Who ends up the greatest statistical qb of all time?

[dgambill]

The countdown is on and it seems all but a certainty that when Peyton Manning is announced into the Hall of Fame he will not hold the record for the most TDs or Most Passing Yards of all time. With Drew Brees just 74 Tds and 5829 yds behind Manning and Tom Brady only slightly further behind at 83 Tds and 10,358 yds the two most significant records of Peyton's career will likely be broken before he takes the stage in Canton. So my question is who do you believe will hold those records by the time all three are retired and how long do you think these records last. Peyton owns a lot of significant records but like any good record...they are meant to be broken. Do you think the NFL will celebrate it like they did Peyton's breaking them and will this change Peyton's legacy any when and if most of his records are broken.

[shakedownstreet]

Manning was twice the QB Brady or Brees are. All you need is the eye test

[chad72]

Peyton's legacy has never been about those stats. Maybe, by losing his claim to those stats, it will satisfy the naysayers more than anyone else who have been hung up on the fact that his career is defined by his stats. 

 

All those years of Polian and Dungy resting him at the end of games in a blowout and/or the end of the seasons (including bailing on a perfect season) instead of padding up stats, whether we agreed with it or not, could have easily been used to pad his stats. 

 

It is basically showing and paving the way for more cerebral QBs down the road, IMO. Even now, QBs with all the talent, still don't get on the same level as a Brady or Rodgers because the cerebral aspect is yet to be mastered. Physically, I do not think Peyton had a gun of an arm or Rodgers' movement outside the pocket but his brain helped him overcome a lot of that. Volume stats are bound to be broken, it is just a matter of time, and they matter only if your legacy was about those volume stats, which I don't think has been the case with Peyton.

 

55 TDs with a half to go in 2013, 49 TDs with a game to go in 2004, I don't think I need to say more whether Peyton was about stats or not. He definitely was not.

 

It might be Brady in a few years but another 20 years later, you may not be able to sneeze on a QB and we might see 6000 yards of passing in a year, who knows!!! 

[Synthetic]

12 minutes ago, shakedownstreet said:

Manning was twice the QB Brady or Brees are. All you need is the eye test

 

I don't remember Brady or Brees going out with a record NINE one and dones in the first round of the playoffs, many of them with home field advantage. 

 

Brady has accomplished far more than Peyton ever did in the playoffs. That whole argument is pretty much over after the big comeback vs the Falcons this past year. 

 

Brady is the GOAT after this last Super Bowl...

 

 

 

 

[shakedownstreet]

1 minute ago, Synthetic said:

 

I don't remember Brady or Brees going out with a record NINE one and dones in the first round of the playoffs, many of them with home field advantage. 

 

Brady has accomplished far more than Peyton ever did in the playoffs. That whole argument is pretty much over after the big comeback vs the Falcons this past year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Opinions are like... 

 

I have never seen a longtime great team where the QB is as important as Manning was to the Colts. Peyton Manning, not the Colts were MUST SEE TV

 

Sure I'm biased, but I really believe it

[shakedownstreet]

You can argue numbers, stats, championships, blah blah all you like

 

If you've been there, seen that, then you know it when you see it

[Synthetic]

4 minutes ago, shakedownstreet said:

 

Opinions are like... 

 

I have never seen a longtime great team where the QB is as important as Manning was to the Colts. Peyton Manning, not the Colts were MUST SEE TV

 

Sure I'm biased, but I really believe it

 

 

Jim Kelly, Dan Marino and Drew Brees, I beg to differ. Brees and Marino especially accomplished far more with bad supporting casts. Brady falls in this category too, considering his receivers weren't All Pro guys for most of those championship runs. 

 

Probably Manning's best comparison is Kelly - loaded team with a stacked offense. Many of those Colts teams resemble the 90's Bills note for note... Yes, Manning was great, but it don't take away he had a much better supporting cast than most of the other QB's of his era. Same thing goes for Kelly, he had a very good supporting cast that probably would all be in the Hall of Fame had they won just one Super Bowl. 

 

He was a great quarterback, but I don't think he's the be all/end all of quarterbacks...

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, Synthetic said:

 

I don't remember Brady or Brees going out with a record NINE one and dones in the first round of the playoffs, many of them with home field advantage. 

 

Brady has accomplished far more than Peyton ever did in the playoffs. That whole argument is pretty much over after the big comeback vs the Falcons this past year. 

 

Brady is the GOAT after this last Super Bowl...

 

 

 

 

Manning went to 4 superbowl.  How many has brees been to?

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, Synthetic said:

 

 

Jim Kelly, Dan Marino and Drew Brees, I beg to differ. Brees and Marino especially accomplished far more with bad supporting casts. Brady falls in this category too, considering his receivers weren't All Pro guys for most of those championship runs. 

 

Probably Manning's best comparison is Kelly - loaded team with a stacked offense. Many of those Colts teams resemble the 90's Bills note for note... Yes, Manning was great, but it don't take away he had a much better supporting cast than most of the other QB's of his era. Same thing goes for Kelly, he had a very good supporting cast that probably would all be in the Hall of Fame had they won just one Super Bowl. 

 

He was a great quarterback, but I don't think he's the be all/end all of quarterbacks...

Maybe not,  but he was better than Brees ever was

[Lucky Colts Fan]

4 hours ago, dgambill said:

With Drew Brees just 74 Tds and 5829 yds behind Manning and Tom Brady only slightly further behind at 83 Tds and 10,358 yds the two most significant records of Peyton's career will likely be broken before he takes the stage in Canton.

 

If Brady and Brees both play for another four years, Manning might be 3rd in both categories by the time he is enshrined.

 

3 hours ago, chad72 said:

It might be Brady in a few years but another 20 years later, you may not be able to sneeze on a QB and we might see 6000 yards of passing in a year, who knows!!! 

 

I'm hoping Mannings' records will stand for another 10-15 years, until Luck is nearing the end of his career and starts breaking records.  If anyone is going to break Mannings' records, I want it to be Luck.

 

[GoPats]

 

Career stats are a little tricky, because longevity matters. If Manning had as many (healthy) seasons under his belt as Favre, the records he holds would probably last a bit longer. (But Favre's record for consecutive starts, which is impressive in its own right, will be one of those that I don't think will be touched for a long, long time. Unfortunately for him, his interceptions record probably will also! ) 

 

I would bet that even if Brees or Brady (or both) pass him, the per-game stats will still favor Manning. Regardless of anyone's overall opinion, he was probably the most productive volume stats QB ever. Hard to deny that.

 

The game itself dictates that QB records will not last as long as they used to. 4,000 yard seasons used to be a benchmark, but now they're run-of-the-mill. 30-TD seasons used to be the high bar, but the best QBs exceed that on a regular basis now. 

 

 

[BloodyChamp]

19 hours ago, Synthetic said:

 

I don't remember Brady or Brees going out with a record NINE one and dones in the first round of the playoffs, many of them with home field advantage. 

 

Brady has accomplished far more than Peyton ever did in the playoffs. That whole argument is pretty much over after the big comeback vs the Falcons this past year. 

 

Brady is the GOAT after this last Super Bowl...

 

 

 

 

 

Brees is working on a record with the number 9 if that's how you want to run with this.

[BloodyChamp]

The only records that are untouchable now are the ones you don't want. Favre's INT and fumble records aren't going anywhere because you don't have to take risks knowing the outcome might not be good anymore. 90% of all turnovers are just straight up dumb throws or not holding on to the ball. It's possible Peyton's spot in the bottom of the 10 most INT'd is safe. A quarterback will get benched before the record is even being thought about.

 

As for the the rest of the stats, because of the ongoing change the game is making towards passing, we probably haven't seen the greatest statistical quarterback. Seriously...he might not even be born yet. The 2 that are up there did their best work in their late 30s and 1 of them isn't finished.

[Valpo2004]

18 hours ago, Synthetic said:

 

 

Jim Kelly, Dan Marino and Drew Brees, I beg to differ. Brees and Marino especially accomplished far more with bad supporting casts. Brady falls in this category too, considering his receivers weren't All Pro guys for most of those championship runs. 

 

Probably Manning's best comparison is Kelly - loaded team with a stacked offense. Many of those Colts teams resemble the 90's Bills note for note... Yes, Manning was great, but it don't take away he had a much better supporting cast than most of the other QB's of his era. Same thing goes for Kelly, he had a very good supporting cast that probably would all be in the Hall of Fame had they won just one Super Bowl. 

 

He was a great quarterback, but I don't think he's the be all/end all of quarterbacks...

 

Brady may not have had all pro-receivers but he had top defenses.

 

I think I looked and every year that he won the superbowl his defense was in the top 5 of the NFL.  

 

This might have been the failing of the Colts and Polian.  Great receivers with great QB can put up points and big numbers.  But putting a great D on the field along with a great QB just throwing to OK receivers is a better mixture for success.  

[Valpo2004]

3 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

The only records that are untouchable now are the ones you don't want. Favre's INT and fumble records aren't going anywhere because you don't have to take risks knowing the outcome might not be good anymore. 90% of all turnovers are just straight up dumb throws or not holding on to the ball. It's possible Peyton's spot in the bottom of the 10 most INT'd is safe. A quarterback will get benched before the record is even being thought about.

 

As for the the rest of the stats, because of the ongoing change the game is making towards passing, we probably haven't seen the greatest statistical quarterback. Seriously...he might not even be born yet. The 2 that are up there did their best work in their late 30s and 1 of them isn't finished.

 

Agree with this.  Overall QB's are becomming more and more efficent.  So interception rates are going down and TD rates are going up.

 

Also Farve played an extraordinarily long time, even for a quarterback.  Which is a big reason he has the INT record.  Don't get me wrong he was a gunslinger, but he wasn't that bad overall, he just played for a longer time then anyone else.  

[BloodyChamp]

19 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

All you need is the eye test

 

This will always be the case imo. I'll choose another guy who this applies to that isn't as personal around here. Donovan McNabb - was he ever really that good? He had success but really how good was he? On the other hand was Archie Manning, Doug Williams, Dave Kreig, etc who nobody will call bad quarterbacks even though they weren't always successful. People know good players when they see them regardless of the breaks they get or miss.

[Jason_]

someone who hasn't been born yet

[chad72]

4 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Brady may not have had all pro-receivers but he had top defenses.

 

I think I looked and every year that he won the superbowl his defense was in the top 5 of the NFL.  

 

This might have been the failing of the Colts and Polian.  Great receivers with great QB can put up points and big numbers.  But putting a great D on the field along with a great QB just throwing to OK receivers is a better mixture for success.  

 

Focus on the OL and D, the elite QB will have plenty of support and balance on O. Plus, don't make the special teams an ugly step child, invest in the 40th - 53rd guy on the team to make them more quality than just quantity.

[footballhero1]

Ok not to get into the pillow fight going on, Brees has the best chance. Brees has a crap defense and his team is overly reliant on him slinging the ball and putting up monster number. Brees will be forced to do that for a long time. 

 

Brady is on a team where he could do that every game, but if Belichick thinks they need to run most of the game to win they will make one of their two new RB's look like stars. 

 

So I think both will have a really good chance of passing. Legacy wise it matters more for Brees. Brady is already considered better, if he even finishes in the ballpark of Manning it kind of takes a way the big bulk stack advantage Peyton's always had down a peg in those comparisons. Brees with a ring  and all the records could get the respect he deserves. 

 

Nobody will forget about Peyton either. We were privildged to say we watched a league with those 3 and Rodgers basically making almost everyone before them pale in comparison. The next generation quite frankely looks weak.

[BPindy]

Just off of stats it won't be any of the big name historical qbs. Most of the younger qbs are on way faster paces (especially for yards)

[Chrisaaron1023]

Sad it only lasted a few years. It'll only be about 3 years.. but the guys breaking it are playing well into their 40's (so they say) They should break the stats record. 

[aaron11]

On 7/26/2017 at 9:16 AM, GoPats said:

 Unfortunately for him, his interceptions record probably will also! ) 

thats like kobe's record for missed shots

 

both guys played a long time and they were both gunslingers.  i doubt either guy is too worked up over those records

[Lucky Colts Fan]

13 hours ago, footballhero1 said:

We were privildged to say we watched a league with those 3 and Rodgers

 

People have called the 2000s the Golden Age of Quarterbacking.  Favre straddled both centuries so his name can be substituted for any other, he's like his own statistical era.  

 

 

We're still kind of experiencing it right now, so there isn't the same nostalgia and appreciation yet as there is for guys like Montana, Marino and Elway.  But I think when we look back on the accomplishments of QBs since the turn of the century, we're going to realize just how lucky we were to experience this era.

 

Manning, Brees and Brady have basically created a new statistical tier, and they're the top tier for now.  It will probably be the 2030s before someone like Luck, Ryan, Newton, etc. is able to come close to breaking their major records.  But the way the NFL is trending, someone will come along and break every major QB record eventually.

 

[dgambill]

The thread isn't about who is greater or how much this affects Peyton's legacy rather actually when and how much longer it will be before both those records fall. Brady is in a tier of his own right now with the SBs. He is the new modern day Montana. Greatest of his era. Is he a better qb than Peyton...that is always debatable. Its often said he has more SBs and wins and that is clear he is more successful....well soon enough he will break Peyton's records and he will also have better stats and more wins....what's left to debate...even for a Colts fan. You can debate which was more enjoyable to watch but that's more of which is your favorite not which is better. Brees will have beaten Peyton in yardage, tds, and in a SB head to head...so there will be arguments to be made for him too but I do think only one SB appearance will set him just below Peyton. That said if people are willing to say Peyton is better than Brady and overlook the SB difference then they should be able to overlook Brees as well....can't use the argument to make your case against one and not use the same on the other. In the end these 3 will be grouped together for this era I believe. Guys that kind of changed the NFL rules and initiated the passing league. I'm sure all the records get broken down the line but later on you will look at them the same way we look at a Johnny Unitas....they changed the NFL.

 

So back on point what do you believe the standings of these 3 to be by the time Peyton is standing up to make his Canton remarks? (this assumes they all retire in the next 4 years which seems logical). My prediction is that it will be Drew, Tom, then Peyton in passing yardage with Drew going just shy of 80,000 and Tom ending up closer to 75,000. However, I do believe that Tom will end up 1st in TDs, then Drew, then Peyton. I think Tom will likely end up with about 595 tds and Drew 580. I don't think Tom quits until he passes Peyton in both marks honestly and he may push to beat Drew but I think Drew will put the yardage too far out.

[Chrisaaron1023]

2 hours ago, dgambill said:

The thread isn't about who is greater or how much this affects Peyton's legacy rather actually when and how much longer it will be before both those records fall. Brady is in a tier of his own right now with the SBs. He is the new modern day Montana. Greatest of his era. Is he a better qb than Peyton...that is always debatable. Its often said he has more SBs and wins and that is clear he is more successful....well soon enough he will break Peyton's records and he will also have better stats and more wins....what's left to debate...even for a Colts fan. You can debate which was more enjoyable to watch but that's more of which is your favorite not which is better. Brees will have beaten Peyton in yardage, tds, and in a SB head to head...so there will be arguments to be made for him too but I do think only one SB appearance will set him just below Peyton. That said if people are willing to say Peyton is better than Brady and overlook the SB difference then they should be able to overlook Brees as well....can't use the argument to make your case against one and not use the same on the other. In the end these 3 will be grouped together for this era I believe. Guys that kind of changed the NFL rules and initiated the passing league. I'm sure all the records get broken down the line but later on you will look at them the same way we look at a Johnny Unitas....they changed the NFL.

 

So back on point what do you believe the standings of these 3 to be by the time Peyton is standing up to make his Canton remarks? (this assumes they all retire in the next 4 years which seems logical). My prediction is that it will be Drew, Tom, then Peyton in passing yardage with Drew going just shy of 80,000 and Tom ending up closer to 75,000. However, I do believe that Tom will end up 1st in TDs, then Drew, then Peyton. I think Tom will likely end up with about 595 tds and Drew 580. I don't think Tom quits until he passes Peyton in both marks honestly and he may push to beat Drew but I think Drew will put the yardage too far out.

depressing.. but true, sadly...

 

I honestly hope brees plays longer so he can have the records.. I cant image Brady being at the top of that chart either.. KMN 

 

 

[BloodyChamp]

Brees and Payton are nothing but a couple of Jones and Romos dressed in black and yellow. The comparison is distorted because of the tainted ring they won but they're not quitting their love affair until 1 of them breaks their back. Romo had similar volume stats if you remember, but the result at the end of the year was often meh. We are going to see some of that to btw (stats that don't equate with success) and not just from Brees. 

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

Brees and Payton are nothing but a couple of Jones and Romos dressed in black and yellow. The comparison is distorted because of the tainted ring they won but they're not quitting their love affair until 1 of them breaks their back. Romo had similar volume stats if you remember, but the result at the end of the year was often meh. We are going to see some of that to btw (stats that don't equate with success) and not just from Brees. 

I think Drew is one of the biggest beneficiaries of the rules change. Payton's offense combined with Drews skills and the fact they play from behind with such a horrific defense means he can put up a ton of stats. He is a great qb. That said like you see in college football there are some programs that put up Star Wars numbers kind of empty numbers and while I believe Drew could excel in any situation he hasn't played on very strong teams. I am very impressed with his longevity with his size. He is in excellent shape to be still lighting it up at this point. He deserves his success but he just hasn't been on a complete team for awhile though.