Very small, minor Andrew Luck update

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Someone mentioned we could lose the first few games due to maybe Luck not playing or Luck being "rusty". Then some other dude pointed out that an 0-2 start could make Irsay disappointed enough to fire him. Not very hard to read the thread and discern that info lol...

Irsay is not going to fire Pagano if we go 0-2. For someone to even bring that up don't know Irsay very well.

If Irsay does fire Pagano it would be at the end of the season IMO and not before.

 

[southwest1]

10 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

So, you wanna have Ray Rice give INDY the ticked off for greatness speech? I'm fine with that. LOL!

Oops! I meant Ray Lewis instead of Ray Rice. My bad. 

 

What frustrates me most is this: If we have a disappointing yr, Colt fans will say come on, we have a new GM, new faces on the field give Pagano & Ballard more time to click & gel together. 

 

If we have an unbelievable yr & just for the sake of the argument; play in the Championship game & lose again, INDY fans will claim see I told ya Chuck was the real deal & Grigon was the dead weight not Pags. We need to back the Brinks truck up to his house & drown him in money now. 

 

Meanwhile, Chewbacca is continuing to lose ground on his prime yrs in the league. Look, if we advance in the playoffs Pags has a right to assert compensate me for that annual success. I just differ on what that level of compensation would be hypothetically. At best, 1 more yr not say 4 more yrs because I would classify it as a rare anomaly vs a future trend foreshadowing SB glory. 

 

If I'm Irsay I'm already creating another coaching interview list. What's that slogan? Nobody plans to fail they just fail to plan. 

[crazycolt1]

10 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Oops! I meant Ray Lewis instead of Ray Rice. My bad. 

 

What frustrates me most is this: If we have a disappointing yr, Colt fans will say come on, we have a new GM, new faces on the field give Pagano & Ballard more time to click & gel together. 

 

If we have an unbelievable yr & just for the sake of the argument; play in the Championship game & lose again, INDY fans will claim see I told ya Chuck was the real deal & Grigon was the dead weight not Pags. We need to back the Brinks truck up to his house & drown him in money now. 

 

Meanwhile, Chewbacca is continuing to lose ground on his prime yrs in the league. Look, if we advance in the playoffs Pags has a right to assert compensate me for that annual success. I just differ on what that level of compensation would be hypothetically. At best, 1 more yr not say 4 more yrs because I would classify it as a rare anomaly vs a future trend foreshadowing SB glory. 

 

If I'm Irsay I'm already creating another coaching interview list. What's that slogan? Nobody plans to fail they just fail to plan. 

C-mon SW, you know it don't work that way. If Pagano is not fired he will get an extension and it won't be for one year.

With that said Irsay can afford to buy him out if he changes his mind.

He paid Grigson.

[southwest1]

27 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

C-mon SW, you know it don't work that way. If Pagano is not fired he will get an extension and it won't be for one year.

With that said Irsay can afford to buy him out if he changes his mind.

He paid Grigson.

This is gonna sound cruel. But, if I was Jimmy, this is what I would say to Pags:

 

Chuck, you've been a great leader for the city of Indianapolis & I'm relieved & overjoyed that you survived your bout with cancer. I truly am. However, all that's on the table is another 1 yr extension from me right now. Where else are you gonna go & get another NFL head coaching gig with stability from the top down & a loaded offensive roster? Show me you can make another deep post season run in back to back yrs & then we can talk about lengthy job security prospects in INDY Chuck. 

 

Yes, he did pay Ryan...To walk away & he could easily do the same thing for Chuck. Jimmy did the same thing to Caldwell who actually played in a SB in 2009 BTW & Pags only got to the precursor to a SB appearance. 

 

Coaches know going in it's about post season production inching closer to SB rings not regressing away from them. Chuck's a nice guy, but I want a demanding guy like Jimmy Johnson in the early 90's. An HC who will not tolerate complacency & make sure players under his supervision are mentally tough not committing false start penalties in their own home stadium. Or not collapse psychologically when playing NE for instance. 

 

Everybody knows Chuck really has no leverage because if he were to be let go he'd drop right back to be a defensive coordinator again. Okay, maybe some franchise like the Browns or Jets would consider it, but after his stint there was done, he'd no longer have any HC offers. JMO. 

[southwest1]

CC1, I like you & my stance on Pagano is business not personal. I've been wrong before & eaten crow when Jim Caldwell shocked me & won a SB with the Ravens as OC. 

 

I'm not advocating for Chuck's demise. I just have seen enough to know that he's taken us as far as he can go & new blood is needed. That's where I'm at. 

[akcolt]

1 hour ago, southwest1 said:

Oops! I meant Ray Lewis instead of Ray Rice. My bad. 

 

What frustrates me most is this: If we have a disappointing yr, Colt fans will say come on, we have a new GM, new faces on the field give Pagano & Ballard more time to click & gel together. 

 

If we have an unbelievable yr & just for the sake of the argument; play in the Championship game & lose again, INDY fans will claim see I told ya Chuck was the real deal & Grigon was the dead weight not Pags. We need to back the Brinks truck up to his house & drown him in money now. 

 

Meanwhile, Chewbacca is continuing to lose ground on his prime yrs in the league. Look, if we advance in the playoffs Pags has a right to assert compensate me for that annual success. I just differ on what that level of compensation would be hypothetically. At best, 1 more yr not say 4 more yrs because I would classify it as a rare anomaly vs a future trend foreshadowing SB glory. 

 

If I'm Irsay I'm already creating another coaching interview list. What's that slogan? Nobody plans to fail they just fail to plan. 

You really think Pagano has that kind of support?  He can fail with this team in our divison this year? I don't see that. I don't think Ballard feels that way.

 

We have the top QB in the division. Ballard has given him more tools on D then he's ever had. The pass rush is far from fixed but should be improved if only slightly. If we don't make the playoffs. He's gone. If that doesn't happen we may have our GM step down. I don't think Ballard would go for that. I wouldn't. 

 

If we go to the AFCCG then that's a big statement that Grig's was the biggest problem. We all know Grig's was at least part of the problem. How much his incompetence effected? That is the question. 

 

Ballard could have released every player on D. How many guys do you think find themselves on a roster when the season kicks off? 

 

We will see how this season plays out. I'm pretty sure Ballard has a list of coaches ready to hand to Irsay. If we don't perform on the field Irsay will get it. I feel pretty confident about that 

[akcolt]

For the record I think a trip to the conference championship game is highly unlikely. I don't think winning our division is an unrealistic goal. I think it very fair if that is the minimum Ballard expects Pag's  to get from this team..

 

[Peterk2011]

45 minutes ago, akcolt said:

For the record I think a trip to the conference championship game is highly unlikely. I don't think winning our division is an unrealistic goal. I think it very fair if that is the minimum Ballard expects Pag's  to get from this team..

 

There is a huge difference between "winning the division is not unrealistic", and "setting it as the minimum expectation".  

 

I think the last thing Irsay (and not Ballard, it wont be Ballard's decision imo) will do is to make decisions based purely on record. He won't, and he shouldn't. Ballard did a great job turning things the right direction, but as far as roster quality, honestly, the Colts are still at least a step behind everyone else in the division.

[southwest1]

32 minutes ago, akcolt said:

You really think Pagano has that kind of support?  He can fail with this team in our divison this year? I don't see that. I don't think Ballard feels that way.

 

We have the top QB in the division. Ballard has given him more tools on D then he's ever had. The pass rush is far from fixed but should be improved if only slightly. If we don't make the playoffs. He's gone. If that doesn't happen we may have our GM step down. I don't think Ballard would go for that. I wouldn't. 

 

If we go to the AFCCG then that's a big statement that Grig's was the biggest problem. We all know Grig's was at least part of the problem. How much his incompetence effected? That is the question. 

 

Ballard could have released every player on D. How many guys do you think find themselves on a roster when the season kicks off? 

 

We will see how this season plays out. I'm pretty sure Ballard has a list of coaches ready to hand to Irsay. If we don't perform on the field Irsay will get it. I feel pretty confident about that 

I don't understand your reply at all. I was giving forum readers worst & best case scenarios based on how well or poorly our season record will be interpreted by both retain Pags supporters & release him at season's end naysayers. 

 

Most newly hired GMs play nice with an existing HC until they get to select the new guy designed to replace the old guy with the owners blessing/approval naturally. Don't fall for that pleasantry crap that all new front office hires customarily say about head coaches running the show for a few yrs before the new face arrived. And how much they are looking forward to working with the current HC. 

 

How would Ballard be gone if we miss the playoffs in his first yr in INDY? Give the man at least 4 drafts to build up our defense. 

 

I do agree with you that letting go of Grigson was long overdue & that Jimmy has high expectations for this team about being competitive yr in; yr out. He's demanding but reasonable. I can't answer who makes the roster defensively  until the middle of August.

[bananabucket]

R.I.P. original topic

[akcolt]

2 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I don't understand your reply at all. I was giving forum readers worst & best case scenarios based on how well or poorly our season record will be interpreted by both retain Pags supporters & release him at season's end naysayers. 

 

Most newly hired GMs play nice with an existing HC until they get to select the new guy designed to replace the old guy with the owners blessing/approval naturally. Don't fall for that pleasantry crap that all new front office hires customarily say about head coaches running the show for a few yrs before the new face arrived. And how much they are looking forward to working with the current HC. 

 

How would Ballard be gone if we miss the playoffs in his first yr in INDY? Give the man at least 4 drafts to build up our defense. 

 

I do agree with you that letting go of Grigson was long overdue & that Jimmy has high expectations for this team about being competitive yr in; yr out. He's demanding but reasonable. I can't answer who makes the roster defensively  until the middle of August.

You read that as Ballard will be let go if the team doesn't make the playoffs?  That's not what I said my words were Ballard steps down. That means he quits.  

 

As you pointed out GM's typically want to bring in their guy to coach the team. If Irsay saddles Ballard with Pagona after an unsuccessful season. He may not want to work for Irsay. 

 

Ballard strikes me as a no nonsense kind of guy. If he believes the season shows Chuck is part or the problem. Then Irsay says Pagano stays that's final. Ballard decides to walk citing he can't do his job with Pag's as the coach and walks. 

  

What I was questioning in the OP was the idea that Pagano would have a ton of fan support if he falls on his face this season. I don't think Pag's is going to have many supporters if we stink this season. I doubt Ballard will be one. 

[crazycolt1]

5 hours ago, southwest1 said:

This is gonna sound cruel. But, if I was Jimmy, this is what I would say to Pags:

 

Chuck, you've been a great leader for the city of Indianapolis & I'm relieved & overjoyed that you survived your bout with cancer. I truly am. However, all that's on the table is another 1 yr extension from me right now. Where else are you gonna go & get another NFL head coaching gig with stability from the top down & a loaded offensive roster? Show me you can make another deep post season run in back to back yrs & then we can talk about lengthy job security prospects in INDY Chuck. 

 

Yes, he did pay Ryan...To walk away & he could easily do the same thing for Chuck. Jimmy did the same thing to Caldwell who actually played in a SB in 2009 BTW & Pags only got to the precursor to a SB appearance. 

 

Coaches know going in it's about post season production inching closer to SB rings not regressing away from them. Chuck's a nice guy, but I want a demanding guy like Jimmy Johnson in the early 90's. An HC who will not tolerate complacency & make sure players under his supervision are mentally tough not committing false start penalties in their own home stadium. Or not collapse psychologically when playing NE for instance. 

 

Everybody knows Chuck really has no leverage because if he were to be let go he'd drop right back to be a defensive coordinator again. Okay, maybe some franchise like the Browns or Jets would consider it, but after his stint there was done, he'd no longer have any HC offers. JMO. 

For you to assume that if Chuck was fired he would go back to a DC or a head coach for a lowly franchise IMO is wrong. With Chucks record and the fact players love playing for him he wouldn't be long to land another head coaching position. There have been ex head coaches who didn't come close to Chucks record that have landed another head coaching position. Mr. God (Belichick) himself had a losing record and landed with a pretty good gig. As of right now Chuck has a better record than he did.

You have let your personal dislike for Pagano to cloud reality.

[BR-549]

We should have a pinned thread designated for "Pagano talk" and require that ANYTHING to do with him or the HC position be placed in that thread.

 

That way anytime someone feels the urge to discuss Chuck they have a place to go.

 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

6 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Irsay is not going to fire Pagano if we go 0-2. For someone to even bring that up don't know Irsay very well.

If Irsay does fire Pagano it would be at the end of the season IMO and not before.

 

You don't have to tell me that. I dislike pagano as much any poster but I don't agree with the 0-2 argument. That's a huge overreaction. 

[Albaby]

So, I here that Andrew Luck is getting close to throwing again ...

[MB-ColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, Albaby said:

So, I here that Andrew Luck is getting close to throwing again ...

You don't say.  Where on earth did you hear that??

[jameszeigler834]

14 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

Stretch run won't matter if we start 2-4 again.

 

If Luck can play, he's gotta play. You can't afford to lose games in this league. 1 or 2 wins could seriously be the difference between making the playoffs and looking for a new coach next off season.

I'm not sold on Pagano anyway we either make the playoffs or he needs to go.

[GoColts8818]

Until the Colts bring in another vet QB I am not worried about Andrew Luck.

[Yoshinator]

1 hour ago, jameszeigler834 said:

I'm not sold on Pagano anyway we either make the playoffs or he needs to go.

I disagree, he either beats the Pats, Steelers, or Raiders in the playoffs (or makes the SB without facing them even though it's a 1 in 60 chance or something like that), or he's gone. Making the playoffs isn't good enough if he's once again going to lose to one of the big 3. I want a victory over at least one of them to show we belong. If we do something like beat the Raiders or Steelers and lose to the Pats, I can handle it. If we just get destroyed by the Steelers or Raiders (or someone worse), in the wildcard round, Pagano goes. 

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, jameszeigler834 said:

I'm not sold on Pagano anyway we either make the playoffs or he needs to go.

They need to probably win a playoff game to keep his job IMO.

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I disagree, he either beats the Pats, Steelers, or Raiders in the playoffs (or makes the SB without facing them even though it's a 1 in 60 chance or something like that), or he's gone. Making the playoffs isn't good enough if he's once again going to lose to one of the big 3. I want a victory over at least one of them to show we belong. If we do something like beat the Raiders or Steelers and lose to the Pats, I can handle it. If we just get destroyed by the Steelers or Raiders (or someone worse), in the wildcard round, Pagano goes. 

 

doesn't matter what you want, or what SW1 wants or anyone else.  Irsay and Ballard will decide what THEY want and THAT is what will be used to determine whether he's kept or not.

 

BTW, anyone who thinks that Irsay only extended Pagano into 2017 because of the bout with cancer is seriously delusional.

 

PS.  As of now, the Raiders are a one year wonder.  Let's see them repeat that 12-4 record +/- for a few years before adding them to the same discussion as the pats/steelers.  That's not to say that I don't think they can...but let's see them actually do it first.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, J@son said:

 

doesn't matter what you want, or what SW1 wants or anyone else.  Irsay and Ballard will decide what THEY want and THAT is what will be used to determine whether he's kept or not.

 

BTW, anyone who thinks that Irsay only extended Pagano into 2017 because of the bout with cancer is seriously delusional.

So if it doesn't matter what we want, lets just close down this message board. It obviously doesn't matter what opinion we have. Or maybe people with the opposite opinion don't matter to you. Also, quote me where I said anything about Pagano being extended because of cancer. I seriously think you are drunk right now. If not, you need to double check what you write in your posts.

[Jason_]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

So if it doesn't matter what we want, lets just close down this message board. It obviously doesn't matter what opinion we have. Or maybe people with the opposite opinion don't matter to you. Also, quote me where I said anything about Pagano being extended because of cancer. I seriously think you are drunk right now. If not, you need to double check what you write in your posts.

 

I've seen that posted several times from several people and wanted to simply address it before it came up again.  it was not meant toward you directly.

[Yoshinator]

6 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

doesn't matter what you want, or what SW1 wants or anyone else.  Irsay and Ballard will decide what THEY want and THAT is what will be used to determine whether he's kept or not.

 

BTW, anyone who thinks that Irsay only extended Pagano into 2017 because of the bout with cancer is seriously delusional.

 

PS.  As of now, the Raiders are a one year wonder.  Let's see them repeat that 12-4 record +/- for a few years before adding them to the same discussion as the pats/steelers.  That's not to say that I don't think they can...but let's see them actually do it first.

I actually think that the Raiders match up poorly vs the Pats, but IMO, they match up well against the rest of the the AFC, including the Colts. So while they are probably in our shoes (waiting for Brady to retire to make the SB), I think they are just as big as a threat to stop us as the Steelers and the Pats as of now. Luckily, when the Pats retire, we should be ready to beat them with a couple extra drafts and FA classes.

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

So if it doesn't matter what we want, lets just close down this message board. It obviously doesn't matter what opinion we have. Or maybe people with the opposite opinion don't matter to you.

 

there's a difference in having discussion about the team and what you'd like to see happen, and saying what needs to happen or someone is gone.  eh, more semantics than anything.  

 

long story short, this comment:

 

"I disagree, he either beats the Pats, Steelers, or Raiders in the playoffs (or makes the SB without facing them even though it's a 1 in 60 chance or something like that), or he's gone. "

 

would have sounded better like this:

 

I disagree, he either beats the Pats, Steelers, or Raiders in the playoffs (or makes the SB without facing them even though it's a 1 in 60 chance or something like that), or I'd want him gone."

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, J@son said:

 

there's a difference in having discussion about the team and what you'd like to see happen, and saying what needs to happen or someone is gone.  eh, more semantics than anything.  

 

long story short, this comment:

 

"I disagree, he either beats the Pats, Steelers, or Raiders in the playoffs (or makes the SB without facing them even though it's a 1 in 60 chance or something like that), or he's gone. "

 

would have sounded better like this:

 

I disagree, he either beats the Pats, Steelers, or Raiders in the playoffs (or makes the SB without facing them even though it's a 1 in 60 chance or something like that), or I'd want him gone."

If that's the disagreement, then I can handle it. 

[Jason_]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

If that's the disagreement, then I can handle it. 

 

well, i also disagree with the notion that he should have to beat the Pats, Steelers or Raiders in the playoffs or make it to the SB...but I have no desire to get into that debate again.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, J@son said:

 

well, i also disagree with the notion that he should have to beat the Pats, Steelers or Raiders in the playoffs or make it to the SB...but I have no desire to get into that debate again.

Hahaha fair enough! I'm an impatient person I guess.  

[crazycolt1]

17 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

well, i also disagree with the notion that he should have to beat the Pats, Steelers or Raiders in the playoffs or make it to the SB...but I have no desire to get into that debate again.

Exactly. Irsay has already made the comment the Colts record would not be the determining factor if Pagano being fired or not. This obsession with Pagano wanting to be fired goes way over board to where it is infiltrating threads that have nothing to do with it. It's past ridiculous.

[jskinnz]

2 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Until the Colts bring in another vet QB I am not worried about Andrew Luck.

 

This and some more of this.

 

I am pretty sure if there was true worry from the peeps on W. 56th St, Fitzpatrick or some other vet would have been brought in for OTA reps.

[BR-549]

Frankly I am sick of the Pagano discussion.  Anytime his name is mentioned it completely detours the thread and the same old arguments come up.

 

He is here until he is gone and even then it will be someone else that isn't coaching to expectation according to some.  

 

Would like the Pagano story to end until we see what he does with his revised roster.  I am guessing that is as wishful as us winning a Super Bowl this year, lol. 

 

Give up the hate for christ sake

[Superman]

18 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If he plays like the last two years for the remainder of his career, we're toast as far as SB chances go.

 

Luck had a very good year last year.

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Luck had a very good year last year.

There's two sides to it. The overall stats and metrics say he did well, the slow starts say otherwise. Despite the overall performance of Luck, if we continue to start games the way we did last year with Luck, we won't beat the elite teams, and that's hard to argue. Remember, I said as far as SB chances go, we'd be toast.

[bananabucket]

39 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

There's two sides to it. The overall stats and metrics say he did well, the slow starts say otherwise. Despite the overall performance of Luck, if we continue to start games the way we did last year with Luck, we won't beat the elite teams, and that's hard to argue. Remember, I said as far as SB chances go, we'd be toast.

 

I can't imagine watching Luck last season and thinking "this is not good enough QB play for a team to win a championship with".  His supporting cast outside of Hilton was lackluster at best and his defense was bottom 5 easily.  Place the exact same player on one of the league's better rosters and you quite easily have a top 2 or 3 SB contender.

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, bananabucket said:

 

I can't imagine watching Luck last season and thinking "this is not good enough QB play for a team to win a championship with".  His supporting cast outside of Hilton was lackluster at best and his defense was bottom 5 easily.  Place the exact same player on one of the league's better rosters and you quite easily have a top 2 or 3 SB contender.

Probably, but the slow starts are still unacceptable. Also, the defense doesn't keep the offense from scoring either, so it's not like we're in a Saints situation where Brees puts up points and the defense gives it away. We just weren't putting up many points early, and it was putting an already bad defense in a tough spot. We will find out this year with all the new additions in the Draft and Free Agency whether it was a lack of talent and Pagano didn't deserve the criticism he got, or if the Coaching is just horrible and Pagano and Chud need to be shown the door. It's one or the other, no in-between. We'll find out by the end of the season.

[superrep1967]

On 7/10/2017 at 4:48 PM, SilentHill said:

 

Can we just sign Johnny Manziel and RGIII now? According to some analysts those QB's are better than Andrew anyway.

lol, Yeah. like Skip baseless

[jameszeigler834]

5 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I disagree, he either beats the Pats, Steelers, or Raiders in the playoffs (or makes the SB without facing them even though it's a 1 in 60 chance or something like that), or he's gone. Making the playoffs isn't good enough if he's once again going to lose to one of the big 3. I want a victory over at least one of them to show we belong. If we do something like beat the Raiders or Steelers and lose to the Pats, I can handle it. If we just get destroyed by the Steelers or Raiders (or someone worse), in the wildcard round, Pagano goes. 

If we can beat the steelers in the regular season matchup this season I will say we are headed back in the right direction.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, jameszeigler834 said:

If we can beat the steelers in the regular season matchup this season I will say we are headed back in the right direction.

I agree, that will be a big one to watch this season. Will test our resolve. 

[Superman]

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

There's two sides to it. The overall stats and metrics say he did well, the slow starts say otherwise. Despite the overall performance of Luck, if we continue to start games the way we did last year with Luck, we won't beat the elite teams, and that's hard to argue. Remember, I said as far as SB chances go, we'd be toast.

 

Luck wasn't the problem last year, including with slow starts, despite your insistence otherwise. Luck's play was more than sufficient for a team to go to the SB. 

[Yoshinator]

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Luck wasn't the problem last year, including with slow starts, despite your insistence otherwise. Luck's play was more than sufficient for a team to go to the SB. 

Then what was in your opinion? The slow starts were a big part of it, because it put extra pressure on the defense, and not scoring points is on Luck (the leader of the team). If you want to argue it's coaching, that's fine. Just make sure to make it your argument. Luck's play was not sufficient enough to reach the SB, that theory is debunked by how the Raiders were destroying us until Carr got injured. I think we were down by 3 TDs. If the Steelers and Pats are even better, then we have no chance of beating them if we start slow. If you want to argue that we can make the playoffs with Luck playing how he is, I'll agree with you, we can't beat the elite AFC teams though and make the SB. We couldn't even do it when Luck was at his highest point thus far in 2014, so there's no way we can do it with the way things currently are.