Touchy subject

[Valpo2004]

4 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

To those that wouldn't let your child play football, then why do you support the game by watching it?

 

As far as the OP's question, yes I do let a son play.  He actually has had more injuries when he played baseball than football.  I also have a son that doesn't play any sports and a daughter that likes to bungee jump and go rock climbing.  All three of their decisions are fine with me and realistically they are old enough now that they don't have to ask my permission.

 

2 things.

 

First of all I think it's fine to let adults who understand the risks play.  My child isn't an adult.

 

Secondly and most importantly, I enjoy the game of football, but I can't put that above the welfare of my kids.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

18 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Dangerous but not evil.  

 

Such dangers should only be born by adults who know and understand the risks.

 

I also wouldn't let my kids play football.  Not only is the concussions an issue but I've met too many people who have "old football injuries" from high school that still cause them problems a decade or more later.

 

I've never met anyone in my life who has an old basketball injury from 10 years ago still causing them problems.  Or an old baseball injury.  Or even an old soccer injury.

 

I love watching football but I can't put my love for the sport above my responsibilities as a parent which are to protect my children from obvious danger.  

 

It's not being overprotective to see a sport with such a high injury and concussion rate, one where part of the game involves two people running into one another at full speed and deciding. . . that sport is too dangerous for me to be comfortable with my kid playing that.  

 

I have a friend that played MLB on our high school football team.  He used to be a tough SOB.  Now he can't raise one arm to wash his hair in the shower.

 

He told me stories about what happened on the football field.  There were unintentional consequences, and there were very intentional consequences.  He said it was a regular practice to try to hurt players on the other team when there was a pileup to recover a fumble.  He said players from the other team bit him, grabbed his ankle and twisted, poked at his eyes through the facemask...

 

48 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Yet you support that evil dangerous game

 

14 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

To those that wouldn't let your child play football, then why do you support the game by watching it?

 

As far as the OP's question, yes I do let a son play.  He actually has had more injuries when he played baseball than football.  I also have a son that doesn't play any sports and a daughter that likes to bungee jump and go rock climbing.  All three of their decisions are fine with me and realistically they are old enough now that they don't have to ask my permission.

 

This sport inspires violence, which appeals to a primal urge in all of us.  It's a love/hate relationship.

[jvan1973]

27 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Dangerous but not evil.  

 

Such dangers should only be born by adults who know and understand the risks.

 

I also wouldn't let my kids play football.  Not only is the concussions an issue but I've met too many people who have "old football injuries" from high school that still cause them problems a decade or more later.

 

I've never met anyone in my life who has an old basketball injury from 10 years ago still causing them problems.  Or an old baseball injury.  Or even an old soccer injury.

 

I love watching football but I can't put my love for the sport above my responsibilities as a parent which are to protect my children from obvious danger.  

 

It's not being overprotective to see a sport with such a high injury and concussion rate, one where part of the game involves two people running into one another at full speed and deciding. . . that sport is too dangerous for me to be comfortable with my kid playing that.  

How about bicycles and trampolines?

[Lucky Colts Fan]

55 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You can't wrap your children in danger proof bubble wrap.  Far more serious injuries happen on trampolines and bicycles

 

18 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

To those that wouldn't let your child play football, then why do you support the game by watching it?

 

As far as the OP's question, yes I do let a son play.  He actually has had more injuries when he played baseball than football.  I also have a son that doesn't play any sports and a daughter that likes to bungee jump and go rock climbing.  All three of their decisions are fine with me and realistically they are old enough now that they don't have to ask my permission.

 

I have a friend that you could use as a perfect example.  He played DE in high school, great athlete, got a scholarship to play Div I.  One of the smartest guys I knew, had a very bright future.

 

He made it through his entire childhood playing every contact sport without any problems.  Then, while in college, he was in a car accident that left him paralyzed.  One of the saddest things I've ever experienced.  He used to joke that he was going to find the largest woman he could and make babies that would be legendary... Now a doctor has to be involved in the baby-making process if he wants to have kids...

 

Life is dangerous.  People can make all the right decisions, do all the right things, and still suffer.

[Valpo2004]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

How about bicycles and trampolines?

 

I wouldn't let my kids on a trampoline either.  

 

Bikes. . . the injury rate from riding a bike if you ride carefully is much lower then the injury rate from football.  Plus you can wear a helmet on a bike.  

 

Just about every kid rides a bike.  Sure some bad injuries could happen.  But it doesn't happen at near the rate of football. 

[jvan1973]

Just now, Valpo2004 said:

 

I wouldn't let my kids on a trampoline either.  

 

Bikes. . . the injury rate from riding a bike if you ride carefully is much lower then the injury rate from football.  Plus you can wear a helmet on a bike.  

 

Just about every kid rides a bike.  Sure some bad injuries could happen.  But it doesn't happen at near the rate of football. 

75 concussions occur per 100,000 high school football players.   That is an extremely low amount

 

 

http://www.headcasecompany.com/concussion_info/stats_on_concussions_sports

[Lucky Colts Fan]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

75 concussions occur per 100,000 high school football players.   That is an extremely low amount

 

 

http://www.headcasecompany.com/concussion_info/stats_on_concussions_sports

 

You know that's only what's reported.  There aren't league-appointed neurologists on the sidelines of high school football games.  I would speculate that the number of un-reported concussions in youth football is very high.

 

I got a concussion playing football in my yard, and guess what? It went un-reported.  But it was still a football-related concussion.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Nope just Soccer and Basketball. 

[Valpo2004]

22 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

You know that's only what's reported.  There aren't league-appointed neurologists on the sidelines of high school football games.  I would speculate that the number of un-reported concussions in youth football is very high.

 

I got a concussion playing football in my yard, and guess what? It went un-reported.  But it was still a football-related concussion.

 

Guy at work I know played HS football.  Wasn't aware he had a concussion til he arrived home, his sister turn the light on and the light made him puke.

 

That concussion was also unreported.  

 

Shoot they think a lot of times concussions are missed in NFL players.  And that has all the money and sensors and videos out there.  It's easy to see how they could be missed in HS players.

 

Plus the fact is that blows to the head that don't result in concussions cause damage over time.

[jvan1973]

22 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

You know that's only what's reported.  There aren't league-appointed neurologists on the sidelines of high school football games.  I would speculate that the number of un-reported concussions in youth football is very high.

 

I got a concussion playing football in my yard, and guess what? It went un-reported.  But it was still a football-related concussion.

Not if you weren't wearing the proper gear.   Youth sports are also teaching and enforcing heads up tackling.  

 

Also,  there are medical personnel at every game in high school.  In our little league there is a nurse at every game.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Not if you weren't wearing the proper gear.   Youth sports are also teaching and enforcing heads up tackling.  

 

Also,  there are medical personnel at every game in high school.  In our little league there is a nurse at every game.

 

Ok, maybe your community can afford that, but in many poor communities they don't have all the proper equipment, much less a competent medical professional on the sideline.  They make do with what they have, even if it means cheap used equipment and someones' mom that happens to be a nurse helping out.

 

And don't be naive, you know there are coaches out there that just go through the motions when going through "heads up" training, then go back to their team and coach the way they want to coach.

[MacDee1975]

40 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

75 concussions occur per 100,000 high school football players.   That is an extremely low amount

 

 

http://www.headcasecompany.com/concussion_info/stats_on_concussions_sports

 

The football related concussion rate for kids who don't play football is even lower.  Like zero percent.

[jvan1973]

6 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

The football related concussion rate for kids who don't play football is even lower.  Like zero percent.

So keep them inside to avoid any and all chances of danger

[jvan1973]

7 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Ok, maybe your community can afford that, but in many poor communities they don't have all the proper equipment, much less a competent medical professional on the sideline.  They make do with what they have, even if it means cheap used equipment and someones' mom that happens to be a nurse helping out.

 

And don't be naive, you know there are coaches out there that just go through the motions when going through "heads up" training, then go back to their team and coach the way they want to coach.

Not in actual insured leagues they don't.   I have coached little league football for three years.  We have to be recertified every year.   League personnel are always around watching practice and games

[Cynjin]

1 hour ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

2 things.

 

First of all I think it's fine to let adults who understand the risks play.  My child isn't an adult.

 

Secondly and most importantly, I enjoy the game of football, but I can't put that above the welfare of my kids.

 

1) My son wasn't an adult when he started playing football, neither was my daughter when she started climbing up rock faces.

 

2) You are fine with supporting a sport that puts other kids welfare at risk?

[Cynjin]

1 hour ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

 

 

This sport inspires violence, which appeals to a primal urge in all of us.  It's a love/hate relationship.

 

Not for me, not even close.

[Cynjin]

11 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

The football related concussion rate for kids who don't play football is even lower.  Like zero percent.

 

That's not true, unless you keep them in a bubble and don't let the do anything involving strenuous physical activity.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Not in actual insured leagues they don't.   I have coached little league football for three years.  We have to be recertified every year.   League personnel are always around watching practice and games

 

I'm just pointing out that rule-enforcement is going to be different depending on the community.

 

If you are from Indy, then you know laws are enforced a little differently in certain parts of the city compared to a community like Carmel, where Mr. Irsay lives...

 

This issue doesn't exist in a vacuum.  We're talking about humans, after all.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I'm just speaking from personal experience.  My best friend and I got into dirt-bikes as teenagers, and it only took one bad crash for both of us to gain some perspective.  When a friend died in a motorcycle accident, a lot of my friends just stopped riding altogether.  Like football, it's fun, but just not worth the risk.

 

It's ironic that our parents wouldn't let us play organized football because of the dangers, but let us ride dirt-bikes and play football in the yard.  No pads or helmets.  I actually got a concussion playing football with friends in the yard.

 

 

1 or 2 crashes would be all that it would take to turn me off to dirt biking. I honestly don't know how my buddies do it, they must not ever fall, because the older you get the more it hurts. Same goes for backyard football... once everyone's in their 'teens, it stops being fun real quick. 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

4 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Not for me, not even close.

 

Huh.  I'm very curious.  

 

You are here in these forums, so I assume you are a fan of football.  What, about football, appeals to you?

[jvan1973]

7 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I'm just pointing out that rule-enforcement is going to be different depending on the community.

 

If you are from Indy, then you know laws are enforced a little differently in certain parts of the city compared to a community like Carmel, where Mr. Irsay lives...

 

This issue doesn't exist in a vacuum.  We're talking about humans, after all.

That could be said of all things.    But the rules are in place

[Lucky Colts Fan]

1 minute ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

1 or 2 crashes would be all that it would take to turn me off to dirt biking. I honestly don't know how my buddies do it, they must not ever fall, because the older you get the more it hurts. Same goes for backyard football... once everyone's in their 'teens, it stops being fun real quick. 

 

My group of friends used to have this ritual.  Every year, we would meet in an old field early Thanksgiving morning and play tackle football for hours.  Then we would go home, shower, and eat our fill.

 

It was awesome.  But we had to stop.  We weren't even 30 years old yet, and the game had taken its' toll.

 

And that was just one day a year.  These athletes are doing this stuff year-round...

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

That could be said of all things.    But the rules are in place

 

Fair enough.  But you know that saying about what rules are meant for...

[crazycolt1]

59 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Not if you weren't wearing the proper gear.   Youth sports are also teaching and enforcing heads up tackling.  

 

Also,  there are medical personnel at every game in high school.  In our little league there is a nurse at every game.

I have been reading your comments and I have to disagree with most of it. There is not a doctor or nurse at every football game. Just the varsity games. The freshman and junior varsity games do not have medical personal on hand.

Having a helmet on does not protect you as much as you think as far as concussions are concerned. The brain still concusses itself within the helmet.

When my grandson received his life changing concussion he was wearing the most modern helmet known in the high school ranks.

Sorry Ivan, your attitude about football and the dangerous issues that come from football are way off.

Youth contact sports has been proved to be dangerous because the brain is not fully developed within the cranium. Matter of fact the cranium is not fully developed.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Not in actual insured leagues they don't.   I have coached little league football for three years.  We have to be recertified every year.   League personnel are always around watching practice and games

 

Sidenote - Thank you for being a responsible coach.  Thank you for taking the responsibility seriously.

 

Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  (one for each year of coaching)

 

Just realize that you are lucky to be part of what sounds like a responsible group of adults involved in their kids' sports lives.  Keep it up.

 

[jvan1973]

34 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I have been reading your comments and I have to disagree with most of it. There is not a doctor or nurse at every football game. Just the varsity games. The freshman and junior varsity games do not have medical personal on hand.

Having a helmet on does not protect you as much as you think as far as concussions are concerned. The brain still concusses itself within the helmet.

When my grandson received his life changing concussion he was wearing the most modern helmet known in the high school ranks.

Sorry Ivan, your attitude about football and the dangerous issues that come from football are way off.

Youth contact sports has been proved to be dangerous because the brain is not fully developed within the cranium. Matter of fact the cranium is not fully developed.

In elkhart Indiana,  every jr high game, jv game and varsity game there are medical personnel on hand.  In our little league,  there are nurses at every game.

 

Youth contract sports has not been proven to be anymore dangerous than riding a bike.

[jvan1973]

9 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Sidenote - Thank you for being a responsible coach.  Thank you for taking the responsibility seriously.

 

Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  (one for each year of coaching)

 

Just realize that you are lucky to be part of what sounds like a responsible group of adults involved in their kids' sports lives.  Keep it up.

 

We are pretty fortunate to have a very active little community.  This next year will be my last as my grandsons will be moving on to junior high.    Every coach in our league has a son or grandson on their team,  So we are all very conscious of teaching proper form ( which is far different now than when I played in the early 80's)

 

I love it

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

We are pretty fortunate to have a very active little community.  This next year will be my last as my grandsons will be moving on to junior high.    Every coach in our league has a son or grandson on their team,  So we are all very conscious of teaching proper form ( which is far different now than when I played in the early 80's)

 

I love it

Believe me you will change your mind when brain injury hits one you love or one of the kids of your coaches.

Notice I said when, not if.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

We are pretty fortunate to have a very active little community.  This next year will be my last as my grandsons will be moving on to junior high.    Every coach in our league has a son or grandson on their team,  So we are all very conscious of teaching proper form ( which is far different now than when I played in the early 80's)

 

I love it

 

I'm proud of you.  I have a feeling that you and your peers are the norm when it comes to volunteer coaches.

 

Unfortunately, when coaches start coaching for money, things get... hazy.  Lots of gray area when your livelihood is at stake, and it's based on winning, not the future health of your athletes.

 

I worked with a guy whose former profession was as a paid football head coach for high school and college programs.  Some of the stuff he told me sent shivers of unease down my spine.  Very uncomfortable listening to him talk about young men the way he did...

 

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Believe me you will change your mind when brain injury hits one you love or one of the kids of your coaches.

Notice I said when, not if.

I played all the way from pop warner through my senior year.  Played with a bunch of guys that did the same.  Played against a bunch that did the same.  Serious injury is very very rare.  I understand why you feel the way you do.  What happened to your grandson is terrible.  But serious injury is far less than one percent in high school and below

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I'm proud of you.  I have a feeling that you and your peers are the norm when it comes to volunteer coaches.

 

Unfortunately, when coaches start coaching for money, things get... hazy.  Lots of gray area when your livelihood is at stake, and it's based on winning, not the future health of your athletes.

 

I worked with a guy whose former profession was as a paid football head coach for high school and college programs.  Some of the stuff he told me sent shivers of unease down my spine.  Very uncomfortable listening to him talk about young men the way he did...

 

He isn't coaching for the right reasons then.  Most school coaches are also teachers.   For the most part,  coaching at that level isn't very lucrative.  I understand that at some of the big high schools it's a different story

[crazycolt1]

6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I played all the way from pop warner through my senior year.  Played with a bunch of guys that did the same.  Played against a bunch that did the same.  Serious injury is very very rare.  I understand why you feel the way you do.  What happened to your grandson is terrible.  But serious injury is far less than one percent in high school and below

Every brain trauma center I took my grandson too did not suffer from lack of patients.

 

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Every brain trauma center I took my grandson too did not suffer from lack of patients.

 

There are many ways to incur brain trauma.   Very few of them involve youth sports

[Lucky Colts Fan]

10 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He isn't coaching for the right reasons then.  Most school coaches are also teachers.   For the most part,  coaching at that level isn't very lucrative.  I understand that at some of the big high schools it's a different story

 

Well, there's definitely a reason he isn't coaching anymore.  But it still broke my heart that this guy spent 20+ years coaching high school and college athletes.

 

My point is that guys like him are out there, right now, coaching our children the wrong way.

[bababooey]

I am mixed on this. If them and their friends wanted to, sure I'd allow them. I played 4 years in high school and that was it. I made lifelong friends in both my teammates and coaches. I played OL/DL and was very lucky to have minimal injuries aside from a sore back that used to occasionally flare up.

 

On the other hand, my fiancee's brothers played from grade school through senior year of college (D3), they are twins who played D end together. Their knuckles/fingers are so messed up. Both have torn ACL's, significant ankle injuries, concussions, and significant shoulder injuries. I hope those injuries don't catch up with them down the road.

 

I'm all for the camaraderie, friendships, and life lessons you can get out of the sport but I wouldn't force them to play nor would I be mad if they didn't.

If they wanted to play football in high school like I would support them. However, if I had to pick a sports it would definitely be:

 

Wrestling-  contrary to popular belief, is very safe (one ref for two people who will stop the match the second he sees something unsafe). You also get exactly out of it what you put into it. It's great to be on a team but it's also an individual sport that you can excel in based on what you do, vs. being a great athlete wasting his career on a bad team. I had fun playing football but I was far more successful wrestling, both on and off the mat (grades got better and I was getting in much less trouble goofing off in school). Problems are is it's a 24/7 sport and making weight can be a personal hell for some people. Wrestling parents are also traveling and sitting in the bleachers for 10 hours every Saturday just to watch their kid be on the mat from anywhere from 5-25 minutes total.

 

Lacrosse- contact but fun sport, was my spring sport in high school that I didn't take as serious. Was a refreshing break from wrestling while I got my weight back. Great for making friendships and much safer than football. LOT of fun compared to baseball just standing in a field waiting for something to happen.

 

Hockey- I never played but I am a massive fan of the sport, I have many friends who played plus I see all the kids at my local gym play (Marty St. Louis is the coach of one of the youth teams) and think that is a great sport, although it's known to be dangerous as well. I have no experience but I think it's fun and the skills could translate to the lacrosse field.

 

Track and Field - definitely would be cool with this sport, not as much cross country though.

 

Golf - love it

 

Not a huge fan of basketball or soccer, and I used to play basketball when I was a kid but I simply liked football, wrestling, and lacrosse better.

[bababooey]

3 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

How about bicycles and trampolines?

I do agree those are dangerous, but I don't think I've seen a trampoline WITHOUT a protective netting around it in like a decade.

[jvan1973]

40 minutes ago, bababooey said:

I do agree those are dangerous, but I don't think I've seen a trampoline WITHOUT a protective netting around it in like a decade.

I can see two from my back porch

[MackAttack]

Heck yeah there's definitely nothing in the world like playing football with your boys. I played linebacker and fullback for 10+ years won 3 championships. Now obviously it's not the NFL but the amount of growth you get from putting on the helmet and pads and going to war against another team there's nothing like it in the world. I've gotten my share of injuries even neck injuries you take care of yourself and let the doctors do their job. That's the sport it's not a game for the weak of heart I'll tell you that. 

[jvan1973]

22 minutes ago, Zalazar Elijahh said:

Heck yeah there's definitely nothing in the world like playing football with your boys. I played linebacker and fullback for 10+ years won 3 championships. Now obviously it's not the NFL but the amount of growth you get from putting on the helmet and pads and going to war against another team there's nothing like it in the world. I've gotten my share of injuries even neck injuries you take care of yourself and let the doctors do their job. That's the sport it's not a game for the weak of heart I'll tell you that. 

The friends you make in a huddle are friends for life

[Cynjin]

3 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Huh.  I'm very curious.  

 

You are here in these forums, so I assume you are a fan of football.  What, about football, appeals to you?

 

Well, mostly because I played the sport.  I enjoy the competition between two teams, the matchups, strategies, and the overall skills demonstrated by the players.