Colts have 'had discussions' of moving T.J. Green to CB

[RockThatBlue]

Interesting

 

http://coltswire.usatoday.com/2017/05/05/indianapolis-colts-had-discussions-moving-t-j-green/

[Colts1324]

My problem with that is, why move a safety that can't cover to CB? 

[krunk]

He has the athleticism to do it, but he has problems  tracking the football.

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

My problem with that is, why move a safety that can't cover to CB? 

 

That's an excellent question.

 

I'd also like to know why we're making a story out of a throwaway line in response to a press conference question. 

[dw49]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's an excellent question.

 

I'd also like to know why we're making a story out of a throwaway line in response to a press conference question. 

 

 

I guess they would consider it because they really like Geathers at SS ? So Green is going to be a back up safety .Thus he would see the field more as a CB ?

 

As to the "can't cover" issue , he's not exactly a great run defender either. So if he can't tackle and can't cover , it really doesn't matter where you play him. 

[Dark Superman]

I like bringing him in on special packages. Bring him in on blitzes, or to possibly cover bigger receivers and tight ends. I would move him all around the field. He certainly has good speed and size and can definitely help against the run. Hopefully his cover skills continue to improve.

[krunk]

Outside of dime linebacker I'm not 100 percent sure what TJ best spot is.

[Superman]

18 minutes ago, dw49 said:

I guess they would consider it because they really like Geathers at SS ? So Green is going to be a back up safety .Thus he would see the field more as a CB ?

 

As to the "can't cover" issue , he's not exactly a great run defender either. So if he can't tackle and can't cover , it really doesn't matter where you play him. 

 

Personally, I don't necessarily agree that he can't cover. He's not great at it, but his main issue is tracking the ball while staying engaged with the receiver. I also don't agree that he can't tackle, but he definitely lacks discipline and has poor technique. I don't think he's a lost cause in either regard, but he sure has a long way to go.

 

Green is a backup on my depth chart, but backups get reps. He was a backup last year and got on the field way sooner than he should have. There are sub packages in which he'll get reps. 

 

There's also the possibility that he'll get better in Year 2.

[lester]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

There's also the possibility that he'll get better in Year 2.

 

That is a certainty. And his 'poor' performance last season will only accelerate that.

[dw49]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Personally, I don't necessarily agree that he can't cover. He's not great at it, but his main issue is tracking the ball while staying engaged with the receiver. I also don't agree that he can't tackle, but he definitely lacks discipline and has poor technique. I don't think he's a lost cause in either regard, but he sure has a long way to go.

 

Green is a backup on my depth chart, but backups get reps. He was a backup last year and got on the field way sooner than he should have. There are sub packages in which he'll get reps. 

 

There's also the possibility that he'll get better in Year 2.

 

 

I was mostly just trying to bring some humor to the thread. 

 I have no idea of Green has a future in the NFL . What I do know is he did not get better as the year progressed . So I'm kind of just figuring any contribution from Green is a bonus.

[#12.]

21 minutes ago, Superman said:

There's also the possibility that he'll get better in Year 2.

 

Anything is possible, but I feel the same as I did after a year of Richardson and Werner.  My guess is he isn't long for the NFL.  

[ColtsFanMikeC]

32 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

I guess they would consider it because they really like Geathers at SS ? So Green is going to be a back up safety .Thus he would see the field more as a CB ?

 

As to the "can't cover" issue , he's not exactly a great run defender either. So if he can't tackle and can't cover , it really doesn't matter where you play him. 

 

Green was drafted as a freak athlete with a lot of potential.   As superman says below, he got stuck being on the field last year before he was ready.  He was a development guy, we all knew that coming in - I think it's too early to write him off on anything yet (he only had 1 season as a starting safety in college).  He's got the physical skill set, he now needs NFL discipline and more football know-how. 

 

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Personally, I don't necessarily agree that he can't cover. He's not great at it, but his main issue is tracking the ball while staying engaged with the receiver. I also don't agree that he can't tackle, but he definitely lacks discipline and has poor technique. I don't think he's a lost cause in either regard, but he sure has a long way to go.

 

Green is a backup on my depth chart, but backups get reps. He was a backup last year and got on the field way sooner than he should have. There are sub packages in which he'll get reps. 

 

There's also the possibility that he'll get better in Year 2.

 

If Vontae stays healthy, and if Quincy Wilson emerges as a solid #2 CB on the outside we should have the option of running plenty of different packages in the middle with Geathers, Hooker, Butler and Green. 

 

I agree with you, on a traditional depth chart, he would be a back-up right now.  However, with that group of 4, I expect that Monachino is already working on designing packages to allow all 4 of those guys on the field at once as it seems like Hooker is really the true FS, Butler (IMO) is best suited as a nickel CB, and Geathers and Green both have physical traits which allow for them to be hybrids.With our LB corp (IMO) being the weakest position group on the team, and because there are teams we will need to beat if we want to win certain games who have dual threats at TE, I am assuming Green will be used a lot this year in ways that traditional safeties aren't used.

 

I also agree with you, there is a possibility he will get better in year 2... I think it's a strong possibility.

 

 

 

 

[#12.]

1 minute ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Green was drafted as a freak athlete with a lot of potential.   

 

 

 

 

The guy who made that questionable decision is out of the league.  Ballard has nothing invested in Green, and expecting Ballard to show years of patience with a Grigson project player, given everything I think I know about Ballard, seems like pure fantasy to me.  

[Superman]

36 minutes ago, dw49 said:

I was mostly just trying to bring some humor to the thread. 

 I have no idea of Green has a future in the NFL . What I do know is he did not get better as the year progressed . So I'm kind of just figuring any contribution from Green is a bonus.

 

Understood. I thought he showed some progress for a few weeks, then kind of regressed in the last three weeks. 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, #12. said:

The guy who made that questionable decision is out of the league.  Ballard has nothing invested in Green, and expecting Ballard to show years of patience with a Grigson project player, given everything I think I know about Ballard, seems like pure fantasy to me.  

 

How about one year, for a guy with considerable physical traits who was thrown into a starting role before he was ready?

 

What's absolutely true is that -- whether Ballard has something invested in him or not -- he's not going to stick with Green just because. The Chiefs cut their own third round pick last season, a highly regarded corner who didn't bring it in camp. There's no question that if Green doesn't look right through preseason and gets outplayed by other guys, he'll be on the chopping block.

[#12.]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

How about one year, for a guy with considerable physical traits who was thrown into a starting role before he was ready?

 

What's absolutely true is that -- whether Ballard has something invested in him or not -- he's not going to stick with Green just because. The Chiefs cut their own third round pick last season, a highly regarded corner who didn't bring it in camp. There's no question that if Green doesn't look right through preseason and gets outplayed by other guys, he'll be on the chopping block.

Yep.  We're in agreement. 

[dw49]

29 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

How about one year, for a guy with considerable physical traits who was thrown into a starting role before he was ready?

 

What's absolutely true is that -- whether Ballard has something invested in him or not -- he's not going to stick with Green just because. The Chiefs cut their own third round pick last season, a highly regarded corner who didn't bring it in camp. There's no question that if Green doesn't look right through preseason and gets outplayed by other guys, he'll be on the chopping block.

 

 

True. I guess kind of crazy when you draft a guy as a "developmental " prospect and he's thrown into the starting lineup. I guess when you have a bad roster and injuries , this kind of thing happens.

[Blueblood23]

52 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

Anything is possible, but I feel the same as I did after a year of Richardson and Werner.  My guess is he isn't long for the NFL.  

I agree he won't be a Colt much longer. His replacement has already been drafted or signed as a free agent.

[AZColt11]

Right now he's best used as a ST guy but it doesn't mean he can't still develop.  Why people are so willing to cut ties on a guy just entering his 2nd season is beyond me.  Some guys catch on earlier, some take a few years.  I know this is hard for some, but try PATIENCE.

[Blueblood23]

15 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

Right now he's best used as a ST guy but it doesn't mean he can't still develop.  Why people are so willing to cut ties on a guy just entering his 2nd season is beyond me.  Some guys catch on earlier, some take a few years.  I know this is hard for some, but try PATIENCE.

He was rated as the worst safety in the league last year. He was a second round draft pick. I would expect Ballard won't keep him around unless he really picks his play up soon.

[AZColt11]

3 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

He was rated as the worst safety in the league last year. He was a second round draft pick. I would expect Ballard won't keep him around unless he really picks his play up soon.

Well there's no doubt he will need to show some improvement this year or he'll be gone.  But I also don't expect him to be a ProBowler just yet.  I am curious to see what an off-season does for him as he has said he was thinking too much last season rather than just using his athleticism and reacting.  He is an athletic freak to be sure.

[Stephen]

Special teams gunner

[ColtsFanMikeC]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

The guy who made that questionable decision is out of the league.  Ballard has nothing invested in Green, and expecting Ballard to show years of patience with a Grigson project player, given everything I think I know about Ballard, seems like pure fantasy to me.  

 

I didn't say I expect Ballard to show years of patience with him, not sure where you're getting that from.  The guy certainly has physical potential and the physical tools, he is young (came out of college early) and had only 1 starting season in the position.  He was drafted (by Grigson and Pagano) as a developmental player, Pagano has a track record of helping DBs develop.  He got thrown into the line-up before he was ready.  All I said was it's too early to write him off.  If the coaches and personnel still see potential in him this year and he's not ready to be a starter, but he can contribute as a ST player and play a limited role in helping the defense, I expect they'll keep him around (it's not like Farley, Hightower and Williamson are going to be loads better as back-ups).  As far as 'years of patience', if he's not showing consistent development and growth, then there is no reason for him to stick around for years.

 

31 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

He was rated as the worst safety in the league last year. He was a second round draft pick. I would expect Ballard won't keep him around unless he really picks his play up soon.

 

See my response to #12.  He was rated as the worst safety by PFF (which we all know is a tool that is useful in certain instances but has plenty of its own flaws), you're right.  That said, both Grigson and the coaching staff were not expecting him to be seeing the field on defense as a rookie and because our depth in the secondary was lacking so much, he got thrust into a starting role far before he had adjusted to the NFL.  To his credit, our whole defense was not very good last year (we were 19th in the league in sacks and failure to pressure the opposing QB makes a safety's job difficult in the passing game, the only LB on the team that consistently played pretty well was Walden and having bad LBs and a make-shift DL does not help safeties in the run game, our FA hope to be the #2 CB, Patrick Robinson, was a bust and Vontae missed 2 games, Adams missed 1 game, Geathers missed 7 games, so he was playing with a bunch of DBs we basically signed off the streets which doesn't help a safety out).  

 

I'm not saying give the kid forever to turn this all around, but it is too early to write him off as a bust just yet.  Let's keep our fingers crossed that he does get much better in terms of football knowledge and applying his raw physical skill set to his performance, that would be a great thing for our team. 

[NewColtsFan]

 

When a player is this young and inexperienced and has such physical tools as Green does,   I think all of the talk of cutting him is very, very premature.

 

Like Dorsett,  I'd hate to see the Colts cut Green too soon,  and have him succeed with another team.    I don't see such talent not he roster yet that Green can stay on as a back-up......

 

I'm pulling for him....

 

[Blueblood23]

28 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

When a player is this young and inexperienced and has such physical tools as Green does,   I think all of the talk of cutting him is very, very premature.

 

Like Dorsett,  I'd hate to see the Colts cut Green too soon,  and have him succeed with another team.    I don't see such talent not he roster yet that Green can stay on as a back-up......

 

I'm pulling for him....

 

I don't see being cut this year, but this is probably his last year as a Colt. I truly believe he is a bust. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

[Smonroe]

36 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

When a player is this young and inexperienced and has such physical tools as Green does,   I think all of the talk of cutting him is very, very premature.

 

Like Dorsett,  I'd hate to see the Colts cut Green too soon,  and have him succeed with another team.    I don't see such talent not he roster yet that Green can stay on as a back-up......

 

I'm pulling for him....

 

 

I am too.  But how long do you wait to see if a player lives up to his potential?  I'd say the length of his rookie contract.  

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Special teams gunner

 

He could be our new Sergio Brown!!!   A highly expensive one in terms of draft pick given up though.

 

I'd say ask him to put on a lot of weight and see if he can track the QB if he can't track the ball. We could always use a pass rusher. 6'2" 209 can be transformed to 6'2" 230 and situational pass rusher. 

[Stephen]

53 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

He could be our new Sergio Brown!!!   A highly expensive one in terms of draft pick given up though.

 

I'd say ask him to put on a lot of weight and see if he can track the QB if he can't track the ball. We could always use a pass rusher. 6'2" 209 can be transformed to 6'2" 230 and situational pass rusher. 

Pass rusher with 4.3 speed would to tough to stop

[Smoke317]

Ballard may not have drafted him but he certainly checks off the boxes for what he likes in draft picks. Great size and great speed and great athleticism. The key one that we don't know fully yet is can he catch the ball???  If he shows that he can catch the ball, I see Ballard keeping him and letting him continue to develop. 

 

I think the the big thing that he lacks (as opposed to Hooker) is natural instincts. Hooker sees it, trusts his eyes and instincts and goes. Thus he's in position early to make plays on the ball. Green was indeed thinking too much last year and was often slow to react and was thus trailing and chasing plays last year. I don't know if that can be coached up or not. He's most certainly not afraid of contact.

 

I think his future may ultimately be as a SS.  If he can learn to be physical at the point of attack like Wilson, his coverage of TE's would improve drastically. I hope he's paying attention at camp this year because it's some guys on the roster who's traits he should be trying to emulate (Wilson's physicality at the line, Hooker & Butler's anticipation, and the way Geathers takes the proper angles and still makes big hits but with composure). Our coaches need to be emphasizing these things to him. 

[AKB]

I see TJ as primarily playing in sub packages, and special teams.

[COLTS449]

I personally don't think he ever amounts to ___, but JMO. Say what you want about his height-weight-speed. But he was just terrible, and we drafted him....OVER drafted him on those physical traits alone. If we wanted a developmental S why not Sean Davis, who was clearly more talented ???? What about Cody Whitehair who would've given us a top 10 OL. Or Deion Jones who would have given us a dynamic playmaker at ILB...Or moving up  2-3 spots for a beast WR like Michael Thomas ????? Didn't list Bradberry as I see him as a product of Carolina's scheme, but he was very good every game I watched Carolina play, but he's not really a press man kinda kid.

 

Castanzo - Mewhort - Kelly - Whitehair - Haeg/Clark......= A top 10 O-Line LAST YEAR. Probably top 5 this year.

 

Or moving up for Thomas. Wow. Andrew Luck with Thomas - Hilton - Moncrief - Dorsett at WR......Yeah.....

[stitches]

The weird thing is... Green fits exactly Ballard's physical and athletic profile for a DB. He's big, he's tall and long and he's a freaking lightening on the field. On the other hand, he's horrible at the other trait that Ballard seems to value - ball-skills and turnover ability.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how much leeway he's going to get and what the plan for him is. I wonder if bulking up and trying him at LB wouldn't be a better fit for him than safety or CB. He just seems more comfortable closer to the LoS to me. Everytime he needs to chase on the backfield or track balls in the air, it's an unmitigated disaster.

[Albaby]

I'm for whatever will improve the team.  This looks like the very example of competitive ideas.  It's worth a try.

[braveheartcolt]

Oh how I dream. Dream to read a thread about players where we don't flagellate Grigson. How about we move on?

[Albaby]

4 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Oh how I dream. Dream to read a thread about players where we don't flagellate Grigson. How about we move on?

Damn right!

[UKColt13]

Those discussions probably went as follows.

 

Defensive Assistant: "We could move 32 back to corner?"

Ballard: "Can he cover?"

Defensive Assistant: "Not really"

Ballard: "Ball skills?"

Defensive Assistant: "Eh"

Ballard: "Then let's not"

Defensive Assistant: "He's big and fast!"

Ballard: "Get out of my office"

[life long]

14 hours ago, Blueblood23 said:

He was rated as the worst safety in the league last year. He was a second round draft pick. I would expect Ballard won't keep him around unless he really picks his play up soon.

You could have said the same exact thing about landon collins. Year 2 green "could" have a similar jump in production. I just hope our coaches start using guys more appropriately (green & dorsett)

[jameszeigler834]

17 hours ago, Colts1324 said:

My problem with that is, why move a safety that can't cover to CB? 

My problem with that is not only cant he cover but he cant tackle either.

[Defjamz26]

17 hours ago, krunk said:

Outside of dime linebacker I'm not 100 percent sure what TJ best spot is.

Special Teams

[Jdubu]

15 hours ago, AZColt11 said:

Right now he's best used as a ST guy but it doesn't mean he can't still develop.  Why people are so willing to cut ties on a guy just entering his 2nd season is beyond me.  Some guys catch on earlier, some take a few years.  I know this is hard for some, but try PATIENCE.

Reasons are as follows:

1. It was a Griggson pick

2. He was a high draft pick

3. Ballard can draft way better than Griggson

4. All of Ballards picks will be superior to all Griggson picks

5. It was a Griggson pick

6. It was a Griggson pick

7. It was a Griggson pick

 

So many people here just can't seem to understand that the guy was chosen for his potential, right or wrong. Ballard took 2 of those guys in this draft and you could argue that he took 3-4 maybe. What if those guys stink it up in their first year? Do we cast those guys aside after one year as well and claim Ballard has no clue what he is drafting? There is no doubt that Green struggled but quite honestly, who in that secondary didn't last season? With his size/speed combo, there is no way he gets cut loose because of one season of poor play. Now if he cleans some up in preseason and shows he has studied and growth, he will continue on the team. If he appears he is still lost and no growth, he goes strictly to special teams and evaluated after the 2nd season. He is no worse of a player than some 6th rounder they give a couple years on the team as depth and special teams. He may or may not make the team long term but most here think he is a poor player because he was a Griggson pick and didn't make the pro bowl after his first year even though the team tempered expectations right after he was drafted as a high ceiling developmental player taken in a higher round. If he was a 7th rounder, nobody would have blinked an eye and would have said he struggled but he was a 7th rounder, give him another year with that size/speed ratio.

 

A pick is a pick once on the team and it doesn't matter where they were drafted, they are just players after that. Where you differ their value is once they get on that 2nd contract. If the guy is a Griggson player and he just got signed to a 5yr 60 million dollar contract and he stunk it up last season, he gets a serious look as to whether he is cuttable or not because of his production. Draft picks should get more than 1 season to see how they develop.