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jaime ...I dont think the refs decided the game, do you.

NE led 17-9...in the 3rd Q........

You dont HAVE TO call that but it was a correct call..

No brady hurting his left shoulder and Branch and Welker drops lost the game, But if they dont call that safety who knows if the Giants even SCORE in the 1st half.. That ONE MARGINAL call changed the hole game. IMO in the final game of ANY CHAMPIONSHIP the refs let them play and only call the most outrages of penalties... This was one the SHOULD have let go period.

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My counterpoint would be what Brady was thinking after that - "I shouldn't have done that in the SB! Ever!

I thought Brady played well. Great game by both sides. Great catch by Mario.

My counterpoint to you is this..

1st play of the game for Brady, Ball sails way over Branch head... it couldnt just be overly pumped up that he over through Branch? I mean it wasnt like midway through the 2nd or 3rd but the freakin FIRST PLAY... MOST REFS WOULD TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT AS WELL.. AND any TIME YOU NEED A CONFERENCE TO DECIDE LEAVE THE DANG FLAG IN YOUR POCKET.

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No brady hurting his left shoulder and Branch and Welker drops lost the game, But if they dont call that safety who knows if the Giants even SCORE in the 1st half.. That ONE MARGINAL call changed the hole game. IMO in the final game of ANY CHAMPIONSHIP the refs let them play and only call the most outrages of penalties... This was one the SHOULD have let go period.

It was a 9-point swing,,..but its refs judgement....and there was nobody there.

If he threw the ball into the box seats..would they have called it.....??? maybe not..

But he threw the ball where no one was ON THE FIELD..he highlighted it..

Its the same as throwing short...to no one...

'Let 'em' play' is something that you'd say at an amatuer contest...

This was a professional championship...and the ref went by the letter of the law..

He cant just 'let 'em play'..not in a professional world championship game.

....He has to make even rare calls.

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My counterpoint would be what Brady was thinking after that - "I shouldn't have done that in the SB! Ever!

I thought Brady played well. Great game by both sides. Great catch by Mario.

My counterpoint to you is this..

1st play of the game for Brady, Ball sails way over Branch head... it couldnt just be overly pumped up that he over through Branch? I mean it wasnt like midway through the 2nd or 3rd but the freakin FIRST PLAY... MOST REFS WOULD TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT AS WELL.. AND any TIME YOU NEED A CONFERENCE TO DECIDE LEAVE THE DANG FLAG IN YOUR POCKET.

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My counterpoint to you is this..

1st play of the game for Brady, Ball sails way over Branch head... it couldnt just be overly pumped up that he over through Branch? I mean it wasnt like midway through the 2nd or 3rd but the freakin FIRST PLAY... MOST REFS WOULD TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT AS WELL.. AND any TIME YOU NEED A CONFERENCE TO DECIDE LEAVE THE DANG FLAG IN YOUR POCKET.

Do you know why it took a 'conference' to decide? Research the reason. Even Tom said it was the right call given the circumstances after he 'overthrew' everyone and their mom while being pressured in the endzone. Blame the O-Line.

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These arguments are ridiculous. It was the right call. It doesn't matter if it was the first play of the season or the first play in the SB. The situation is irrelivant. It was the right call. We just have a Pats fan that is upset with the outcome of the game, and they're looking to blame anyone other than the team for the loss.

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Do you know why it took a 'conference' to decide? Research the reason. Even Tom said it was the right call given the circumstances after he 'overthrew' everyone and their mom while being pressured in the endzone. Blame the O-Line.

It was a 9-point swing,,..but its refs judgement....and there was nobody there.

If he threw the ball into the box seats..would they have called it.....??? maybe not..

But he threw the ball where no one was ON THE FIELD..he highlighted it..

Its the same as throwing short...to no one...

'Let 'em' play' is something that you'd say at an amatuer contest...

This was a professional championship...and the ref went by the letter of the law..

He cant just 'let 'em play'..not in a professional world championship game.

....He has to make even rare calls.

So I guess every Playoff game leading up to the SB was amateur time then? I guess the NHL finals were also ameteur time as well... Your argument doesnt hold water, It was BLATENTLY obvious the refs had put the whistles away this playoffs they went from an AVERAGE of 13 penalties a game to 5.

And this call had NEVER EVER been called in the SB thats not rare thats none existant. And Brady isnt goign complain because the NFL fine him for calling the refs out.

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These arguments are ridiculous. It was the right call. It doesn't matter if it was the first play of the season or the first play in the SB. The situation is irrelivant. It was the right call. We just have a Pats fan that is upset with the outcome of the game, and they're looking to blame anyone other than the team for the loss.

Was it the right call?? I dont think so. It was marginal at best, OBVIOUSLY since he didnt throw the flag right away and had conference about it. And anyone who believes a play is called the same in the Super Bowl as in the reg season is just KIDDING themselves period.

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Do you know why it took a 'conference' to decide? Research the reason. Even Tom said it was the right call given the circumstances after he 'overthrew' everyone and their mom while being pressured in the endzone. Blame the O-Line.

I dont care what reason the refs gave for the conference, the fact they needed it BEFORE throwing the flag shows they were not sure.. anything marginal should be let go.. and NO PENALTY should ever be called like that EVER.

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Was it the right call?? I dont think so. It was marginal at best, OBVIOUSLY since he didnt throw the flag right away and had conference about it. And anyone who believes a play is called the same in the Super Bowl as in the reg season is just KIDDING themselves period.

Again Brady said in his post game presser (heard on the radio so no I don't have a link for you) he was dumping the ball. He admitted he was grounding it. Case closed. Sorry Pats fans but Colts fans aren't going to buy this or feel bad for you on this one.

1. Aren't you the fanbase that has told us for years you can't complain about the officals they are a part of the game and bad calls go both way? Or is that only Colts fans can't complain about the officals? I notice no one is saying anything about the clear miss on the PI by Chung in the game. So it evened it's self out.

2. After all the calls the Pats have gotten in their playoff lives no one is going to feel bad for them if one goes against them.

3. It wasn't a bad call it was the right call.

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I don't care if it had never happened in a Super Bowl before, it was the right call and they made it. And it happened early enough in the game as to where it should never, ever have decided the outcome...shouldn't even be considered as deciding the outcome of the game.

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Again Brady said in his post game presser (heard on the radio so no I don't have a link for you) he was dumping the ball. He admitted he was grounding it. Case closed. Sorry Pats fans but Colts fans aren't going to buy this or feel bad for you on this one.

1. Aren't you the fanbase that has told us for years you can't complain about the officals they are a part of the game and bad calls go both way? Or is that only Colts fans can't complain about the officals? I notice no one is saying anything about the clear miss on the PI by Chung in the game. So it evened it's self out.

2. After all the calls the Pats have gotten in their playoff lives no one is going to feel bad for them if one goes against them.

3. It wasn't a bad call it was the right call.

1. The PI did that give the Pats 2 points and the ball back? Nope so didnt "even" it out lol

2. Maybe but I dont care :P

3. No it was a marginal call, and never ever should have been called.

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Isn't it amazing in 45 SB not ONE QB got called for intentinal grounding resulting in a safety, hmm could it be because those refs understood to not let THEIR calls decide the outcome of the game, and those 2 Points DID make a huge difference. Instead of driving for a Tying FG they needed a TD...(I am assuming Giants would have went for the reg point after). So the refs ALLOWED themselves be a difference maker in the game.

So because other officals haven't called it it just shouldn't be called? That's a horriable arguement. If someone commits a foul you call it that's what refs are there for.

Sorry Brady broke the rules there was a flag. Brady has said it was the right call. The Pats didn't argue about it after it happened they just accepted it. Heck I'd even Brady made the smart given the circamstances. Throwing the ball up gives you a chance to at least have the ref a chance to not throw the flag vs. taking the sack where he could fumble it as JJ pointed out or at best is going to take the sack and at worst give up the safety that way.

That play is exactly what grounding was put in there to prevent. It served it's purpose. It was the right call and it was only two points, Pats lost by four. Time to move on.

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I don't care if it had never happened in a Super Bowl before, it was the right call and they made it. And it happened early enough in the game as to where it should never, ever have decided the outcome...shouldn't even be considered as deciding the outcome of the game.

It was MARGINAL at best. It was also a 9 POINT SWING... Did it decide the game> Nope drops and a 50% Gronk did that.. but was sure nice of the refs spot them 2 points early on.

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1. The PI did that give the Pats 2 points and the ball back? Nope so didnt "even" it out lol

2. Maybe but I dont care :P

3. No it was a marginal call, and never ever should have been called.

It would have kept a Giants drive alive and put them in field goal range so you can say it took points off the board for the Giants.

Glad to know you atleast admit there is one set of rules for you and another for other teams fans...it doesn't work that way but fine whatever you want it just makes people view you as extremely bias.

Review your own QB said it was the right call, your coach didn't argue it when it happened. Doesn't look to marginal to me. You didn't have a WR within 15 yards of the pass and the pass was to the middle of the field and your WRs were on the outside. There was no case to make that Brady just missed a WR. He was dumping the pass as he has said. It was grounding. It was the right call. Time to move on.

Of the things Pats fans should be upset about today I would be more upset at Brady for just throwing a ball up for grabs and having it get picked, your defense not being able to stop Manning on that last drive, BB letting the Giants score (which I thought was the right call but I can see why people would be upset about that), and Welker not making that catch. Those things decided the game not this call.

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So because other officals haven't called it it just shouldn't be called? That's a horriable arguement. If someone commits a foul you call it that's what refs are there for.

Sorry Brady broke the rules there was a flag. Brady has said it was the right call. The Pats didn't argue about it after it happened they just accepted it. Heck I'd even Brady made the smart given the circamstances. Throwing the ball up gives you a chance to at least have the ref a chance to not throw the flag vs. taking the sack where he could fumble it as JJ pointed out or at best is going to take the sack and at worst give up the safety that way.

That play is exactly what grounding was put in there to prevent. It served it's purpose. It was the right call and it was only two points, Pats lost by four. Time to move on.

and

IF the ref had thrown the flag THEN they conferenced then I say ok he saw it that way.. but to conference THEN throw the flag just awful.... And that made it a 9 point swing.. but even the 2 was huge. The Giants would have been trying score quicker because they needed the TD, and then Brady only needed a FG to tie.

Guys you are not going to convince me it was the right call, it was ticky tack to me at best. Did it cost the Pats the game, nope, did it give the Giants a HUGE step up YES it did.

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It was a good call by the ref. There are no "marginal" calls for pass interference. He was inside the pocket and threw it away to avoid a sack. There were no receivers close to the pass.

It was pass interference according to the rulebook. It was in the endzone. That is a safety.

What everyone seems to be overlooking is how it was set up by a nice punt. The Giants punter played extremely well for the game (three punts inside the ten?).

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It would have kept a Giants drive alive and put them in field goal range so you can say it took points off the board for the Giants.

Glad to know you atleast admit there is one set of rules for you and another for other teams fans...it doesn't work that way but fine whatever you want it just makes people view you as extremely bias.

Review your own QB said it was the right call, your coach didn't argue it when it happened. Doesn't look to marginal to me. You didn't have a WR within 15 yards of the pass and the pass was to the middle of the field and your WRs were on the outside. There was no case to make that Brady just missed a WR. He was dumping the pass as he has said. It was grounding. It was the right call. Time to move on.

Of the things Pats fans should be upset about today I would be more upset at Brady for just throwing a ball up for grabs and having it get picked, your defense not being able to stop Manning on that last drive, BB letting the Giants score (which I thought was the right call but I can see why people would be upset about that), and Welker not making that catch. Those things decided the game not this call.

Actually I saw Bradys live post game and he said they were coming in at him for the sack so he had no choice but to throw it. Maybe the refs catch it or maybe they don't but the sack will be obvious.

I always think of grounding as throwing it 8 yards in the dirt..I guess that just because most are that. But throwing in deep in the center was grounding and the right call.

The refs were instructed to let them play in the playoffs (good thing) but you have to draw the line...you can't let blatant things go unpenalized.

I thought that was the omen they would lose the game,not because of the ref but just because...not a great start:) The safety does hurt. 2 points eventually becomes one point and that changes the whole FG strategy. I was right..as always;-) Also besides the 2 pts you're kicking it away short..which led to another Giants score.

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Was it the right call?? I dont think so. It was marginal at best, OBVIOUSLY since he didnt throw the flag right away and had conference about it. And anyone who believes a play is called the same in the Super Bowl as in the reg season is just KIDDING themselves period.

You're kidding yourself. It's just sour grapes on your part

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Yep that drop by Welker is going to haunt him forever. Collinsworth was right that is a catch he makes 100 out of 100 times.

But it was still a poor pass. Did you see how hard Welker's head hit the ground? A good pass doesn't put your receiver in harms way. Yes, Weljer usually bails Brady out on those throws, but that is a hard catch to make and hold on to. The media needs to cut him some slack. The drops by Branch and Hernandez on the last drive are the ones that really should be scrutinized.

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You're kidding yourself. It's just sour grapes on your part

Believe whatever ya want keyser. Like I said no one will ever convince me that wasnt a terible call. Mind you the Pats killed themselves with drops and def didnt help that Brady's accuracy went to heck after he hurt his left shoulder.

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But it was still a poor pass. Did you see how hard Welker's head hit the ground? A good pass doesn't put your receiver in harms way. Yes, Weljer usually bails Brady out on those throws, but that is a hard catch to make and hold on to. The media needs to cut him some slack. The drops by Branch and Hernandez on the last drive are the ones that really should be scrutinized.

I agree, but it will haunt Welker, because I think he and everyone on that O knew Brady was playing with a rather sore shoulder (thus his accuracy be off some.) Besides Welker is a competitor he KNOWS he holds onto that ball there is a 90% chance the Pats win the game. Like Brady said in the Big game always comes down to a few plays....

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and

IF the ref had thrown the flag THEN they conferenced then I say ok he saw it that way.. but to conference THEN throw the flag just awful.... And that made it a 9 point swing.. but even the 2 was huge. The Giants would have been trying score quicker because they needed the TD, and then Brady only needed a FG to tie.

Guys you are not going to convince me it was the right call, it was ticky tack to me at best. Did it cost the Pats the game, nope, did it give the Giants a HUGE step up YES it did.

Whether they conferences first or not doesn't change the fact that it was intentional grounding. It was obvious as soon as it threw the ball that he was throwing to nobody, he was under pressure, and that he was in the tackle box. The official who saw it just didn't throw the flag, instead he chose to run up to John Parry and tell him about it.

Get over it. It was a penalty.

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Whether they conferences first or not doesn't change the fact that it was intentional grounding. It was obvious as soon as it threw the ball that he was throwing to nobody, he was under pressure, and that he was in the tackle box. The official who saw it just didn't throw the flag, instead he chose to run up to John Parry and tell him about it.

Get over it. It was a penalty.

Why? I still believe it was the wrong call in that circumstance PERIOD.. I dont have get over it. Especially since I disagree about it being a penalty. (again as I said before you guys will not change my mind )

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Why? I still believe it was the wrong call in that circumstance PERIOD.. I dont have get over it. Especially since I disagree about it being a penalty. (again as I said before you guys will not change my mind )

Explain how that wasn't a penalty. If you go by the rules, it was intentional grounding. The three factors that justified the call that I mentioned before were there. Please tell us why it shouldn't be called. Because its the Superbowl? Because it's Brady?

I don't understand your point of view on this matter.

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and

IF the ref had thrown the flag THEN they conferenced then I say ok he saw it that way.. but to conference THEN throw the flag just awful.... And that made it a 9 point swing.. but even the 2 was huge. The Giants would have been trying score quicker because they needed the TD, and then Brady only needed a FG to tie.

Guys you are not going to convince me it was the right call, it was ticky tack to me at best. Did it cost the Pats the game, nope, did it give the Giants a HUGE step up YES it did.

That's what they do. The exact samething happened to Eli Manning in the Falcons game earlie this post season...

I've lots of intentional grounding calls come when the refs get together and talk about it because they try to give the QB the benefit of the doubt. There wasn't any last night. There were no WRs remotely close to the ball. Madona was closer to that ball than any Pats players. That by rule when under pressure is grounding. It was the right call. Read Peter King's Monday Morning QB he did a nice write up on it.

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Brady played a great game and I really only saw 1 mistake and that was the underthrown pass that got intercepted.

Yeah that intentional grounding for a safety for the Pats to OPEN THE GAME with was outstanding as well.

No O-line = No Brady. Actually, the Giants rarely even got near him....not like the last Superbowl. They were in his head all night long, though.

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That was a very questionable call. How can anyone say that one of the receivers didn't run the wrong route or broke off their route early instead of going deep.

There was absolutely. Nobody. Even. Close. Maybe he should have looked downfield instead of panicking?

At least when Peyton threw a pick six it was near Reggie to all but end the game. (The Colts would have lost anyway with that awful D/special teams even if we got the tying TD.)

Brady panicked and threw it to the invisible man for a safety to open the game, then choked it away in the waning seconds by doing nothing when they needed him most. Just like last time when he missed a wide open Moss with ALL DAY to throw like has 95% of the time. Moss is only, what, 6'4?

When the Colts lose Manning chokes. Even though 75% of the team is putrid. When the Patriots lose it's not Brady's fault....even though he has the best O-line in football by a mile and a fantastic offense, defense that usually gets turnovers while not letting up many points, good special teams, and the best coach in the game. Well, maybe not..he hasn't won crap since he got BUSTED. :)

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Actually I saw Bradys live post game and he said they were coming in at him for the sack so he had no choice but to throw it. Maybe the refs catch it or maybe they don't but the sack will be obvious.

I always think of grounding as throwing it 8 yards in the dirt..I guess that just because most are that. But throwing in deep in the center was grounding and the right call.

The refs were instructed to let them play in the playoffs (good thing) but you have to draw the line...you can't let blatant things go unpenalized.

I thought that was the omen they would lose the game,not because of the ref but just because...not a great start:) The safety does hurt. 2 points eventually becomes one point and that changes the whole FG strategy. I was right..as always;-) Also besides the 2 pts you're kicking it away short..which led to another Giants score.

Oh I agree 100% that it was the right thing Brady to do in that spot. It was the smart thing, if he just holds it he's for sure going to give up at least two points if not more if he fumbles it and a Giants player falls on it. At least by putting it in the air he had the chance the refs weren't going to throw the flag.

There isn't much of an arguement that this wasn't the right call. I mean it's not like Brady threw it and there was a WR about five yards away from it who had just gone the wrong way. Then I think Pats fans would have a case that it was a bad call. The WRs were about 15 yards behind the play on the sidelines and this ball was dumped way deep into the middle part of the field where no one would get it (including the Giants). It was pretty much the text book of grounding. Like I said Eli got nailed for the exact samething in the Falcons game in the post season too. It was the right call then and it was the right call last night.

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But it was still a poor pass. Did you see how hard Welker's head hit the ground? A good pass doesn't put your receiver in harms way. Yes, Weljer usually bails Brady out on those throws, but that is a hard catch to make and hold on to. The media needs to cut him some slack. The drops by Branch and Hernandez on the last drive are the ones that really should be scrutinized.

It wasn't the best pass in the world but Wes Welker got two hands on it and if you get two hands on it in the Super Bowl and you are a WR the talent level of Wes Welker you have to make that catch.

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Why? I still believe it was the wrong call in that circumstance PERIOD.. I dont have get over it. Especially since I disagree about it being a penalty. (again as I said before you guys will not change my mind )

Sounds like you are grasping straws and trying your best to make sure Brady doesn't get blamed for a single thing. It was a bad play on his part period.

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It wasn't the best pass in the world but Wes Welker got two hands on it and if you get two hands on it in the Super Bowl and you are a WR the talent level of Wes Welker you have to make that catch.

No doubt about that. You're right. All I'm saying is there are times when the receivers are to blame, times when the QBs are to blame, and times when both parties are equally to blame. To me, the Welker drop was equal parts Brady and Welker. Weljer should have gotten control of that ball, but the throw was so bad, I don't think he holds on to it when he lands because of how hard his head hits the ground. There's no way to prove that though because he didn't come down with it. At the same time, Brady has no business throwing that poorly to a WIDE OPEN receiver with time to step into the throw.

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this same call was made against Eli and the giants in this years playoffs against the Falcons, its not like the refs are being inconsistent and just calling this out of nowhere....but then again this one was against the pats so it has to be a bad call......

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I think it was 'close' to a ticky tack call, and in the end it was called correctly. When Brady dropped back, he was already by definition within a foot or 2 of being out of the pocket. (Outside the right hash marks) If he just drifts one or two feet two his right, then he is out of the pocket and can sail the ball anywhere he wishes. I think the huddle was to determine if anyone with a striped shirt saw him move that foot or so to his right. He didn't, and they didn't. They had to call it. But Tom could have easily avoided it by making a subtle shift in the pocket he has made hundreds of times before.

I hated to see 3/4 of the first quarter and two points given to one team because of that call, yet I could not deny it and knew it was so close to having been moot. Luckily, Pats came all the way back to take the lead making it totally moot anyway. Other things were to blame for this Patriot loss, Safety be darned.

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Watching the highlights....and here come the excuses for why it wasn't Brady's fault....it was all the drops by his WRs, Gronk being hobbled....blah blah. Sure some of that is completely legit, Brady wasn't totally to blame....but the BSPN boys are trying SO HARD to pin this loss on anyone but Tom Terrific. It just gets...so

..old!

Just two words for these Brady lovers: Tuck rule. If it were not for that insane rule, which I think has never been used except to allow the Patriots to go to their first Super Bowl, Brady would have only as many rings, and one less MVP than Eli.

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Why? I still believe it was the wrong call in that circumstance PERIOD..

The Tuck Rule. REALLY? Of all times when the Raiders WON THE GAME?

THAT is a prime example of some stupid obscure rule that has no business in football being called at the worst possible circumstance - at the end of the game. It cost the Raiders a shot at the SB. It turned the Patriots FAILURE/Brady having the game knocked right out of his very own hands in to what would become an ongoing juggernaut.

-Chucking the ball to the 50 yard line from your end zone to avoid the sack.

-The only guy within 20 yards is a defender.

Pretty blatant and a called on a near weekly basis in the NFL. (Not from the endzone, but intentional grounding in general) Maybe Brady just needs even more ridiculous pass protection so he doesn't do it again. He only had, what FIVE FULL SECONDS to do something on that one?

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