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The Chuck Pagano you've been asking for?


NewColtsFan

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26 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

He coaches like him. his clock management is about the same.

 

  I believe one could go back over posts from the last 5 years and see a few thousand concerns

 about Chuck`s team not looking prepared, ready to go early in our games.

  Sort of a trend. We didn`t hire him in his 30`s.

  I have to believe Chuck`s ___ is on the line and he better be very demanding.

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4 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  I believe one could go back over posts from the last 5 years and see a few thousand concerns

 about Chuck`s team not looking prepared, ready to go early in our games.

  Sort of a trend. We didn`t hire him in his 30`s.

  I have to believe Chuck`s ___ is on the line and he better be very demanding.

I hope so so tired of seeing him weasel his was out of being fired guy sucks his dumb decisions and brain farts are annoying as hell

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13 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I want to answer this question in a couple of ways as well. I don't think that we necessarily expect the new coach (if there is one), to be better than Pagano right away. For me, at least, I'm willing to take the chance that the next coach will be better than Pagano at some point down the road, and if he's worse, then we get better draft picks and can try again in a couple years. The problem with Pagano is that he's mediocre. We never got the proper high draft picks to build around Luck, and now it's affecting us poorly.

 

The problem with this approach is that it's the blueprint of a loosing franchise. Just check the most successfull franchises of the last 1-2 decades. The Steelers, the Patriots, the Packers, the Giants, the Ravens, the Eagles (under Reid), etc. And recently the Hawks, etc. The one common thing is that all have longetivity in addition to quality. Look at even the Cowboys. Did you know, that Jason Garrett has been in Dallas actually 2 years longer than Pagano in Indy? Not to mention Marvin Lewis, who's been in CIncy for 14 years. (Yes, even Cincy. Yep, they suck in the playoffs, still, they are the 5th or sthg. winninges franchise of the last decade. And still, they did better than 20+ franchises.)

 

So, while, obviously, a bad / incapable coach must be fired, but only if a) you absolutely make sure that the guy sucks, there is no hope with him, b) you even more positive that the new guys is THE guy. Not someone, who "he'll be worse, we get better draft pick and try again". No. That's what loosers do. Winners stick with their coaches. Winners have continuity, winners don't change scheme, phylosophy, system, players every 3-5 years. They just don't.

 

So if Pagano will leave next year, I wan't the new guy be THE guy. Not just someone. I want the guy, who will be around for the remaining of Lucks carreer. Absolutly not someone, who fall in that "if he sucks, we'll at least draft high, and bring someone new in again" category. I don't want that. If that's the approach, then I rather want Pagano to stay. He's way better than the trial and error rollercoaster.

 

13 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Also, I said this a little while back, but I noticed the year that Chuck Pagano left the Ravens to coach the Colts, the Ravens won the SB. Not sure if that's a coincidence, but the Ravens immediately brought home the Lombardi as soon as Pagano left, and the defense was a big reason.

 

You remember the defense because Ed Reed's retirement announcement, but that defense wasn't particularly better than the year before or after. It was the offense which got hot (with Caldwell, which is kinda funny) in the playoffs, not the defense. Manning scored 35 points on them, and Kaepernick scored 31 in the SB. It was Flacco and the vertical passing attack which brought them the Lombardi. Flacco played probably the best 3 games of his carreer in that playoff.

 

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16 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Sure lol that's it!! it's not course you are just a homer or anything 

Me being a homer don't change the history of head coaches in the NFL. If you are going to make a statement be prepared to back it up with facts.

I am waiting.

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3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yes.....    there were whispers about that last year.

 

But there were no such whispers about that in the previous 4 years.

 

If we're going to believe the rumors on one year,   why should not accept that there were no such rumors his first four years?

 

Pagano critics can't have it both ways.     Just because things went south last year,  doesn't mean this was the same problem in the first 4 years.     Remember,  having a frustrating season brings out the worst in people.

 

 

Those rumors come out when winning isn't involved and last season seemed to be the boiling point. 

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8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Me being a homer don't change the history of head coaches in the NFL. If you are going to make a statement be prepared to back it up with facts.

I am waiting.

Here's a lesson for you John Harbaugh and Mike Tomlin and Jim Harbaugh all had either been to or won the super bowl less or the same amount of time as dumb dumb honestly I'm sure there are more coaches if I did more research 

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4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Chuck Pagano isn't Jeff Fisher, he's basically Marvin Lewis and will most likely become what Marvin Lewis has become if he stays with us for a while longer. We'll be just like the Bengals.

And that's supposed to be better the Jeff Fisher? Lol

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Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

That's what I thought lol hell id take Fisher over Lewis hasn't Jeff at least won a damn playoff game lol

I think so on the Titans. That's my fear with Pagano though, we end up like the Bengals. I want Jim Harbaugh next year like you wouldn't believe.

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Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

I think so on the Titans. That's my fear with Pagano though, we end up like the Bengals. I want Jim Harbaugh next year like you wouldn't believe.

Jim.Harbaugh isn't leaving michigan unless he is fired.  That's not gonna happen

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3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I think so on the Titans. That's my fear with Pagano though, we end up like the Bengals. I want Jim Harbaugh next year like you wouldn't believe.

If you look most coaches make it to or win a Superbowl by at least year 5 thats why this wait and be patient with pagano crap is getting old  

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Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

If you look most coaches make it to or win a Superbowl by at least year 5 thats why this wait and be patient with pagano crap is getting old  

Yeah, a decision needs to be made by the end of this year. Give it a year to click or get rid of him. If it clicks, that's cool, if not, he was never getting it anyway even with an improved team and the new coach can take over from the same point.

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2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

If you look most coaches make it to or win a Superbowl by at least year 5 thats why this wait and be patient with pagano crap is getting old  

Most coaches don't make it to,  or win a superbowl.    Change for the sake of change doesn't equal success.    

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Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah, a decision needs to be made by the end of this year. Give it a year to click or get rid of him. If it clicks, that's cool, if not, he was never getting it anyway even with an improved team and the new coach can take over from the same point.

Yep he has had plenty of time to show if he was a good coach or not yet still after 5 years still gets destroyed by great teams and embarrasses himself 

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Just now, jvan1973 said:

No,  last place is the last place you want to be.

How so? Last place you are drafting the top player in the draft or trading and accumulating picks to build a team with. You should know this. You should also know even though we'd be in last, with Luck, we'd never really be a last place team. Last is a great place to be since we found our franchise QB already. 8-8 is the worst spot because we have no elite draft picks to build around Luck, and that has been proven with how quick we started in 2012 on.

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5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

So who do you bring in that is guaranteed to be better?

The only way to get better is to try new people bringing back mediocre coaches just cause you are scared the new guy wont reach chucks mediocre 8-8 record isn't the smart way to run a franchise. If this was chucks 2nd or 3rd year sure give him time and see but he's had * 5 years 

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40 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Here's a lesson for you John Harbaugh and Mike Tomlin and Jim Harbaugh all had either been to or won the super bowl less or the same amount of time as dumb dumb honestly I'm sure there are more coaches if I did more research 

No here is your history lesson. Head coach and how many years for a super bowl win.

Lombarti-3 years

Eubank-15

Stram-10

Cafferty-1- a Shula team

Landry-12

Shula-10

Noll-6

Madden-8

Flores-2 - a Madden team

Walsh-3

Parcells-4

Gibbs-2

Johnson-4

Seifert-1- a Walsh team

Switzer-2- a Johnson team

Holmgren-5

Shanahan-5

Vermeil-10

Billick-2

Belichick-7

Gruden-5- a Dungy team

Cowher-14

Dungy-11

Coughlin-12

Tomlin-2- a Cowher team

Payton-4

MaCarthy-5

Harbaugh-5

Carroll-8

Kubiak-9

There ya go. I hope you learned something.

 

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4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

No here is your history lesson. Head coach and how many years for a super bowl win.

Lombarti-3 years

Eubank-15

Stram-10

Cafferty-1- a Shula team

Landry-12

Shula-10

Noll-6

Madden-8

Flores-2 - a Madden team

Walsh-3

Parcells-4

Gibbs-2

Johnson-4

Seifert-1- a Walsh team

Switzer-2- a Johnson team

Holmgren-5

Shanahan-5

Vermeil-10

Billick-2

Belichick-7

Gruden-5- a Dungy team

Cowher-14

Dungy-11

Coughlin-12

Tomlin-2- a Cowher team

Payton-4

MaCarthy-5

Harbaugh-5

Carroll-8

Kubiak-9

There ya go. I hope you learned something.

 

Over half won in 5 years or less just like I was saying so thanks for probing my point even more 

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53 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Over half won in 5 years or less just like I was saying so thanks for probing my point even more 

I guess you choose to overlook a head coach who walked into a super bowl team. But that's you.

Most all of these coaches are hall of famers but I guess if it were left up to you they would have been fired. The head coach with the most super bowls is Belichick and it took him 7 years.

There have been 30 head coaches to win a super bowl with an average of over 6 years before winning a super bowl.

There were 6 head coaches who took a team over that had just won a super bowl or was super bowl ready.

You have been given the facts but if you choose to ignore them that's on you. You may hand pick the ones to try to make your point but I listed the total facts. You cant argue facts no matter what you think.

I don't care what you think because Pagano's numbers put him in the same class as these hall of famers.

I have no clue if he will ever make a hall of fame head coach but to disregard the facts is not only narrow minded it just being stubborn.

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On 8/15/2017 at 6:21 PM, BR-549 said:

 

Rogers should know better by now and what was he trying to prove by doing that anyway?  Was it the fact that it is PS and nothing to lose?  Wrong answer Chester.

 

Well, I didn't see Chuck greet him but I can only hope that it was unpleasant and a bit embarrassing for Chester.  Those kind of mistakes can be game changers and it was even in that game.  We fought field position forever after that.  Not all his fault as the offense sucked, but his bad decision didn't help and IMO, was inexcusable.  

 

No question Chuck needs to be tougher on players than he has been.  Perhaps Ballard explained that to him and let him know how he would be held accountable for these type of problems .... as they say " boulders run down hill".

 

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17 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think if we draw KC and beat them, that would be a great win as well. Like in 2013. I rank KC as the 4th best team in the AFC behind the Pats, Steelers, and Raiders. After that the rankings are a crapshoot, Texans and Colts both could be rated anywhere from 5-8 in the AFC IMO, depending on how good people think the Ravens, Titans, and Broncos will be. I don't like the direction the Bengals are headed and have never thought Dalton has had the IT factor nor do I think their Coach has the IT factor either. The Broncos have QB issues, they may be an 8-8 team??

I'm with you on this.  Especially with your point on the bengals I'm surprised they still keep Lewis around.

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5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I guess you choose to overlook a head coach who walked into a super bowl team. But that's you.

Most all of these coaches are hall of famers but I guess if it were left up to you they would have been fired. The head coach with the most super bowls is Belichick and it took him 7 years.

There have been 30 head coaches to win a super bowl with an average of over 6 years before winning a super bowl.

There were 6 head coaches who took a team over that had just won a super bowl or was super bowl ready.

You have been given the facts but if you choose to ignore them that's on you. You may hand pick the ones to try to make your point but I listed the total facts. You cant argue facts no matter what you think.

I don't care what you think because Pagano's numbers put him in the same class as these hall of famers.

I have no clue if he will ever make a hall of fame head coach but to disregard the facts is not only narrow minded it just being stubborn.

Yeah I knew you would use the walked into a super bowl team excuse too lol 

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8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I guess you choose to overlook a head coach who walked into a super bowl team. But that's you.

Most all of these coaches are hall of famers but I guess if it were left up to you they would have been fired. The head coach with the most super bowls is Belichick and it took him 7 years.

There have been 30 head coaches to win a super bowl with an average of over 6 years before winning a super bowl.

There were 6 head coaches who took a team over that had just won a super bowl or was super bowl ready.

You have been given the facts but if you choose to ignore them that's on you. You may hand pick the ones to try to make your point but I listed the total facts. You cant argue facts no matter what you think.

I don't care what you think because Pagano's numbers put him in the same class as these hall of famers.

I have no clue if he will ever make a hall of fame head coach but to disregard the facts is not only narrow minded it just being stubborn.

Also the NFL was way more competitive back then it's no where near as difficult now so the most recent SB winners are who he should be compared to the Harbaughs the Paytons the McCarthys the Tomlins all shoelwed they were good before year 6 

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The derailed argument about Pagano has gone beyond discussion of opinions and is leaning more in the direction of poop on a garden tractor wheel that keeps turning and turning while you mow- constant stink.

 

So tired of this whole argument about Chuck.  We have Chuck for the year- period.... he will not be dismissed during the season, it is not Jim's way and it won't happen.  

 

Can we just watch the season play out and evaluate him again at the end of this year?  I get fed up with him too at times, but this nonsense of wanting him fired is so old.... let it go for now.  Welcome to revisit it after the season.

 

It takes all of the coaches working together to get it done and with the personnel we have had on the field in the past few years it would be tough for any coaching staff to produce much more than what we have seen.  The Colts won a lot of games, they were never close to a SB since Luck was drafted.  Sure some coaching modifications and decisions may have resulted in a few more wins, but the roster is what it is and has been and it is not a championship roster. 

 

They are just now starting to undo the roster mistakes and relationship dysfunction that was perpetuated by Ryan Grigson.  It is not going to change over night.  You have to let Jim do the deciding and trust he will make the right decision.  We have CB and I think we all agree that he is doing a good job so far.

 

Guess what, if they waste Luck's career away then that is their decision and right to do so, not ours.  However, I don't think for even a minute that Jim Irsay or any of the others that make decisions about this team want to waste Andrew's career.  They are fully aware of the urgency of building a team before the decline of Andrew Luck starts to set in.

 

If Ballard and Irsay decide at the END of this year that coaching is an issue then they will make a change.  If they think it is worth another year to continue allowing the coaching staff to continue with their philosophy that includes a roster more representative of what Chris Ballard wants then that is what happens..... 

 

I promise you that Jim and Chris want to win as much as any of us do.

 

My God, leave it be.

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9 minutes ago, bradgt04 said:

I'm with you on this.  Especially with your point on the bengals I'm surprised they still keep Lewis around.

Yeah Marvin Lewis has Coached the Bengals for 14 seasons and has no Playoff wins. At least Chuck has 3 and has been in a Championship Game. Imagine if Chuck went 14 seasons without a Playoff win, people in here would go banana's. Some already are over 2 8-8 seasons.

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9 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Also the NFL was way more competitive back then it's no where near as difficult now so the most recent SB winners are who he should be compared to the Harbaughs the Paytons the McCarthys the Tomlins all shoelwed they were good before year 6 

Payton and Tomlin both have won 1 SB but they also have missed the Playoffs several times. Anyone can get lucky once. It took Dungy 11 seasons before he won 1.

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

How so? Last place you are drafting the top player in the draft or trading and accumulating picks to build a team with. You should know this. You should also know even though we'd be in last, with Luck, we'd never really be a last place team. Last is a great place to be since we found our franchise QB already. 8-8 is the worst spot because we have no elite draft picks to build around Luck, and that has been proven with how quick we started in 2012 on.

Tell the jags and Brown's that.     And malik hooker was considered an elite player.  Drafting in the top five guarantees nothing

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1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

The only way to get better is to try new people bringing back mediocre coaches just cause you are scared the new guy wont reach chucks mediocre 8-8 record isn't the smart way to run a franchise. If this was chucks 2nd or 3rd year sure give him time and see but he's had * 5 years 

If luck is healthy the whole year and we don't make a run in the playoffs ,  I'm guessing he will be gone.  But unlike you,  I'm not hoping for it

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