Come on PFF... this is crap.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

The team is better in every way compared to last year. But somehow they will have a worse record. Yaaa makes sense. 

[Smonroe]

4 hours ago, IndyD4U said:

Maybe it's just me, but my expectations are relatively low for THIS year. We have damn near turned over our entire roster and to expect them to play well as a unit is asking a lot

 

I felt the exact same way in 2012.  Never expected a winning record, much less a playoff team.

 

I know it's too early to say it, but the roster turnover all looks like it's for the better IMHO.

 

What we have to remember is that all the teams in our division improved also.  Luckily, two of them still have questions at the most important position.

[life long]

Agreed, with both prior poster's.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

If we were playing the Steelers in Pittsburgh, then I would consider that a guaranteed loss, but we have the Steelers at home.  So I don't see any guaranteed losses on our schedule.  We've got the Browns, 49ers, and Jags at home.  I'd like to chalk those up as wins.

 

Worst case scenario, injuries decimate us and it's 6-10 or 7-9.  Best case, we stay healthy all year, win 13+ games and make some noise in the playoffs.  I could see 14-2 with losses in Seattle and at home to Pittsburgh.

 

It will probably be something in the middle like 10-6 or 11-5 and a playoff loss to the Steelers or NE.  

[BR-549]

28 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

If we were playing the Steelers in Pittsburgh, then I would consider that a guaranteed loss, but we have the Steelers at home.  So I don't see any guaranteed losses on our schedule.  We've got the Browns, 49ers, and Jags at home.  I'd like to chalk those up as wins.

 

Worst case scenario, injuries decimate us and it's 6-10 or 7-9.  Best case, we stay healthy all year, win 13+ games and make some noise in the playoffs.  I could see 14-2 with losses in Seattle and at home to Pittsburgh.

 

It will probably be something in the middle like 10-6 or 11-5 and a playoff loss to the Steelers or NE.  

I liked your thoughts up to the last part of the last sentence... but you are probably right.  That book has been written so many times over the past 15 years... I almost know it by heart. 

[Buck Showalter]

1 hour ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

If we were playing the Steelers in Pittsburgh, then I would consider that a guaranteed loss, but we have the Steelers at home.  So I don't see any guaranteed losses on our schedule.  We've got the Browns, 49ers, and Jags at home.  I'd like to chalk those up as wins.

 

Worst case scenario, injuries decimate us and it's 6-10 or 7-9.  Best case, we stay healthy all year, win 13+ games and make some noise in the playoffs.  I could see 14-2 with losses in Seattle and at home to Pittsburgh.

 

It will probably be something in the middle like 10-6 or 11-5 and a playoff loss to the Steelers or NE.  

At some point in time this team will get that monkey off their back...

[Dingus McGirt]

1 hour ago, Majin Vegeta said:

The team is better in every way compared to last year. But somehow they will have a worse record. Yaaa makes sense. 

Stranger things have happened. 

 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

35 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

I liked your thoughts up to the last part of the last sentence... but you are probably right.  That book has been written so many times over the past 15 years... I almost know it by heart. 

 

Just now, Buck Showalter said:

At some point in time this team will get that monkey off their back...

 

If we find a way to get to the playoffs, then beat the Raiders, Steelers and Patriots (best QBs in AFC for the D to prove itself), then beat whoever the NFC has to offer, GB, DAL, or SEA (best D in NFC for Luck to prove himself)... anything is possible.  

 

I'm optimistic.  We did it in '06.  We just need to get to the playoffs, then play our best football.  

I'm just being realistic.  We might not even make the playoffs this year, especially if the injury bug strikes.  And if we do get to the playoffs, I'm sure the road will go through Pittsburgh or NE.  

[BR-549]

2 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

 

If we find a way to get to the playoffs, then beat the Raiders, Steelers and Patriots (best QBs in AFC for the D to prove itself), then beat whoever the NFC has to offer, GB, DAL, or SEA (best D in NFC for Luck to prove himself)... anything is possible.  

 

I'm optimistic.  We did it in '06.  We just need to get to the playoffs, then play our best football.  

I'm just being realistic.  We might not even make the playoffs this year, especially if the injury bug strikes.  And if we do get to the playoffs, I'm sure the road will go through Pittsburgh or NE.  

True, but I am not so naive as to think we are at that level yet.  BUT I do think we should be better than what people are predicting.  Hell, even people from Noblesville can see that. (just kidding )

 

Like Buck said, our day will come when NE and Pitt are not in our way anymore.  Big Ben is already thinking of retirement and Brady can't play forever... I don't think ... hmmm   

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

True, but I am not so naive as to think we are at that level yet.  BUT I do think we should be better than what people are predicting.  Hell, even people from Noblesville can see that. (just kidding )

 

Like Buck said, our day will come when NE and Pitt are not in our way anymore.  Big Ben is already thinking of retirement and Brady can't play forever... I don't think ... hmmm   

 

I just want to get the monkey off our back, like Buck said.  Take down Big Ben and Brady one more time on the way to a title...  

[BR-549]

Just now, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I just want to get the monkey off our back, like Buck said.  Take down Big Ben and Brady one more time on the way to a title...  

Me too....  would be awesome

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 hour ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Stranger things have happened. 

 

Andrew has never had a losing season. He's finally going to have the same 5 O-linemen starting again that he ended the year with. 2nd year with the OC.  The defense will be improved(who knows how much, but it will be better) And the schedule isn't particularly hard. 

[BR-549]

1 hour ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Andrew has never had a losing season. He's finally going to have the same 5 O-linemen starting again that he ended the year with. 2nd year with the OC.  The defense will be improved(who knows how much, but it will be better) And the schedule isn't particularly hard. 

Exactly, just don't see a worse year... barring major injuries.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

 

[BR-549]

11 hours ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

 

lol

Always had to read from the prompter ..... 

[Smonroe]

15 hours ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Andrew has never had a losing season. He's finally going to have the same 5 O-linemen starting again that he ended the year with. 2nd year with the OC.  The defense will be improved(who knows how much, but it will be better) And the schedule isn't particularly hard. 

 

The division should improve, on paper all the teams have gotten better.  Just like we've only gotten better on paper until we prove it.  It still comes down to QB play.  

 

It's interesting to me that the opposing team with the best QB, Tenn, gave us the least problems last year.  We matched up very well against them. 

[ReMeDy]

Every season someone says the Jags or Titans will do well or that it will be their "comeback season" or something, and they NEVER end up doing well.

[southwest1]

Actually, I like the headline of the article: 'PFF projects Colts to have losing record in 2017.'

 

Because when broadcasters & pundits diss us or don't expect us to do much, that's usually when INDY surprises people. Let Tennessee get all the AFC South media darling love & accolades. I like it better that way. 

[southwest1]

On June 21, 2017 at 10:26 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Nah, we will go 6-10, you know why? Heath Evans says so  

LOL! He does have a serious man crush on BB & Sean Payton doesn't he? 

On June 22, 2017 at 9:52 AM, life long said:

Bulletin board material for TC. We seem to have plenty. I am fine going into the season as an underdog. Few are picking the colts to do well, besides some of us lol. Anything could happen, even a SB..... we will just have to wait and see.

 

 

Plus the pff article still has us finishing ahead of the texans and jags. I think that is our floor. I dont see the titans being as great as the pundits think.

Exactly, nobody else believes in us but us & that will never change. Precisely, what have the Titans done under the Mariota era regarding banners or hardware? Absolutely nothing. 

On June 22, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Buck Showalter said:

At some point in time this team will get that monkey off their back...

We will never beat Pittsburgh in the Pagano era as long as Big Ben is there & the same goes for NE under Brady. Chuck has no idea how to be competitive against elite AFC teams. 

[Buck Showalter]

4 hours ago, southwest1 said:

We will never beat Pittsburgh in the Pagano era as long as Big Ben is there & the same goes for NE under Brady. Chuck has no idea how to be competitive against elite AFC teams. 

I hope that the Colts players, trainers, coaches, & front office don't hold your same level of optimism...

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Buck Showalter said:

I hope that the Colts players, trainers, coaches, & front office don't hold your same level of optimism...

Not about optimism, it's about talent, hard work, and production. Right now, we don't have enough of the 3 to get the job done. The NFL isn't a slot machine where you hope to get lucky and hit a jackpot. It's about hard work at the position you play or the job you have to outstrategize the other team and outplay them. Right now, the team says they need to work on things, then they go out and do the exact same thing next week (a slow start), fall behind and have to make a comeback. Rinse, repeat next week. Tired of hearing the same old talk, I want to see them back up that talk and tell the truth. If something else fails, at least it was an adjustment, but there's no adjustments, just consistent mistakes. I don't trust anything Pagano or Luck says until it actually happens right now, and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same.

[MackAttack]

honestly as a die hard colts fan i'm kind of stuck between a rock and hard place between wanting us to have a good season and a bad season. I want us to do pretty badly so pagano could get fired with no problems for Ballard and i'd love for us to have a high draft pick to work with. But I'm also so sick of hearing people talk % about the Colts I'd love for us to go out and shut everyone up and have Andrew end up top 20 in the top 100 and be respected like he should be. I'm just so curious as to what's gonna happen  

[Yoshinator]

17 minutes ago, Zalazar Elijahh said:

honestly as a die hard colts fan i'm kind of stuck between a rock and hard place between wanting us to have a good season and a bad season. I want us to do pretty badly so pagano could get fired with no problems for Ballard and i'd love for us to have a high draft pick to work with. But I'm also so sick of hearing people talk % about the Colts I'd love for us to go out and shut everyone up and have Andrew end up top 20 in the top 100 and be respected like he should be. I'm just so curious as to what's gonna happen  

9 out of 10 times we should hope to do well. This year is the exception. We have to get rid of Pagano. Chris Ballard has to get his own coaching staff, and we could use a very high draft to put one more great draft class around Luck and the Colts to fill in the pass rush and defense more and be possible contenders next year. A lot of our rookies and FA's will hit, but some won't. This should be a year for evaluating what we have and what we don't, along with getting Luck fully healthy. Once that happens and we add a new coach and draft class, we'll have a shot at being contenders next year. As of now, we are stuck in neutral though.

[MackAttack]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

9 out of 10 times we should hope to do well. This year is the exception. We have to get rid of Pagano. Chris Ballard has to get his own coaching staff, and we could use a very high draft to put one more great draft class around Luck and the Colts to fill in the pass rush and defense more and be possible contenders next year. A lot of our rookies and FA's will hit, but some won't. This should be a year for evaluating what we have and what we don't, along with getting Luck fully healthy. Once that happens and we add a new coach and draft class, we'll have a shot at being contenders next year. As of now, we are stuck in neutral though.

Yeah my thoughts exactly. I mean Ballard has said it a lot since the first day he got hired "it takes time to put a team together a locker room together and build something." One offseason isn't gonna do it this year is a prove it year for everyone and afterwards there will be a lot of evaluating and I personally don't think Pagano will be back next year and our new coach might need some time too. This will take time but the message I think is it will be worth the wait.

[Buck Showalter]

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Not about optimism, it's about talent, hard work, and production. Right now, we don't have enough of the 3 to get the job done. The NFL isn't a slot machine where you hope to get lucky and hit a jackpot. It's about hard work at the position you play or the job you have to outstrategize the other team and outplay them. Right now, the team says they need to work on things, then they go out and do the exact same thing next week (a slow start), fall behind and have to make a comeback. Rinse, repeat next week. Tired of hearing the same old talk, I want to see them back up that talk and tell the truth. If something else fails, at least it was an adjustment, but there's no adjustments, just consistent mistakes. I don't trust anything Pagano or Luck says until it actually happens right now, and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same.

I don't necessarily disagree with much of yout post, however, the factor that isn't being considered here, & what I was addressing in my simple response that you quoted was confidence...

 

I initially stated that, I have the belief that, the Colts will eventually get the NE/Pitts monkey off of their backs, maybe not this year, but at some point. It was just a simple statement &@southwest1 responded that basically Pagano would never be able to beat Pitts or NE. So my retort was in direct response to that line of thinking. If the Colts aren't moving forward, practicing, game-planning, etc, & doing so with a level of confidence, then right, they won't be able to beat any elite teams, or many mediocre teams at that. 

 

Now none of that is to say you don't work as hard as possible, or develop sound game plans, & develop as much as humanly possible, of course you work as hard as you can. However, I would hope the Colts are doing so with a bit of a chip on their shoulder, and developing a positive culture where they believe they can go toe to toe against any team in the league. Along with that belief, of course I would hope they put the work and preparation in to be able to do so...

 

 

[Swan Ronson]

Surely the Broncos are/were an elite AFC team. 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Swan Ronson said:

Surely the Broncos are/were an elite AFC team. 

The Broncos were an elite AFC team, and while that playoff victory over them was beneficial at the time, the hard truth now is that beating the Broncos will have little effect on our playoff status. They probably aren't making the playoffs this year unless their QBs step up in a major way. The 3 teams that will determine our status in the AFC TODAY are the Pats, Steelers, and the Raiders. If we find a way to play them hard and beat them sometimes, we'll be in the hunt. The simple fact is that we are batting .000 against them though, and we will forever be on the outside looking in until that changes.

[Swan Ronson]

So it's not true that Pagano has no idea how to be competitive against elite AFC teams.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Swan Ronson said:

So it's not true that Pagano has no idea how to be competitive against elite AFC teams.

Against the 3 that matter, he has no idea how to be competitive. We could occasionally beat a team like the Ravens, Chiefs, or Texans (if Luck is healthy), but even these are 40%-50% chances right now. The odds against the Pats, Steelers, and Raiders who will ultimately be in our way when we are good enough to challenge for the SB is almost 0% with Pagano. In fact, he is 0% vs the Pats and Steelers, and I believe 0% against the Raiders with Carr as QB. Something has to change, and we'll never build the AFC Pro Bowl team on the Colts for Pagano to coach against these teams.

 

P.S. Next time, quote me when talking to me, it helps me know you are replying to me instead of having to read and guess.

[Swan Ronson]

It was explicitly stated that he has no idea how to be competitive against elite AFC teams which is demonstrably untrue.

 

That is all.

 

 

[MackAttack]

Just now, Swan Ronson said:

It was explicitly stated that he has no idea how to be competitive against elite AFC teams which is demonstrably untrue.

 

That is all.

 

 

[southwest1]

14 hours ago, Buck Showalter said:

I don't necessarily disagree with much of yout post, however, the factor that isn't being considered here, & what I was addressing in my simple response that you quoted was confidence...

 

I initially stated that, I have the belief that, the Colts will eventually get the NE/Pitts monkey off of their backs, maybe not this year, but at some point. It was just a simple statement &@southwest1 responded that basically Pagano would never be able to beat Pitts or NE. So my retort was in direct response to that line of thinking. If the Colts aren't moving forward, practicing, game-planning, etc, & doing so with a level of confidence, then right, they won't be able to beat any elite teams, or many mediocre teams at that. 

 

Now none of that is to say you don't work as hard as possible, or develop sound game plans, & develop as much as humanly possible, of course you work as hard as you can. However, I would hope the Colts are doing so with a bit of a chip on their shoulder, and developing a positive culture where they believe they can go toe to toe against any team in the league. Along with that belief, of course I would hope they put the work and preparation in to be able to do so...

 

 

Actually Buck, 

 

My line of thinking is how long do we wait for Pagano to do something he's never shown the ability to do against Pittsburgh or NE? I'm not even demanding wins perse just respectable, non humiliating losses. 5 more yrs? 10 more yrs? 20? 

 

It's a leadership question not a drive or practice question in my mind. We have played well against the Bengals & Broncos in the past. 2 teams with a good running game & stout defenses. Look, I realize that in the Pagano era our defense hasn't exactly smothered or intimated anybody. However, can't Chuck make his presence known since he coached a 2 time SB Champion soon to be HOF LB in Ray Lewis back in Baltimore? Or was it that defense that elevated him instead of the other way around? Great coaches excel at teaching no matter where they are & I expect your calling card [what got you hired in the 1st place to always shine or come to the forefront.]

[Buck Showalter]

59 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Actually Buck, 

 

My line of thinking is how long do we wait for Pagano to do something he's never shown the ability to do against Pittsburgh or NE? I'm not even demanding wins perse just respectable, non humiliating losses. 5 more yrs? 10 more yrs? 20? 

 

It's a leadership question not a drive or practice question in my mind. We have played well against the Bengals & Broncos in the past. 2 teams with a good running game & stout defenses. Look, I realize that in the Pagano era our defense hasn't exactly smothered or intimated anybody. However, can't Chuck make his presence known since he coached a 2 time SB Champion soon to be HOF LB in Ray Lewis back in Baltimore? Or was it that defense that elevated him instead of the other way around? Great coaches excel at teaching no matter where they are & I expect your calling card [what got you hired in the 1st place to always shine or come to the forefront.]

That's all fine & good, & I understand the arguments for & against Chuck. They've been covered ad nauseum on this forum for awhile now. However, the point stands that Chuck is being given one more chance to show what he can do when out from under Grigsons shadow, so with that understanding why bemoan him the chance. It is the scenario for this next season so why gripe on it further. 

Chuck may not be the best coach in the league, but the fact stands, and has been made in some other current threads, that there aren't many coaches currently that are far and away, heads & shoulders better than Pagano. There may be a handful at the most, but especially none that were obvious choices available this past off season.

 

So we have our scenario established for the 2017-18 season. It may very well be a lame-duck situation by design and the plan is to see how the chips fall & then proceed with Ballard getting his guy/guys after this season. However, in the meanwhile, accepting the situation at hand, I plan on proceeding with optimism, as I do every season, maintaining the 'Any Given Sunday' outlook, vis-à-vis, any team has a fighting chance against anyone else in this league if the proper work & planning are put forth & in some cases if the stars are in proper alignment....

[southwest1]

15 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

That's all fine & good, & I understand the arguments for & against Chuck. They've been covered ad nauseum on this forum for awhile now. However, the point stands that Chuck is being given one more chance to show what he can do when out from under Grigsons shadow, so with that understanding why bemoan him the chance. It is the scenario for this next season so why gripe on it further. 

Chuck may not be the best coach in the league, but the fact stands, and has been made in some other current threads, that there aren't many coaches currently that are far and away, heads & shoulders better than Pagano. There may be a handful at the most, but especially none that were obvious choices available this past off season.

 

So we have our scenario established for the 2017-18 season. It may very well be a lame-duck situation by design and the plan is to see how the chips fall & then proceed with Ballard getting his guy/guys after this season. However, in the meanwhile, accepting the situation at hand, I plan on proceeding with optimism, as I do every season, maintaining the 'Any Given Sunday' outlook, vis-à-vis, any team has a fighting chance against anyone else in this league if the proper work & planning are put forth & in some cases if the stars are in proper alignment....

Yeah, you're right both pro & anti Pagano arguments have been made for quite some time now. I just have never liked the argument "Well, who else is out there with compatible experience? I realize you didn't lead this keep Pagano mindset yourself & it is true that INDY did get to an AFC Championship game versus the Patriots. All that is true.

 

However, the best available coach attitude is like saying "Hey, this woman actually slept with me in the Biblical sense so I guess that means I must marry her & walk down the aisle with her for the longterm future now." Wait. What? So, no one else can sniff a SB then or maybe win one. Therefore changing course would be a huge mistake. I don't know about that. I am not tying you specifically to this point of view Buck. I'm just saying the who else is available argument is darning with faint praise & not exactly a ringing or resounding seal of approval to me. Yes, if we go in a different direction next season we could go thru some growing pains or we could improve by leaps & bounds with new vigor & new leadership at the helm. 

 

Will I actively root for the Colts to have a lackluster yr under Pagano? No, but I don't anticipate a miracle turnaround either. If Pagano defies the odds & let's say he goes 12-4 & gets knocked out of the playoffs. Do we retain his services? How much weight would we attach to these results? A lucky blip or an ongoing trend of future success? I'd give Chuck another yr & if he does it again with a playoff appearance; we can talk about another extended deal not before. 

 

I just have a feeling that Pagano will no longer be a Colt HC after this season honestly. Nice chatting with you Buck. 

[Jules]

I already said it last week but will say it again. I can for the first time ever say I genuinely feel any of the 4 AFC South teams could realistically win the division this coming season. ANY of the 4.......

 

And it's not even out of question that the South could send two to the playoffs, it's been a while since that happened so lets say it's due to happen again.

[Jules]

 

21 hours ago, Zalazar Elijahh said:

honestly as a die hard colts fan i'm kind of stuck between a rock and hard place between wanting us to have a good season and a bad season. I want us to do pretty badly so pagano could get fired with no problems for Ballard and i'd love for us to have a high draft pick to work with. But I'm also so sick of hearing people talk % about the Colts I'd love for us to go out and shut everyone up and have Andrew end up top 20 in the top 100 and be respected like he should be. I'm just so curious as to what's gonna happen  

 

Root for us to have a good season. It's a lot more fun that way and it makes forum life A LOT more bearable. 

[MackAttack]

Just now, Jules said:

 

 

Root for us to have a good season. It's a lot more fun that way and it makes forum life A LOT more bearable. 

it's kind of a win win though if we do have a bad season I won't be too upset and if we have a great season then that's awesome. unless we keep our coach and get like a late 20s pick cuz I mean we'd still get value but not as much maybe as a top 10 pick obviously. it's not as simple as just want a good season not this year. even though I always want the Colts to kick butt

[Buck Showalter]

To channel my inner Herm...

 

"You play to win the game!"

[aaron11]

no one is going to rate this defense highly until they prove they can play well together on the field

 

too many rookies and new players

[BloodyChamp]

7-9 is possible. When I read "losing record" I thought 2-14 or something. Even if the Colts stink they'll be around 8 games. Although not as strong as before, there's still sort of a blessing (curse if you're the other teams) that the Colts have when it comes to the division. They seemingly try to give the Colts games and the Colts manage to take most of them. I don't know how they don't win 8 games as long as Luck's internal body parts don't get lacerated like that year they didn't.