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2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread


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My final take for tonight:

 

-Imagine had Durant not gone to the Warriors after the 2016 Season? After the Cavs beat them in 2016, as of now LeBron would be celebrating his 3rd straight Championship with a 3-Peat from 2016-2018. Durant is the Equalizer for LeBron! LeBron would have 5 Championships after tonight and ESPN and his fans would be relentless with the GOAT talk. Silence for now baby! Where LeBron ranks All-time is all opinion and up in the air. I have him 4th all-time as the season concludes. He is an incredible player, best player in this era but his 3-6 Finals record is troubling. By my eye test and factoring in Championships, Stats, Finals MVP's, League MVP's, etc. I still have Jordan #1, Magic #2, and Kareem #3. I feel very comfortable with that being the Top 3. LeBron is at #4 IMO.

 

-Resume's of each player:

Jordan = 6 Championships/6-0 in Finals, 6 Finals MVP's, 5 League MVP's, 10 Time Scoring Champ, 9 Time 1st Team all Defense.

 

Magic = 5 Championships/5-4 in the Finals, 3 Finals MVP's, 3 League MVP's, All-time leader in NBA history in Assist average per season at 11.2, won Finals MVP as a Rookie with a close out game of 42/15/7 without Kareem. Magic's Efficiency was off the charts too = 52% FG's, 85% FT's for his career. LeBron fans always use this as a huge argument to why he is better than everyone.

 

Kareem = 6 Championships/6-4 in the Finals, 2 Finals MVP's, 6 League MVP's, All-time leading Scorer in NBA history.

 

LeBron = 3 Championships/3-6 in the Finals, 3 Finals MVP's, 4 League MVP's, 1 Time Scoring Champ, 5 Time 1st Team all Defense. LeBron's Efficiency = 50% FG's, 74% FT's for his career.

 

-To end this Post, Congrats to the 2018 Warriors for creating a Dynasty in winning 3 Championships in 4 years. They now join teams from recent era's like the 80's Lakers who won 5 in 9 years with Magic and Kareem, 80's Celtics who won 3 in 6 years with Bird, 90's Bulls who won 6 in 8 years with Jordan and Pippen, and the 3-Peat Lakers of 2000-2002 with Kobe and Shaq. The guys underlined aren't mentioned above but were all Great players.

 

-Good night everyone and peace out :cheers:

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im tired of us losing to lebron, but i dont like the warriors any better.  durant going there would have been like MJ joining shaq and kobe, the rest of the league has no chance really 

 

especially not teams like the pacers, which the league does not seem to care about at all 

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38 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

I hope the LeBron and MJ comparisons are over after last night too. LeBron quit in the second half last night. MJ wouldn't have done that. Just saying.

I never have understood how LeBron just leapfrogged Magic and Kareem in that discussion either when the media talks about who is the GOAT. One reason why it's tough for me to include Russell in the GOAT discussion is because his era was way different. When he played they didn't even have a Finals MVP award until his last season. When he won 8 of his 11 Championships, he only had to win 2 series. IMO his Championships aren't the same but that is my opinion. That is way different compared to the 80's, 90's, and now. The reason why Magic and Kareem get overlooked is because they played 30 years ago and all people care about is what is happening now. Seeing my Post above I have LeBron 4th now all-time but have Posted many facts to why he isn't better than Jordan, Magic, or Kareem. LeBron fans and people that think he's the GOAT think Basketball was invented in 2011 :funny:. They are extremely biased and get their feelings hurt if you don't rank him 1 or 2. My dad who is 66 has watched more Basketball than any of us have forgot and he doesn't have LeBron in his Top 5. He has him between 6-10. His Top 5 is Jordan 1, Wilt 2, Kareem 3, Magic 4, and Bird 5. He thinks Bird was slightly better than LeBron because of the era he played in and he stayed with 1 team to win his 3 Championships.

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8 hours ago, aaron11 said:

im tired of us losing to lebron, but i dont like the warriors any better.  durant going there would have been like MJ joining shaq and kobe, the rest of the league has no chance really 

 

especially not teams like the pacers, which the league does not seem to care about at all 

Honestly the pacers have not earned being recognized.  Being never quite good enough is all the Pacers have been since the merger.

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5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Honestly the pacers have not earned being recognized.  Being never quite good enough is all the Pacers have been since the merger.

In 1998 we had the best team IMO, we lost at Chicago vs Michael Jordan by 3 points in Game 7. We just blew it. That was our best chance to win it all. Utah would've been the Finals opponent and Jeff Hornacek was playing injured, basically on 1 leg. I think Reggie would've torched Utah. Utah was a lot better the year before in 97 when they went to the Finals because Hornacek and Stockton both were healthy. In 97 Malone played out of his mind too. In 98 they were more beatable.

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3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I never have understood how LeBron just leapfrogged Magic and Kareem in that discussion either when the media talks about who is the GOAT. One reason why it's tough for me to include Russell in the GOAT discussion is because his era was way different. When he played they didn't even have a Finals MVP award until his last season. When he won 8 of his 11 Championships, he only had to win 2 series. IMO his Championships aren't the same but that is my opinion. That is way different compared to the 80's, 90's, and now. The reason why Magic and Kareem get overlooked is because they played 30 years ago and all people care about is what is happening now. Seeing my Post above I have LeBron 4th now all-time but have Posted many facts to why he isn't better than Jordan, Magic, or Kareem. LeBron fans and people that think he's the GOAT think Basketball was invented in 2011 :funny:. They are extremely biased and get their feelings hurt if you don't rank him 1 or 2. My dad who is 66 has watched more Basketball than any of us have forgot and he doesn't have LeBron in his Top 5. He has him between 6-10. His Top 5 is Jordan 1, Wilt 2, Kareem 3, Magic 4, and Bird 5. He thinks Bird was slightly better than LeBron because of the era he played in and he stayed with 1 team to win his 3 Championships.

Why does James get overlooked because he has played in this century? 

Teams were better in the older days because the group of the better players didn't have to be stretched to 30 teams.

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5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Why does James get overlooked because he has played in this century? 

Teams were better in the older days because the group of the better players didn't have to be stretched to 30 teams.

That is a great question but I do think the 80's was the best decade as well. They had the Athlete's that could compete today and had better teams with the exception of what the Warriors have put together. Look at what some of the teams of the 80's had:

Lakers - Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Scott

Celtics - Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ, and Walton for a couple of years

Sixers - Doctor J, Moses, Cheeks, Toney

Pistons - Isiah, Dumars, Laimbeer, Rodman

-Also the 1984 Draft produced Jordan, Olajuwon, Barkley, and Stockton.

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To add to my Post above, he doesn't get overlooked by the media. Everyone on ESPN either has him 1 or 2, same for the NBA Network. All they talk about is how Great he is. God forbid anyone say anything Bad about him, if one did they would probably get fired. My dad, like me (and many others) just think the 80's and 90's were a better era. Imagine James trying to go through the East playing those Celtics, Sixers, or Pistons teams. Even if he had the Heat in 2013 he would probably lose. I have watched Basketball since the late 70's and have never seen a guy get a pass like LeBron does when he loses the Finals. Magic, Bird, and Jordan and even Kobe would get trashed and blamed for everything when they lost. When LeBron loses it's either his teammates, an injury, or the team he was playing was just better.

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On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 2:46 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Pretty much all anyone cares about is who wins and loses in the history of sports. Whether it's right or wrong, when you root for a team or player that is all that matters. Nobody remembers 2nd place. Here is just a fun list for you NBA fans and NFL Football fans regarding Elite Superstars/QB's winning and losing. Wins is the #1 tiebreaker, 2nd tiebreaker is NBA Finals Appearances/SB Appearances if a player has the same amount of Wins/SB wins.

 

NBA all-time:

1. Bill Russell 11-1

 

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 6-4

 

3. Michael Jordan 6-0

 

4. Magic Johnson 5-4

 

5. Kobe Bryant 5-2

 

6. Tim Duncan 5-1

 

7. George Mikan 5-0

 

8. Shaquille O'Neal 4-2

 

9. LeBron James 3-6

 

10. Larry Bird 3-2

-That is the Top 10 with 3 or more wins out of who most people consider the Elite of the Elite. Not a knock against LeBron but he ranks 9th here.

 

NFL all-time starting QB's in SB's - SB era (1966-2017):

1. Tom Brady 5-3

 

2. Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana tied for 2nd = 4-0

 

4. Troy Aikman 3-0 (behind the 3 above)

 

5. John Elway 2-3 (more appearances than Staubach and Peyton)

 

6. Roger Staubach and our Peyton Manning tied for 6th = 2-2

 

8. Bob Griese and Ben Roethlisberger tied for 8th = 2-1 (behind Staubach and Peyton because of appearances)

 

10. 3 tied in 10th = Bart Starr 2-0, Jim Plunkett 2-0. Eli Manning 2-0 

-These are the 12 QB's that have won 2 or more SB's. Our Peyton ranks tied for 6th on this list.

 

-Regarding Baseball, the Cubs are still #1 and Indians #2 regarding the 2016 World Series. Nothing will ever change that! :cheers:

 

-Just bored and having fun here.

This is holds true for the normal diehard fan. When your favorite team or player loses it sucks. When they win, that is all that matters. I remember when Kobe shot 6-24 in Game 7 vs the Celtics, didn't matter he and his team found a way to win the Championship. That is all 99% of people remember. I could care less the Broncos Defense carried Peyton to a very important 2nd SB win. All that matters was he won and didn't screw it up. I can point to legitimate excuses to why the Colts lost in SB44 to the Saints. Like Dwight Freeney being injured and a dumb butt that couldn't recover an Onside Kick - guess what, nobody cares. Otherwise, Peyton would have 3 SB wins. All 99% of people care about is who wins and loses. Basketball, Football, Baseball, and Hockey are all the same with fans. Does anyone care Andrew Luck has won 60% of his games started, has the Rookie record for most Passing Yards, is one of only 8 QB's in NFL history to throw for 40 or more TD's in a season? Nope, they only care about beating the Patriots and winning the SB. We make it to the AFC Title Game in 2014 and all most people talk about is how we got blown out. They don't even appreciate the season in general.

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LeBron apparently was playing with an Injured right hand the last 3 games...of the finals...….he wore a cast to the 'next day' news conference..

 

Truth be told..Kevin Love tore ligaments in his right thumb in the first round..Game 2 vs the Pacers..

He played the final 20 playoff games with that injury

...To my knowledge he didnt talk about it or wear a cast to his exit interview..

 

...LeBron deserves our sympathy for having to play hurt:thinking:

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5 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

LeBron apparently was playing with an Injured right hand the last 3 games...of the finals...….he wore a cast to the 'next day' news conference..

 

Truth be told..Kevin Love tore ligaments in his right thumb in the first round..Game 2 vs the Pacers..

He played the final 20 playoff games with that injury

...To my knowledge he didnt talk about it or wear a cast to his exit interview..

 

...LeBron deserves our sympathy for having to play hurt:thinking:

Of course, the KING of excuses. If you notice in Games 2-4 he was slapping high fives with his teammates though after every great play and didn't wince once. The Warriors had the better team but getting swept is a bit embarrassing. I thought it would go 6.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Of course, the KING of excuses. If you notice in Games 2-4 he was slapping high fives with his teammates though after every great play and didn't wince once. The Warriors had the better team but getting swept is a bit embarrassing. I thought it would go 6.

   It just bugged me.

I believe LeBron was indeed hurt...but so was Love. George Hill was too, most likely.

Obviously Iguodala was...so was Klay Thompson...Steph wasn't 100%

 

If I'm Lebron, I dont even mention that. No one would know probably until years later.

Everybody in the NBA who plays is a little bit hurt by April and May.

But LeBron doesn't mind if you know he had an excuse.  :scorebad:

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2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

   It just bugged me.

I believe LeBron was indeed hurt...but so was Love. George Hill was too, most likely.

Obviously Iguodala was...so was Klay Thompson...Steph wasn't 100%

 

If I'm Lebron, I dont even mention that. No one would know probably until years later.

Everybody in the NBA who plays is a little bit hurt by April and May.

But LeBron doesn't mind if you know he had an excuse.  :scorebad:

I agree, nobody had any idea he was injured until he brought it up after Game 4. Just seems like an excuse to make him look better. Not one person in the media had said anything about him being injured either. I just find that odd because there is always a leak somewhere.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What can our Pacers do in the offseason to get better? This offseason is going to be real exciting and suspenseful in a lot of ways.

The first thing tht occurs to me is that if LeBron leaves Cleveland, they will look to move the guy with big contracts..Love...Thompson, JR  and Kyle Korver.

 

I'd trade a lot for Love

Would it be smart to pick up a shooter like Korver?

 

 

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Marcus Smart and Rodney Hood are restricted free agents...in the $10-$15 mil range

Tyreke Evans is an unrestricted free agent

 

The draft....how about the kid from Ohio state with three names. Big-10 MVP

A small forward who can play the 'D',  

The draft come sup quickly now..June 21

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

In the 1989 Finals vs Detroit, Magic tore his hamstring in Game 1 and it was clear. He couldn't walk and was out for the rest of the series. So I guess technically he was only 5-3 in the Finals lmao. Guess what nobody cares. Pistons fans sure don't :funny:

I  remember Peyton refusing to talk about his injuries..we knew about his foot problems and past surgeries but we find out he had limited feeling in the fingers on his throwing hand the last 4 years.

I didn't know that until he retired...because he didn't talk about it

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11 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

The first thing tht occurs to me is that if LeBron leaves Cleveland, they will look to move the guy with big contracts..Love...Thompson, JR  and Kyle Korver.

 

I'd trade a lot for Love

Would it be smart to pick up a shooter like Korver?

 

 

I would love to have LOVE haha. Not sure what I would give up for him? Maybe Bogdanovic and our 23rd? Not sure the Cavs would do that?? They may just want to get rid of Love's contract so who knows.

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11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What can our Pacers do in the offseason to get better? This offseason is going to be real exciting and suspenseful in a lot of ways.

Summer league will be revealing because we'll see Ike Indigbou…...and TJ Leaf and Edmund Sumner..along with the two boys we draft...

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would love to have LOVE haha. Not sure what I would give up for him? Maybe Bogdanovic and our 23rd? Not use the Cavs would do that?? They may just want to get rid of Love's contract so who knows.

They'd want Al Jefferson because they can release him and gain cap space

Truth be told..they'd probably want Myles Turner in that deal

..I'd do that (Myles, Bogan, Big Al for Love) if they'd switch draft spots with us...they have '8' and we have '23'

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7 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

I  remember Peyton refusing to talk about his injuries..we knew about his foot problems and past surgeries but we find out he had limited feeling in the fingers on his throwing hand the last 4 years.

I didn't know that until he retired...because he didn't talk about it

Peyton was never the same after his neck fusion and he still dominated and won another SB. Getting that 2nd SB win was so huge, some people don't realize how big that is for his legacy. QB's rarely win 2 or more.

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3 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

They'd want Al Jefferson because they can release him and gain cap space

Truth be told..they'd probably want Myles Turner in that deal

..I'd do that (Myles, Bogan, Big Al for Love) if they'd switch draft spots with us...they have '8' and we have '23'

I'd do AL and Bogey and the 23rd. Not sure about Myles?

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Peyton was never the same after his neck fusion and he still dominated and won another SB. Getting that 2nd SB win was so huge, some people don't realize how big that is for his legacy. QB's rarely win or more.

The 55-TD, 5,500 yard season with a rebuilt neck and numbness in his fingers...stands as the greatest QB season ever to me...

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I'd do AL and Bogey and the 23rd. Not sure about Myles?

They might do that because they'd probably then release Bogie too (both Bogdonavich and Al are on the last year of deals with 'team options')..they can simply decline their options..and they'd gain a lot of cap space.

 

Of course, if LBJ walks they wouldn't need cap space..they'd want young guys and picks

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We've got to decide about Myles...

Myles and Sabonis have to find a way to play together because we cant have one as backup to the other.

That's eventually going to cost two much...

 

In a year, we have to sign Myles (and its going to cost $15-$20 mil) or move him because in two years, we have to pay Sabonis

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is individually I agree. I meant winning 2 or more SB's rarely happens. I don't proofread much.

You make a good point about winning Super Bowls with 2 different teams.....

...that's more difficult than it might, at first appear.

 

As great as they are..Rodgers, Brady and Brees will not do that

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1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

We've got to decide about Myles...

Myles and Sabonis have to find a way to play together because we cant have one as backup to the other.

That's eventually going to cost two much...

 

In a year, we have to sign Myles (and its going to cost $15-$20 mil) or move him because in two years, we have to pay Sabonis

The thing is Myles is only 22. I am not sure I wouldn't just re-sign him. I would love to get Kevin Love though somehow. He was a SuperStar in Minnesota and has been a Very Good player in Cleveland with Championship experience now. He is a 20/10 guy all day and he can shoot 3's.

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The more I think about it, If Lebron does go, he is going to the Western Conference. My reasoning is that he wouldn't want to hurt Cleveland in the playoffs or play Miami (unless it is the Finals) and no way the Cavaliers ever sniff an NBA Finals without Lebron. Plus, the Warriors seem to have more closer series in the Western conference finals than anything else.

 

Rockets or Lakers is what I got. Plus, the Cavalier fans will probably be more understanding this time, IMO, as long as there is no fan fare to his announcement (which was what got him into trouble last time more than the move itself). 

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The thing is Myles is only 22. I am not sure I wouldn't just re-sign him. I would love to get Kevin Love though somehow. He was a SuperStar in Minnesota and has been a Very Good player in Cleveland with Championship experience now. He is a 20/10 guy all day and he can shoot 3's.

..just 29 years old...with a contact similar to Victor's

.. its a guy you don't have any character issues with and he doesn't need 20 shots a game

….we need rebounding help

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3 minutes ago, chad72 said:

The more I think about it, If Lebron does go, he is going to the Western Conference. My reasoning is that he wouldn't want to hurt Cleveland in the playoffs or play Miami (unless it is the Finals) and no way the Cavaliers ever sniff an NBA Finals without Lebron. Plus, the Warriors seem to have more closer series in the Western conference finals than anything else.

 

Rockets or Lakers is what I got. Plus, the Cavalier fans will probably be more understanding this time, IMO, as long as there is no fan fare to his announcement (which was what got him into trouble last time more than the move itself). 

I agree….just be open and up front and make the decision quick.

I think its between LA (although he'd have to deal with LeVar Ball) and Miami.

 

The Lakers could sign LeBron and Paul George if they want to, right?

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3 minutes ago, chad72 said:

The more I think about it, If Lebron does go, he is going to the Western Conference. My reasoning is that he wouldn't want to hurt Cleveland in the playoffs or play Miami (unless it is the Finals) and no way the Cavaliers ever sniff an NBA Finals without Lebron. 

 

Rockets or Lakers is what I got. Plus, the Cavalier fans will probably be more understanding this time, IMO, as long as there is no fan fare to his announcement (which was what got him into trouble last time more than the move itself). 

Yeah I agree, I say Houston because I cant see him going out without at least 1 more Championship. He knows what legacy is about and winning is about. Houston would have to do some maneuvering with the Cap but Morey is pretty smart.

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5 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Im reading that Chris Paul wans a max deal....

If that's true, they'll be $50 mil over the cap with Capela and LeBron

 

It could be done but that's a lot of money..and Paul and LBJ are in their mid-30s

Yeah that will be tough. CP3 is a Great player but he gets injured a lot in key Playoff series. Guy scares me durability wise.

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 I like Kemba Walker and Cody Zeller (they want to get rid of that $42 mil deal)

for Big Al and Collison....but again, they'd want Myles Turner, too.

They want some young players, not 30-somethings

 

I think Cody Zeller (who makes $13, $14 and $15 the next 3 years) might be better than advertised playing 'back home again' in Indiana

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2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

 I like Kemba Waller and Cody Zeller (they want to get rid of that $12 mil deal)

for Big Al and Collison....but again, they'd want Myles Turner, too.

They want some young players, not 30-somethings

 

I think Cody Zeller might be better than advertised playing in Indiana

I like this idea. Imagine a backcourt of Walker and Dipo, with Bogdanovic, Thad, and Sabonis as starters. Lance still coming off the bench with Joseph and Zeller.

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Orlando's Aaron Gordon would be a perfect fit at forward but I'm reading he wants a max deal....$20-$25 mil

That's a lot.

 

He averages 17 and 8 and he's just 23...but he's only an average 3-point shooter and defender.....he;s just very, very athletic..

 

That's a gamble.

 

.

 

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