What level of production do you expect from Jabaal Sheard?

[Colt Overseas]

Signed the guy for 3yr/25.5mil, he is going to have a cap hit of 10mil in 2017. That makes him about the 8th highest paid 3-4OLB according to Over the Cap.

 

His most productive seasons so far has seen him get a 8.5 sacks in his first year, and 8 sacks two years ago from the Pats.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/jabaalsheard/2495228/profile

 

I think the contract is a bit inflated to be honest, we are paying the guy double digit sack to type money, something he has yet to do.

 

That said I watched him closely in SB51 and I thought he was very disruptive off the edge. He only got half a sack, but he had another one, only for him to lose his grip of Matt Ryan from his momentum around the edge. He is big and physical and a good 3-4 OLB fit for us. He is going to start and be on the field for alot of snaps, so I think he will just about break the 10 sack mark this year. I also expect himself and Simon to set a solid edge for us this year.

 

Long term though, I see the Colts drafting an OLB in rounds 1 or 2 next year, with who ever that player is, rotating with Sheard and Basham.

 

 

[AZColt11]

20 sacks!  Hey you never know.

[Lawrence Owen]

I think he is an average rusher,...8-11 sacks/season.  I also think we WAY overpaid for him.  I like the John Simon signing a LOT better.  Perhaps about the same production rushing the QB.  But he set's an edge well, and tackles with authority.  And 3 years/ 13 mil is a better deal IMO.

[thatonefan]

That's what's great about Ballard's contracts-if he fails after 1 year, there's almost no dead money. He took advantage of a nice amount of cap space by frontloading contracts and leaving the future open.

[thatonefan]

Also I think he gets 7-8 sacks 

[backshoulderfade]

23 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

I think he is an average rusher,...8-11 sacks/season.  I also think we WAY overpaid for him.  I like the John Simon signing a LOT better.  Perhaps about the same production rushing the QB.  But he set's an edge well, and tackles with authority.  And 3 years/ 13 mil is a better deal IMO.

8 mill per year for 8-11 sacks is decent value.

[akcolt]

1 hour ago, Lawrence Owen said:

I think he is an average rusher,...8-11 sacks/season.  I also think we WAY overpaid for him.  I like the John Simon signing a LOT better.  Perhaps about the same production rushing the QB.  But he set's an edge well, and tackles with authority.  And 3 years/ 13 mil is a better deal IMO.

Of course we overpaid. We signed an established Edge in FA. Did you get a look at the LB's on our roster? There wasn't a guy who should be starting under contract. We had to bring in FA's so Ballard went out and signed the two best Edge players to change teams on the market.  As another poster pointed out Ballard handed out team friendly deals. We basically signed guys to 1 year deals w/team opton. You guys are crying that we overpaid? 

 

There is a reason why Sheard commanded a larger contract than Simon. These guys weren't paid according to Ballard's projections. Sheard had success as a starter and the fact he began the year as the starter for the SB champs didn't hurt his wallet. He sets the edge just fine. 

 

I really like Simon's upside too. I think he's going to have a breakout season. He has never been a full time starter so he didn't command as much money simple as that. 

 

I think Sheard will give us 8-10 sacks this season. We needed to sign to starters and that's what we did. I don't have a problem with Sheard's contract. If he doesn't earn the money or we dump at the end of the year. I'm not sure we how we could have addressed that position better than signing the best available players. 

[MacDee1975]

Why do you all care so much what people are getting paid?  Is it coming out of your pockets?

 

Colts are well under the cap.  Thats all that matters.  This splitting hairs over a guy making 1 million more per year than *you* think he should is irrelevant and bizarre.

 

[crazycolt1]

38 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

Why do you all care so much what people are getting paid?  Is it coming out of your pockets?

 

Colts are well under the cap.  Thats all that matters.  This splitting hairs over a guy making 1 million more per year than *you* think he should is irrelevant and bizarre.

 

I agree with your comment 100%.

I do have to give credit to the Colts with their managing their cap space very well since Grigson was hired. Even though he is no longer with us I think his handling of the cap maybe put a bug in Irsay's ear and he might not be so quick to sign off a player he thought to be over paid. After what shape this team was in after Polian and son were fired I just feel Irsay wont let that happen again.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I don't understand the obsession of fans with players contracts. It's like they would rather sign a average/slightly below average player with a modest contract instead of signing a good player and maybe slightly over paying him.

 

It's like the cap space is more important than the quality of the roster, lol.

[bababooey]

2 hours ago, Lawrence Owen said:

I think he is an average rusher,...8-11 sacks/season.  I also think we WAY overpaid for him.  I like the John Simon signing a LOT better.  Perhaps about the same production rushing the QB.  But he set's an edge well, and tackles with authority.  And 3 years/ 13 mil is a better deal IMO.

I respectfully disagree about overpaying for him. He had 13 sacks in 2 seasons as a rotational piece in New England after being a 3 year starter in Cleveland. 3 years, 25 mil. Miami just gave a 3 year 27 mil deal to Andre Branch who did very little in Jacksonville and then had a decent half year last year playing alongside Suh and Wake.

 

The difference is the guarantees, all of which are this year. If he doesn't do well we can get rid of him and it was 9.9 mil guaranteed. Miami owes Branch 16.8 guaranteed. We got the better player and more flexibility at a fraction of the cost.

[Lawrence Owen]

1 hour ago, MacDee1975 said:

Why do you all care so much what people are getting paid?  Is it coming out of your pockets?

 

Colts are well under the cap.  Thats all that matters.  This splitting hairs over a guy making 1 million more per year than *you* think he should is irrelevant and bizarre.

 

I get what you're saying.  I just think we got at least an equal, if not better, player in Simon, for about 1/2 the $$.   And being there really was not any 'top end' pass rushers on the open market, i understand why Sheard was payed the way he was.  (doesn't mean i like it though)

I understand we were in NEED of a pass rusher.  WE drafted a potential, and signed 2 in FA.  And i think with the D-line we have now, we should be able to get more pressure on QB's and clog running lanes much better.

Overall, i am very excited over the 'potential' we have on defense.  But i'm not getting too hyped before they even play a snap.

[Lawrence Owen]

13 minutes ago, bababooey said:

I respectfully disagree about overpaying for him. He had 13 sacks in 2 seasons as a rotational piece in New England after being a 3 year starter in Cleveland. 3 years, 25 mil. Miami just gave a 3 year 27 mil deal to Andre Branch who did very little in Jacksonville and then had a decent half year last year playing alongside Suh and Wake.

 

The difference is the guarantees, all of which are this year. If he doesn't do well we can get rid of him and it was 9.9 mil guaranteed. Miami owes Branch 16.8 guaranteed. We got the better player and more flexibility at a fraction of the cost.

Better player and all doesn't mean he is worth 9.5 mil this year.  Even if we do have the cap room.  We paid the higher $$ because we were desperate, and there was no top end rusher in FA.  But you're right, his contract allows us to part ways after this year if he doesn't work out.

[bababooey]

3 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Better player and all doesn't mean he is worth 9.5 mil this year.  Even if we do have the cap room.  We paid the higher $$ because we were desperate, and there was no top end rusher in FA.  But you're right, his contract allows us to part ways after this year if he doesn't work out.

The cap is rising every year, there was a market rate for rotational linebackers and we got a good deal for what it could have been. That's the difference between a well run organization like Ballard's and one throwing money at flashes in the pan who it hopes are multiyear solutions. The Branch deal Miami got is like the Toler or RJF deal Grigson handed out. Sheard and Simon were great deals.

[Albaby]

I think he will get around 10 (plus or minus 1) sacks this season.  Last year he was playing in a role that was being stiffled by dark hoody.  I think he will be given a little bit more freedom on the field this year.  This will improve his overall performance.

[That Guy]

I expect him to at least match Walden's production from last year.  Anything less will  label him a mistake in my eyes.

[aaron11]

we didnt over pay, thats just what free agent edge rushers cost

 

you wont find a better player for less money

[Smonroe]

5 minutes ago, That Guy said:

I expect him to at least match Walden's production from last year.  Anything less will  label him a mistake in my eyes.

 

Stats can be misleading.  Walden had a good year statwise, but we all know a bunch of his sacks were from coverage.  Teams also know, as he's not exactly tearing up the FA market.  

 

It's possible he won't have as many sacks as Walden, but be a much better player.  

[jameszeigler834]

3 hours ago, Lawrence Owen said:

I think he is an average rusher,...8-11 sacks/season.  I also think we WAY overpaid for him.  I like the John Simon signing a LOT better.  Perhaps about the same production rushing the QB.  But he set's an edge well, and tackles with authority.  And 3 years/ 13 mil is a better deal IMO.

I think he is a better version of Walden.

[aaron11]

18 minutes ago, That Guy said:

I expect him to at least match Walden's production from last year.  Anything less will  label him a mistake in my eyes.

that wont make it a mistake

 

we dont know if walden would have been any good this year, hes 32 in august.  not super old, but he cant afford to lose a step

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

I don't understand the obsession of fans with players contracts. It's like they would rather sign a average/slightly below average player with a modest contract instead of signing a good player and maybe slightly over paying him.

 

It's like the cap space is more important than the quality of the roster, lol.

 

I typically don't care about the contract...unless the player is a bad player. I care much more about value. And most of the contracts during the Grigs era were bad values...because the players weren't good. 

 

I agree that people overrate contract structure. Top tier players rarely sign low-risk, cap-friendly deals.

 

I am a huge fan of pillow contracts...and I think part of Grigs' failure was that he didn't utilize them enough. So I am very happy to see Ballard do this. But it's not like Ballard is some pioneer in his use of them.  

[superrep1967]

46 minutes ago, That Guy said:

I expect him to at least match Walden's production from last year.  Anything less will  label him a mistake in my eyes.

Yes, I totally agree!

[bababooey]

49 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I typically don't care about the contract...unless the player is a bad player. I care much more about value. And most of the contracts during the Grigs era were bad values...because the players weren't good. 

 

I agree that people overrate contract structure. Top tier players rarely sign low-risk, cap-friendly deals.

 

I am a huge fan of pillow contracts...and I think part of Grigs' failure was that he didn't utilize them enough. So I am very happy to see Ballard do this. But it's not like Ballard is some pioneer in his use of them.  

what's a pillow contract? just one that's front loaded and you can get out of quickly?

[Shive]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I agree with your comment 100%.

I do have to give credit to the Colts with their managing their cap space very well since Grigson was hired. Even though he is no longer with us I think his handling of the cap maybe put a bug in Irsay's ear and he might not be so quick to sign off a player he thought to be over paid. After what shape this team was in after Polian and son were fired I just feel Irsay wont let that happen again.

Mike Bluem, the Colts' "Capologist," was here during the Grigson era and is still here, which is why our salary cap management has been very consistent. With how well he manages the cap and structures contracts, I don't see him going anywhere, even with Ballard bringing in a lot of his guys.

[ProblChld32]

Im gonna say 7 sacks for him. I seem him more as a force in the run game but with the ability to get after the QB.

[akcolt]

1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

I typically don't care about the contract...unless the player is a bad player. I care much more about value. And most of the contracts during the Grigs era were bad values...because the players weren't good. 

 

I agree that people overrate contract structure. Top tier players rarely sign low-risk, cap-friendly deals.

 

I am a huge fan of pillow contracts...and I think part of Grigs' failure was that he didn't utilize them enough. So I am very happy to see Ballard do this. But it's not like Ballard is some pioneer in his use of them.  

Where did you see anyone call Ballard a pioneer? 

[Coltsfan0112]

I think he will get around 7-11 sacks but I also wouldn't be surprised is Sheard is gone after this year depending on his play. I think this will be a year that Basham can come in on 3rd downs while also develop to be a true 3 down OLB. Simon was a great signing IMO and see him playing out his contract

[southwest1]

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I do have to give credit to the Colts with their managing their cap space very well since Grigson was hired

This is the only thing I will Grigs credit for. Now, it's a big thing yes & he deserves credit for it. Okay, I do agree with krunk too when he said that Ryan did a decent job of drafting TEs & WRs in another thread recently. 

 

Mostly, I'm just relieved that I don't have to sit through Grigson's double speak press conferences anymore & I like that Ballard knows how to explain himself in an easy to follow manner. 

[southwest1]

6 hours ago, MacDee1975 said:

Why do you all care so much what people are getting paid?  Is it coming out of your pockets?

 

Colts are well under the cap.  Thats all that matters.  This splitting hairs over a guy making 1 million more per year than *you* think he should is irrelevant and bizarre.

 

Yeah, that's a good observation there MD75. I'm certainly no expert at salary cap stuff. 

 

As long as JS helps us make a deep playoffs run, that's all I give a crap about. 

 

The most perceptive posts are always the simplest grain of truth ones. Well said MD75. 

[NewColtsFan]

11 hours ago, Colt Overseas said:

Signed the guy for 3yr/25.5mil, he is going to have a cap hit of 10mil in 2017. That makes him about the 8th highest paid 3-4OLB according to Over the Cap.

 

His most productive seasons so far has seen him get a 8.5 sacks in his first year, and 8 sacks two years ago from the Pats.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/jabaalsheard/2495228/profile

 

I think the contract is a bit inflated to be honest, we are paying the guy double digit sack to type money, something he has yet to do.

 

That said I watched him closely in SB51 and I thought he was very disruptive off the edge. He only got half a sack, but he had another one, only for him to lose his grip of Matt Ryan from his momentum around the edge. He is big and physical and a good 3-4 OLB fit for us. He is going to start and be on the field for alot of snaps, so I think he will just about break the 10 sack mark this year. I also expect himself and Simon to set a solid edge for us this year.

 

Long term though, I see the Colts drafting an OLB in rounds 1 or 2 next year, with who ever that player is, rotating with Sheard and Basham.

 

 

 

we're paying him market level money....    he should get 7-9 sacks per season for the Colts.

 

He likely is NOT a double-digit sack guy and $8.5 Mill is not double digit sack money....   the market has gone up ...       double digit sack money gets 10 Mll per year...

 

Finally.....   yes,  I agree,  we should be drafting an OLB in the 2018 draft in either the first or 2nd round.    That should be an easy projection....

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, akcolt said:

Of course we overpaid. We signed an established Edge in FA. Did you get a look at the LB's on our roster? There wasn't a guy who should be starting under contract. We had to bring in FA's so Ballard went out and signed the two best Edge players to change teams on the market.  As another poster pointed out Ballard handed out team friendly deals. We basically signed guys to 1 year deals w/team opton. You guys are crying that we overpaid? 

 

There is a reason why Sheard commanded a larger contract than Simon. These guys weren't paid according to Ballard's projections. Sheard had success as a starter and the fact he began the year as the starter for the SB champs didn't hurt his wallet. He sets the edge just fine. 

 

I really like Simon's upside too. I think he's going to have a breakout season. He has never been a full time starter so he didn't command as much money simple as that. 

 

I think Sheard will give us 8-10 sacks this season. We needed to sign to starters and that's what we did. I don't have a problem with Sheard's contract. If he doesn't earn the money or we dump at the end of the year. I'm not sure we how we could have addressed that position better than signing the best available players. 

 

 

We didn't overpay for a single player....      I'm not sure why you think we did....

 

I think we paid market value or less for everyone.....

 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, southwest1 said:

This is the only thing I will Grigs credit for. Now, it's a big thing yes & he deserves credit for it. Okay, I do agree with krunk too when he said that Ryan did a decent job of drafting TEs & WRs in another thread recently. 

 

Mostly, I'm just relieved that I don't have to sit through Grigson's double speak press conferences anymore & I like that Ballard knows how to explain himself in an easy to follow manner. 

I know it's not a popular thing to give Grigson credit but it seems Ballard is happy with the O-line that Grigson brought in. IMO little too late but never the less they are still here.

I don't put too much in what GMs or coaches have to say because it's pretty much all coach speak anyway. If my memory serves me Polian didn't have anything that come close to communication with the media or anyone else for that matter.  

[crazycolt1]

5 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

I typically don't care about the contract...unless the player is a bad player. I care much more about value. And most of the contracts during the Grigs era were bad values...because the players weren't good. 

 

I agree that people overrate contract structure. Top tier players rarely sign low-risk, cap-friendly deals.

 

I am a huge fan of pillow contracts...and I think part of Grigs' failure was that he didn't utilize them enough. So I am very happy to see Ballard do this. But it's not like Ballard is some pioneer in his use of them.  

I must disagree with your assessment of Grigson and his signing of contracts. He helped take the Colts out of a 39 million dollar cap hades and signed team friendly contracts pretty much every one signed. There was just a couple that ended up not so great but those were players who ended up injured too much. That was kinda out of his control at the time. He signed a few band aid contracts just to fill roster spots as needed also.

Superman had a pretty good breakdown list of the players Grigson did sign and actually it was not bad at all.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

7 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

I don't understand the obsession of fans with players contracts. It's like they would rather sign a average/slightly below average player with a modest contract instead of signing a good player and maybe slightly over paying him.

 

It's like the cap space is more important than the quality of the roster, lol.

 

I don't get it either. It's Jim Irsay's money, not ours, so what's the big deal? We had a ton of cap space, figured out a way to sign 11 free agents, and still have ~$20mil leftover. From a big picture standpoint, that's absolutely killing it in free agency. I'm fine with it.

[southwest1]

41 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

If my memory serves me Polian didn't have anything that come close to communication with the media or anyone else for that matter.

While it is true that Bill sometimes upset the reporters covering the team because once in awhile he dismissed their questions & brought the conversation back like a boomerang to what he wanted to talk about or throw in a Bill Parcels quote [he lived for that I think]; a fan could always get relevant information from our HOF GM by reading "The Polian Corner' online even if Bill was evasive or short with the journalists covering him after the draft, in free agency, or during the regular season. 

 

That's the difference. You could miss all the press conferences Bill had, read that column, & you knew the direction of the Colts at any given moment. Grigson, on the other hand, not so much. 

[rock8591]

Excited for the size on our defense...

 

Simon a 6'1'' 260

Sheard at 6'3'' 265

 

Basically a 5-2 defense.

[shasta519]

6 hours ago, bababooey said:

what's a pillow contract? just one that's front loaded and you can get out of quickly?

 

It's a one-year deal designed to rebuild/increase a player's value...so they can secure a long-term deal.

[shasta519]

6 hours ago, akcolt said:

Where did you see anyone call Ballard a pioneer? 

 

Did I quote anybody?

[atapcl]

A lot will depend on the DEs and DTs. If they require double teams then I think Sheard will get his first season of double digit sacks.

[AZColt11]

I don't think it really matters how many sacks he gets, it's more how he impacts the game.  Getting pressures on the QB that force them into incompletions and turnovers counts just as much, as well as tackles for loss.  If he can do those things and get even 5-7 sacks it will be well worth it IMHO.