Patriots offense... meh?

[Chucklez]

Am i the only one that doesn't think the patriots offense is loaded with an embarrasment of riches? Just about every nfl journalist is all over them, but I just don't see it. 

 

Obviously the following guys they have are very good: 

 

- Brady

- Cooks

- Gronk

- White

 

To me that's it though, every other player on that offense is soooo overated and are the products of tom brady:

 

- Lewis (not the same since the injury)

- Amendola (average player at best)

- Edelman (TB product, nothing special really)

- Hogan (... wouldn't start on half the teams in the nfl)

- Gillisee (...who?)

- Burkhead (.... I mean,  who?)

- Mitchell (I mean seriously guys, who are these people?)

- Dwayne Allen.... we all know about him. 

 

I've seen nfl journalists rave about the guys above as if they are all bound for the hall of fame or something... I just don't get it. 

 

Yes the Pats offense will be good,  it might even be one of the best in the afc this year, but let's be real it's not going to be that because of 'Gillisee' or 'Hogan'.... it'll be because of Tom Brady and we all know it. 

 

I guess I am just venting frustration that the entire nfl media world are just so far up the patriots' rear ends that they posting such biased nonsense and we're all subjected to it. 

[shakedownstreet]

*** runs off to start another Patriots related thread ***

[21isSuperman]

Edelman, Amendola, and Hogan might be decent talents, but they are put in good situations by the coaching staff.  Whether the players are products of Brady or the coaches or the system or whatever the case, the bottom line is they play well.

[Coltsfan1953]

Tom Brady will be the face of the new Madden game sooooooooooooo maybe the curse will still work. Not hoping mind you but who knows.

 

[SaturdayAllDay]

14 hours ago, Chucklez said:

Am i the only one that doesn't think the patriots offense is loaded with an embarrasment of riches? Just about every nfl journalist is all over them, but I just don't see it. 

 

Obviously the following guys they have are very good: 

 

- Brady

- Cooks

- Gronk

- White

 

To me that's it though, every other player on that offense is soooo overated and are the products of tom brady:

 

- Lewis (not the same since the injury)

- Amendola (average player at best)

- Edelman (TB product, nothing special really)

- Hogan (... wouldn't start on half the teams in the nfl)

- Gillisee (...who?)

- Burkhead (.... I mean,  who?)

- Mitchell (I mean seriously guys, who are these people?)

- Dwayne Allen.... we all know about him. 

 

I've seen nfl journalists rave about the guys above as if they are all bound for the hall of fame or something... I just don't get it. 

 

Yes the Pats offense will be good,  it might even be one of the best in the afc this year, but let's be real it's not going to be that because of 'Gillisee' or 'Hogan'.... it'll be because of Tom Brady and we all know it. 

 

I guess I am just venting frustration that the entire nfl media world are just so far up the patriots' rear ends that they posting such biased nonsense and we're all subjected to it. 

To be fair, Gillisee did get 5.7 YPC on 100 carries (leading the NFL in YPC), and this on a team with no discernible passing game, against teams routinely stacking the box against him/McCoy. If that isnt talented, I dont know what is. 

 

Yes the offense goes through Brady, but that system seems to get the best out of every player they bring in. If they can get MORE out of Gillisee than he has already shown, he will be a beast. If he can average even 5ypc (which is considerably lower than his 5.7 average last yr) with the amount of carries Blount got last year (299), he would be just short of 1500 rush yds. With Brady taking the pressure off of him, the sky is the limit. 

 

But the rest of them are, like you said, products of the system. I would even go so far as to include White as one of the system players, as I dont see him as an all around good player that could succeed on any team. Hes a good west coast 3rd down RB. He's never going to be a workhorse back. Hes another interchangeable tool in the Patriots toolbox, much like Shane Vereen before him.

 

The Pats do a tremendous job of getting a bunch of different players who do one thing really well, and then they rotate players in to fit the gameplan they need for that specific week/quarter/drive. They play to a players strengths and never really ask them to do something out of their comfort zones. Its very frustrating as a Colts fan to watch this, as we seem to constantly try to fit square pegs in round holes when it comes to our players. 

 

[Jules]

8 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

*** runs off to start another Patriots related thread ***

 

Please hurry and start it, if we don't get enough Patriots threads in a week I get the shakes.

[BOTT]

Edelman is a very good player.  Not sure why some insist he isn't.

[Chrisaaron1023]

Any guy they get turns out a superstar.. they will challenge 18-0 again this season.. and I wont be watching lol

[King Colt]

Recall the "No Name Defense"? With their success the "No Name" handle should apply to their teams every year. They are the chef that turns out great meals regardless of the ingredients.

[AZColt11]

They're the best until proven otherwise.  They just completed a comeback for the ages in the Superbowl.  And they have now added Cooks.  I think they are still as good as anybody out there tbh.

[wizwor]

22 hours ago, Chucklez said:

Am i the only one that doesn't think the patriots offense is loaded with an embarrasment of riches? Just about every nfl journalist is all over them, but I just don't see it.  

 

Belichick is a coach who commits fully to having a cohesive team. As he said in Ron Jaworski’s book Games That Changed the Game, “It’s not about collecting talent, it’s about building a team. Some players fit better into one system or style of play than they do in another.”

[Chucklez]

Guys, I wasn't doubting that they will be good, if not the best offense in the AFC... I was saying that the players they have aren't all HOF players like the media are gushing over them to be.

 

They will be near or at the top of the afc offenses because of brady and belichick... not because the other players are superstars...

[2006Coltsbestever]

47 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

Guys, I wasn't doubting that they will be good, if not the best offense in the AFC... I was saying that the players they have aren't all HOF players like the media are gushing over them to be.

 

They will be near or at the top of the afc offenses because of brady and belichick... not because the other players are superstars...

Yeah I agree with your Posts but unfortunately Brady is like Peyton, you can put Highschool WR's with in with those 2 and they wouldn't lose a beat. I bet they Repeat.

[wizwor]

8 hours ago, Chucklez said:

Guys, I wasn't doubting that they will be good, if not the best offense in the AFC... I was saying that the players they have aren't all HOF players like the media are gushing over them to be.

 

They will be near or at the top of the afc offenses because of brady and belichick... not because the other players are superstars...

 

Your title is 'Patriots offense... meh?'  I think the offense will be amazing.  The most important characteristic of the players you listed is their ability to work with TB12.  They see the game as he sees it and react to the unanticipated just as he would expect.  We have had some very good players who did not work out, so I trust in the coach to find the pieces to build a team.  The offense will not be... meh.  Trust me.

[Chucklez]

13 hours ago, wizwor said:

 

Your title is 'Patriots offense... meh?'  I think the offense will be amazing.  The most important characteristic of the players you listed is their ability to work with TB12.  They see the game as he sees it and react to the unanticipated just as he would expect.  We have had some very good players who did not work out, so I trust in the coach to find the pieces to build a team.  The offense will not be... meh.  Trust me.

See my post above the one you quoted

[Yehoodi]

On 5/13/2017 at 7:18 AM, Chucklez said:

Guys, I wasn't doubting that they will be good, if not the best offense in the AFC... I was saying that the players they have aren't all HOF players like the media are gushing over them to be.

 

They will be near or at the top of the afc offenses because of brady and belichick... not because the other players are superstars...

 

I hear what you are saying Chucklez.  And yes sometimes the media heads love to get excited and say things and they go overboard, especially if they are front running and praising a team that is hot at a given moment in time. 

 

However, with this said, HOF or not, the pats have been known to ponied up some good offensive number in the past. 

 

Last year, the Pats put up the 3rd most points in the NFL without Gronk for a good portion of the season (altho we did have Bennett).   And this is true given the fact that we yielded the least amount of points, so we might of scored more.   When one is leading they call off the dogs, run the ball to shorten the game, as opposed to being in a tied game where you are still running offense trying to score.  

 

Now we add Cooks, a (hopefully) healthier Gronk, Mitchell in year two after coming on at the end of last year, and we have a solid offense, very likely better than last year with our Oline maturing.   

 

The Pats draft and keep players that work with with Brady, and generally excel a great deal and can pony up numbers which rival what HOF type players might do on other teams.  So HOF talent perhaps not, but very potent none the less.

 

With Cooks, Mitchell, Hogan, Edelman and Amendola, we have one our deepest WR cores in a long time.  With Gronk and White developing, and the new RBs, we should do at least as well as last season. 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

 

I hear what you are saying Chucklez.  And yes sometimes the media heads love to get excited and say things and they go overboard, especially if they are front running and praising a team that is hot at a given moment in time. 

 

However, with this said, HOF or not, the pats have been known to ponied up some good offensive number in the past. 

 

Last year, the Pats put up the 3rd most points in the NFL without Gronk for a good portion of the season (altho we did have Bennett).   And this is true given the fact that we yielded the least amount of points, so we might of scored more.   When one is leading they call off the dogs, run the ball to shorten the game, as opposed to being in a tied game where you are still running offense trying to score.  

 

Now we add Cooks, a (hopefully) healthier Gronk, Mitchell in year two after coming on at the end of last year, and we have a solid offense, very likely better than last year with our Oline maturing.   

 

The Pats draft and keep players that work with with Brady, and generally excel a great deal and can pony up numbers which rival what HOF type players might do on other teams.  So HOF talent perhaps not, but very potent none the less.

 

With Cooks, Mitchell, Hogan, Edelman and Amendola, we have one our deepest WR cores in a long time.  With Gronk and White developing, and the new RBs, we should do at least as well as last season. 

 

Brady is like Peyton, just give him half way decent WR's and he will rip most teams apart. Those QB's are among the best ever and can win with just good talent around them.

[Yehoodi]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Brady is like Peyton, just give him half way decent WR's and he will rip most teams apart. Those QB's are among the best ever and can win with just good talent around them.

 

Yes agree.  It is funny was thinking not to long ago, with Manning and Brady both having multiple 12 plus win seasons, one wonders if we will see other QBs having so many multi 12 wins seasons in the future. 

 

Time will tell. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Yehoodi said:

 

Yes agree.  It is funny was thinking not to long ago, with Manning and Brady both having multiple 12 plus win seasons, one wonders if we will see other QBs having so many multi 12 wins seasons in the future. 

 

Time will tell. 

I don't see it. I don't think anyone will ever win 5 SB's like Brady has and I believe he will win 6 actually. Peyton was a machine where you could always count on 12-4 and knew he would win you a SB or 2 as well. Montana was like that in the 80's as well, he won 4 SB's and had a 15-1 season in 1984 and 14-2 in 1989.

[GoPats]

 

I think anytime a Super Bowl winner more or less keeps its offense intact while adding someone like Cooks (and getting Gronk back) there will be a lot of media rumbling. 

 

I also disagree that Edelman is not a guy who would be successful elsewhere. Yes they brought him up through the system, but he's got physical traits that can't be taught. He's extremely quick and excels at getting open fast and in tight spaces. He may not be quite the guy he is in NE elsewhere, but I don't think he'd be a total bust in the NFL without the Patriots. 

 

 

[Synthetic]

 

Did I miss something on the Colts schedule this year? You play the Patriots some time, right? Wait, no? Okay...Still trying to figure out the big deal of the Pats obsession on here when you don't have to go through the torture of playing them this year. 

[will426]

Hmm wait they did great with hogan, amendola, Blount , white , Lewis ,Mitchell, Edelman ,Bennett , sprinkle in a little gronk..now let that sink in..they added two backs one power back with a good ypc, another Back who has good Ypc and can catch out of the backfield or slot, Dwayne Allen (who im sure is gonna be 100% healthy and catch 8+ Tds being used perfectly in that offense) and Cook who's one of the most if not the best Deep Threat receiver in NFL..just think they lost one person out of that and gained 4 good players they're going to feast on the league 

[Chrisaaron1023]

13 hours ago, Synthetic said:

 

Did I miss something on the Colts schedule this year? You play the Patriots some time, right? Wait, no? Okay...Still trying to figure out the big deal of the Pats obsession on here when you don't have to go through the torture of playing them this year. 

Lol they are the league, and will win it again.. that'd why they get some much "love" on the NFL general thread.

[weslo1812]

On 5/12/2017 at 1:17 AM, Chucklez said:

Am i the only one that doesn't think the patriots offense is loaded with an embarrasment of riches? Just about every nfl journalist is all over them, but I just don't see it. 

 

Obviously the following guys they have are very good: 

 

- Brady

- Cooks

- Gronk

- White

 

To me that's it though, every other player on that offense is soooo overated and are the products of tom brady:

 

- Lewis (not the same since the injury)

- Amendola (average player at best)

- Edelman (TB product, nothing special really)

- Hogan (... wouldn't start on half the teams in the nfl)

- Gillisee (...who?)

- Burkhead (.... I mean,  who?)

- Mitchell (I mean seriously guys, who are these people?)

- Dwayne Allen.... we all know about him. 

 

I've seen nfl journalists rave about the guys above as if they are all bound for the hall of fame or something... I just don't get it. 

 

Yes the Pats offense will be good,  it might even be one of the best in the afc this year, but let's be real it's not going to be that because of 'Gillisee' or 'Hogan'.... it'll be because of Tom Brady and we all know it. 

 

I guess I am just venting frustration that the entire nfl media world are just so far up the patriots' rear ends that they posting such biased nonsense and we're all subjected to it. 

Patriots don't need a lot of great players to be great or elite, they've shown it over the years. It's their ability to gameplan, make adjustments and properly use players to their strengths to maximize their productivity that takes them to the level they are at. And on top of that they have a guy like Brady to run the show on offense. Their coaching and preparation is one of a kind. And for this upcoming season I have no doubts they will be potent on offense and they will find some creative and effective ways to use Cooks. Then if they get so fortunate to keep Gronk healthy for the entire season it's really gonna be a struggle for opposing defenses. And right now there is no in the AFC who has shown they are capable of giving the Pats a run for their money, so as of right now I think the road back to the SB looks pretty easy for them. 

[HBA2]

On 5/12/2017 at 4:17 AM, Chucklez said:

Am i the only one that doesn't think the patriots offense is loaded with an embarrasment of riches? Just about every nfl journalist is all over them, but I just don't see it. 

 

Obviously the following guys they have are very good: 

 

- Brady

- Cooks

- Gronk

- White

 

To me that's it though, every other player on that offense is soooo overated and are the products of tom brady:

 

- Lewis (not the same since the injury)

- Amendola (average player at best)

- Edelman (TB product, nothing special really)

- Hogan (... wouldn't start on half the teams in the nfl)

- Gillisee (...who?)

- Burkhead (.... I mean,  who?)

- Mitchell (I mean seriously guys, who are these people?)

- Dwayne Allen.... we all know about him. 

 

I've seen nfl journalists rave about the guys above as if they are all bound for the hall of fame or something... I just don't get it. 

 

Yes the Pats offense will be good,  it might even be one of the best in the afc this year, but let's be real it's not going to be that because of 'Gillisee' or 'Hogan'.... it'll be because of Tom Brady and we all know it. 

 

I guess I am just venting frustration that the entire nfl media world are just so far up the patriots' rear ends that they posting such biased nonsense and we're all subjected to it. 

 

 

You just named 11 skill players who are all expected to contribute for them this year. Most teams don't even have 6 who are worth mentioning....

[Superman]

They added an electric receiver, and a functional and productive TE. They already had good backs, and were already one of the most efficient offenses in the league. They just added some explosiveness and the ability to rely on their favored 2 TE formations, assuming Gronk and Allen are healthy. 

 

Their offense is gonna be good.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

On 5/13/2017 at 7:18 AM, Chucklez said:

Guys, I wasn't doubting that they will be good, if not the best offense in the AFC... I was saying that the players they have aren't all HOF players like the media are gushing over them to be.

 

They will be near or at the top of the afc offenses because of brady and belichick... not because the other players are superstars...

 

I get what you're saying.  Not all of the players are elite, just a few like Brady and Gronk, but the offensive SYSTEM seems pretty elite to me.

 

They will, once again, take some average players and make them look great in their system.

 

But you have a point about the talent level.  This is not the same offense that had Tom Brady, Randy Moss and Matt Light.  Their OLine is a bunch of JAGs right now.