Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

Premature roster projection


Superman

Recommended Posts

 

See my thing is I have a big problems with justification by comparison. Saying "Well Collins was bad his first year too but improved his 2nd year" is an old argument and moot point. The same excuse was made for Dorsett with Reggie Wayne being used as the exception.

 

The difference is Collins was a legitimate safety prospect who was good in college and gave you reason to believe he had upside. All of Green's upside was purely based on his measureables (much like Stephen Hill). He's an Al Davis kind of guy. Big and fast but can't play. Wasn't worth a 2nd. Nothing wrong with betting on potential but you can at least play the position.

 

If the reason to think Green will improve is because Landon Collins did and not because of his own skill set, then he's a bust

 

 

*

 

Regardless I think Green will make the team on sheer need.  Geathers is hurt.  Hooker is slowly being worked back from injury and is on a pitch count.

 

On top of that TJ Green could excel on special teams, which if he did could secure him a spot.  At least for another year.  

 

Geathers being hurt is THE only reason he'll make the team. But even then he probably won't play much safety. Farley seems way ahead. He'll play a bunch of ST's snaps. But he's already done.

 

 

*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I DO agree with the idea that TJ Green makes this team only if he shows he can excel on special teams. That will be his meal ticket as he works to refine his technique, etc at safety. Or, possibley, CB. The kid has talent; he's just not instinctive. That may kill his NFL career as a starter or he may grow and improve. But in the meantime, he only sticks if he can be a demon on special teams. He will be one of the most interesting bubble guys to watch over the next few weeks. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/1/2017 at 1:26 PM, BPindy said:

Bostic is pretty much guaranteed at this point. He's been with the 1's with Morrison consistently  

Bostic is not dynamic. He is average. He is a 68 on Madden and this is his fourth team in 4 years, I hope he can break through but I do not feel good about him as a starter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Hoose said:

I DO agree with the idea that TJ Green makes this team only if he shows he can excel on special teams. That will be his meal ticket as he works to refine his technique, etc at safety. Or, possibley, CB. The kid has talent; he's just not instinctive. That may kill his NFL career as a starter or he may grow and improve. But in the meantime, he only sticks if he can be a demon on special teams. He will be one of the most interesting bubble guys to watch over the next few weeks. 

Bubble will be popping shortly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I DO agree with the idea that TJ Green makes this team only if he shows he can excel on special teams. That will be his meal ticket as he works to refine his technique, etc at safety. Or, possibley, CB. The kid has talent; he's just not instinctive. That may kill his NFL career as a starter or he may grow and improve. But in the meantime, he only sticks if he can be a demon on special teams. He will be one of the most interesting bubble guys to watch over the next few weeks. 

 

Nothing wrong with optimism. I just see it differently. TJ Green is an athlete. Can't call him a football player though. I'm not sure he's talented at any one thing. He was a great athlete but didn't have the chops to play WR. I think Clemson moved him to safety because it's the only other position that would make sense for someone 6'3", 220 lbs., and 4.3 speed. I don't think it was at all about him showing he had the skill set for it.

 

Very rarely do you see people with crazy athletics who didn't excel at anything in college come into the NFL and just piece it all together. Maybe at TE with basketball players, but not at a position like FS. I wanna be optimistic but I just don't see him turning into anything more than a ST's ace. He can cover kickoffs, be an extra DB on a Hail Mary, and be on punt and FG units. That's about it.

 

 

*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/31/2017 at 9:13 PM, Superman said:

So this is super early, way premature, and isn't particularly informed as I haven't set eyes on the team, and they haven't even put on pads yet (tomorrow, finally). But I like to shoot out projections and then see how far off I was when the cutdown comes. This is loosely based on depth chart order, but once we're past the top guys at positions the order isn't really important.

 

Starter

Roster lock

Bubble

 

QB: Luck, Tolzien, Morris, Walker (I think we wind up keeping all three at cutdown, as I'm not sure Luck will be ready and I think he'll still be limited in practice this season; Walker doesn't make it, and no need for a PS QB if you carry 3 on the full roster)

RB: Gore, Turbin, Mack, Ferguson, Pope, Crossan (Ferguson did a good job on STs last year, but he has to show something on offense to make the roster)

WR: Hilton, Moncrief, Dorsett, Rogers, Aiken, Bray, Smith, Howard, Binford, Briggs, Brown, Natson (Aiken is a lock because they gave him a $1m signing bonus and a $500K salary guarantee, which isn't how I usually look at roster decisions, but that's a pretty strong indication he's sticking around; Dorsett isn't going to be cut because he also has guaranteed money on his deal, and he still has a lot of upside, but a nice trade offer could pry him from the team; Bray would need to be a standout STer)

TE: Doyle, Swoope, Krieger-Coble, Alie-Cox, Daniels, Williams (I know little about anyone outside of the top two, but Alie-Cox seems like a PS guy as he transitions to football, and Krieger-Coble is an interesting waiver claim that had some pretty good production at Iowa, a program known for producing NFL TEs)

OL: AC, Mewhort, Kelly, Haeg, Clark, Good, Banner, Schwenke, Cooper, Muir, Ugokwe, Vujnovich, Wylie, Bond, Redmond (I think the top 7 are locks, based on ending 2016 status and draft status (that doesn't mean Good or Banner can just show up and be guaranteed a spot, Ballard comes from a team that cut a 3rd round pick last year; Schwenke is on the bubble because he's still on PUP, but I think he has a good chance to make the roster based on his versatility inside, and the rest of the guys will duke it out for the last 1-2 spots, with position flexibility being a major factor)

 

The defense is where it really gets interesting, and I admit, I'm guessing on about half of these. 

DL: Anderson, Hankins, Ridgeway, Langford, Stewart, Woods, Parry, McGill, Hunt, Boyd (this is an interesting group, Woods will need to be a standout run stopper to make the final roster, and any uncertainty with Langford or rookie blues with Stewart helps him; I think Parry is one of the least talented DL on the roster so I expect him to be gone, but if his shows some burst and scrappiness he might stick around, McGill has some traits but I think ultimately gets outplayed, and I'm not impressed by Hunt in the least, but if he does something on ST he might force his way onto the final roster)

OLB: Sheard, Simon, Basham, Ayers, Edwards, Mingo, J. Thomas, Mount, Sickels (I think Ayers makes it, but he's not a lock; outside of the top four, who knows? Mingo has some inside/out versatility, and seemed to put some hustle on display on Sunday; also I listed Thomas as an OLB but they have him as DE, I don't know)

ILB: Jackson, Morrison, Spence, Walker, Bostic, Rhodes, George (LOL, I have no read on this position at this point; I want to make Jackson and Morrison locks, but they're mediocre holdovers from the previous regime, and everyone else is a one year pickup, outside of Walker who is a late 5th rounder (but I made him a lock because I think they really like him); they are throwing these guys on the field and looking for someone to separate themselves, and I don't think they have any real opinions before a few padded practices happen)

CB: Davis, Wilson, Hairston, Melvin, Milton, Mitchel, Morris, Blackmon (I'm not impressed with anyone outside of the top 3, I'm not a Melvin fan at all, but the others haven't earned my ire yet; another position with lots of competition, and even though Wilson and Hairston will be on the roster, they haven't locked down their spots in the rotation at all, they could be STers early, leaving playing time for other guys)

S: Butler, Hooker, Green, Farley, Graham Jr, Powell, Hightower, Williamson (plenty of comp here also, Farley seemed to be ahead of Green throughout the offseason, Green has no guaranteed money left and is a project holdover from the previous regime, and didn't have a good rookie year; I think the other guys are JAGs, but they should get plenty of reps with Hooker on a pitch count, Butler being solidified, and Geathers on PUP, so someone could make a mark, and I think they'll want five guys to start anyways, so anyone doing well on ST coverage will get a good look)

 

K: Vinatieri (duh)

P: Locke, Sanchez (it's Locke's job, I think Sanchez was kickoff insurance, but early word is Locke is doing fine)

LS: Hennessy (no one else on the roster, but if he has any trouble, they'll find someone else; they cut Overton, so they must be confident in Hennessy)

 

PUP (will not count against the 53): Geathers (already confirmed; I thought about Langford and Schwenke, but Ballard said he expects them both to be ready for the start of the season; they won't leave Luck on PUP unless there's a significant setback before he's activated)

 

Take away the STs spots, which are mostly locked down. I have 33 locks for the active roster, 19 on offense, 14 on defense. Sadly, some will be lost to IR at some point before the season, opening up roster spots; let's just hope it's no one mission critical. As of right now, that leaves 17 spots available for 53 players to fight over. Ballard wanted competition, this is the Hunger Games. And he is by no means done churning the roster, several players here today won't be here after the first couple preseason games. And I wouldn't be surprised if pulls off a trade for a rotation player or even starter at corner or ILB (they showed interest in Zach Orr already). 

 

It's gonna be fun...

Very nice hunger games comparison lol :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/4/2017 at 2:16 PM, Defjamz26 said:

 

Geathers being hurt is THE only reason he'll make the team. But even then he probably won't play much safety. Farley seems way ahead. He'll play a bunch of ST's snaps. But he's already done.

 

 

*

I don't think Green is a lock to make the roster. He needs to show in the preseason games IMO. Hooker and Butler are clearly ahead of him and I think Farley is too. . Reports are the coach's like Powell and his versatility too. 

 

As far as big physical "strong safety's". We have a couple of guys that are 6'1 210+ pounds that may be may be more capable of giving us the pop we will miss from Geathers. Williamson an UDFA that spent last year on the IR and Gibson is an UDFA this season . 

 

Gibson is a kid I really like i think he makes the PS at least. He played the LB/S hybrid for South Dakota last year  

 

I'd love to see Green pan out. I don't want to see another high pick bust. That being said I agree with your assessment of him and wouldn't be shocked if he was cut. He's not making the roster because he's fast. 

 

The D is going to be fun to watch this preseason. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. A guy I think surprise in each position group Stewart Ayers Rhodes Milton and Gibson.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, akcolt said:

I don't think Green is a lock to make the roster. He needs to show in the preseason games IMO. Hooker and Butler are clearly ahead of him and I think Farley is too. . Reports are the coach's like Powell and his versatility too. 

 

As far as big physical "strong safety's". We have a couple of guys that are 6'1 210+ pounds that may be may be more capable of giving us the pop we will miss from Geathers. Williamson an UDFA that spent last year on the IR and Gibson is an UDFA this season . 

 

Gibson is a kid I really like i think he makes the PS at least. He played the LB/S hybrid for South Dakota last year  

 

I'd love to see Green pan out. I don't want to see another high pick bust. That being said I agree with your assessment of him and wouldn't be shocked if he was cut. He's not making the roster because he's fast. 

 

The D is going to be fun to watch this preseason. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. A guy I think surprise in each position group Stewart Ayers Rhodes Milton and Gibson.

 

You may be right,  but remember.....

 

We'll likely keep 5 safeties....     so unless Green looks completely lost out there,  it's likely he makes the roster if for no other reason than his athletic skills can help on speical teams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/4/2017 at 8:36 PM, Defjamz26 said:

 

Nothing wrong with optimism. I just see it differently. TJ Green is an athlete. Can't call him a football player though. I'm not sure he's talented at any one thing. He was a great athlete but didn't have the chops to play WR. I think Clemson moved him to safety because it's the only other position that would make sense for someone 6'3", 220 lbs., and 4.3 speed. I don't think it was at all about him showing he had the skill set for it.

 

Very rarely do you see people with crazy athletics who didn't excel at anything in college come into the NFL and just piece it all together. Maybe at TE with basketball players, but not at a position like FS. I wanna be optimistic but  I just don't see him turning into anything more than a ST's ace. He can cover kickoffs, be an extra DB on a Hail Mary, and be on punt and FG units. That's about it.

 

 

*

 

  Def, this kid has a brain and is said to be a hard worker.

  Yes, a 53 man roster needs all hands ready and able to be the next man up. He had little position experience.

  But he will be coached up. Chuck the Guru (lol) and his staff should be able to turn him into

 a solid DB by the middle of his 3rd year.  And with game experience his ceiling can be quite high.

 He did look lost when he got his back turned last season. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Update after the preseason, this is my final 53 and practice squad:

 

QB: Luck, Tolzien, Morris, Walker (Walker was pretty bad throughout, I would only keep him on PS because he can scramble and we play Wilson, Mariota twice, potentially Watson twice, and Tyrod Taylor)

RB: Gore, Turbin, Mack, Ferguson, Pope, Crossan, Llorans, Richardson,  (I like Pope, but the roster math doesn't work, and Turbin's protection is needed with Mack not being a good pass blocker yet)

WR: Hilton, Moncrief, Dorsett, Aiken, Natson, Howard, Rogers, Bray, Bracy, Liggins, Riley, Showers, Smith, Howard, Binford, Briggs, Brown (I'm keeping Aiken even though he didn't do much, I think they have a role carved out for him, but Howard could take his place; getting rid of Bray and Rogers because Natson outplayed them both and can return)

TE: Doyle, Swoope, Krieger-Coble, Williams, Alie-Cox, Daniels (Alie-Cox never got on the field before being IR'd and dismissed, Daniels looked okay, HKC was better, and Williams has blocking ability to replace Allen on the edge; Swoope still recovering, but they'll give him a chance to recover because he has downfield ability that no one else has on the roster)

OL: AC, Mewhort, Kelly, Haeg, Clark, Good, Banner, Schwenke, Bond, Vujnovic, Cooper, Muir, Ugokwe, Wylie, Redmond, Uzdavinis, Vaughn, (I'm disappointed in this group, don't think Haeg, Clark or Good had good preseasons, and no one else outside of Bond really solidified themselves; I don't think they'll give up on the young guys, but they have to make room for Bond, and with Kelly's injury they'll probably want to keep 10)

 

DL: Anderson, Hankins, Woods, Hunt, Stewart, McGill, J. Thomas, Ridgeway, Langford, Parry, Boyd  (I said Hunt had to make an impact on STs, and he did that and more; I said Woods had to be good agains the run, and he was only decent, but better than everyone else in the middle, and I want to keep Thomas who was strong in the last game, but can't do 7; also cutting Ridgeway because he was invisible)

OLB: Sheard, Simon, Basham, Ayers, Mingo, Edwards, Mount, Sickels (I think Ayers makes it, but he's not a lock; outside of the top four, who knows? Mingo has some inside/out versatility, and seemed to put some hustle on display on Sunday; also I listed Thomas as an OLB but they have him as DE, I don't know)

ILB: Jackson, Morrison, Walker, Bostic, George, Spence, Sankey (seriously no idea here; I think Spence could lose his spot to George, who played really well and was all over the place tonight, and I don't think they'll keep 6 ILBs)

CB: Davis, Wilson, Hairston, Culliver, Milton, White, Melvin, Mitchel, Morris, Blackmon (this is difficult because of injuries to Davis and Culliver, and Wilson has been up and down all offseason; didn't want to cut White, Milton earned it IMO, and then Green is supplemental for this group)

S: Butler, Hooker, Green, Farley, Graham Jr, Powell, Hightower, Williamson, Wolff, Martin (scary because Hooker has injury concerns, but Farley showed starting ability on a short term basis, and Green will still be used here also)

 

K: Vinatieri (duh)

P: Locke, Sanchez (good for Rigoberto, and he did a pretty good job tonight against the Bengals, including angle/boundary kicks, and deep kickoffs)

LS: Hennessy, Rhodes (and good for Rhodes; I wonder if his spot was won because of punt/kickoff coverage)

 

PUP (will not count against the 53): Geathers (Luck will be activated Saturday)

 

Practice squad: Pope, Howard, Brown, Wiley, Redmond, J. Thomas, Sickels, Graham, Blackmon, Martin.

 

That's my projection, based on who's on the roster now. In reality, there will be new players brought in, probably a trade or two, and then I'm just wrong on a bunch oft these, I'm sure. Disappointed in Ridgeway, didn't want to cut Pope, and really concerned about the OL and the cornerback group. I see us carrying three QBs all season, which isn't the best way to use a roster spot but when your #1 guy is battling back from surgery, you gotta make it work.

 

Saturday is gonna be crazy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, jimmy g said:

Saw parts of the game with no sound.  Only consistent thing I saw on every play was- Clark getting beaten like a drum, no matter where they lined him up.

Based solely on his preseason performance he should be cut. However, last year he was abysmal in the preseason but played OK later in the season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As of today and I'm hoping to God this will change but Clark can not block for Luck right now as a starter. Hes giving up too many pressures/sacks. Got to get that stuff together. To be honest Banner has played better ball. Not sure if I'm ready to say Banner should start but the options are kind of iffy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Superman said:

Update after the preseason, this is my final 53 and practice squad:

 

QB: Luck, Tolzien, Morris, Walker (Walker was pretty bad throughout, I would only keep him on PS because he can scramble and we play Wilson, Mariota twice, potentially Watson twice, and Tyrod Taylor)

RB: Gore, Turbin, Mack, Ferguson, Pope, Crossan, Llorans, Richardson,  (I like Pope, but the roster math doesn't work, and Turbin's protection is needed with Mack not being a good pass blocker yet)

WR: Hilton, Moncrief, Dorsett, Aiken, Natson, Howard, Rogers, Bray, Bracy, Liggins, Riley, Showers, Smith, Howard, Binford, Briggs, Brown (I'm keeping Aiken even though he didn't do much, I think they have a role carved out for him, but Howard could take his place; getting rid of Bray and Rogers because Natson outplayed them both and can return)

TE: Doyle, Swoope, Krieger-Coble, Williams, Alie-Cox, Daniels (Alie-Cox never got on the field before being IR'd and dismissed, Daniels looked okay, HKC was better, and Williams has blocking ability to replace Allen on the edge; Swoope still recovering, but they'll give him a chance to recover because he has downfield ability that no one else has on the roster)

OL: AC, Mewhort, Kelly, Haeg, Clark, Good, Banner, Schwenke, Bond, Vujnovic, Cooper, Muir, Ugokwe, Wylie, Redmond, Uzdavinis, Vaughn, (I'm disappointed in this group, don't think Haeg, Clark or Good had good preseasons, and no one else outside of Bond really solidified themselves; I don't think they'll give up on the young guys, but they have to make room for Bond, and with Kelly's injury they'll probably want to keep 10)

 

DL: Anderson, Hankins, Woods, Hunt, Stewart, McGill, J. Thomas, Ridgeway, Langford, Parry, Boyd  (I said Hunt had to make an impact on STs, and he did that and more; I said Woods had to be good agains the run, and he was only decent, but better than everyone else in the middle, and I want to keep Thomas who was strong in the last huh game, but can't do 7; also cutting Ridgeway because he was invisible)

OLB: Sheard, Simon, Basham, Ayers, Mingo, Edwards, Mount, Sickels (I think Ayers makes it, but he's not a lock; outside of the top four, who knows? Mingo has some inside/out versatility, and seemed to put some hustle on display on Sunday; also I listed Thomas as an OLB but they have him as DE, I don't know)

ILB: Jackson, Morrison, Walker, Bostic, George, Spence, Sankey (seriously no idea here; I think Spence could lose his spot to George, who played really well and was all over the place tonight, and I don't think they'll keep 6 ILBs)

CB: Davis, Wilson, Hairston, Culliver, Milton, White, Melvin, Mitchel, Morris, Blackmon (this is difficult because of injuries to Davis and Culliver, and Wilson has been up and down all offseason; didn't want to cut White, Milton earned it IMO, and then Green is supplemental for this group)

S: Butler, Hooker, Green, Farley, Graham Jr, Powell, Hightower, Williamson, Wolff, Martin (scary because Hooker has injury concerns, but Farley showed starting ability on a short term basis, and Green will still be used here also)

 

K: Vinatieri (duh)

P: Locke, Sanchez (good for Rigoberto, and he did a pretty good job tonight against the Bengals, including angle/boundary kicks, and deep kickoffs)

LS: Hennessy, Rhodes (and good for Rhodes; I wonder if his spot was won because of punt/kickoff coverage)

 

PUP (will not count against the 53): Geathers (Luck will be activated Saturday)

 

Practice squad: Pope, Howard, Brown, Wiley, Redmond, J. Thomas, Sickels, Graham, Blackmon, Martin.

 

That's my projection, based on who's on the roster now. In reality, there will be new players brought in, probably a trade or two, and then I'm just wrong on a bunch oft these, I'm sure. Disappointed in Ridgeway, didn't want to cut Pope, and really concerned about the OL and the cornerback group. I see us carrying three QBs all season, which isn't the best way to use a roster spot but when your #1 guy is battling back from surgery, you gotta make it work.

 

Saturday is gonna be crazy.

If Swoope is ready to go do you still keep 4 tight ends. I believe we only kept 3 last year. Keeping 3 tight ends will allow you to keep somebody like White on the team at corner or maybe Ridgeway. I still think Ridgeway has not reached his peak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/4/2017 at 6:05 PM, indyagent17 said:

Bostic is not dynamic. He is average. He is a 68 on Madden and this is his fourth team in 4 years, I hope he can break through but I do not feel good about him as a starter

 

Madden rating?  Really?        

 

60363758.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Clark is so disappointing, to be basically told that the RT position was his to lose, and then for him to lose it by the end of preseason game 1! :wall: 

 

I think we keep Rogers.  Although he is injured Ballard spoke really highly of him when he joined and, by all accounts, he had a great camp before injury.  Dorsett and Moncrieff are not exactly reliable in terms of health and so another playmaking WR in the pool at the expense of a TE?

 

I agree with Supe that I would expect Ballard to make 4/5 other additions from cut players to boost the competition in sore spots for us (CB, ILB) but hard to see where the additional cuts come from in our roster to make that amount of space.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, DaveA1102 said:

Clark is so disappointing, to be basically told that the RT position was his to lose, and then for him to lose it by the end of preseason game 1! :wall: 

 

I think we keep Rogers.  Although he is injured Ballard spoke really highly of him when he joined and, by all accounts, he had a great camp before injury.  Dorsett and Moncrieff are not exactly reliable in terms of health and so another playmaking WR in the pool at the expense of a TE?

 

I agree with Supe that I would expect Ballard to make 4/5 other additions from cut players to boost the competition in sore spots for us (CB, ILB) but hard to see where the additional cuts come from in our roster to make that amount of space.

I'm guessing CB & ILB is where those cuts would come from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DaveA1102 said:

Dorsett and Moncrieff are not exactly reliable in terms of health and so another playmaking WR in the pool at the expense of a TE?

 

I understand the need for insurance at WR, but Rogers hasn't been healthy himself, and isn't really a playmaking WR. If Bug Howard or Fred Brown or Justice Liggin can hit the PS, there's your insurance. Rogers might be practice squad eligible himself. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, krunk said:

If Swoope is ready to go do you still keep 4 tight ends. I believe we only kept 3 last year. Keeping 3 tight ends will allow you to keep somebody like White on the team at corner or maybe Ridgeway. I still think Ridgeway has not reached his peak.

 

I'm assuming he's not ready. Even if he is, how limited will he be, particularly on STs coverage? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...