Dakich on Pagano.....

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, WoolMagnet said:

Starting to think Dachik and Kravitz are twins separated at birth.

yeah, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

3 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Not opposed to him.  Good D coordinator.

Not sure who he is, gonna have to look into him

[Jason_]

35 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Does it kill you that RG3 could have been ours also?

 

that was never going to happen unless the Colts did not wind up with the #1 pick. ;)

[Jackie Daytona]

14 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Easy.  Kevin Costner and the Cleveland Browns. 

 

Seriously though, I'd still love to know how they had a little WR ranked that high on their 15 draft board.

Dorsett was drafted 29th, right where pretty much every evaluator said he would, and should..... get picked  anything else is revisionist history...... Dorsett has by no means lived up to his draft position, but let's not act like "Only Indy was dumb enough to draft him anywhere near the end of the 1st"  as many seem to want to suggest.....

[Malakai432]

It wouldn't surprise me either way.  Dakich isn't really credible when IMO when it comes to anything football related.  Pagano on the other hand has been HC here for going on 6 years now?  He's had a very long tenure for a moderate coach who's team has been on the decline for the last two years.  Heck sometimes really good coaches don't seem to last that long if they have a couple down years.  Fortunately for him, the organization put the blame on Grigson it seems for the lack of roster.  

 

I don't think he's going to last after this year, they will ride him out this season but I personally think he has a 95% chance of NOT being here next year.  I'm not in panic mode because it's the preseason but I do think Luck will miss a couple games and it may be hard to recover + the whole rebuild, ect.  

 

Basically in the end it seems Pagano is tasked with taking little talent and turning it around in a year.  That would even be hard for BB to do.  

[Smonroe]

1 minute ago, Shafty138 said:

Dorsett was drafted 29th, right where pretty much every evaluator said he would, and should..... get picked  anything else is revisionist history...... Dorsett has by no means lived up to his draft position, but let's not act like "Only Indy was dumb enough to draft him anywhere near the end of the 1st"  as many seem to want to suggest.....

 

I don't care where everyone had him mocked.  As you know, every year the mocks are way off usually after the top 10.  This year they were totally off.  No matter what Mayock or Kiper say, they don't have the resources like an NFL team.

 

More importantly, a teams draft board takes into account need.  The Colts weren't going to pick a QB in the first round the last 4 years no matter how high he was on others draft boards.  So it's not revisionist history to say the need was more for a D player (or O lineman) than any WR. 

 

No one is saying he shouldn't have been drafted in the first round.  But I think just about every Colts fan was saying he shouldn't have been drafted by us.  The need wasn't there.

[Boiler_Colt]

56 minutes ago, TKnight24 said:

Landon Collins 

Xavier Rhodes

Tevin Coleman 

 

 

All should've been in Colts uniforms 

 

More like David Johnson over Coleman. Oh, what could have been.

[Jackie Daytona]

2 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I don't care where everyone had him mocked.  As you know, every year the mocks are way off usually after the top 10.  This year they were totally off.  No matter what Mayock or Kiper say, they don't have the resources like an NFL team.

 

More importantly, a teams draft board takes into account need.  The Colts weren't going to pick a QB in the first round the last 4 years no matter how high he was on others draft boards.  So it's not revisionist history to say the need was more for a D player (or O lineman) than any WR. 

 

No one is saying he shouldn't have been drafted in the first round.  But I think just about every Colts fan was saying he shouldn't have been drafted by us.  The need wasn't there.

Sure it was, Reggie was on the brink of retirement and hurt, and TY was not re-signed at that point.  I was not completely sold on the position at the time, but I could see the logic.

[bananabucket]

1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

 

No one is saying he shouldn't have been drafted in the first round. 

 

I am.

 

But the whole "we could have had Landon Collins!!" thing is annoying.  Basically everyone wanted Malcom Brown.  I'd say Collins was polarizing but even that is a stretch.

[DougDew]

26 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I don't care where everyone had him mocked.  As you know, every year the mocks are way off usually after the top 10.  This year they were totally off.  No matter what Mayock or Kiper say, they don't have the resources like an NFL team.

 

More importantly, a teams draft board takes into account need.  The Colts weren't going to pick a QB in the first round the last 4 years no matter how high he was on others draft boards.  So it's not revisionist history to say the need was more for a D player (or O lineman) than any WR. 

 

No one is saying he shouldn't have been drafted in the first round.  But I think just about every Colts fan was saying he shouldn't have been drafted by us.  The need wasn't there.

The need was definitely there.  The only WR on the roster worth anything was TY, and he had contract issues.  We had just lost 45-9 in the AFCCG because the Pats kept getting the ball with a short field because we went 3 and out so often.  Fans typically blamed the defense.  Not too many saw it, but WR was as much a need as any other position that draft.

 

[Smonroe]

8 minutes ago, bananabucket said:

 

I am.

 

But the whole "we could have had Landon Collins!!" thing is annoying.  Basically everyone wanted Malcom Brown.  I'd say Collins was polarizing but even that is a stretch.

 

Whether or not Dorsett was first round talent is moot.  Now we know he isn't, but that's hindsight.  I'm in the camp that a great QB and a decent O line makes really good WRs.  We already had the great QB, so... 

 

Maybe since I live in Bama I got more of the Collins hype.  I thought he'd be a natural fit on our team.  Apparently at least a couple other teams didn't think he was first round worthy either.  And I felt a little better when he didn't do all that well his rookie season.  But things change...

[Smonroe]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The need was definitely there.  The only WR on the roster worth anything was TY, and he had contract issues.  We had just lost 45-9 in the AFCCG because the Pats kept getting the ball with a short field because we went 3 and out so often.  Fans typically blamed the defense.  Not too many saw it, but WR was as much a need as any other position that draft.

 

 

We'll have to disagree on that.  Reggie and TY (who had another year on his contract) were going to be our top 2 WRs.  A #3 WR couldn't have been too high on the list of needs.  Not with that O line and just about every D position.

 

I'm not sure how this thread go off the rails.  But obviously we all have our own opinions on that draft.  And they're just that - opinions. 

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

We'll have to disagree on that.  Reggie and TY (who had another year on his contract) were going to be our top 2 WRs.  A #3 WR couldn't have been too high on the list of needs.  Not with that O line and just about every D position.

 

I'm not sure how this thread go off the rails.  But obviously we all have our own opinions on that draft.  And they're just that - opinions. 

Yeah, but Reggie was 34 or 35 and coming off of knee reconstruction.  He was done, and TY's contract was uncertain.  Gotta look beyond the immediate next season.  

 

As far as the thread, if the players are mad at Pagano for not standing up to Ballard for making practices more physical, it sounds like the team is a bunch of babies.

 

Or trained to be babies by Pagano.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Who keeps the head coach out of the draft room?       Which team?       None that I know of....

 

A coach should always have a voice in the players that are picked.      Perhaps not the last voice,  that's for the GM and/or owner.     But the HC always needs to have input.

 

 

Other  HC's yeah, but not pagano. Btw,how has his input worked out?

He was thrown a bone to feel like he's part of the process after he felt humiliated the years before by Griggs & Irsay. The teams roster has suffered by his "input".

[Luck is Good]

We'll see what Pagano can do this year

[TheMarine]

1 hour ago, deedub75 said:

You listen to that crap?  I change the radio station when his commercials come on.  

 

I dont know who's worse: Dakich's commercials or the "Sisters of Savings"

[Jason_]

31 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

Other  HC's yeah, but not pagano. Btw,how has his input worked out?

He was thrown a bone to feel like he's part of the process after he felt humiliated the years before by Griggs & Irsay. The teams roster has suffered by his "input".

 

Prove it.  Prove that all of the bad players that were brought in were Pagano's choices and the good ones were not.

[shasta519]

52 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The need was definitely there.  The only WR on the roster worth anything was TY, and he had contract issues.  We had just lost 45-9 in the AFCCG because the Pats kept getting the ball with a short field because we went 3 and out so often.  Fans typically blamed the defense.  Not too many saw it, but WR was as much a need as any other position that draft.

 

 

That's not true. Hilton was going to be a priority to re-sign...and was extended a couple months after the draft.

 

Moncrief was heading into his second season after a promising rookie season.

 

And weeks before the draft, they had signed Andre Johnson to a fairly significant two-year deal (and Gore as well) to replace Wayne and be their established WR2.

 

A WR3 should have been far down on the list of targets heading into the 2015 season...especially for a team whose defense couldn't stop NE.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

 

Easy.  Kevin Costner and the Cleveland Browns. 

 

Seriously though, I'd still love to know how they had a little WR ranked that high on their 15 draft board.

 

I think Dorsett ran sub-4.3.      And they fell in love with that........

 

[Jason_]

39 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

We'll have to disagree on that.  Reggie and TY (who had another year on his contract) were going to be our top 2 WRs.  A #3 WR couldn't have been too high on the list of needs.  Not with that O line and just about every D position.

 

I'm not sure how this thread go off the rails.  But obviously we all have our own opinions on that draft.  And they're just that - opinions. 

 

Your timeline is off.  Reggie was a Free Agent at the time (and wound up signing with the Patriots) as was Hilton.  Hilton didn't get re-signed until August, several months after Dorsett was drafted.

[NewColtsFan]

39 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

Other  HC's yeah, but not pagano. Btw,how has his input worked out?

He was thrown a bone to feel like he's part of the process after he felt humiliated the years before by Griggs & Irsay. The teams roster has suffered by his "input".

 

What makes you think you have any idea --- any at all --- about how much input Pagano has had to know if Pagano's input has worked out or not?

 

No one on this website has any idea.      

 

Ultimately,  it's not about Pagano's input.     It's about the decisions that the GM,  the director of college scouting,  and the scouts make that impacts things the most.

 

 

[Jason_]

2 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

That's not true. Hilton was going to be a priority to re-sign...and was extended a couple months after the draft.

 

Moncrief was heading into his second season after a promising rookie season.

 

And weeks before the draft, they had signed a 31 year-old Andre Johnson to a fairly significant two-year deal (and Gore as well) to replace Wayne and be their established WR2.

 

A WR3 should have been far down on the list of targets heading into the 2015 season...especially for a team whose defense couldn't stop NE.

 

Yes, Hilton was "a priority" to re-sign, but unless you JUST started watching the NFL, you should know that being a priority doesn't mean anything if the 2 sides can't agree on terms.  There was absolutely no way to guarantee as of the time of the draft that Hilton would still be the #1 heading into 2016.

 

Yes, Moncrief was heading into his second season...but again, that doesn't mean much of anything.  How many times have we seen guys be good or show promise one year only to flame out and never show anything after that.  

 

And yes they had just signed Johnson...to a short term "stop-gap" deal.  That means he was never in their long term plans, and you have to think long term when it comes to the draft.

 

I'm not saying that WR was our biggest need...not even the biggest need on offense at the time..that would have been OL.  But WR was definitely not a position that we were so set in that a 1st round WR should be off the table.

[Jason_]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

What makes you think you have any idea --- any at all --- about how much input Pagano has had to know if Pagano's input has worked out or not?

 

 

Oh well I can answer that...Pagano hatred.

[GoColts8818]

7 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Your timeline is off.  Reggie was a Free Agent at the time (and wound up signing with the Patriots) as was Hilton.  Hilton didn't get re-signed until August, several months after Dorsett was drafted.

Not to mention the fact Reggie and the Pats agreed To part ways before the season started and Reggie retired helps prove the argument that Reggie was done.

[GoColts8818]

9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

What makes you think you have any idea --- any at all --- about how much input Pagano has had to know if Pagano's input has worked out or not?

 

No one on this website has any idea.      

 

Ultimately,  it's not about Pagano's input.     It's about the decisions that the GM,  the director of college scouting,  and the scouts make that impacts things the most.

 

 

Which is why Grigson was shown the door.  Look Pagano has a lot of things he can blamed for which have been discussed at length here over the years but drafting the players isn't one of them.  Like you pointed out while a Head Coach may have input at the end of the day that falls on the GM.

 

people can't have it both ways and say our GM stinks at drafting (which he did for the most part) and then blame the head coach for it after the GM was fired because people are looking for any reason to dislike Pagano right now.  

 

Again, I remain on the Pagano should have been fired bandwagon but I am not just going to start blaming him for everything.

[Smitto]

It'd be funny if the Colts actually have a good start to the season, without luck... Wonder what people would say about Pagano then... Lotta stuff is going on with the Colts right now but I got a feeling they're gonna be just fine. 

[BR-549]

8 minutes ago, Smitto said:

It'd be funny if the Colts actually have a good start to the season, without luck... Wonder what people would say about Pagano then... Lotta stuff is going on with the Colts right now but I got a feeling they're gonna be just fine. 

I, for one, hope you are right on all accounts

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

Other  HC's yeah, but not pagano. Btw,how has his input worked out?

He was thrown a bone to feel like he's part of the process after he felt humiliated the years before by Griggs & Irsay. The teams roster has suffered by his "input".

Who knows, because we don't know who Pagano wanted or had input on.  It's easy to say Pags wanted Werner, Green and Smith but since Grigson was the one fired and not Pags, logic dictates that was not the case.

[Jdubu]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Who keeps the head coach out of the draft room?       Which team?       None that I know of....

 

A coach should always have a voice in the players that are picked.      Perhaps not the last voice,  that's for the GM and/or owner.     But the HC always needs to have input.

 

I would assume a very good team would allow his coach to choose 10-20 players they like and why they would fit and maybe even how they rank them for slotting in the draft. The GM has his own process he views prospects, slots them and picks them out for his board. Maybe a GM even says if you have 1 single pick, who is your first choice and what do you expect from them year 1 into year 4? Then once the GM has finalized his board in the end, he has input from his head coach on players he wants vs players the GM has scouted and slotted for the big board and likely (hopefully) these wants and needs shake up to a match or very similar in matches with players and style. I mean if you have a coach telling you I need cb's to run my bump and run defense and he goes out and selects 4 possible guys that excel in zone for his board because the GM feels these guys grade out better in his opinion, you have a great divide between the two and it isn't going to end well. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I don't believe anything Dakich says. You do know he was a Grigson guy as well. He also said last season Carson Wentz was the real deal and Luck wasn't .

[shasta519]

37 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Yes, Hilton was "a priority" to re-sign, but unless you JUST started watching the NFL, you should know that being a priority doesn't mean anything if the 2 sides can't agree on terms.  There was absolutely no way to guarantee as of the time of the draft that Hilton would still be the #1 heading into 2016.

 

Yes, Moncrief was heading into his second season...but again, that doesn't mean much of anything.  How many times have we seen guys be good or show promise one year only to flame out and never show anything after that.  

 

And yes they had just signed Johnson...to a short term "stop-gap" deal.  That means he was never in their long term plans, and you have to think long term when it comes to the draft.

 

I'm not saying that WR was our biggest need...not even the biggest need on offense at the time..that would have been OL.  But WR was definitely not a position that we were so set in that a 1st round WR should be off the table.

 

I don't buy Dorsett as insurance to Hilton. They knew what it would take to get Hilton to extend his contract...and they ultimately paid it.   

 

I also didn't say WR was off the board...just that it was low on the list of targets. Considering the Colts were making obviously making a move to win a Super Bowl in the next year or two, WR was a position where the player would have to be a much better player than any ILB/S/DL/OL player available at that same spot to justify picking him. If Amari Cooper would have been available at that pick...absolutely pick him. But Dorsett was not that player. He was a speedster who wasn't going to see much of the field in his first season. And if they wanted that type of player, Lockett was a better choice because at least he could have impacted the return game (not to mention he had far better college production). 

 

That offseason was just a cluster#. They made several win-now moves in FA (one that was just awful) and then drafted a depth player and a project with the first two picks...when they could have drafted an ILB to work with DJax and a dynamic RB to pair with Gore.

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

 

I don't buy Dorsett as insurance to Hilton. They knew what it would take to get Hilton to extend his contract...and they ultimately paid it.   

 

 

didn't realize you were in the contract negotiation meetings.  my bad

[John Waylon]

I usually stop at Dakich, but I dunno. This one just feels kind of legit to me. Pagano has a history as a players coach, and Ballard came in and wants to change the culture. That not sitting well with people used to Pagano's light workload does make sense. I won't go as far as to say I believe it, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[BR-549]

Dakich....  I respect him almost as much as I do Bob Kravitz

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 minute ago, J@son said:

 

didn't realize you were in the contract negotiation meetings.  my bad

 

Are people ever going to stop whining about the Dorsett pick, or is that something that we're all just going to have to deal with forever?

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Are people ever going to stop whining about the Dorsett pick, or is that something that we're all just going to have to deal with forever?

 

starting to seem like the latter is correct unfortunately

[BR-549]

2 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Are people ever going to stop whining about the Dorsett pick, or is that something that we're all just going to have to deal with forever?

Did you mean Dorsett or Pagano?

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Are people ever going to stop whining about the Dorsett pick, or is that something that we're all just going to have to deal with forever?

 

That was the price we had to pay to get people to stop complaining about the Pat Angerer pick...

[Superman]

1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

A WR3 should have been far down on the list of targets heading into the 2015 season...especially for a team whose defense couldn't stop NE.

 

Good drafters don't draft for the needs of one season. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

6 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

starting to seem like the latter is correct unfortunately

 

Seriously. He's a much better player than Bjoern Werner or Trent Richardson were, he was just drafted a little higher than he should've been, that's it.

[Colts_Fan12]

This would be good news so it's prolly not true