Kamar Aiken

[TKnight24]

 

[lollygagger8]

I'm probably in the minority, but to me, Aiken is the most exciting signing after Hankins. 

[DaColts85]

I am all about bringing in competition at the WR spot.  We had a ridiculous number of drops and horrible play last year from this position.  We need players who are dependable not named TY.  I am hoping for another great year from Doyle and TY, plus Moncrief and Aiken becoming big body position receivers for us.  Other t han that we could try and get Dorsett to become an asset with slot routes and maybe ST.

[HOZER]

I like his confidence, he knows it's time to put his head down and do work! Good luck to him!

[PrincetonTiger]

7 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

I'm probably in the minority, but to me, Aiken is the most exciting signing after Hankins. 

I love the signing

[indyagent17]

I wonder why he does not have a number yet. everyone signed since him has one already even Allie-Cox (49)

 

Just odd and something to talk about until Thursday

[shakedownstreet]

This is so awsome, I [BLEEP] myself!

[shasta519]

28 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

I wonder why he does not have a number yet. everyone signed since him has one already even Allie-Cox (49)

 

Just odd and something to talk about until Thursday

 

He is just waiting for Ballard to finalize a deal for Dorsett...and he's going to wear #15. At least that's how I heard it.

[indyagent17]

22 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

He is just waiting for Ballard to finalize a deal for Dorsett...and he's going to wear #15. At least that's how I heard it.

Now, where did you here that?

[Nesjan3]

I wouldn't be surprised one little bit if a trade involving Dorsett happened on draft day. He has not lived up to #1 pick status and i dont think he ever will, Ballard might be looking to get what he can while he can for him. The signing of Aiken only reinforces this theory.

[MB-ColtsFan]

51 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

I wouldn't be surprised one little bit if a trade involving Dorsett happened on draft day. He has not lived up to #1 pick status and i dont think he ever will, Ballard might be looking to get what he can while he can for him. The signing of Aiken only reinforces this theory.

I just don't think we will get anything more than possibly a 5th or 6th for him?  He's still on his rookie contract for another couple of years, so he's cheap, but his production doesn't warrant anything more, in my opinion (which ain't worth much).

Teams thinking a change in location/coaching might want to take a chance on him, but I don't see it.

[shasta519]

8 minutes ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

I just don't think we will get anything more than possibly a 5th or 6th for him?  He's still on his rookie contract for another couple of years, so he's cheap, but his production doesn't warrant anything more, in my opinion (which ain't worth much).

Teams thinking a change in location/coaching might want to take a chance on him, but I don't see it.

 

You might be able to get the equivalent of a 4th round pick in a trade up. For example, pairing Dorsett with one of the 4th round picks to get another 3rd round pick.

 

I do agree that he doesn't have a ton of value. But he does have two more years on his rookie deal...and the team trading him would only be paying his base salary...~$1.2M per year. Some team with little depth at WR would be interested. But it probably wouldn't be worth it to Ballard.

[throwing BBZ]

24 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

You might be able to get the equivalent of a 4th round pick in a trade up. For example, pairing Dorsett with one of the 4th round picks to get another 3rd round pick.

 

I do agree that he doesn't have a ton of value. But he does have two more years on his rookie deal...and the team trading him would only be paying his base salary...~$1.2M per year. Some team with little depth at WR would be interested. But it probably wouldn't be worth it to Ballard.

 

 He and Parry need to be moved.
Throw in Vontae & Mewhort while i`m at it.  Hey New Orleans!

[richard pallo]

I understand the frustration with Dorsetts progress but remember we pulled the trigger to quickly on another 1st. rounder, Jerry Hughes, and we can all see how that backfired.  An ER no less.  Our new receivers coach is the real deal according to his former pupil Sammy Watkins.  He swears by him.  We might want to count to ten slowly here. 

[indyagent17]

Reggie Wayne wasnt great from day one. Now I know Dorsett will never be Wayne but his speed could be useful not only in the passing game but special teams. He may turn out well, who knows

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

If Moncreif doesn't get his injury issues together he might be displaced by Akein as our #2 . I think he'll pass Dorsett in training camp/preseason tbh 

[shasta519]

38 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I understand the frustration with Dorsetts progress but remember we pulled the trigger to quickly on another 1st. rounder, Jerry Hughes, and we can all see how that backfired.  An ER no less.  Our new receivers coach is the real deal according to his former pupil Sammy Watkins.  He swears by him.  We might want to count to ten slowly here. 

 

True...but Hughes' situation was different. The season before he was traded he had shown flashes...despite having to again play behind Mathis and Freeney. And after that season, pass rusher was a huge need going forward (with Freeney leaving).

 

That was just a terrible move by a terrible GM. And it was made worse by the fact that pass rushing is still a need...and we are all aware now how rare and valuable pass rushers have become. 

 

If Ballard signed off on trading Dorsett...I would give him benefit of the doubt. Dorsett hasn't really flashed..despite having the opportunity to do so with Moncrief getting hurt. And with Luck at QB, it's not nearly as difficult to find a productive WR3 as it is to find a pass rusher...especially with Rogers and Aiken already on the roster.

 

I don't think he will trade Dorsett...but he did trade Allen one year into his big deal...so who knows.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 He and Parry need to be moved.
Throw in Vontae & Mewhort while i`m at it.  Hey New Orleans!

 

Trades at this time of year typically end up at pennies on the dollar.

 

And Vontae and Mewhort,  despite the fact that you don't like them,  are worth far, far more than you're willing to get back.....

 

I'm not a big fan of buying high and selling low.....

 

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 He and Parry need to be moved.
Throw in Vontae & Mewhort while i`m at it.  Hey New Orleans!

 

Why on earth would you want to move mewhort? I can at least see an argument to be made for vontae but I'd still disagree...but mewhort? ,what possible reason could you have?

[Superman]

I like the Aiken signing, but I'm not as confident that he'll be a major factor as everyone else seems to be.

[Restored]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

I like the Aiken signing, but I'm not as confident that he'll be a major factor as everyone else seems to be.

 

I would agree but given Dorsett's lack of production and Moncrief's injury history, Aiken stands a good chance to make a sizable impact this season.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Restored said:

 

I would agree but given Dorsett's lack of production and Moncrief's injury history, Aiken stands a good chance to make a sizable impact this season.

 

I'm of the opinion that Dorsett has been grossly misused and under utilized (a fundamental flaw in our passing attack), and I think Moncrief is significantly more talented than Aiken. So if we're not going to use Dorsett in a way that helps him produce as WR3, it's hard to see us using Aiken in that way. And if Moncrief is out, it's hard to see Aiken filling his shoes.

 

He's definitely an intriguing add, I just don't see him as being a major addition. He could definitely overtake Dorsett, and conceivably even Moncrief, if either of them isn't at the top of their game, in which case he'd play a bigger role than I anticipate. 

[Valpo2004]

Glad he was added, we havn't had many WR's who are very good in the redzone for a while now.  

[dodsworth]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm of the opinion that Dorsett has been grossly misused and under utilized (a fundamental flaw in our passing attack), and I think Moncrief is significantly more talented than Aiken. So if we're not going to use Dorsett in a way that helps him produce as WR3, it's hard to see us using Aiken in that way. And if Moncrief is out, it's hard to see Aiken filling his shoes.

 

He's definitely an intriguing add, I just don't see him as being a major addition. He could definitely overtake Dorsett, and conceivably even Moncrief, if either of them isn't at the top of their game, in which case he'd play a bigger role than I anticipate. 

My belief why Dorsett is misused is because 

Luck doesn't have confidence in anyone not

named TY or Doyle.

A QB will not look someone's way if the hands

aren't sound, which is why Doyle was resigned

and Aiken was brought in. 

 

Just trying to read Ballards mind on this.

[Restored]

10 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm of the opinion that Dorsett has been grossly misused and under utilized (a fundamental flaw in our passing attack), and I think Moncrief is significantly more talented than Aiken. So if we're not going to use Dorsett in a way that helps him produce as WR3, it's hard to see us using Aiken in that way. And if Moncrief is out, it's hard to see Aiken filling his shoes.

 

He's definitely an intriguing add, I just don't see him as being a major addition. He could definitely overtake Dorsett, and conceivably even Moncrief, if either of them isn't at the top of their game, in which case he'd play a bigger role than I anticipate. 

 

You could make the case for Dorsett being under utilized or misused but there were opportunities for him last season, especially when Moncrief was hurt. He had the chance to really step in and produce when that happened and we simply didn't see it. I agree that Moncrief is indeed more talented but injuries unfortunately have been his biggest determent in terms of his lack of production so I'm skeptical on what he will be able to contribute this season.

 

There's just too many questions marks for both Moncrief and Dorsett right now for me to say that Aiken won't be contributing in a significant role this season.

[DarkHorse]

Keep Dorsett for depth.  

[OffensivelyPC]

23 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

I'm probably in the minority, but to me, Aiken is the most exciting signing after Hankins. 

I'm a fan of the John Simon signing more than Aiken, but those are my favorite 3 signings.  I wouldn't say I'm "excited" about the Margus Hunt signing, but I am intrigued by it.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, Restored said:

 

You could make the case for Dorsett being under utilized or misused but there were opportunities for him last season, especially when Moncrief was hurt. He had the chance to really step in and produce when that happened and we simply didn't see it. I agree that Moncrief is indeed more talented but injuries unfortunately have been his biggest determent in terms of his lack of production so I'm skeptical on what he will be able to contribute this season.

 

There's just too many questions marks for both Moncrief and Dorsett right now for me to say that Aiken won't be contributing in a significant role this season.

 

I'm not arguing that Dorsett has done everything right and is just a victim of circumstance. I am arguing that our passing game is flawed, and I don't see anyone outside of the main guys being significant contributors unless the gameplans change significantly. 

 

I will say that there were various times when Dorsett was open and didn't get thrown to, as well as times when he was used poorly. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

56 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not arguing that Dorsett has done everything right and is just a victim of circumstance. I am arguing that our passing game is flawed, and I don't see anyone outside of the main guys being significant contributors unless the gameplans change significantly. 

 

I will say that there were various times when Dorsett was open and didn't get thrown to, as well as times when he was used poorly. 

The worrying thing is that most of us can agree that our plays we use in the passing game aren't very good. Like you said it causes players to not be utilized correctly. I don't really see that changing much this season. I really hope Chud has studied a lot of film and changes his game up for Luck. We could and should be doing special things... imo 

[Restored]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not arguing that Dorsett has done everything right and is just a victim of circumstance. I am arguing that our passing game is flawed, and I don't see anyone outside of the main guys being significant contributors unless the gameplans change significantly. 

 

I will say that there were various times when Dorsett was open and didn't get thrown to, as well as times when he was used poorly. 

 

If by main guys you mean just Hilton, then there really isn't anyone else that's been a significant contributor in the passing game (unless you count Doyle's contributions but he isn't a WR). I want Dorsett to succeed and hope for the team's sake that he does but there's two sides to his coin and I've seen too many times where he's failed to get open or has dropped passes. Does the offensive system deserve some blame? Sure. But I don't believe it's as big as contributing factor to his lack of success as you are making it out to be. And again, when Moncrief went down last season, he had an opportunity to make a contribution and it didn't happen. I'm hoping he does this season.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not arguing that Dorsett has done everything right and is just a victim of circumstance. I am arguing that our passing game is flawed, and I don't see anyone outside of the main guys being significant contributors unless the gameplans change significantly. 

 

I will say that there were various times when Dorsett was open and didn't get thrown to, as well as times when he was used poorly. 

 

That's just Chud's system. It features a primary WR1 and TE/s. Everybody talks about this deep WR group and spreading the ball around...but that's not how Chud has ever done it.

 

Here is the breakdown of his six seasons as an OC/HC:

 

2007 Braylon Edwards – 1,289 yds (next WR was 614 yds)
2008 Braylon Edwards – 873 yds (next WR was 194 yds)
2011 Steve Smith – 1,394 yds (next WR was 613 yds)
2012 Steve Smith – 1,174 yds (next WR was 677 yds)
2013 Josh Gordon – 1,646 yds (next WR was 465 yds)

2016 T.Y. Hilton - 1,448 yds (next WR was 528 yds)

 

2007 Kellen Winslow – 1,106 yds
2008 Kellen Winslow – 428 yds (Heiden had 248 yds)
2011 Greg Olsen – 540 yds
2012 Greg Olsen – 873 yds
2013 Jordan Cameron – 917 yds

2016 Jack Doyle - 584 yds (Allen had 406 yds)

 

In Chud's system, there is a clear WR1, who is the focal point of the offense and garners about twice as many targets as any other WR. Then the secondary option in the passing game is a TE.

 

The remaining 55-60% of the targets are divided up among ~8 offensive players. There just isn't a ton of opportunity in this passing offense outside of Hilton and the TEs. Which is why I am not rushing to re-sign Moncrief at the going rate for a WR2...and why I don't think Aiken is anything more than a solid depth WR.

[Superman]

13 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

If by main guys you mean just Hilton, then there really isn't anyone else that's been a significant contributor in the passing game (unless you count Doyle's contributions but he isn't a WR). I want Dorsett to succeed and hope for the team's sake that he does but there's two sides to his coin and I've seen too many times where he's failed to get open or has dropped passes. Does the offensive system deserve some blame? Sure. But I don't believe it's as big as contributing factor to his lack of success as you are making it out to be. And again, when Moncrief went down last season, he had an opportunity to make a contribution and it didn't happen. I'm hoping he does this season.

 

I disagree. He has like 4 drops in two years. Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

I've broken out some plays where he was wide open and didn't get the ball. I've shown others where our offense runs the receivers right into the strength of the defense. Run your quick, fast receivers on slants against off coverage. Don't run 15 yard stop routes. Our offense can't execute a bubble screen.

 

Set aside Dorsett. Our passing offense is flawed, schematically, and it will never reach its full potential because of those flaws. I don't care what receivers you put on the field with Luck, when you don't run smart passing concepts, your secondary and tertiary options aren't going to have noteworthy production. This is on the coaching, entirely. It's why Luck gets pressured so much, it's why his efficiency numbers aren't as high as other QBs, and it's why no one but Hilton gets relied on in this offense.

 

Dorsett has made his mistakes, but his lack of production is mostly due to the offense, not due to his shortcomings. 

 

Aiken has an advantage over Dorsett in the end zone (theoretically), but Moncrief is better than Aiken in the red zone (and everywhere else), so I don't see that difference producing a significant return for the team. 

[Restored]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I disagree. He has like 4 drops in two years. Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

I've broken out some plays where he was wide open and didn't get the ball. I've shown others where our offense runs the receivers right into the strength of the defense. Run your quick, fast receivers on slants against off coverage. Don't run 15 yard stop routes. Our offense can't execute a bubble screen.

 

Set aside Dorsett. Our passing offense is flawed, schematically, and it will never reach its full potential because of those flaws. I don't care what receivers you put on the field with Luck, when you don't run smart passing concepts, your secondary and tertiary options aren't going to have noteworthy production. This is on the coaching, entirely. It's why Luck gets pressured so much, it's why his efficiency numbers aren't as high as other QBs, and it's why no one but Hilton gets relied on in this offense.

 

Dorsett has made his mistakes, but his lack of production is mostly due to the offense, not due to his shortcomings. 

 

Aiken has an advantage over Dorsett in the end zone (theoretically), but Moncrief is better than Aiken in the red zone (and everywhere else), so I don't see that difference producing a significant return for the team. 

 

He had a team high 5.8% drop rate midway into December last year. Dorsett hasn't shown enough flashes when given the opportunity to warrant having his almost complete lack of productivity be based on the shortcomings of the offensive system. I've seen a number of plays where he isn't getting open either. I'm not saying he can't put it together at some point but right now, the production isn't there.

 

Also, Hilton being solely relied upon at times is also predicated on Luck's still-existing flaw of not going through his other reads on plays at times.

 

Does the offensive system need change? Yes. But it's also tough to find production at the WR position when your #2 has battled injuries and the #3 can't make the most of his opportunities.

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

He had a team high 5.8% drop rate midway into December last year. Dorsett hasn't shown enough flashes when given the opportunity to warrant having his almost complete lack of productivity be based on the shortcomings of the offensive system. I've seen a number of plays where he isn't getting open either. I'm not saying he can't put it together at some point but right now, the production isn't there.

 

Also, Hilton being solely relied upon at times is also predicated on Luck's still-existing flaw of not going through his other reads on plays at times.

 

Does the offensive system need change? Yes. But it's also tough to find production at the WR position when your #2 has battled injuries and the #3 can't make the most of his opportunities.

 

Drop % isn't relevant to the discussion, given his lack of targets. He had 3 drops last year. That's not a lot. (I thought he had a drop in 2015, but I was wrong.)

 

Every receiver has plays where he doesn't get open.

 

He doesn't have a complete lack of productivity. He had over 500 yards last year.

 

Luck wouldn't have to go through reads if the offense featured hot routes or other designed concepts that promote high efficiency. Against certain defensive looks, there should be an automatic hot that put the ball in a receiver's hands in space. We have virtually none of those in this offense. Against other looks, there should be automatic checks to screens or smokes. Again, they run almost none. Yes, Luck locks on to his #1 more than he should, but that flaw is exacerbated by the lack of common sense concepts in the offense.

 

When I see stuff like this in multiple games, the issue is bigger than personnel.

 

Unless you're telling me that Luck would have thrown to Kamar Aiken in the same circumstance, then I don't think Aiken is going to be any better than Dorsett in this offense. And if you are telling me that Aiken would have gotten the ball here, then we might as well get rid of Dorsett right now, because if Luck doesn't trust him then he shouldn't be on the field. But I don't think that's it. I think it's a poorly designed offense, bottom line.

[VaAllDay757]

^^^^That right there is the qb fault but also a reminder the offense line gets him hit so much he'll get nervous eventually. It's like he throws to the hot route everytime the protection breaks down which isn't good. To me from what I seen dorsett isn't being used right he should stay in the slot whenever he hits the field.

[jameszeigler834]

23 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Trades at this time of year typically end up at pennies on the dollar.

 

And Vontae and Mewhort,  despite the fact that you don't like them,  are worth far, far more than you're willing to get back.....

 

I'm not a big fan of buying high and selling low.....

 

Mewhort is our best lineman and vontae I believe is still the best corner on this team.

[Superman]

58 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

^^^^That right there is the qb fault but also a reminder the offense line gets him hit so much he'll get nervous eventually. It's like he throws to the hot route everytime the protection breaks down which isn't good. To me from what I seen dorsett isn't being used right he should stay in the slot whenever he hits the field.

 

Dorsett was open immediately. If you don't want to get hit, get rid of the ball. The OL definitely has it's issues, but by design, Luck takes more time from snap to throw than almost any other QB. So we have a line that struggles to protect, coupled with an offense that has long, slowly developing passing concepts, and we wonder why the QB gets hit so much...

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Mewhort is our best lineman and vontae I believe is still the best corner on this team.

 

I don't know if Mewhort is the best,  but he's clearly very good.     And Vonte being the best is not very hard to say.... 

 

But BBZ sees the world a little differently.........

 

 

[VaAllDay757]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Dorsett was open immediately. If you don't want to get hit, get rid of the ball. The OL definitely has it's issues, but by design, Luck takes more time from snap to throw than almost any other QB. So we have a line that struggles to protect, coupled with an offense that has long, slowly developing passing concepts, and we wonder why the QB gets hit so much...

That's why they should use quick routes like slants more often so luck doesn't have to hold on to the ball long. Some of those routes take too much time to develop.

[MB-ColtsFan]

Sooo, TY, Crief, and Aiken would seem to be a nice thing to see in the Red Zone, I would think?  Many options with (Pick a TE), and Frank as the lone back.

 

Rogers had a few miscues in the RD last year, from what I remember, so unless he improves, he would be my last choice at TE.