Colin Cowherd 6/29 - Andrew Luck & Colts

[Dudley Smith]

Did anyone catch Colin Cowherd's show today? A big part of his show today was about NBA free agents needing to get out of bad situations with teams that weren't doing enough to help them win now. One of the players that was discussed as needing to get the hell out of dodge was Paul George. After discussing this, Cowherd segued into a discussion of the NFL. He asked the question to the audience of why NFL players (specifically QBs) aren't following suit with NBA stars in demanding trades and/or not showing blind loyalty to the franchise that drafted them.

 

The question posed was general, however, Cowherd quickly made this segment specifically about Andrew Luck and the Colts. He stated that as far as he could tell, Andrew Luck's situation was the same as Paul George on the Pacers. Both on teams that weren't doing anything to help their respective star and both stuck in Indianapolis -- a city that doesn't attract any free agents. He said that Luck (and Aaron Rodgers -- who was sort of looped into the discussion) should be on the phone with his agent and looking around at other teams to go to.

 

I actually generally like Cowherd, but I thought this comparison to Paul George and the Pacers was very apples to oranges. For one, in the NFL, you really can't form "Superteams" like you can in the NBA these days. For one, the biggest stars are the QBs, and Luck, Rogers, and Brady aren't going to all play for the Patriots to win a ring because there is only one of them that can be a starter. In the NBA the players are much more interchangeable. Sure, you have five different positions, but the line between each of these is becoming more and more blurred in today's NBA. This is a huge difference from the NFL where you have 11 guys on each side of the ball that all are specialists in what they do. It makes it really hard to have the "best" at each position on the same team because there is so much ground to cover.

 

I also think there is a clear "culture" difference between the NBA and the NFL. I don't think players are looking for a cheap ring in the NFL like they are in the NBA. I also think this is part of the reason why the NBA ratings are taking a hit -- people are somewhat turned off by this "if you can't beat em join em" mentality in the NBA right now.

 

Just my two cents.

[BR-549]

Yeah I saw it.  Kind of teed me off.  He has said the same before and always mentions AL.  Nick and Chris Carter cut him down pretty quick on it.

 

I wish he would get off the whole transient thing as far as "big name" athletes should have the freedom to choose where they work.  

 

Definitely one of his ideas that I disagree with and makes me want to turn the channel when he starts talking about it.  He had nothing but good things to say about us hiring CB and basically said we finally have a good GM and watch out for us in a few years.  Then he pulls this crap today.

 

On the other hand he is for sure a Andrew Luck homer, which I kind of like.

[BR-549]

And you are right, can't compare Paul George or LaBron situations to football players.

[a06cc]

We'll during the Grigson Era they weren't doing enough. Colin isn't look at the film in the same light as some of us do. Luck hasn't exactly put the team in the best situations sometimes to succeed. He is aware of this as he'll take blame for mistakes he has made. Luck won't be going anywhere unless some dramatic happens. Ballard is starting to build a team that will help not hurt Luck

[BR-549]

1 minute ago, a06cc said:

We'll during the Grigson Era they weren't doing enough. Colin isn't look at the film in the same light as some of us do. Luck hasn't exactly put the team in the best situations sometimes to succeed. He is aware of this as he'll take blame for mistakes he has made. Luck won't be going anywhere unless some dramatic happens. Ballard is starting to build a team that will help not hurt Luck

Agree and not only that but Luck is intelligent enough to know it takes time to build chemistry and moving to another team doesn't always equate to wins.... if that is what he would theoretically be chasing.

[a06cc]

5 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

And you are right, can't compare Paul George or LaBron situations to football players.

LaBron lol LaBronda Queen James

[BullsColtsFan1]

I understand the franchise has to put pieces around a superstar player but the Colts just got a new GM.  Give him time.  Luck isn't the type of player so say, well I am not winning so trade me to a better team.  I like that aspect a lot about the NFL, that stuff rarely happens.  I am a big NBA guy and it happens all of the time in the NBA.  I sure hope Luck is the QB of the Colts until he retires. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Here is a question for everyone, ever since Deflategate happened can you guys show me 1 link or state anything good or positive that 1 person has said about the Colts on Fox, ESPN, and NFL Channel? If there is one I haven't seen it. The hate from the media toward Indianapolis since Deflatgate smells like rotten skunk if you ask me!

[superrep1967]

3 hours ago, BR-549 said:

Agree and not only that but Luck is intelligent enough to know it takes time to build chemistry and moving to another team doesn't always equate to wins.... if that is what he would theoretically be chasing.

The start of his career was wasted with inept GM. So it's going to take time for Ballard to clean it all up and Luck knows it. 

[NewColtsFan]

51 minutes ago, Dudley Smith said:

Did anyone catch Colin Cowherd's show today? A big part of his show today was about NBA free agents needing to get out of bad situations with teams that weren't doing enough to help them win now. One of the players that was discussed as needing to get the hell out of dodge was Paul George. After discussing this, Cowherd segued into a discussion of the NFL. He asked the question to the audience of why NFL players (specifically QBs) aren't following suit with NBA stars in demanding trades and/or not showing blind loyalty to the franchise that drafted them.

 

The question posed was general, however, Cowherd quickly made this segment specifically about Andrew Luck and the Colts. He stated that as far as he could tell, Andrew Luck's situation was the same as Paul George on the Pacers. Both on teams that weren't doing anything to help their respective star and both stuck in Indianapolis -- a city that doesn't attract any free agents. He said that Luck (and Aaron Rodgers -- who was sort of looped into the discussion) should be on the phone with his agent and looking around at other teams to go to.

 

I actually generally like Cowherd, but I thought this comparison to Paul George and the Pacers was very apples to oranges. For one, in the NFL, you really can't form "Superteams" like you can in the NBA these days. For one, the biggest stars are the QBs, and Luck, Rogers, and Brady aren't going to all play for the Patriots to win a ring because there is only one of them that can be a starter. In the NBA the players are much more interchangeable. Sure, you have five different positions, but the line between each of these is becoming more and more blurred in today's NBA. This is a huge difference from the NFL where you have 11 guys on each side of the ball that all are specialists in what they do. It makes it really hard to have the "best" at each position on the same team because there is so much ground to cover.

 

I also think there is a clear "culture" difference between the NBA and the NFL. I don't think players are looking for a cheap ring in the NFL like they are in the NBA. I also think this is part of the reason why the NBA ratings are taking a hit -- people are somewhat turned off by this "if you can't beat em join em" mentality in the NBA right now.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Right up front, I should say that I generally am an admirer of Colin Cowherd,  but I don't watch since he moved to Fox.       Not a fan of that network.

 

That said,  he's got things completely mixed up.     The systems in place for players in the two leagues are completely different.     The players hold all the cards in the NBA.     They can move around freely.

 

But in the NFL,  if Andrew Luck said he wanted out,  the Colts wouldn't have to honor that.    Why should they. He's got a big contract,  and no one is promised anything,  and football is a bigger team game than Basketball.    If Luck's contract were up,  the team could just slap a franchise tag on him for a year or two or three,  just as Washington has with Kirk Cousins.

 

Owners and teams have the power and leverage in the NFL.     This is not about Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers.      This is about how the leagues and the respective players unions run things. 

 

Completely different.

 

By the way,  unless something has changed,  Luck is Cowherd's favorite player.   Loves the guy.      If he's not 1st,  then he's likely in the top-5.

 

 

[BR-549]

5 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

The start of his career was wasted with inept GM. So it's going to time for Ballard to clean it all up and Luck knows it. 

Yep, I would think he is quite relieved now.... and aside from his recovery I would guess he is happy with the way things are going.

Has to be disheartening to lead your team in a comeback situation and finally take the lead in a game only to see the defense give the game back during the 2 min. warning.  (see Detroit game 2016, lol)

[BR-549]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Right up front, I should say that I generally am an admirer of Colin Cowherd,  but I don't watch since he moved to Fox.       Not a fan of that network.

 

That said,  he's got things completely mixed up.     The systems in place for players in the two leagues are completely different.     The players hold all the cards in the NBA.     They can move around freely.

 

But in the NFL,  if Andrew Luck said he wanted out,  the Colts wouldn't have to honor that.    Why should they. He's got a big contract,  and no one is promised anything,  and football is a bigger team game than Basketball.    If Luck's contract were up,  the team could just slap a franchise tag on him for a year or two or three,  just as Washington has with Kirk Cousins.

 

Owners and teams have the power and leverage in the NFL.     This is not about Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers.      This is about how the leagues and the respective players unions run things. 

 

Completely different.

 

Dead on NCF

[21isSuperman]

18 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Right up front, I should say that I generally am an admirer of Colin Cowherd,  but I don't watch since he moved to Fox.       Not a fan of that network.

 

That said,  he's got things completely mixed up.     The systems in place for players in the two leagues are completely different.     The players hold all the cards in the NBA.     They can move around freely.

 

But in the NFL,  if Andrew Luck said he wanted out,  the Colts wouldn't have to honor that.    Why should they. He's got a big contract,  and no one is promised anything,  and football is a bigger team game than Basketball.    If Luck's contract were up,  the team could just slap a franchise tag on him for a year or two or three,  just as Washington has with Kirk Cousins.

 

Owners and teams have the power and leverage in the NFL.     This is not about Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers.      This is about how the leagues and the respective players unions run things. 

 

Completely different.

 

By the way,  unless something has changed,  Luck is Cowherd's favorite player.   Loves the guy.      If he's not 1st,  then he's likely in the top-5.

Nailed it.  I like Cowherd, but when you really think about what he says, a lot of his analysis and thoughts are superficial.  In the NBA, there is no franchise tag.  Furthermore, one player can dominate whereas football is more team-oriented.  Not only that, but he's ignoring all of the work Ballard has been doing in Indy since he was hired.  Furthermore, it's silly to suggest the teams Luck and George have been on have always been horrible.  Both guys have made it to at least one conference championship.  The 2012-2014 Pacers were on of the NBA's best teams in those years.  I'm not saying the Colts have been perfect, but he's making it seem like Luck's situation is similar to that of Joe Thomas

[Steamboat_Shaun]

36 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

The start of his career was wasted with inept GM. So it's going to time for Ballard to clean it all up and Luck knows it. 

 

False. Only the past 2 years could really be viewed as a "waste." The 3 years prior to that, we went 11-5 and advanced a round deeper into the postseason each year. You know how many teams would kill for that type of so-called waste? Houston, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Oakland, both LA teams, Tennessee, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Miami... the list goes on and on.

[bananabucket]

The divas in the NBA are manipulating the league and ruining it in the process.

 

Cowherd wants that to start infecting the NFL as well?

 

Smh.

[BR-549]

45 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

False. Only the past 2 years could really be viewed as a "waste." The 3 years prior to that, we went 11-5 and advanced a round deeper into the postseason each year. You know how many teams would kill for that type of so-called waste? Houston, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Oakland, both LA teams, Tennessee, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Miami... the list goes on and on.

Just my guess, but I don't think he was referring to our success then but maybe our drafting and other management moves.  Could be wrong but that is how I took it.

[GoColts8818]

The NBA has a very different set of rules for free agents that gives players all the power.  In the NFL the franchise tag and none guaranteed contracts pretty much prevents players from doing things like NBA players do.  Sure once in a while you see a superstar force his way out to a new team but more times than not players play for the team that will give them the most money until that teams is unwilling to pay them anymore. 

 

As far as Andrew Luck he has little to no leverage.  He just signed a long time contract so he wont be a free agent anytime soon and even when he is the Colts can always franchise tag him up to three times before he would become a free agent.  So even if Andrew Luck did want out he's pretty much locked in for close to the next 10 years which will be the bulk of his career. 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

4 hours ago, BR-549 said:

Dead on NCF

He usually is ;)

 

[crazycolt1]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Here is a question for everyone, ever since Deflategate happened can you guys show me 1 link or state anything good or positive that 1 person has said about the Colts on Fox, ESPN, and NFL Channel? If there is one I haven't seen it. The hate from the media toward Indianapolis since Deflatgate smells like rotten skunk if you ask me!

I have been saying that for a long time. It really started before Deflatgate with ESPN's Michael Wilbon and his apparent hate of Jim Irsay. Deflatgate just brought all the rest to jump on board the hate wagon.

The Colts had the audacity to point out something against the media's darling team and their golden boy.

[NannyMcafee]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I have been saying that for a long time. It really started before Deflatgate with ESPN's Michael Wilbon and his apparent hate of Jim Irsay. Deflatgate just brought all the rest to jump on board the hate wagon.

The Colts had the audacity to point out something against the media's darling team and their golden boy.

 

Lol "how dare you point out the patriots cheating habits! The colts suck! What party poopers"

[lollygagger8]

Wait, people still watch the NBA?? 

[pgt_rob]

58 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Wait, people still watch the NBA?? 

 

Pretty boring in my opinion.

[MacDee1975]

Cowherd should have shut his mouth once he tried to compare the free agency systems that exist between the NBA and the NFL as being anywhere similar.  The 2 situations are absolutely nothing alike and you'd think he'd be smart enough to know that.  

[Dudley Smith]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Right up front, I should say that I generally am an admirer of Colin Cowherd,  but I don't watch since he moved to Fox.       Not a fan of that network.

 

That said,  he's got things completely mixed up.     The systems in place for players in the two leagues are completely different.     The players hold all the cards in the NBA.     They can move around freely.

 

But in the NFL,  if Andrew Luck said he wanted out,  the Colts wouldn't have to honor that.    Why should they. He's got a big contract,  and no one is promised anything,  and football is a bigger team game than Basketball.    If Luck's contract were up,  the team could just slap a franchise tag on him for a year or two or three,  just as Washington has with Kirk Cousins.

 

Owners and teams have the power and leverage in the NFL.     This is not about Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers.      This is about how the leagues and the respective players unions run things. 

 

Completely different.

 

By the way,  unless something has changed,  Luck is Cowherd's favorite player.   Loves the guy.      If he's not 1st,  then he's likely in the top-5.

 

 

 

Well said, NCF. And I agree that Cowherd is very high on Luck. I don't think he is necessarily high on the Colts as an organization, however. Some of that maybe fair in the wake of Grigson, but I do agree with others that he and other media members seem to really blow out of proportion how bad a place to live Indiana is. Especially a neat city like Indy. Free agents do seem to come to Indy pretty willingly in the NFL. Maybe not so much in the NBA with the Pacers, but that I think is due more to a franchise that has been a bit dysfunctional the last few seasons.

[Dudley Smith]

2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Wait, people still watch the NBA?? 

 

I do, although I have to admit when you know the two teams that will be in the finals barring major injuries before the season even starts it really starts to make it hard to stay interested.

[aaron11]

2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Wait, people still watch the NBA?? 

they do if they are in cleveland and oakland

 

no point for pacer fans

[dodsworth]

I would tend to agree with Cowhard if Grigson was still in charge but Luck is smart enough to see where the program is going under Ballard.

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, MacDee1975 said:

Cowherd should have shut his mouth once he tried to compare the free agency systems that exist between the NBA and the NFL as being anywhere similar.  The 2 situations are absolutely nothing alike and you'd think he'd be smart enough to know that.  

He probably is but he's a sports talk show host and he also probably knew this topic would get people talking and that's his job.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Wait, people still watch the NBA?? 

Yeah I unfortunately do, why I have no idea  

[NewEra]

NBA is such a joke I don't even watch that crap anymore. Overpaid pre madonnas. Bunch of cry baby, team stacking *.

[tikyle]

20 hours ago, Dudley Smith said:

I actually generally like Cowherd, but I thought this comparison to Paul George and the Pacers was very apples to oranges. For one, in the NFL, you really can't form "Superteams" like you can in the NBA these days.

 

I also think there is a clear "culture" difference between the NBA and the NFL. I don't think players are looking for a cheap ring in the NFL like they are in the NBA.

 

Honestly, no disrespect (this is where I am about to disrespect you) but that is one of the dumbest most naive statements I have read in a long time.

 

1.  The NFL can have super teams.  It actually does have super teams.  Denver was one, Seattle was one and New England is one right now.  The difference is the window those teams have to dominate and the injury factor.  In the NFL once you win a championship and guys who are on way below value contracts they want their money.  NFL stands for Not For Long and their window to monetize their talents are so much shorter and non-guaranteed vs the NBA.  If the NFL had guaranteed contracts you'd see many more "superteams" last longer than a year or two.

 

2. Culture difference?  Cheap ring?  First off define a 'cheap ring.'  Becuase last I checked you have to actually play and beat everyone to win a ring.  I know this is where you mention a LeBron or Durant but that is a foolish notion.  And 2nd off if you made a great deal of money you would have more security in taking less in order to win.  Just the utterance of cheap ring is an insult.  Is Brady's ring cheap from this past year because he took less to have more talent around him?  Was Revis ring cheap because he went to NE and won?  Was Deion's ring cheap in SF?  Was Manning's ring cheap hand picking a stacked DEN team?  Man the notion of a 'cheap ring' is a slap in the face to any professional.  Disgusting.

[Myles]

I'm surprised at 2 things.

First, that so many people like Cowturd.   I have never liked the guy.   He spends to much time patting himself on the back for the 30% where he is correct.   The other time he spends stating the complete obvious and states it in a way that makes it seem like he is smart.

 

Second, I'm surprised that he could even be this stupid.  

[tikyle]

3 hours ago, aaron11 said:

they do if they are in cleveland and oakland

 

no point for pacer fans

 

Boo hoo!  Why not demand your organization is run better.  It's not like those two always win or were always winners or are in locations that always gets the guy.  Ten years ago it was boo hoo the NBA is rigged the Lakers and Spurs always win.  Now it's two totally different franchises and it's still the boo hoo-ing.

 

These defeatist attitudes are silly.  I just don't understand why people don't do the same with the NFL?  The Colts sure aren't New England or Pittsburgh or Seattle.  Honestly the Colts have zero chance of winning the Superbowl in the next 2 years or so.  Why not give up too?

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

Honestly, no disrespect (this is where I am about to disrespect you) but that is one of the dumbest most naive statements I have read in a long time.

 

1.  The NFL can have super teams.  It actually does have super teams.  Denver was one, Seattle was one and New England is one right now.  The difference is the window those teams have to dominate and the injury factor.  In the NFL once you win a championship and guys who are on way below value contracts they want their money.  NFL stands for Not For Long and their window to monetize their talents are so much shorter and non-guaranteed vs the NBA.  If the NFL had guaranteed contracts you'd see many more "superteams" last longer than a year or two.

 

 

I think an NBA "super team" is much different than an NFL "super team".   In the NFL, scouting, drafts, free agents (both adding and letting go) and coaching plays a much bigger factor.   The Patriots are a "super team" because they are willing to let a guy go instead of paying him too much because they have a succession plan in place.  

[tikyle]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

I think an NBA "super team" is much different than an NFL "super team".   In the NFL, scouting, drafts, free agents (both adding and letting go) and coaching plays a much bigger factor.   The Patriots are a "super team" because they are willing to let a guy go instead of paying him too much because they have a succession plan in place.  

Honestly you are arguing semantics.  A super team is a super team.  Sure it's two different sports and two different systems but they are both a FA/draft/open market system with the only huge difference being salary cap and salary structure.

 

Everything you wrote about the Patriots applies to NBA teams.  Everything you would write about the Warriors would apply to NFL teams.  The Warriors had to draft well, draft prudent, not overspend on their guys, develop young talent, lure a superstar FA, have great coaching and a great culture, have great scouts, have a great GM, have an owner willing to fire a coach even though the team was on an upward trajectory, etc, etc

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

 

 

These defeatist attitudes are silly.  I just don't understand why people don't do the same with the NFL?  The Colts sure aren't New England or Pittsburgh or Seattle.  Honestly the Colts have zero chance of winning the Superbowl in the next 2 years or so.  Why not give up too?

I totally disagree with that.    The NFL is great because at the seasons start, any team can win it all.   It's not that much of a long shot.   Mostly because 1 or 2 players cannot guarantee a team will make the Championship game.   If the Colts defense can rank in the teens, they can make it happen.    Not putting my money on it, but in Vegas they are only 30-1 odds.   That is much more than zero.  Atlanta was 65/1 last year.

[Superman]

18 hours ago, bananabucket said:

The divas in the NBA are manipulating the league and ruining it in the process.

 

Cowherd wants that to start infecting the NFL as well?

 

Smh.

 

They aren't manipulating the league. Players leaving in free agency is a player's right. They can go play wherever they want. And the most irritating part of the NFL CBA, particularly for star level players, is the franchise tag, because it restricts that right dramatically. And, like NCF said already, that's really the reason why even star QBs don't have the kind of leverage that NBA players have.

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, tikyle said:

Honestly you are arguing semantics.  A super team is a super team.  Sure it's two different sports and two different systems but they are both a FA/draft/open market system with the only huge difference being salary cap and salary structure.

 

Everything you wrote about the Patriots applies to NBA teams.  Everything you would write about the Warriors would apply to NFL teams.  The Warriors had to draft well, draft prudent, not overspend on their guys, develop young talent, lure a superstar FA, have great coaching and a great culture, have great scouts, have a great GM, have an owner willing to fire a coach even though the team was on an upward trajectory, etc, etc

They are hardly the same at all.   Much easier to do in the NBA if you have an owner willing to spend extra.  Convincing 1 player to come to your team can be the difference.   The Warriors are an anomaly.  Drafting is much more important in the NFL.   

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

They aren't manipulating the league. Players leaving in free agency is a player's right. They can go play wherever they want. And the most irritating part of the NFL CBA, particularly for star level players, is the franchise tag, because it restricts that right dramatically. And, like NCF said already, that's really the reason why even star QBs don't have the kind of leverage that NBA players have.

All true.    It's just that I like how the NFL does it because I love watching NFL games.   I think the franchise tags is a good way to level the playing field against free agents just jumping ship.   

[tikyle]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

The NFL is great because at the seasons start, any team can win it all.

 

I vehemently disagree with this statement.  Now if you want to say the Colts have a average shot at winning it all I may agree somewhat even though I give them close to no shot unless major injuries derail a few teams.  But honestly in the NFL if you don't have an above average QB or an all time historical defense you are not winning it all.  I believe you can prove that through data.  And every team can't have an above average QB or all time historic defense so it kills that point.

 

My point is the Colts aren't close right now.  Could they go on a crazy hot run and get to the Superbowl?  Of course.  Is that likely staring at the likes of NE, KC, PIT and OAK?  No.