When will Luck be taken off PUP?

SilentHill · August 26, 2017

17 hours ago, Superman said:

Yeah, don't hold your breath.

I understand why it's important to you as a fan, but that's not really relevant. There's no advantage to the team or the league to committing to a time frame for return from injury.

I don't want a commitment to a time frame, I just want transparency.

I believe that it would be in the leagues interest to have such transparency as it will not make the NFL seem like a childish game of "i won't tell!"

jbaron04 · August 26, 2017

Luck gonna miss the first 2-4 weeks

Colts never get guys back fast from injury and keep him on the pup list doe what for them, keeps him away from The media or something? Cause he could practice but just not suit up etc...

TheOptimist88 · August 26, 2017

Assuming he is taken off PUP before the regular season starts, what is the date that has to happen by?

It is concerning to me that he hasn't been taken off PUP heading into the 3rd pre-season game. Surely with the season 20 days away we should know by now if Luck will be available in the first 6 weeks of the season.

He has to be taken off by the 2nd of September

*

ColtsBlueFL · August 26, 2017

3 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

Luck gonna miss the first 2-4 weeks

Colts never get guys back fast from injury and keep him on the pup list doe what for them, keeps him away from The media or something? Cause he could practice but just not suit up etc...

Keeping Luck on the PUP list does many things...

1. Allows him access to all the Colts facilities, medical team, and attend all team meetings/film session/classroom game plan installs, etc.... What he cannot do (at all, against the rules) is participate in any way for any length of time in any on the field practice session(s). Once activated from the PUP, the player cannot be placed back on it, in pre-season or regular season.

2. You must already be on the Active PUP (pre-season) to be able to be placed on the Reserve PUP. (regular season) The Reserve PUP is for players that have been determined to not be ready for many weeks after the regular season begins. Thus you can keep your player, and not have him count against your 53 man roster while he continues to recover into playing condition by moving him from the Active PUP to the Reserve PUP on September 2, 2017; if necessary. {We all hope this is not the case for Andrew}

People need to realize a couple things here. the shoulder is one of the most complex joints in the body, throwing is one of the most unnatural and high stress conditions being asked of that complex joint. That is why for QB's and baseball pitchers (for just 2 examples others might be tennis or volleyball players etc...) must develop and use proper technique. Pitchers never get 'hit' by their opponent, yet suffer shoulder issues too. a fully recovered and stable should is so vital.

realize, Luck has not been lounging on his couch eating Doritos and Bonbons for 7 months. He's been involved in a progressively aggressive rehab program that is specific and measurable and has goals to reach before advancing to the next level.

Now it was 'leaked' / 'reported that Luck was throwing footballs 30 yards. Now, that hints to me one of two things if the report is true (which is not verified either), he either has nearly completely finished his rehab program and is just in a final phase of throwing repetitions to gain more strength and stamina before being released to practice and perform specific route(s) and team drills, (that is my hope) or, He is still in Phase III of an Interval Throwing Program and must still complete the 40 yard and 50 yard phases of the program before being cleared. None of you, nor I have any clue as of yet which of these two it is. But the date of September 2 will tell us all we need to know (or before if activated from the Active PUP).

Mys estimation is once activated from the Active PUP, it will be 2-3 more weeks before he is in 'football' shape and developed his timing/accuracy and deemed ready for actual game day play.

Needless to say, these next 7 days are crucial and somewhere during it will reveal much about Andrew, even if the team never utters a single word about him.

Steamboat_Shaun · August 26, 2017

19 hours ago, dgambill said:

OMG.....this season really is going to be 2011 all over again....Peyton watch all over....I mean Andrew watch all over lol.....I know this one guy who knows a guy that talked to the janitor at the stadium says Luck completed a pass to BLUE! Zonkers...he is going to start week 1!!!! lol I'm not looking forward to this season.

What?

TheOptimist88 · August 26, 2017

Luck not starting week 1 or 2 is not going to derail our season. At worst we go 0-2 and we've been there before with Luck. The defense just didn't cut us any breaks last year. We lost 3 games we should've won last year and the defense didn't hold. An upgraded rushing attack and a turnover happy defense will make us a lot better.

throwing BBZ · August 26, 2017

On 8/21/2017 at 9:16 AM, SilentHill said:

Assuming he is taken off PUP before the regular season starts, what is the date that has to happen by?

It is concerning to me that he hasn't been taken off PUP heading into the 3rd pre-season game. Surely with the season 20 days away we should know by now if Luck will be available in the first 6 weeks of the season.

Just wondering, how many times, how many ways do they have to tell you?

Superman · August 26, 2017

7 hours ago, SilentHill said:

I don't want a commitment to a time frame, I just want transparency.

I believe that it would be in the leagues interest to have such transparency as it will not make the NFL seem like a childish game of "i won't tell!"

You want congressional level disclosure, and I understand why, but there's no benefit to the player, the team, or the league, so it's not a change that's likely to happen.

dgambill · August 26, 2017

21 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I know people are concerned, rightly so, but that might well be an overreaction... at this time... unless... They do not activate him soon, and they end up placing luck on the Reserve/PUP after 4:00 pm on September 2. Only then am I becoming concerned. Until then, I am holding out hope he he gets activated soon and will play within 2-3 weeks after that. That's still my story, and I'm sticking to it. {Believe with me Colts fans}

What I want is see young kids (rooks and sophomores) develop their potential significantly, starting O-line get chemistry and stay healthy and we are at least at a .500 record six games in. Then see what we do from there.

I was being slightly sarcastic but I do think this team without Luck is about as good as our 2-14 2011 team....I also think we would be lucky to go 500 without Luck. Plus if Luck comes back by week 4 or 5 do you really think he is going to be in mid season form?? I think he will struggle for 2 to 3 weeks. We could very well be 2-5 or 1-6 to start the season even if Luck makes it back by week 4 or 5. I just am trying to be realistic. I've predicted 9-7 and 8-8 seasons the past few years for us...I try to be very realistic....and that's just the way I see this season if Luck misses a month...it might be two months before he gets comfortable out there and by then the playoffs are likely out of reach.

dgambill · August 26, 2017

3 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

What?

I was having fun with the whole some guy saw Andrew throw a 30 yd pass and the speculation of when he will be back. We had the same thing with Peyton in 2011....secret throwing sessions and rumors and he ended up missing the season and we ended up 2-14....this season is shaping up the same right now.

Roger · August 26, 2017

Luck's status made the Draw Play comic.

www.thedrawplay.com/

jbaron04 · August 27, 2017

12 hours ago, TheOptimist88 said:

Luck not starting week 1 or 2 is not going to derail our season. At worst we go 0-2 and we've been there before with Luck. The defense just didn't cut us any breaks last year. We lost 3 games we should've won last year and the defense didn't hold. An upgraded rushing attack and a turnover happy defense will make us a lot better.

We go 0-2 every year so nth gonna be different

SilentHill · August 27, 2017

15 hours ago, Superman said:

You want congressional level disclosure, and I understand why, but there's no benefit to the player, the team, or the league, so it's not a change that's likely to happen.

Why do you think there is no benefit to the league? Happy fans happy league?

SilentHill · August 27, 2017

16 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

Just wondering, how many times, how many ways do they have to tell you?

Just wondering, are you always a neddy or just on Saturdays?

I obviously know that no one here has insider info. This is a FAN FORUM where we discuss such topics. I'm glad though that I could turn this into a teaching moment for you.

Superman · August 27, 2017

4 hours ago, SilentHill said:

Why do you think there is no benefit to the league? Happy fans happy league?

Because no fans stop consuming the product due to injury reporting, or lack thereof. The primary reason the NFL mandates injury reporting is to reduce the potential influence of the gambling industry, not to make the fans happy.

SilentHill · August 28, 2017

21 hours ago, Superman said:

Because no fans stop consuming the product due to injury reporting, or lack thereof. The primary reason the NFL mandates injury reporting is to reduce the potential influence of the gambling industry, not to make the fans happy.

If that were the reason, then why wouldn't they want full disclosure? It would make more sense for gambling reasons to have full disclosure.

ColtsBlueFL · August 28, 2017

3 hours ago, SilentHill said:

If that were the reason, then why wouldn't they want full disclosure? It would make more sense for gambling reasons to have full disclosure.

There are no rules for injury in the off season. None. After September 2, all teams have to disclose player availability. If not, then they have to report the injured part ( like right knee, not just leg) and player status for that day. Here is the official NFL position on injury reporting-

http://operations.nfl.com/media/2235/06-07-16-2016-injury-report-policy.pdf

SilentHill · August 28, 2017

51 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

There are no rules for injury in the off season. None. After September 2, all teams have to disclose player availability. If not, then they have to report the injured part ( like right knee, not just leg) and player status for that day. Here is the official NFL position on injury reporting-

http://operations.nfl.com/media/2235/06-07-16-2016-injury-report-policy.pdf

I know the policy, this whole conversation is because I said the NFL should push for a different policy, with more disclosure during the next CBA.

Superman · August 28, 2017

4 hours ago, SilentHill said:

If that were the reason, then why wouldn't they want full disclosure? It would make more sense for gambling reasons to have full disclosure.

4 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

I know the policy, this whole conversation is because I said the NFL should push for a different policy, with more disclosure during the next CBA.

Do you know anyone who bets preseason NFL games?

People place bets on the season way in advance, but week to week injuries and unclear early season recovery time frames don't really influence those bets. And the Colts aren't going to take a bribe to keep Luck out for Week 1 to help some bookie make money on the under for the season.

So what's the advantage to the league, the team or the player to give full disclosure in mid to late August? I don't think there is any. Even if there is, how does it compare to the real issues that will be sticking points in the next CBA -- revenue split, preseason games, expanding the schedule, player discipline/commissioner authority, etc.?

This is only important to you because this year, you want to know when Luck is going to be ready to play. You don't care about Joe Flacco, Tyrod Taylor, Jordan Matthews, Demaryius Thomas, Leonard Fournette, etc. Do you think this moves the needle for the NFLPA?

BR-549 · August 28, 2017

JMV pretty adamant Luck will miss the first two games. Even claims that is what he was told as worst case scenario, but for us to look for him back in week three against the Browns. We usually go 0-2 anyway.

In contrast, if you care, (and I don't) Colin Cowherd said today he thinks we possibly will never see Luck again. That he thinks there is more going on than what we are being told and that it (shoulder injury) is way more serious than previously thought..... I call bull-ronie. :thmdown:

SilentHill · August 28, 2017

2 hours ago, Superman said:

Do you know anyone who bets preseason NFL games?

People place bets on the season way in advance, but week to week injuries and unclear early season recovery time frames don't really influence those bets. And the Colts aren't going to take a bribe to keep Luck out for Week 1 to help some bookie make money on the under for the season.

So what's the advantage to the league, the team or the player to give full disclosure in mid to late August? I don't think there is any. Even if there is, how does it compare to the real issues that will be sticking points in the next CBA -- revenue split, preseason games, expanding the schedule, player discipline/commissioner authority, etc.?

This is only important to you because this year, you want to know when Luck is going to be ready to play. You don't care about Joe Flacco, Tyrod Taylor, Jordan Matthews, Demaryius Thomas, Leonard Fournette, etc. Do you think this moves the needle for the NFLPA?

Let's forget Luck and move back to Manning circa preseason 2011.

I'm a gambler who just used a bribe to get some amazing inside information about Manning and his Injury and the reality that he was going to miss the 2011 season.

I just made a boatload of cash betting against the Colts before the season even begins.

There is your reason for full disclosure on injuries.

Sure I only care about Luck, but the logic is there. I'd strongly consider this if I were the NFL, but that's not my call.

The Fish · August 28, 2017

1 hour ago, BR-549 said:

JMV pretty adamant Luck will miss the first two games. Even claims that is what he was told as worst case scenario, but for us to look for him back in week three against the Browns. We usually go 0-2 anyway.

In contrast, if you care, (and I don't) Colin Cowherd said today he thinks we possibly will never see Luck again. That he thinks there is more going on than what we are being told and that it (shoulder injury) is way more serious than previously thought..... I call bull-ronie.

He's not the only one saying that. BTW Cowherd is gawd awful.

Superman · August 28, 2017

2 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

Let's forget Luck and move back to Manning circa preseason 2011.

I'm a gambler who just used a bribe to get some amazing inside information about Manning and his Injury and the reality that he was going to miss the 2011 season.

I just made a boatload of cash betting against the Colts before the season even begins.

There is your reason for full disclosure on injuries.

Sure I only care about Luck, but the logic is there. I'd strongly consider this if I were the NFL, but that's not my call.

No one knew Manning would not be ready until he had a setback just prior to the regular season, and he underwent another, more intrusive operation. When that happened, it was reported right away.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/peyton-manning-on-his-neck-surgeries-rehab--and-how-he-almost-didnt-make-it-back/2013/10/21/8e3b5ca6-3a55-11e3-b7ba-503fb5822c3e_story.html?utm_term=.3b92626e815b

That September, the disc re-herniated yet again. This time, Manning sought a permanent solution: a fusion to stabilize the neck. It would be his fourth surgery in two years.

Please show me where any team knew a player wouldn't be able to play, but withheld that information.

SilentHill · August 28, 2017

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

No one knew Manning would not be ready until he had a setback just prior to the regular season, and he underwent another, more intrusive operation. When that happened, it was reported right away.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/peyton-manning-on-his-neck-surgeries-rehab--and-how-he-almost-didnt-make-it-back/2013/10/21/8e3b5ca6-3a55-11e3-b7ba-503fb5822c3e_story.html?utm_term=.3b92626e815b

That September, the disc re-herniated yet again. This time, Manning sought a permanent solution: a fusion to stabilize the neck. It would be his fourth surgery in two years.

Please show me where any team knew a player wouldn't be able to play, but withheld that information.

That September he had another surgery but that was NEVER reported to anyone that September. I remember being on here and the consensus was that Manning would only miss a game or two, then it turned to 3 and then 4 and 5 because they never placed him on IR.

Reading that article it's hard to imagine why the Colts didn't place manning on IR right away. Maybe they were saving him for a potential playoff run? Who knows, but it was evident even in the next off-season that he wasn't fully back to himself.

The Fish · August 28, 2017

6 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

That September he had another surgery but that was NEVER reported to anyone that September. I remember being on here and the consensus was that Manning would only miss a game or two, then it turned to 3 and then 4 and 5 because they never placed him on IR.

Reading that article it's hard to imagine why the Colts didn't place manning on IR right away. Maybe they were saving him for a potential playoff run? Who knows, but it was evident even in the next off-season that he wasn't fully back to himself.

He wanted to come back?

Recall that he was throwing again towards the end of the season and he was lobbying to take control of the offense in the red zone..

Weird times.

deedub75 · August 28, 2017

Even with him playing doesn't mean they will win those games. It took weeks before Peyton looked like Peyton in 2008 and he didn't have a shoulder issue. It would be easier to come back and play well if it were not the throwing shoulder.

Superman · August 28, 2017

Just now, SilentHill said:

That September he had another surgery but that was NEVER reported to anyone. I remember being on here and the consensus was that Manning would only miss a game or two, then it turned to 3 and then 4 and 5 because they never placed him on IR.

Reading that article it's hard to imagine why the Colts didn't place manning on IR right away. Maybe they were saving him for a potential playoff run? Who knows, but it was evident even in the next off-season that he wasn't fully back to himself.

You remember incorrectly. Take a minute to read the article I linked to. It's all laid out there. He had a decompression operation to repair a herniated disc in May, then had a similar operation a couple weeks later (which wasn't reported by anyone, but the players were locked out). He rehabbed all summer, hoping his arm would come back, but progress was slow. Then in September, the disc herniated again, and that's when he had the cervical fusion.

Up to that point, they were hoping he'd be ready to play. They even activated him from the PUP list prior to fusion operation, which made no sense if they knew he wouldn't play, because it cost them the ability to keep Manning off the active roster and maintain that extra roster spot for an additional 9 weeks into the season.

There was no prior knowledge that he would not be able to play. The suggestion that the team hid this from everyone is absolutely false.

They didn't IR him because they were hopeful (in denial, maybe?) that he'd be able to play at the end of the season, if the situation called for it.

Superman · August 28, 2017

3 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

Even with him playing doesn't mean they will win those games. It took weeks before Peyton looked like Peyton in 2008 and he didn't have a shoulder issue. It would be easier to come back and play well if it were not the throwing shoulder.

People are turning this into a huge conspiracy. He had surgery on his throwing shoulder after playing 20 games with the shoulder at less than 100%. He's rehabbing and recovering. I don't understand why it's so hard to grasp.

The Fish · August 28, 2017

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

You remember incorrectly. Take a minute to read the article I linked to. It's all laid out there. He had a decompression operation to repair a herniated disc in May, then had a similar operation a couple weeks later (which wasn't reported by anyone, but the players were locked out). He rehabbed all summer, hoping his arm would come back, but progress was slow. Then in September, the disc herniated again, and that's when he had the cervical fusion.

Up to that point, they were hoping he'd be ready to play. They even activated him from the PUP list prior to fusion operation, which made no sense if they knew he wouldn't play, because it cost them the ability to keep Manning off the active roster and maintain that extra roster spot for an additional 9 weeks into the season.

There was no prior knowledge that he would not be able to play. The suggestion that the team hid this from everyone is absolutely false.

They didn't IR him because they were hopeful (in denial, maybe?) that he'd be able to play at the end of the season, if the situation called for it.

And this is why, among other reasons that were observable from watching the games, that "Suck For Luck" or tanking didn't happen based on some kind of master plan from Irsay on down..

I'll fess to being annoyed by that claim to this day..

Roger · August 28, 2017

So what is the impetus for the Cowherd et al rumors? Why would someone say such an unthinkable thing without some reason? He's not worried about losing listeners?

Superman · August 28, 2017

6 minutes ago, Roger said:

So what is the impetus for the Cowherd et al rumors? Why would someone say such an unthinkable thing without some reason? He's not worried about losing listeners?

He says stuff like that to gain/retain listeners. It's sensational, which gets people talking, which is what he wants. Cowherd pushes the envelope and plays devil's advocate specifically to move the needle, not because it makes logical sense or he believes what he's saying. Half of the things he says should be dismissed out of hand.

Boiler_Colt · August 28, 2017

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

He says stuff like that to gain/retain listeners. It's sensational, which gets people talking, which is what he wants. Cowherd pushes the envelope and plays devil's advocate specifically to move the needle, not because it makes logical sense or he believes what he's saying. Half of the things he says should be dismissed out of hand.

Exactly, these national guys do zero fact checking with local media guys that have been telling us for weeks that Luck might miss the first few games. It's like they simply cannot comprehend anything beyond a doomsday scenario when they aren't getting direct info. They try to put 2 and 2 together and more often than not they fail to come up with anything but a hot take. It's the information age we live in, sadly. You don't have to have facts to have a take. Plus the National media hates Irsay so they think the worst with the Colts at all times.

TheOptimist88 · August 28, 2017

So what is the impetus for the Cowherd et al rumors? Why would someone say such an unthinkable thing without some reason? He's not worried about losing listeners?

That's literally what he does all day is * people off [emoji23][emoji23]

*

deedub75 · August 29, 2017

2 hours ago, The Fish said:

And this is why, among other reasons that were observable from watching the games, that "Suck For Luck" or tanking didn't happen based on some kind of master plan from Irsay on down..

I'll fess to being annoyed by that claim to this day..

They almost didn't suck enough for Luck.

Roger · August 29, 2017

2 hours ago, Superman said:

He says stuff like that to gain/retain listeners. It's sensational, which gets people talking, which is what he wants. Cowherd pushes the envelope and plays devil's advocate specifically to move the needle, not because it makes logical sense or he believes what he's saying. Half of the things he says should be dismissed out of hand.

Cowherd has appeared to be a big Luck booster. I remember a piece he did just before the AFCC. He said Luck would dominate the league for ten years and that he would never be on a worse Colts team than the team in January 2015. He also objected to Luck being ranked 51, after Mariota, in the player's top 100.

He may be recklessly bloviating, but why pick this topic to be reckless with?

ColtsBlueFL · August 29, 2017

2 hours ago, Superman said:

People are turning this into a huge conspiracy. He had surgery on his throwing shoulder after playing 20 games with the shoulder at less than 100%. He's rehabbing and recovering. I don't understand why it's so hard to grasp.

Exactly. Just what info does he want for the 'full disclosure' in the off season? It can't be anything illegal (HIPAA violation) though.

The timetable is when he successfully completes all physical therapy exercises without pain, discomfort, or re-aggravation or re-injury. It is different for everybody, dependent upon many things. Degree of injury, complexity of repair, healing speed of the individual, the skill of rehab therapists, the dedication of the player to following the rehab protocol, etc... No one can answer becasue no one knows.. but the physician and PT/Trainers know if he is on schedule or encountered some setbacks on the road to recovery, etc.. Their job is to heal to patient (Luck), not blab status to the media/public; even if it weren't illegal to do so.

When the season starts, the injury report will say shoulder. nothing more. and include his participation status-

DNP

Limited

Full

each day as soon as possible after practice, (and their opponents practice ends). I do not see the NFL or NFLPA wanting or needing for transparency beyond that, without opening another can of worms.

The Fish · August 29, 2017

34 minutes ago, Roger said:

Cowherd has appeared to be a big Luck booster. I remember a piece he did just before the AFCC. He said Luck would dominate the league for ten years and that he would never be on a worse Colts team than the team in January 2015. He also objected to Luck being ranked 51, after Mariota, in the player's top 100.

He may be recklessly bloviating, but why pick this topic to be reckless with?

He is.

It's a simple "see I told ya so" gamble. No one will remember that he ran his mouth about this, among a fresh daily pile of "hot takes" to go through if he's wrong. If he's right then he can be the "see I told ya so" guy.

Superman · August 29, 2017

7 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Exactly. Just what info does he want for the 'full disclosure' in the off season? It can't be anything illegal (HIPAA violation) though.

The timetable is when he successfully completes all physical therapy exercises without pain, discomfort, or re-aggravation or re-injury. It is different for everybody, dependent upon many things. Degree of injury, complexity of repair, healing speed of the individual, the skill of rehab therapists, the dedication of the player to following the rehab protocol, etc... No one can answer becasue no one knows.. but the physician and PT/Trainers know if he is on schedule or encountered some setbacks on the road to recovery, etc.. Their job is to heal to patient (Luck), not blab status to the media/public; even if it weren't illegal to do so.

When the season starts, the injury report will say shoulder. nothing more. and include his participation status-

DNP

Limited

Full

each day as soon as possible after practice, (and their opponents practice ends). I do not see the NFL or NFLPA wanting or needing for transparency beyond that, without opening another can of worms.

BloodyChamp · August 29, 2017

On 8/24/2017 at 11:05 AM, Malakai432 said:

I have some insight to Silent's question and that is that.....

Just my valuable input.

Can I get a participation trophy at least?? Just don't tell my Dad, James Harrison.

BloodyChamp · August 29, 2017

I don't know

Edited August 29, 2017 by BloodyChamp
I don't know

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