2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread

[oldunclemark]

5 hours ago, aaron11 said:

the cavs probably feel the same way about trading kyrie to us as we did about trading paul to them

 

 

Good point.

Cavs are thinking about 'life after LeBron' ..they have to be.

 

We always debate.."what free agents will come to Indy"

If LBJ is gone...what free agents will go to Cleveland?

Edited July 22, 2017 by oldunclemark

[HOFClipboardHolder]

14 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Good point.

Cavs are thinking about 'life after LeBron' ..they have to be.

 

We always debate.."what free agents will come to Indy"

If LBJ is gone...what free agents will go to Cleveland?

None. They'll go back to wasting first round picks on the likes of Anthony Bennett

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Good point.

Cavs are thinking about 'life after LeBron' ..they have to be.

 

We always debate.."what free agents will come to Indy"

If LBJ is gone...what free agents will go to Cleveland?

Cleveland had their 1 time glory and it's now over. They got lucky because they have had a guy that they drafted that is from that area. A guy who is a Top 10 player of all-time, if not Top 5 but the ride is about over now. They will suck here shortly when he leaves. At least they got a Championship out of it like we did with Peyton here so that is huge.

[21isSuperman]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Cleveland had their 1 time glory and it's now over. They got lucky because they have had a guy that they drafted that is from that area. A guy who is a Top 10 player of all-time, if not Top 5 but the ride is about over now. They will suck here shortly when he leaves. At least they got a Championship out of it like we did with Peyton here so that is huge.

I blame their owner.  By not giving Griffin the extension he wanted, I think that set the wheels of destruction into motion.  Griffin is gone, so they don't have that continuity in the front office to bring in free agents.  And since they haven't done much to improve, their own players are unhappy with their offseason and you have Kyrie asking to be traded.

[NFLfan]

On 7/22/2017 at 0:22 PM, oldunclemark said:

 

Kyrie must have other issues with LeBron..

He says he wants to be the main focus on a team. 

 

 

  Kyrie's pulling a Scottie Pippen. The Cavs were one of the worst teams in the NBA before Lebron came back. Kyrie should be thankful that Lebron helped him get a ring.

[RockThatBlue]

Rumor is now that the Kings will offer the Cavs Fox for Kyrie

 

[aaron11]

8 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

  Kyrie's pulling a Scottie Pippen. The Cavs were one of the worst teams in the NBA before Lebron came back. Kyrie should be thankful that Lebron helped him get a ring.

i think its becasue hes a point guard and playing with lebron makes kyrie have to change his game up

 

anyone thats a star player in their own right at that position might take issue with playing with lebron at some point

 

lebron either needs a george hill type PG or someone who is more of a shooter than a driver like kyrie.  or maybe they should roll with two shooting guards and only have back up pgs for when james is out

[Luck is Good]

28 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Rumor is now that the Kings will offer the Cavs Fox for Kyrie

 

I wouldn't like that at all. De'Aaron Fox on the Cavs would mean bad things for the Pacers four times a year. That guy is the best player from this draft imo. He's gonna be really good

[RockThatBlue]

3 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

I wouldn't like that at all. De'Aaron Fox on the Cavs would mean bad things for the Pacers four times a year. That guy is the best player from this draft imo. He's gonna be really good

Yeah I would hate it too. I don't see the Cavs doing it though. Fox is going to be a great one but LeBron is getting older now, I would think the Cavs would want someone already established and not wait 2-3 years for Fox to develop.

 

Then again, its Gilbert we are talking about here, so you never know.

[RockThatBlue]

Apparently Kyrie was involved in trade talks for Jimmy Butler and PG

 

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20127818/nba-weeks-dysfunction-surrounding-kyrie-irving-trade-demand

[oldunclemark]

7 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Rumor is now that the Kings will offer the Cavs Fox for Kyrie

 

Cavs will laugh that off......they're going for the title next year/

Fox is very promising but totally unroven

[oldunclemark]

6 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Yeah I would hate it too. I don't see the Cavs doing it though. Fox is going to be a great one but LeBron is getting older now, I would think the Cavs would want someone already established and not wait 2-3 years for Fox to develop.

 

Then again, its Gilbert we are talking about here, so you never know.

Probably not

I doubt Gilbert is making personell decisions

[oldunclemark]

7 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

  Kyrie's pulling a Scottie Pippen. The Cavs were one of the worst teams in the NBA before Lebron came back. Kyrie should be thankful that Lebron helped him get a ring.

I don't understand why he didn't just wait until the end of next year when a lot of things would be clearer..

.....I wonder if there';s other issues.

[oldunclemark]

12 hours ago, HOFClipboardHolder said:

None. They'll go back to wasting first round picks on the likes of Anthony Bennett

Anthony who?

[oldunclemark]

9 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I blame their owner.  By not giving Griffin the extension he wanted, I think that set the wheels of destruction into motion.  Griffin is gone, so they don't have that continuity in the front office to bring in free agents.  And since they haven't done much to improve, their own players are unhappy with their offseason and you have Kyrie asking to be traded.

Supe...

They have no cap space...they have no draft No. 1choices to trade..They have no young players to trade..

...all under the former GM....

.. the owner has spent millions over the salary cap..

 

..and Its his fault somehow?

 

Griffin spent them into a corner..spending the owners cash.

..stacked them with 30 somethings...left them with no place to go

..and he got the ax because of it.

The moveshe made put the Cavs in a cap lock box, didn't he?

 

Edited July 24, 2017 by oldunclemark

[oldunclemark]

I hope our GM is at least getting in on the Kyrie Irving trade talks (if there are any)

I bet he is. 

We cant trade Leaf or any free agent we signed like Bogdonavich  (League rules)

 

But we could offer Myles Turner, Thad Young and Cory Joseph (officially, we traded CJ Miles for him) and I would....  Irving is younger that Joseph..

Thad is a good man but he's goingto a contender at the trade deadline anyway.....

..and to get a player like Kyrie, we'd have to give up a player like Myles.

The salaries matchup.....

 

Irving with Oladipo, Bogan, Sabonis and Seraphin

Backed by  Lance, Glenn, Joe Young and Leaf.,.with an occasional Big Al appearance until our second round

choice is ready.

 

Might just be a fantasy but I'd make the call

[oldunclemark]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 0:26 PM, Colts_Fan12 said:

Dear God you won't let anyone develop you hate anyone young don't you you have no damn clue how good Turner will be he is super young and is already improving at a fast pace you are so stuck on the stupid win now mentality you would gladly trade away our future to make the playoffs as an later seed 

How would acquiring a 25-year-old 22 point per game scorer be trading away the future?

Kyrie Irving is an all-star...and you're right. I have no idea how good Myles Turner will be.  He didn't improve as much as I thought he would last season and we have to pay him $20 mil a year in 2 years

Edited July 24, 2017 by oldunclemark

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

Supe...

They have no cap space...they have no draft No. 1choices to trade..They have no young players to trade..

...all under the former GM....

.. the owner has spent millions over the salary cap..

 

..and Its his fault somehow?

 

Griffin spent them into a corner..spending the owners cash.

..stacked them with 30 somethings...left them with no place to go

..and he got the ax because of it.

The moveshe made put the Cavs in a cap lock box, didn't he?

 

He also got them to the point of winning a championship last year.  I don't like all the moves Griffin made, but if they had kept him, maybe they'd be better able to attract free agents or talk trades with other GMs.

[oldunclemark]

7 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

He also got them to the point of winning a championship last year.  I don't like all the moves Griffin made, but if they had kept him, maybe they'd be better able to attract free agents or talk trades with other GMs.

Maybe....but the owner is looking at the whole thing.

the owner has other issues than just trying to win.

Think about it. You own the team. Its your millions.

You give a GM a blank check to build a champ. he does it but he puts you deep in the red and fills your roster with guys you cant use or trade.

I'm sure the assistant GM was able to make trades

 

Twice now Dan Gilbert has allowed his team to run deep into the luxury tax trying to win.

. The owner did his job and then some.  Gilbert got them that title with unlimited spending

[21isSuperman]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

Maybe....but the owner is looking at the whole thing.

the owner has other issues than just trying to win.

Think about it. You own the team. Its your millions.

You give a GM a blank check to build a champ. he does it but he puts you deep in the red and fills your roster with guys you cant use or trade.

I'm sure the assistant GM was able to make trades

 

Twice now Dan Gilbert has allowed his team to run deep into the luxury tax trying to win.

. The owner did his job and then some.  Gilbert got them that title with unlimited spending

Again, I don't like every move Griffin made, but he had some success and got them to win the title.  If nothing else, keeping Griffin means continuity, so you can perhaps get rid of some overpriced players and find guys who bring more value to your team.

[oldunclemark]

Just now, 21isSuperman said:

Again, I don't like every move Griffin made, but he had some success and got them to win the title.  If nothing else, keeping Griffin means continuity, so you can perhaps get rid of some overpriced players and find guys who bring more value to your team.

That's true..but a new GM can do the same.

Look I understand why folks don't like Dan Gilbert.

He never speaks. Never defends himself..and he bad mouthed LeBron on his way out of town.

 

But when you lay down the bucks the way he does, I think he can be demanding.

I dont know what trades they can make in their financial situation...

Irving wanting to be traded may be a blessing because it allows them to get finances back somewhere near

seas level.

 

I dont know if you can count on the same guy who overpaid everybody to turn around and find value guys

[HOFClipboardHolder]

10 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I blame their owner.  By not giving Griffin the extension he wanted, I think that set the wheels of destruction into motion.  Griffin is gone, so they don't have that continuity in the front office to bring in free agents.  And since they haven't done much to improve, their own players are unhappy with their offseason and you have Kyrie asking to be traded.

Dont get me wrong, Dan Gilbert is a terrible owner. But, this is 99% LeBron's fault. Even If the cavs still had Griffin, there is nothing that Griffin can do to improve the team. They have no cap space to get big time free agents and they have no assets to trade, outside the big three. LeBron stood his ground and made sure his guys got paid. Tristan, JR, Shumpert, and Frye. Those contracts look as bad with the cap increase as they did before them. LeBron forced the team to trade any assets they had for the likes of Mozgov. Lebron got the good coach fired and had him replaced him with his buddy. Lebron gutted the team from the inside out and he's now doing his best to shift the blame of him. 

 

Kyrie requested to be traded back when Butler was still with the bulls. Why leak the information weeks later? And the guy who leaked it, Windhorst, is well known to be LeBron's guy. Just more shifting of the blame

[oldunclemark]

I guess I don't see why Dan Gilbert is a terrible owner..

Few will spend like the does..and he says nothing in public

He owns and operates most pro sports in Cleveland and is deeply invested in the community.

 

He has a right to be demanding...and he's LeBron's boss.

He's a very strong owner and with LBJ, he has to be

[Colts_Fan12]

21 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

How would acquiring a 25-year-old 22 point per game scorer be trading away the future?

Kyrie Irving is an all-star...and you're right. I have no idea how good Myles Turner will be.  He didn't improve as much as I thought he would last season and we have to pay him $20 mil a year in 2 years

Turner is 21 gettingkyrie is just going all in and we still wouldn't even be a contender it's just a waste of a very promising 21 year old all cause you can't stand to see the pacers lose a season that mentality is the reason me suck now 

[RockThatBlue]

The Cavs are signing Derick Rose.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

The Cavs are signing Derick Rose.

Kyrie is gone IMO, seen this coming. LeBron probably hates this because Rose is no different than Kyrie style wise. Rose is a guy that needs the ball in hand a lot and loves to drive. At this point in Rose career he is a poor man's Kyrie, a once MVP but nowhere near that now.

[RockThatBlue]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Kyrie is gone IMO, seen this coming. LeBron probably hates this because Rose is no different than Kyrie style wise. Rose is a guy that needs the ball in hand a lot and loves to drive. At this point in Rose career he is a poor man's Kyrie, a once MVP but nowhere near that now.

Rose also can barely stay on the court. Even if Rose was really good, hes always hurt. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, RockThatBlue said:

Rose also can barely stay on the court. Even if Rose was really good, hes always hurt. 

Yeah the Cavs are desperate, they signed DWill last season and now this? They are done.

[RockThatBlue]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah the Cavs are desperate, they signed DWill last season and now this? They are done.

Yeah, it certainly isn't a move that'll put them over the Warriors. They might not even win the East next year either. I think its Bostons to lose now. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, RockThatBlue said:

Yeah, it certainly isn't a move that'll put them over the Warriors. They might not even win the East next year either. I think its Bostons to lose now. 

Yeah I am afraid so. I am not a Boston fan but not a Cavs anyway. I like Brad though, he is a great Coach and he has Indy ties so does Hayward. Washington is a team I would still pick to maybe win the East too. They took Boston 7 last season. Wall is signed now.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Like I have said, thank God for the Warriors from my perspective because they have stopped the LeBron train and they will beat Boston too if that series happens. Warriors winning doesn't even bother me. I like a lot of their players like Curry and Durant and Klay. Of course I will get sick of them if they keep winning but that wont last either, nothing does. I can see them winning maybe 1 or 2 more than contenders will catch up to them like teams did with the Lakers after they 3Peated form 2000-2002.

[RockThatBlue]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I am afraid so. I am not a Boston fan but not a Cavs anyway. I like Brad though, he is a great Coach and he has Indy ties so does Hayward. Washington is a team I would still pick to maybe win the East too. They took Boston 7 last season. Wall is signed now.

Washington is a team on the rise IMO. Theyll be a top 3 team in the East probably

[Chrisaaron1023]

14 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

The Cavs are signing Derick Rose.

Derick Rose is no where near Kyrie. Cavs will suffer big time. Kyrie will too

[Myles]

1 hour ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Derick Rose is no where near Kyrie. Cavs will suffer big time. Kyrie will too

I agree.

However, if Kyrie would stay, this would be a good signing,   Low risk for $2.1 million.  

[RockThatBlue]

On 7/25/2017 at 10:06 AM, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Derick Rose is no where near Kyrie. Cavs will suffer big time. Kyrie will too

They are going after Eric Bledsoe now reportedly. Bledsoe is decent and can stay healthy, probably the best the Cavs can get at this stage in the offseason.

[Jules]

I am late to the Kyrie drama party with comments. 

 

I am disappointed as heck over Kyrie. I NEVER saw this coming.........I always thought he and Lebron were "big brother and little brother."

 

 

I am literally kinda blind sided by this. This is worse than Kobe/Shaq to me since I knew that was coming when it did since they were both always kinda vocal with needling each other from time to time and alpha males and well it was not a shocker.

 

This? I was stunned when I heard about this. I thought these two were comfortable with Lebron as the leader and his young sidekick.

 

This is going to hurt both the Cavs and Kyrie. We have SEEN Kyrie before btw without Lebron........is he kidding me with this? 

 

Also to note, Kyrie's mentor and idol has always been Kobe Bryant. But Kyrie needs to realize too, HE IS NO KOBE BRYANT. He is good yes but he needs to chill the hell out here chasing black mamba dreams.

 

Some think this can be worked out with the Cavs, but I am doubting it. This sounds personal to me. And when as a player you list the Knicks at the moment as a team you would want to play for.......you seriously want OUT.

 

Very disappointing. I always liked Kyrie even though his defense is lacking. And I liked the duo of Lebron/Kyrie and thought that this was a legit friendship too and well I was totally fooled by this.

 

This "could" work for the Cavs if in return they got something good but so far rumors are not looking so positive.

 

I wish we knew more about the real story behind this but maybe bits and pieces come out eventually. I don't think btw this has to do with Lebron and his decision next offseason. I even heard Kyrie wanted to leave last offseason but said nothing since they had just won the title.

 

Very disappointing situation overall.

[Jules]

As for the Paul George situation, yeah this makes no sense to me too that a clean swap could not have been made for Kyrie/PG and everyone would have been happy. Especially if Kyrie wanted to leave for a while.

If Kyrie did not speak up sooner and wanted to keep Lebron from getting anything top notch in return then OUCH Kyrie.........ouch.

[HOFClipboardHolder]

On 7/24/2017 at 7:46 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Like I have said, thank God for the Warriors from my perspective because they have stopped the LeBron train and they will beat Boston too if that series happens. Warriors winning doesn't even bother me. I like a lot of their players like Curry and Durant and Klay. Of course I will get sick of them if they keep winning but that wont last either, nothing does. I can see them winning maybe 1 or 2 more than contenders will catch up to them like teams did with the Lakers after they 3Peated form 2000-2002.

The cavs have had chinks in their armor since LeBron came back to Cleveland. With the way the team was constructed, they only had a 2 to 4 year window to win a championship. They mismanaged their cap from the very start.

 

The warriors are the best constructed team in the history of this league. Their cap management is flawless. The main core are all in their athletic peaks at the same time. The bench is deep. Theyre as good defensively as they are offensively. The only thing stopping the warriors are the luxury tax, Steve Kerr's health, unfortunate injuries to star players or down the line, age.

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2017-nba-predictions/ The warriors were as superior to the Cavs, as the Cavs were to the rest of the league

 

While the warriors are bringing in grizzled vets to play 15 minutes a game at most. The Lakers were counting on their old farts for starter minutes. Combine that with the inner turmoil of Kobe trying to push Shaq out and you see that the team crumbled in on itself.

 

The worst thing about the Warriors, their fanbase. The LeHeat fanbase skipped LeCavs and went straight to San Francisco. It's everything I hated about the bandwagon Miami Heat fans, combined with a natural smugness that oozes from bay area. 

[HOFClipboardHolder]

2 hours ago, Jules said:

As for the Paul George situation, yeah this makes no sense to me too that a clean swap could not have been made for Kyrie/PG and everyone would have been happy. Especially if Kyrie wanted to leave for a while.

If Kyrie did not speak up sooner and wanted to keep Lebron from getting anything top notch in return then OUCH Kyrie.........ouch.

https://twitter.com/vincethepolack/status/879357043303469057/photo/1

LeBron screwed himself

 

Dan Gilbert has been cursing out Indiana to any reporter willing to listen, since Summer League

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, HOFClipboardHolder said:

The cavs have had chinks in their armor since LeBron came back to Cleveland. With the way the team was constructed, they only had a 2 to 4 year window to win a championship. They mismanaged their cap from the very start.

 

The warriors are the best constructed team in the history of this league. Their cap management is flawless. The main core are all in their athletic peaks at the same time. The bench is deep. Theyre as good defensively as they are offensively. The only thing stopping the warriors are the luxury tax, Steve Kerr's health, unfortunate injuries to star players or down the line, age.

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2017-nba-predictions/ The warriors were as superior to the Cavs, as the Cavs were to the rest of the league

 

While the warriors are bringing in grizzled vets to play 15 minutes a game at most. The Lakers were counting on their old farts for starter minutes. Combine that with the inner turmoil of Kobe trying to push Shaq out and you see that the team crumbled in on itself.

 

The worst thing about the Warriors, their fanbase. The LeHeat fanbase skipped LeCavs and went straight to San Francisco. It's everything I hated about the bandwagon Miami Heat fans, combined with a natural smugness that oozes from bay area. 

The Warriors fans don't really bother me too much. That team drafted all of their great players in Curry, Thompson, and Green when they won their first Championship. They added Durant now so yeah that stinks, but they won a Championship without collusion and through the Draft before Durant. LeBron didn't win until he teamed up with Wade and Bosh with Riley running the show.