Brian Decker, Rex Hogan, Ed Dodds expected to join Colts

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I think that's a huge "maybe" as to whether he gets extended if he does a good job. It's not really that unusual for a head coach to be let go after a playoff loss, it seems to happen to at least one coach every year. Plus, extending him won't necessarily be a priority next offseason as he'll still have one more year left on his 4-year contract that he signed.

 

Won't he have two more years on his deal after this season? I think he will get at least one more of those...and wouldn't be surprised if he makes it through the deal.

 

I know people want to see Pagano fired (me included). But Ballard, who has shown little hesitation to overturn several pieces of the organization...including the roster and scouting...hasn't touched the coaching staff. If he wanted to get rid of Pagano, I think he would have done it. So either he likes Pagano and his coaches...or Irsay is tying his hands. Both point to a plan to have Pagano stick around.

 

Now things can change and certain guys could become available. But I don't see Ballard firing Pagano to hire someone like Toub.

[Superman]

Hogan worked with Ballard in Chicago for a long time, they were scouts together. Hogan also worked for Notre Dame football, had some kind of role associated with recruiting; he worked for Urban Meyer at Utah for one year. Not sure exactly what's on Hogan's resume, but Ballard knows his mind on players. I think that's a good move.

 

Dodds has worked with the Seahawks for a while, I'm not sure the connection between him and Ballard, but it's interesting that the Colts interviewed two other Seattle assistants for GM this year. Here's an interesting piece on how Dodds helped the Seahawks land Cyril Grayson before this year's draft. He's a thorough guy, it seems. https://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/04/14/seahawks-sign-lsu-sprinter-cyril-grayson-wide-receiver 

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Just now, shastamasta said:

 

Won't he have two more years on his deal after this season? I think he will get at least one more of those...and wouldn't be surprised if he makes it through the deal.

 

This is year 3 into Pagano's current 4-year deal.

[Larry Horseman]

6 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

This is year 3 into Pagano's current 4-year deal.

 

I don't think so. He was given the 4-year deal after the 2015 season (first 8-8 season). Edit: he is under contract through 2019 for sure. http://www.colts.com/news/article-notebook/Chuck-Pagano-Expects-To-Return-In-2017-Will-Meet-With-Jim-Irsay-Monday-Afternoon/d11743fd-3748-4dbe-97eb-ed10d9c3037c

[Larry Horseman]

The amount of positive response to all three hires makes me feel like CB really does get it. Can't wait to watch this roster develop over the next three years. I think the Colts compete even this year, but three years into this and the roster has a chance to be top tier. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

6 minutes ago, Larry Horseman said:

 

I don't think so. He was given the 4-year deal after the 2015 season (first 8-8 season). Edit: he is under contract through 2019 for sure. http://www.colts.com/news/article-notebook/Chuck-Pagano-Expects-To-Return-In-2017-Will-Meet-With-Jim-Irsay-Monday-Afternoon/d11743fd-3748-4dbe-97eb-ed10d9c3037c

 

Ah, you're right, I completely forgot about the lame duck season.

[shasta519]

20 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, I'm not done with the article yet, but that stood out to me also. 

 

I still have issues with some of Pagano's philosophy (his choice of OC hurts my feelings), and his game management has proven to be lacking at critical times, so I don't want to pretend that everything wrong with Pagano was Grigson's fault. But stuff like this suggests that Grigson hampered him in certain ways.

 

Of course, assuming that this is even referring to the Colts... 

 

In Grigs' defense (I can't believe I am typing that), it's not like other GMs were lining up to let this guy in the draft room. And, given the circumstances at the time,  he might had thought he didn't have the margin of error to try something new and radical that could possibly fail...even despite the recent contract extension. Who knows.

 

Ballard, on the other hand, would have that luxury. If Decker doesn't work out, Ballard can just move on. So while I applaud Ballard for wanting to try something new...I can also see Grigs' viewpoint (if he was actually the GM mentioned in the story).

 

I do believe that Grigs hindered in Pagano is many ways...and that could have been one example. But I also believe that Pagano has had significant influence on the roster over the recent years. 

[bababooey]

4 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Nothing is going to be on hush.

#1 fact-Pagano has yet to have a losing season

#2 fact-Pagano has one of the best starting records of any head coach in NFL history including Belichick

#3 fact-Pagano is well liked by his players

#4 fact-Ballard has already said he liked Pagano as head coach and there are no plans to fire him

#5 fact-Like it or not the Pagano haters (such as yourself) Pagano's  the head coach of the Colts.

End of story.

#6 Fact - Pagano can't beat Pittsburgh or New England. He could win 11 games and if they get blown out in the playoffs by New England again and another HC is available he's gone.

[shasta519]

I didn't really know a lot about Dodds or Hogan. So for anyone cares...here's some information I found:

 

Sounds like Dodds was an area scout in the midsouth (~7 years) and then a national scout for the middle part of the country (~1 year). He then worked his way up to an executive position that covered some aspects of pro personnel and college scouting (~2 years). He played a big role in drafting Frank Clark.

 

Sounds like Hogan was a college scout in the northeast, mid-Atlantic and southeast regions (~9 years). He was a huge proponent of bringing Cutler to the Bears, given his ties to Vanderbilt. He then worked his way up to national scout for the Western half of the country (~3 years). He was let go from that position when Ryan Pace became GM and was hired by the NYJ to be their Director of College Scouting.

 

As for their track records, both guys seem to have hits and misses from their respective scouting areas at the time…as you would expect. I think they are both good hires, but really, it won't matter until we see them in action for the Colts

 

Interestingly, both Ballard and Dodds were part of teams that drafted players who were arrested for domestic violence.

[Dingus McGirt]

17 hours ago, TKnight24 said:

 

Should be saving ALL players from injury.  LOL

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

16 hours ago, ManningGM said:

I'm sorry but Chuck is such a goner next year, our front office hirings are already outclassing his joke of a coaching staff. 

 

 

AHHH Chucks staff is actually really good!!! Your comment is the joke!!

[Dingus McGirt]

Would expect Ballard to build the roster he wants, then hand the keys over to Pagano.  If he doesn't produce...

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, bababooey said:

#6 Fact - Pagano can't beat Pittsburgh or New England. He could win 11 games and if they get blown out in the playoffs by New England again and another HC is available he's gone.

 

Actually, the part about firing Pagano is an opinion, and not a fact.      It may be the correct opinion and happen just as you predict,    but that's only an opinion for now....

 

[bababooey]

54 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Actually, the part about firing Pagano is an opinion, and not a fact.      It may be the correct opinion and happen just as you predict,    but that's only an opinion for now....

 

Ok, the fact is he has not beaten those teams in five years. Not even close. I think most would agree if he makes the playoffs only to get blown out by either one of them it's more likely than not the end for him if someone else better is available.

[NewColtsFan]

14 minutes ago, bababooey said:

Ok, the fact is he has not beaten those teams in five years. Not even close. I think most would agree if he makes the playoffs only to get blown out by either one of them it's more likely than not the end for him if someone else better is available.

 

Perhaps.....

 

But there are a couple of key elements here....   one,  is there someone else who is better that is available?

 

Typically yes,  but not always...

 

And the other point is....   during the regular season,  how did the team play?     Getting blown out in the playoffs against a superior team is one thing,   but when it's year one of trying to rebuild a rebuild a roster is quite another.

 

To bel clear,  I think it's a better than 50-50 shot that Pagano goes after this year....   but I'm not yet ready to make it 90-10 as some here seem willing to do....

 

[SDakColts]

 

[Shive]

11 hours ago, LockeDown said:

Decker and Ballard seem similar in their approach.  It might be a good fit.  That was a really interesting article.

After reading the article, he sounds like a perfect match for Ballard. I'm amped to have him in the FO.

 

[dodsworth]

3 hours ago, bababooey said:

#6 Fact - Pagano can't beat Pittsburgh or New England. He could win 11 games and if they get blown out in the playoffs by New England again and another HC is available he's gone.

Gotta find someone who can compete with NE.

If we can do that then we can win titles. The AFC

goes through the Pats.

[BOTT]

7 hours ago, lester said:

 

No, he didn't.

 

But it is possible, very possible, that Grigson's instructions complicated the ability for Pagano to make the 'smart' decisions. You and I will not ever know what kind of 'meddling' Grigson was capable of and we will not ever know what expectations and culture were heaped on Pagano by his former boss. We just will never know.

 

What we DO know is:

 

• Chuck Pagano has yet to have a losing season
• Chuck Pagano has one of the best starting records of any head coach in NFL history including Bill Belichick
• Chuck Pagano is well liked by his players
• Chris Ballard has already said he likes Chuck Pagano as head coach and there are no plans to fire him
• Pagano was retained as the head coach of the Colts even when a new GM was brought on board.

 

I think we have a great opportunity to actually, finally see Chuck Pagano's real ability this year. For the good, or the bad. But I think he is positioned to finally show growth...

 

Defend TRich

Defend Werner

Defend Grigson

Now the forum is in defend Chuck mode

 

im guessing the forum will be 0-4

[crazycolt1]

8 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Yeah cause Ballard is gonna tell everyone he hates chuck and is gonna fire him. He hasn't had a losing season yet cause he has had luck or hassselbeck to bail him out 

He had a 8-8 season with 5 different QBs. He started a QB who wasn't even in the NFL 2 weeks before and won a game with him.  Don't let facts get in the way of your inability to see or face facts.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, BOTT said:

Defend TRich

Defend Werner

Defend Grigson

Now the forum is in defend Chuck mode

 

im guessing the forum will be 0-4

 

We're talking about Pagano.

 

Why does anyone have to defend TRich or Werner or Grigson?

 

The forum knows what's going on with Pagano,   that's his odds are less than 50-50,  but it's not fun when some members want to act like vultures circling above waiting for the person to die.     

 

We've already had the owner come out and say the team's record is not going to be the ultimate fact on whether Pagano stays or goes....

 

All people are asking is to let 2017 play out.    If Pagano does a poor job,  he goes.    If Pagano does a good job, there's a chance he stays.     How strong that chance is nobody knows....

 

[Colts_Fan12]

2 hours ago, BOTT said:

Defend TRich

Defend Werner

Defend Grigson

Now the forum is in defend Chuck mode

 

im guessing the forum will be 0-4

Great post lol

[BOTT]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We're talking about Pagano.

 

Why does anyone have to defend TRich or Werner or Grigson?

 

The forum knows what's going on with Pagano,   that's his odds are less than 50-50,  but it's not fun when some members want to act like vultures circling above waiting for the person to die.     

 

We've already had the owner come out and say the team's record is not going to be the ultimate fact on whether Pagano stays or goes....

 

All people are asking is to let 2017 play out.    If Pagano does a poor job,  he goes.    If Pagano does a good job, there's a chance he stays.     How strong that chance is nobody knows....

 

They defended the likes of TRich and Grigson even when it becoame obvious they weren't up to the job.  I believe it's the same with Pagano.

 

This is where people come to shoot the bull about football.  If some want to let Chuck have it, so be it.  We can't eat him.

[crazycolt1]

9 hours ago, John Waylon said:

 

Well, our history of injuries cant get worse (Right? Right?...) so whatever. I'll hope for the best, but I won't hold my breath.

 

 

The homeless guy drafted manziel, remember?

I guess you didn't bother to read the article.

[Finball]

Decker is pretty damn intriguing hire.

 

Though I find it interesting/funny that their 1st round picks in 2014 were Manziel and Justin Gilbert.

[akcolt]

22 hours ago, dodsworth said:

I wasn't high on another reject from Cleveland but

after this article it gives me a bit of hope.

still questioning their Manziel pick while he was there?

If you take the time to read the article the answer to your question is there. What rejects from Cleveland are you talking about? DQ and Adams weren't so bad for the Colts. They got old that happens to us all and neither will be back this season. Is it Chud? 

[dodsworth]

53 minutes ago, akcolt said:

If you take the time to read the article the answer to your question is there. What rejects from Cleveland are you talking about? DQ and Adams weren't so bad for the Colts. They got old that happens to us all and neither will be back this season. Is it Chud? 

Adams was from the Broncos, Chud was an upgrade over Pep

but his slow forming long routes are getting Luck killed and

T Rich is the trade that set us back for years of progress.

 

It seems they hoodwinked us on a couple more players

but I don't have time to look it up.

[lester]

12 hours ago, BOTT said:

Defend TRich

Defend Werner

Defend Grigson

Now the forum is in defend Chuck mode

 

im guessing the forum will be 0-4

 

TRich - Busted 1st rounder who we traded a 1st round pick for. The guy who drafted him is gone.

Werner - Busted 1st rounder who is out of the league 3 years later. The guy who drafted him is gone.

Grigson - The former GM of the Indianapolis Colts. He was fired for wasting valuable draft capital, bullying the subordinate leaders on his team, and being unaccountable for the culture he created.

 

What does any of this have to do with Chuck?

 

Look, I know we all come from diverse backgrounds and are all at different stages in our lives and livlihoods. Our personal and professional experiences all differ as much as we differ as humans from each other. And on a public discussion forum, its heard to know which viewpoint each is coming from. At my point in my life right now, I am a guy who builds large organizations - and I am telling you now that in my expert, professional opinion, it is very possible for a GM/Pres/CEO to create the kind of culture where other leaders in the organization are unable to succeed, even if they should otherwise be considered high-performers.

 

The culture, environment, and leadership climate could have absolutely made it impossible for Chuck Pagano to win. Or, he might just be a poor coach. What we (you and I) do not know are what kind of instructions came from Grigson - it might have been like this, "You better pull out some trick play nonsense against the Patriots because I want to win. If you don't fool Bellicheck, you're fired, etc." - or - "You better show me some long range aerobatics with Luck and TY Hilton to start this game or else... etc". None of us on this forum KNOW what the climate was like coming from Grigson - but we have heard rumors and seen some clues. We all know it was bad enough to get Grigson fired but the Coaching staff stayed the same.

 

So, I think it is fair to suggest that Chuck Pagano is still here for a couple of easy to understand reasons.

 

Maybe one of these:

 

1. Irsay believes Grigson damaged Pagano. So, Pagano is still here to show if he is the guy Irsay thinks he still is.

2. Irsay wants to replace Chuck but can't find anyone who will take the job who might be better.

3. Irsay knows that constant regime change destroys organizations. Even an incremental upgrade from Pagano would be a set-back because constant change is not the path to greatness.

4. Ballard *actually* likes Pagano and would have chosen him if he were to do a coach search today.

5. Irsay needs money and can't afford to pay dead money to 2 former employees at the same time.

6. Irsay likes Pagano like the son he never had. they like to spend time at the Zoo together.

 

But none of us really know. But some of us know how to build high performing teams (albeit, not necessarily in the NFL, for sure, but rather in Corporate America). And it is my opinion that Pagano is finally in a position to perform at his best (not someone else's worst). This season will tell us if Chcuk Pagano's best is good enough.

 

[B~Town]

23 hours ago, ManningGM said:

Can't wait to see all the Pagano apologists be on hush mode next season. The fact that some of y'all think Grigson being fired will magically fix his inept game planning is comical.

Just remember 2 of the best coaches in the NFL did less with more must prepare for many years of Pagano .

[ColtsBlitz]

Not familiar with either, but highly reputable it seems. Look forward to the front office and how it helps this team. 

[backshoulderfade]

Continuing to add more highly respected executives.

[John Waylon]

 

Well, our history of injuries cant get worse (Right? Right?...) so whatever. I'll hope for the best, but I won't hold my breath.

 

 

The homeless guy drafted manziel, remember?

I guess you didn't bother to read the article.

 

I guess you failed to pick up on the obvious sarcasm.

 

 

*

[ColtsBlitz]

11 hours ago, BOTT said:

They defended the likes of TRich and Grigson even when it becoame obvious they weren't up to the job.  I believe it's the same with Pagano.

 

This is where people come to shoot the bull about football.  If some want to let Chuck have it, so be it.  We can't eat him.

2 ways to me Chuck loses his job:

   1) He makes mistakes with clock management again or another in-game coaching error

   2) He doesn't make playoffs and/or win 1 playoff game

   2) He says "They can't eat you" again. 

[stitches]

Here's an interview with Ed Dodds if you want to have a bit of an introduction to him(background in football, what he values in players, etc.):

 

http://www.seahawks.com/video/2016/04/28/2016-nfl-draft-ed-dodds-interview

 

And here's Morocco Brown giving motivational speech for NC State football players:

 

 

[Shive]

9 hours ago, Finball said:

Decker is pretty damn intriguing hire.

 

Though I find it interesting/funny that their 1st round picks in 2014 were Manziel and Justin Gilbert.

From what the article implied, I think he gave his evaluations to the Browns FO and they chose not to listen. Those guys weren't the ones that brought him in, so they most likely didn't buy into his models or philosophy and well....did what the Browns usually do, screwed it all up.

 

I think in a FO that understands and values his models and perspective, he could be extremely valuable.

[21isSuperman]

18 hours ago, SDakColts said:

 

Makes you wonder why his name hasn't been getting more attention for GM vacancies in the last couple of years

[Indyfan4life]

5 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Makes you wonder why his name hasn't been getting more attention for GM vacancies in the last couple of years

Possibly he wasn't interested in GM roles?

[21isSuperman]

2 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

Possibly he wasn't interested in GM roles?

Could be.  I'm not trying to be the party pooper or anything.  But if someone is known around the league as possibly the very best evaluator, you'd think any team with a GM vacancy would have tried to lure him to their team

[Indyfan4life]

26 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Could be.  I'm not trying to be the party pooper or anything.  But if someone is known around the league as possibly the very best evaluator, you'd think any team with a GM vacancy would have tried to lure him to their team

I gotcha. Didn't mean to sound smart if I did. Some people just aren't interested in that position. I would assume. 

[21isSuperman]

37 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

I gotcha. Didn't mean to sound smart if I did. Some people just aren't interested in that position. I would assume. 

No offense taken, bud.  Either way, I'm glad he's on our side!