2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread

[oldunclemark]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Hayward is opting out...too much money not too. He won't hesitate to leave if he finds the right situation....remember he already signed an offer sheet from Charlotte a few years ago to play for MJ. It isn't like Utah is the only place he would like to play clearly. If situation is right he will leave again.

Don't get me wrong...I see little chance Hayward comes to Indy but if he would throw us that bone it would change our chances to keep PG. I could see him leaving....I think he trusts Boston, Indy and others to build something around and put him in a position he is comfortable with.

why would you think Hayward wouldn't stay in Utah..they won 50 games

He has never given ANY indication he wants to go to Boston or Indianapolis.

 

That doesnt mean he wont...but if its money, as you say

.. Utah can offer him more money than ANYONE else

[dgambill]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

Forget the past...Cant live there      Thad Young is a good player 14 and 7...strong..

You need guys like that

 

'Multiple young assets (Sixers, Lakers) don't win'

Don't trade a Top-15 player....you wont have another for awhile.

WE have a young core of talent

Concern yourself only with NEXT year....dont try to stock teenagers for 2020

Next year Lebron and whomever is on his bandwagon will still kick our *. Be real Mark we aren't beating him with what we have or could get. The window is minimum 3 years away and those 2020 guys could be top 5 talent by then...it hurts but that the truth and you know it in your heart.

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

why would you think Hayward wouldn't stay in Utah..they won 50 games

He has never given ANY indication he wants to go to Boston or Indianapolis.

 

That doesnt mean he wont...but if its money, as you say

.. Utah can offer him more money than ANYONE else

Because he already tried to leave once before. Not saying he will but Utah is cap strapped and they aren't in the same stratosphere as GS...they are a nice team but they aren't competing for chip anytime soon either. He isn't PG your right...he isn't announcing all over his desire to go home but don't underestimate the ties to the two teams. If he would go to Charlotte he will come to Indy or Boston and his old coach.

[oldunclemark]

Just now, dgambill said:

Next year Lebron and whomever is on his bandwagon will still kick our *. Be real Mark we aren't beating him with what we have or could get. The window is minimum 3 years away and those 2020 guys could be top 5 talent by then...it hurts but that the truth and you know it in your heart.

LeBron will be 33 next year..DG....it goes real fast....

 

This assumption that we (or any other East team) cannot win is something fans say...Players, coaches and GMs would never say that or act on that.

You've got to be real. You don't run pro franchises with the mindset "We cant win so lets not try'

That's not the real world

[oldunclemark]

5 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Because he already tried to leave once before. Not saying he will but Utah is cap strapped and they aren't in the same stratosphere as GS...they are a nice team but they aren't competing for chip anytime soon either. He isn't PG your right...he isn't announcing all over his desire to go home but don't underestimate the ties to the two teams. If he would go to Charlotte he will come to Indy or Boston and his old coach.

He cant stay in Utah, go be with his old coach and play in his hometown...obviously

The easiest thing for him to do is stay where he is....and make the most money possible.

This next deal wont be his last contract

 

(Same is true for PG, by the way)

[oldunclemark]

Does anybody think Lonzo Ball is better than Jeff Teague right now? 

[dgambill]

7 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

LeBron will be 33 next year..DG....it goes real fast....

 

This assumption that we (or any other East team) cannot win is something fans say...Players, coaches and GMs would never say that or act on that.

You've got to be real. You don't run pro franchises with the mindset "We cant win so lets not try'

That's not the real world

Nope...but think with your head.....does a poke player push all in with a losing hand...or does he play it smart and live to play another hand...does he use some strategy to set up his next hand. Do you see teams trading all their young draft talent to get expensive over the hill players to try to win now when they know the chance is tiny...nope they invest in their future. We've been throwing away picks and money at win now vets last 5 years and it hasn't happened yet....time to get smart and reload.

 

PS...you and others have been saying the same thing about Tom Brady for years too...going to fall off....TB..Lebron..these guys are special...they ain't just going to fall off...they are going to be elite and buck the trend. Nothing shows either are falling apart...in fact Lebron just had his greatest statistical season ever...he is getting better Mark....that is a fact!

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

He cant stay in Utah, go be with his old coach and play in his hometown...obviously

The easiest thing for him to do is stay where he is....and make the most money possible.

This next deal wont be his last contract

Yep....it's a possibility for sure...but he is opting out of his contract I promise you that much for sure. What he does I can't say but now is his best shot at deciding where he wants to play for the next 4 years (prime)...it isn't clear cut where is best for him.

[oldunclemark]

6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Nope...but think with your head.....does a poke player push all in with a losing hand...or does he play it smart and live to play another hand...does he use some strategy to set up his next hand. Do you see teams trading all their young draft talent to get expensive over the hill players to try to win now when they know the chance is tiny...nope they invest in their future. We've been throwing away picks and money at win now vets last 5 years and it hasn't happened yet....time to get smart and reload.

You're not living in the real world of the NBA.

Its not poker..its the NBA...when you have a star....you keep him as long as you can.

You build around hm.

You dont trade him as fast as you can for fear of losing him

 

You try to win so he'll want to stay. See?

[oldunclemark]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yep....it's a possibility for sure...but he is opting out of his contract I promise you that much for sure. What he does I can't say but now is his best shot at deciding where he wants to play for the next 4 years (prime)...it isn't clear cut where is best for him.

as it is not for Paul George..the Lakers are much worse off than the Pacers.

 

Understand that all deals aren't for 4 years, too...they all have opt-outs now

PG could take a max deal from us for 2 years...and revisit his longing for 'home' when he's 29

 

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

You're not living in the real world of the NBA.

Its not poker..its the NBA...when you have a star....you keep him as long as you can.

You build around hm.

Yu dot trade him as fats as you can for fear of losing him

 

You try to win so he'll want to stay. See?

You had him 7 years...he wants to leave...he is telling everyone that will listen that. Why won't you?

[Luck is Good]

7 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Does anybody think Lonzo Ball is better than Jeff Teague right now? 

Not even close. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he's a bust

[oldunclemark]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

You had him 7 years...he wants to leave...he is telling everyone that will listen that. Why won't you?

Because that's not true....publically, he says he wants to stay in Indy.

He has never said that he cant wait to leave Indianapolis

You're hearing what you want to hear

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, Luck is Good said:

Not even close. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he's a bust

are we clouding our view of Ball because of his psycho dad?

 

(I agree with you by the way)

[Luck is Good]

I'm sure Hayward would listen to a Pacers pitch. Sell him on playing for his home state team, playing with PG and bringing a championship to Indianapolis. I think it could work

[Luck is Good]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

are we clouding our view of Ball because of his psycho dad?

 

(I agree with you by the way)

I'm not gonna lie that his dad does make me a little biased towards him being a bust. However, that game against Kentucky showed me he could have a hard time against elite competition at his position. D'Aaron Fox completely outplayed him in the biggest game of the year. It was a clinic by Fox and it clearly showed that Lonzo has a lot to learn

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, Luck is Good said:

I'm sure Hayward would listen to a Pacers pitch. Sell him on playing for his home state team, playing with PG and bringing a championship to Indianapolis. I think it could work

I think Pritchard hears what you are saying.......and I think Paul George will call Hayward if Pritchard asks him to.

Sell him on the concept that the road to the finals is easier in the East..

 

....But I'm sure the Boston coach has Hayward's phone number, too.

It will be interesting....The Celtics can say 'You come to Boston and well beat LeBron"!!

 

 

[oldunclemark]

Just now, Luck is Good said:

I'm not gonna lie that his dad does make me a little biased towards him being a bust. However, that game against Kentucky showed me he could have a hard time against elite competition at his position. D'Aaron Fox completely outplayed him in the biggest game of the year. It was a clinic by Fox and it clearly showed that Lonzo has a lot to learn

I was a little shocked by that game....I'd heard how good Lonzo was and he was overwhelmed in that game.

It is just one game..but he wasn't a 'Big Baller' that night

[dgambill]

12 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Does anybody think Lonzo Ball is better than Jeff Teague right now? 

Not today but after year 1....defiantly....Teague is getting old. Ball I think has a better shot too. That said I'd trade that number 2 pick to Sacramento for 5 and 10...at worst 2 and 18 for 5 and 10...I'm not big on ball would rather have say Fox and Collins perhaps. 

[Luck is Good]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

I think Pritchard hears what you are saying.......and I think Paul George will call Hayward if Pritchard asks him to.

Sell him on the concept that the road to the finals is easier in the East..

 

....But I'm sure the Boston coach has Hayward's phone number, too.

It will be interesting....The Celtics can say 'You come to Boston and well beat LeBron"!!

 

 

You know Stevens has his number. And Boston might have the best pitch. That's why getting to the conference finals was so important. Sell him on being the piece to help them conquer the Cavs. You're correct there

[oldunclemark]

Would anybody give Paul Milsap $20 mil to come play power forward next to Paul George?

We tried to get Milsap (it is said) 3 years ago.

[Luck is Good]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Not today but after year 1....defiantly....Teague is getting old. Ball I think has a better shot too. That said I'd trade that number 2 pick to Sacramento for 5 and 10...at worst 2 and 18 for 5 and 10...I'm not big on ball would rather have say Fox and Collins perhaps. 

I would love D'Aaron Fox. That guy is gonna be a baller

[oldunclemark]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Not today but after year 1....defiantly....Teague is getting old. Ball I think has a better shot too. That said I'd trade that number 2 pick to Sacramento for 5 and 10...at worst 2 and 18 for 5 and 10...I'm not big on ball would rather have say Fox and Collins perhaps. 

dg;

doesn't Balls shot bother you? ...he has superbad form   that shot is funky like a long leg monkey.

Jeff Teague is 30 and he was an all-star 2 years ago

[dgambill]

9 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Because that's not true....publically, he says he wants to stay in Indy.

He has never said that he cant wait to leave Indianapolis

You're hearing what you want to hear

Paul can't say it himself. But his media plants have done plenty of it and he has said many times his love for Kobe being his idol and wanting his legacy to be bringing LA another title. Maybe Paul will stay but there isn't just smoke...there is already flames there....so there is fire. Unless Pritchard can land the offseason of all offseasons that cat is jumping ship Mark.

[oldunclemark]

Just now, Luck is Good said:

I would love D'Aaron Fox. That guy is gonna be a baller

His speed is overwhelming..like John Wall,,,but wed' have to commit to playing that way

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Would anybody give Paul Milsap $20 mil to come play power forward next to Paul George?

We tried to get Milsap (it is said) 3 years ago.

Uhhh no. 3 years ago....uhh sure!

[oldunclemark]

Just now, dgambill said:

Paul can't say it himself. But his media plants have done plenty of it and he has said many times his love for Kobe being his idol and wanting his legacy to be bringing LA another title. Maybe Paul will stay but there isn't just smoke...there is already flames there....so there is fire. Unless Pritchard can land the offseason of all offseasons that cat is jumping ship Mark.

How come we think its a longshot that Hayward would 'come home' but PG 'going home' is a done deal?

I think both could stay where they are

 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

dg;

doesn't Balls shot bother you? ...he has superbad form   that shot is funky like a long leg monkey.

Jeff Teague is 30 and he was an all-star 2 years ago

Nope...his lack of defense bothers me to no ends and that is why I don't want him. His shot is fine. It isn't a slow release etc...shooting is about repitition Mark...pure and simple....if he has a quick release he won't have any issues getting it off.

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Uhhh no. 3 years ago....uhh sure!

Yeah..he's had a really good career....but he's 33 next February....

..and I worry that the game has changed on him.....he's not your 'stretch 4' .....never pretended to be

 

Right now? We might have more chance of winning the East with Ronnie Milsap than we would  with Paul Milsap

[oldunclemark]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Nope...his lack of defense bothers me to no ends and that is why I don't want him. His shot is fine. It isn't a slow release etc...shooting is about repitition Mark...pure and simple....if he has a quick release he won't have any issues getting it off.

OMG. Ball's shot is NOT fine.

He has to alter that shot.....if he's tightly guarded........he pulls it up from the hip

Kentucky dominated him

He WILL have issues getting his shot off. He's got to work on that

 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

How come we think its a longshot that Hayward would 'come home' but PG 'going home' is a done deal?

I think both could stay where they are

 

Because I think it's 50/50 for Hayward....and that 50 leaving is split between probably 10 teams and Boston has actually a better case to present to him than we do so even if he goes I'd say 80/15 he goes to Boston before us. PG reps have been all over the media saying he wants to go home and the chance we put a quality team around him as good as Hayward has in Utah is less. Utah is better than us...thus if we had a team like that around Paul I'd say the opposite.

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

OMG. Ball's shot is NOT fine.

He has to alter that shot.....if he's tightly guarded........he pulls it up from the hip

He WILL have issues getting his shot off. He's got to work on that

 

I honestly never saw him have issues getting it off...plus if he is guarded close why do you want him shooting? He is a facilitator pg. He won't take contested shots much. The shot is fine....it's his foot speed that bothers me Mark. I'm not big on him...but his shot is far from his issues. He is Jason Kidd with better shot...but today's NBA pick in roll athletic scoring PGs...he is going to get eaten alive on defense. You have to hide him and I hate that kinda guy cause it limits what you can put out there with him.

[oldunclemark]

Just now, dgambill said:

Because I think it's 50/50 for Hayward....and that 50 leaving is split between probably 10 teams and Boston has actually a better case to present to him than we do so even if he goes I'd say 80/15 he goes to Boston before us. PG reps have been all over the media saying he wants to go home and the chance we put a quality team around him as good as Hayward has in Utah is less. Utah is better than us...thus if we had a team like that around Paul I'd say the opposite.

Conspiracy theory.

He says publically he wants to stay in Indiana but he tells his spies to let word slip out that he must go to LA.

That's kinda silly,.

He's knows Magic Johnson. They've met. He doesnt have to let word slip out 'all over the media'

 

Utah is better than us but they have less chance to win the conference obviously

 

[oldunclemark]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I honestly never saw him have issues getting it off...plus if he is guarded close why do you want him shooting? He is a facilitator pg. He won't take contested shots much. The shot is fine....it's his foot speed that bothers me Mark. I'm not big on him...but his shot is far from his issues. He is Jason Kidd with better shot...but today's NBA pick in roll athletic scoring PGs...he is going to get satin alive on defense. You have to hide him and I hate that kinda guy cause it limits what you can put out there with him.

dg;

You missed the Kentucky game if you didn't see him have issues getting an open shot.

You have to score from the point......maybe someday but I didn't see it in the NCAA tournament

 

Teague is a much better player right now.Ball has never played an NBA game and played just 35 college games

[oldunclemark]

It is MUCH easier for a player to stay where he is than it is for him to leave.

Especially if his contract is not up

[Luck is Good]

Give me D'Aaron Fox or Malik Monk

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

Conspiracy theory.

He says publically he wants to stay in Indiana but he tells his spies to let word slip out that he must go to LA.

That's kinda silly,.

He's knows Magic Johnson. They've met. He doesnt have to let word slip out 'all over the media'

 

Utah is better than us but they have less chance to win the conference obviously

 

Agree about the less chance that is why I think Gordon may leave...but the stuff out there about Paul and what he has said about wanting to create a legacy in LA is real. There is some FUD out there but Paul when he goes on shows etc never shuts down the LA talk. He feeds it. It's fine we disagree...but if we can't put a team around him this offseason...he will leave...so if Pritchard sees FA slip away then he needs to pivot fast and make the trade at the draft.

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

It is MUCH easier for a player to stay where he is than it is for him to leave.

Especially if his contract is not up

It is but both are opting out...the money they can sign even if they did a one year deal would be way way more than staying....that is a certainty. Once they opt out anyone can sign them...so that opens up that can of worms. You might be right Mark....might.

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Give me D'Aaron Fox or Malik Monk

I'm telling you if I have first or second pick I'm moving it to Sacramento if possible. Ball can still play in California and we get 5 and 10th pick. You can rebuild real fast with say Fox, Collins, and maybe Kenard at 18. Put that next to Turner...let Teague walk....you suddenly have tons of cap space to maybe make a run at Butler or someone else in a couple years and that youth group would be pretty nice. I worry about Monks size to defend and Foxs shooting but dang Fox is electric...speed is amazing and would put stress on defense. Could you imagine Fox with Monks shot?

[Luck is Good]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I'm telling you if I have first or second pick I'm moving it to Sacramento if possible. Ball can still play in California and we get 5 and 10th pick. You can rebuild real fast with say Fox, Collins, and maybe Kenard at 18. Put that next to Turner...let Teague walk....you suddenly have tons of cap space to maybe make a run at Butler or someone else in a couple years and that youth group would be pretty nice. I worry about Monks size to defend and Foxs shooting but dang Fox is electric...speed is amazing and would put stress on defense. Could you imagine Fox with Monks shot?

Holy crap D'Aaron Fox with Malik Monk's shot would be an unstoppable basketball player. That's his biggest weakness. He develops a shot, oh baby he's gonna show out