can't rebound and make the playoffs this year, Chuck should/will be let go.

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