Drafting a RB to help our Defense?

[Legend of Luck]

I was watching ESPN today, and they were discussing the 1st round of the 2016 draft. Jerome Bettis was asked what he thought the best pick in the 1st round was. He (somewhat predictably) picked Elliot to the Cowboys at 4. 

 

He went on to explain that people were unhappy with the pick at the time, because they had so many other needs, especially on Defense. But he said, what people failed to realize was that Zeke himself ended up helping the defense just as much as the offense. He kept drives alive, kept the defense off the field, and helped the offense score more, which in turn, allowed the defense to turn up the pressure and force the opposing team to throw more to catch up.

 

I think we all understand how a RB can affect the game that way. My question to you is, understanding that Dallas' Defense was not greatly enhanced last year, but we can see how Zeze and Dak together completely changed the fortunes of that team (one of the best teams in the league with a 13-3 record), should we be more open to drafting a top RB (Cook, McCaffery, Fournette) in the first? 

[Shadow_Creek]

19 minutes ago, Legend of Luck said:

I was watching ESPN today, and they were discussing the 1st round of the 2016 draft. Jerome Bettis was asked what he thought the best pick in the 1st round was. He (somewhat predictably) picked Elliot to the Cowboys at 4. 

 

He went on to explain that people were unhappy with the pick at the time, because they had so many other needs, especially on Defense. But he said, what people failed to realize was that Zeke himself ended up helping the defense just as much as the offense. He kept drives alive, kept the defense off the field, and helped the offense score more, which in turn, allowed the defense to turn up the pressure and force the opposing team to throw more to catch up.

 

I think we all understand how a RB can affect the game that way. My question to you is, understanding that Dallas' Defense was not greatly enhanced last year, but we can see how Zeze and Dak together completely changed the fortunes of that team (one of the best teams in the league with a 13-3 record), should we be more open to drafting a top RB (Cook, McCaffery, Fournette) in the first? 

I wanna say yes. But unfortunately we don't have a dallas oline type

[Legend of Luck]

Just now, Shadow_Creek said:

I wanna say yes. But unfortunately we don't have a dallas oline type

Thats an excellent point.

 

However, I think the strength of our line is clearly run blocking, which helps at least.

[crazycolt1]

57 minutes ago, Legend of Luck said:

Thats an excellent point.

 

However, I think the strength of our line is clearly run blocking, which helps at least.

While the O-line did improve the last few games of last season IMO run blocking was one of the glaring weaknesses. Gore only averaged 64.1 yards per game with 4 TDs. Luck was second on the team with an average of 22.7 yards per game with 2 TDs. Luck also had the longest run of the season with a 33 yard run while Gore's was 22 yards.

We only ran for 13 TDs on the season.

We were rated 23rd in the league according to ESPN stats.

IMHO I wouldn't call those numbers a strength.

[SaturdayAllDay]

The issue is that we are a team that doesnt run the ball much, regardless of whether we are up 20 or down 20 and regardless of who we have at RB. We didnt run more when we thought we had a stud RB in Richardson (not even the first few weeks before we realized we got swindled). 

Our coaches have a tendency to not cater their playbooks/gameplans to our teams strengths, and we seem to be stuck with the offense that we have. Simply drafting a RB wont make us a team that runs the ball 30 times a game like the Cowboys do. If we havent changed to help Luck (our franchise QB and the highest paid player in the NFL) we wont change for the 2nd/3rd/4th best RB in this draft class. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

While the O-line did improve the last few games of last season IMO run blocking was one of the glaring weaknesses. Gore only averaged 64.1 yards per game with 4 TDs. Luck was second on the team with an average of 22.7 yards per game with 2 TDs. Luck also had the longest run of the season with a 33 yard run while Gore's was 22 yards.

We only ran for 13 TDs on the season.

We were rated 23rd in the league according to ESPN stats.

IMHO I wouldn't call those numbers a strength.

Dont you know!?! Those numbers are simply because Gore is in his 30s!!!

 

A 1st round RB will magically fix that! 

[crazycolt1]

11 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

The issue is that we are a team that doesnt run the ball much, regardless of whether we are up 20 or down 20 and regardless of who we have at RB. We didnt run more when we thought we had a stud RB in Richardson (not even the first few weeks before we realized we got swindled). 

Our coaches have a tendency to not cater their playbooks/gameplans to our teams strengths, and we seem to be stuck with the offense that we have. Simply drafting a RB wont make us a team that runs the ball 30 times a game like the Cowboys do. If we havent changed to help Luck (our franchise QB and the highest paid player in the NFL) we wont change for the 2nd/3rd/4th best RB in this draft class. 

IMO the issue is we don't run the ball because we didn't have the personnel on the O-line to block for an average running game. We couldn't even pass block.

That is one of the main reasons Grigson was fired.

[backshoulderfade]

Yeh, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I don't think there will be a RB who represents value at 15. I want Fournette bad.

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, backshoulderfade said:

Yeh, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I don't think there will be a RB who represents value at 15. I want Fournette bad.

While I understand what you are saying will this O-line improve enough to block for a top notch RB and make them at least average?

With that in mind will it also pass block to keep Luck from being one of the most sacked and hit QBs in the league?

[ClaytonColt]

2 hours ago, Legend of Luck said:

He kept drives alive, kept the defense off the field, and helped the offense score more, which in turn, allowed the defense to turn up the pressure and force the opposing team to throw more to catch up.

All fair points but these things weren't really an issue for us anyway.

 

11th best in time of possession and 7th highest scoring offense last year. So while there are ways a running back can take the pressure of a defense it doesn't feel to me like upgrading that position will make a significant difference to the other side of the ball.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Legend of Luck said:

I was watching ESPN today, and they were discussing the 1st round of the 2016 draft. Jerome Bettis was asked what he thought the best pick in the 1st round was. He (somewhat predictably) picked Elliot to the Cowboys at 4. 

 

He went on to explain that people were unhappy with the pick at the time, because they had so many other needs, especially on Defense. But he said, what people failed to realize was that Zeke himself ended up helping the defense just as much as the offense. He kept drives alive, kept the defense off the field, and helped the offense score more, which in turn, allowed the defense to turn up the pressure and force the opposing team to throw more to catch up.

 

I think we all understand how a RB can affect the game that way. My question to you is, understanding that Dallas' Defense was not greatly enhanced last year, but we can see how Zeze and Dak together completely changed the fortunes of that team (one of the best teams in the league with a 13-3 record), should we be more open to drafting a top RB (Cook, McCaffery, Fournette) in the first? 

One thing you didn't bring up. Dallas spent high picks on their O-line while Grigson couldn't hit on the talent level that even came close as to what Dallas has. Any decent RB on the Dallas roster will look real good.

[Defjamz26]

20 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

While I understand what you are saying will this O-line improve enough to block for a top notch RB and make them at least average?

With that in mind will it also pass block to keep Luck from being one of the most sacked and hit QBs in the league?

A top notch RB can create on his own and doesn't necessarily need giant holes to run through, which people missed about Elliot. Yeah Dallas has a great line but Elliot is a monster himself. Gore often did this with us as well when the blocking wasn't always there. The best bet would be to draft Forrest Lamp and then get a guy like Brian Hill later. The only 2 RBs with that ability to create on their own are Fournette and Cook IMO. Fournette will be long gone by our pick. Who knows if Cook is good value at 15.

[BOTT]

  No

 

 

[crazycolt1]

9 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

A top notch RB can create on his own and doesn't necessarily need giant holes to run through, which people missed about Elliot. Yeah Dallas has a great line but Elliot is a monster himself. Gore often did this with us as well when the blocking wasn't always there. The best bet would be to draft Forrest Lamp and then get a guy like Brian Hill later. The only 2 RBs with that ability to create on their own are Fournette and Cook IMO. Fournette will be long gone by our pick. Who knows if Cook is good value at 15.

I can't have any different opinion that that for sure.

[BOTT]

5 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

A top notch RB can create on his own and doesn't necessarily need giant holes to run through, which people missed about Elliot. Yeah Dallas has a great line but Elliot is a monster himself. Gore often did this with us as well when the blocking wasn't always there. The best bet would be to draft Forrest Lamp and then get a guy like Brian Hill later. The only 2 RBs with that ability to create on their own are Fournette and Cook IMO. Fournette will be long gone by our pick. Who knows if Cook is good value at 15.

Tell that to Todd Gurley 

[ClaytonColt]

7 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

One thing you didn't bring up. Dallas spent high picks on their O-line while Grigson couldn't hit on the talent level that even came close as to what Dallas has. Any decent RB on the Dallas roster will look real good.

To be fair we have used more high picks on the o-line over the last 6 years than Dallas have.

[crazycolt1]

5 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

To be fair we have used more high picks on the o-line over the last 5 years than Dallas have.

Fair? Not to be insulting but having high picks that turn out not to be worth where they were picked is one of the reasons Grigson is no longer the GM for the Colts.

[ClaytonColt]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

Fair? Not to be insulting but having high picks that turn out not to be worth where they were picked is one of the reasons Grigson is no longer the GM for the Colts.

I agree. You'd specifically said that Dallas spending high round picks was a differentiating factor though so just wanted to make the point that we have too. 

 

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

I agree. You'd specifically said that Dallas spending high round picks was a differentiating factor though so just wanted to make the point that we have too. 

 

Fair enough, lets just hope the last few O-linemen drafted by Grigson does work out. That may very well turn out to be true only time will tell.

Kelly was a no brainer that some thought wasn't the best pick for Grigson at the time picked.

[BlueTruth]

'You don't put rims on a Hoopty'

No, we shouldn't be more open to Drafting an RB in the 1st (to improve upon last season's porous Defense) as the roster does not, currently, call for or support that notion. We do not possess the leverage to draft a luxury, when our D could not generate pressure & Luck could not stay healthy (due to an under-performing OLine).

 

In his inaugural offseason as Our GM, Ballard addressed questions about FA with a "build within" answer, THEN in response to last year's lackluster roster, he signed a *Record number of FAs to Indy, with only 1 being an OLinemen. Heck he brought in two TEs and one of them is known for playing College Basketball.

 

Ballard greatly values the trenches, as was seen in his Free Agent interests & the Hankins signing $$$, so if he brings in a whole bunch of players and JUST 1 is an OLineman... then expect a Lineman to be drafted this year. Furthermore, if he wanted to bolster the OLine he had the $$$ and opportunity to do so, yet didn't go after a Day 1 plug & play starter on a Pro Bowl level; he brought in a veteran to supply competition & depth. Clearly, he's not seeing our line on par with "the boys", so he knows better than to put nice rims on a hoopty.

 

By addressing this question, we have been open enough, but should not be any more than that unless: that 1st round RB can take angles like Ray Lewis, hit like Bob, and cover like Deion then its best that the FO address RB later in the Draft or sometime in next years. - As much as I like some of the RBs in this class, I prefer to start Gore this season, as he can rush for one more 1,000 yard stint & then draft a rookie from next year's class after this young, competition OLine gets more experience playing together. That's how Atlanta got to the SB w/ a prolific Offense, they're boys were the same starting 5. And We don't know exactly who or WHAT we have yet.

[backshoulderfade]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

While I understand what you are saying will this O-line improve enough to block for a top notch RB and make them at least average?

With that in mind will it also pass block to keep Luck from being one of the most sacked and hit QBs in the league?

Let me explain something about having a credible threat at running back. Even without having him in to block one can slow down the pass rush. Playing the run and rushing the passer are played in entirely different ways. Stopping the runs requires players to control their gaps and in general play a bit slower.

 

When you are being carved up on runs for 5 to 6 yards it gets incredibly difficult to tell your front 7 to pin their ears back and go after the passer. That much alone can give the quarterback a cleaner pocket to make throws.

 

In the 2014 season, the most underrated facet of our offense waa Bradshaw blocking in the backfield. He was unbelievable at it. If you watch the tape you see him constantly cleaning up the messes left by the o-line. While I don't think Fournette is that guy yet, he absolutely has the physical traits to become good in pass pro.

 

I have no worries about Fournette behind our line. Stylistically, I feel he is the type of runner we need. He has good vision, he doesn't dance behind the line of scrimmage and he hits the hole with explosion. When there is no space he can push the pile because he is an absolute beast.

 

Having a closer like Fournette means we could hopefully hold the ball longer in late game situations. Our defense gets more time to rest. How many games did our defense seem to gas late in the game? That is not even acounting for the psychological factor oftge other team seeing consistent 5 yard gains whilst their defense is being brutalized.

 

Edit: I should clarify; I don't want Fournette over any other prospect. There are half a dozen defensive prospects I would rather have, but in terms of running backs at 15 it is him alone.

[SaturdayAllDay]

47 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

IMO the issue is we don't run the ball because we didn't have the personnel on the O-line to block for an average running game. We couldn't even pass block.

That is one of the main reasons Grigson was fired.

Its a possibility, but then that kind of logic would mean that they would play to the o lines strengths in the pass game as well, and not run pass plays that take 4 seconds to develop. Seems pretty ridiculous to minimize an o lines "weakness" by constantly using a pass offense known for being tough for o lineman to succeed. 

 

Add in the fact that we dont give anyone but Gore carries, and knew going in that he has been on a ~250 carry/yr limit for 5+ yrs now and it seems to paint a picture that this is by design. Had we given Turbin significant carries for a backup RB (8-12/game) at any point in time last year it might be worth arguing that we want a better running game and at least tried when a game wasnt on the line or early in the season. But it never happened. Not even in the preseason. That means either they dont think Turbin can hack it with the line they have, or that they only planned to use him sparingly or if Gore went down. Not sure why a new GM would resign him if the coaches dont believe in his skills, which to me points to the latter of the 2 options.

[crazycolt1]

14 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Its a possibility, but then that kind of logic would mean that they would play to the o lines strengths in the pass game as well, and not run pass plays that take 4 seconds to develop. Seems pretty ridiculous to minimize an o lines "weakness" by constantly using a pass offense known for being tough for o lineman to succeed. 

 

Add in the fact that we dont give anyone but Gore carries, and knew going in that he has been on a ~250 carry/yr limit for 5+ yrs now and it seems to paint a picture that this is by design. Had we given Turbin significant carries for a backup RB (8-12/game) at any point in time last year it might be worth arguing that we want a better running game and at least tried when a game wasnt on the line or early in the season. But it never happened. Not even in the preseason. That means either they dont think Turbin can hack it with the line they have, or that they only planned to use him sparingly or if Gore went down. Not sure why a new GM would resign him if the coaches dont believe in his skills, which to me points to the latter of the 2 options.

Logic? We haven't had any O-line strengths as a unit is what I am saying. We have had good play from a couple of players but not the entire line.

Hopefully the young players will become a good unit and learn to work together.

[SaturdayAllDay]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

Logic? We haven't had any O-line strengths as a unit is what I am saying. We have had good play from a couple of players but not the entire line.

Hopefully the young players will become a good unit and learn to work together.

Exactly. So why does it make sense to slow down on running the ball only to put them in a worse position with the way our pass offense works? It seems like if we made one change because of the line, we would do it across the entire offense. You dont negate 1 weakness by amplifying another. 

 

Hence my assumption that our lack of running has little to do with the line, and more with what they want to do in general. Our coaches just appear to be set in their ways when it comes to their schemes, and hopefully CB either lights a fire under them, or gives them the boot by this time next yr. 

[AZColt11]

IMHO, the best thing to help your defense is DEFENSE itself.

[Defjamz26]

3 hours ago, BOTT said:

Tell that to Todd Gurley 

Fair enough. But that was also because their passing game was awful. The opposing D just stacked the box on him to the max and dared them to throw it. The Colts has Luck, stack the box if you want but he'll shred the defense apart. The run should set up the pass and vice versa.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Can't wait till Thursday so these threads can stop lolol

[Finball]

We'll see in 5-10 years which pick would've been more helpful for their defense (and overall). Ramsey or Zeke.

[UKColt13]

Drafting a RB in the first and giving them 10 carries a game because we're playing from behind more often than not since our defense still cant stop anyone.

 

Sounds like a solid plan.

[ColtsBlitz]

6 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

While the O-line did improve the last few games of last season IMO run blocking was one of the glaring weaknesses. Gore only averaged 64.1 yards per game with 4 TDs. Luck was second on the team with an average of 22.7 yards per game with 2 TDs. Luck also had the longest run of the season with a 33 yard run while Gore's was 22 yards.

We only ran for 13 TDs on the season.

We were rated 23rd in the league according to ESPN stats.

IMHO I wouldn't call those numbers a strength.

Although Frank Gore is a beast, I'm pretty sure Luck is actually faster than Gore. A faster back may have had a breakaway. 

[ColtsBlitz]

18 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

Drafting a RB in the first and giving them 10 carries a game because we're playing from behind more often than not since our defense still cant stop anyone.

 

Sounds like a solid plan.

Understandable, but our defense will, IMO, be at least in the top 20 assuming we get at least a starting corner (Conley) and another pass rusher. This is also contingent on our new players understanding the scheme, but I'm confident

[UKColt13]

16 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Understandable, but our defense will, IMO, be at least in the top 20 assuming we get at least a starting corner (Conley) and another pass rusher. This is also contingent on our new players understanding the scheme, but I'm confident

 

We will be top 20 if we do as you say and take Conley and another rusher but they are talking about taking an RB in the first to help the defense. Can't take both Conley and the RB. Appreciate what you're saying though. I'm all for taking an RB later on.

[crazycolt1]

If taking any offensive player in the draft to help the defense it would be Lamp over a RB IMO.

Protect Luck and have the offense use ball control to keep our defense off the field more. With Lamp helping the running game should become better so picking him would make a later round RB pick a decent RB.

According to most so called experts Lamp is the best offensive lineman in the draft that is most NFL ready from day one to start.

Picking a RB would not automatically help protect Luck and kick start the running game.

[a06cc]

Oh how we forget Gore fumbled away a few games for us. I'm for taking a RB, CB, OLB and ILB in round 1. 

[aaron11]

7 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

The issue is that we are a team that doesnt run the ball much, regardless of whether we are up 20 or down 20 and regardless of who we have at RB. We didnt run more when we thought we had a stud RB in Richardson (not even the first few weeks before we realized we got swindled). 

Our coaches have a tendency to not cater their playbooks/gameplans to our teams strengths, and we seem to be stuck with the offense that we have. Simply drafting a RB wont make us a team that runs the ball 30 times a game like the Cowboys do. If we havent changed to help Luck (our franchise QB and the highest paid player in the NFL) we wont change for the 2nd/3rd/4th best RB in this draft class. 

the colts were 16th in rushing attempts, right in the middle, but twenty third in yardage

 

im ok with the attempt number, but think we could do better than gore with a GOOD rookie. 

[Oldschoolcolt19]

A great RB can have a tremendous effect on a defense. By allowing them to sit while time of possession becomes real game changer.Opposing offenses will be forced to become one dimensional as the game progress's, and as Don Shula used to say" three things can happen when you throw the ball and two of them are bad"

[throwing BBZ]

10 hours ago, Legend of Luck said:

I was watching ESPN today, and they were discussing the 1st round of the 2016 draft. Jerome Bettis was asked what he thought the best pick in the 1st round was. He (somewhat predictably) picked Elliot to the Cowboys at 4. 

 

He went on to explain that people were unhappy with the pick at the time, because they had so many other needs, especially on Defense. But he said, what people failed to realize was that Zeke himself ended up helping the defense just as much as the offense. He kept drives alive, kept the defense off the field, and helped the offense score more, which in turn, allowed the defense to turn up the pressure and force the opposing team to throw more to catch up.

 

I think we all understand how a RB can affect the game that way. My question to you is, understanding that Dallas' Defense was not greatly enhanced last year, but we can see how Zeze and Dak together completely changed the fortunes of that team (one of the best teams in the league with a 13-3 record), should we be more open to drafting a top RB (Cook, McCaffery, Fournette) in the first? 

 

 For us you start with adding an O-Lineman. And it isn`t close.

[KB]

I agree with a running game being helpful to the defence but there is one problem with it in regards to our team, and Dallas and Seattle have proven this point. You need a solid secondary to make it work and we don't have one. With Elliot Dallas was able to do as stated above but when it came to the playoffs they were not able to hold good passing attacks at bay well enough. Allowing the other team to be able to win. Now Seattle a couple years ago was able to maximize Marshawn lynch's value because he could run over them and then they were not able to pass easily due to the legion of boom.

 

This means for this to work, this year, we will have to hit on a fist round CB, mid round RG,  a mid-late round RB, and sprinkle in a slot corner/ groomball FS in there. Not just draft but hit the nail on the head. That's unlikely that four draft picks work out like that year one. We can build towards this but that's a couple years down the road. 

[BOTT]

51 minutes ago, Oldschoolcolt19 said:

A great RB can have a tremendous effect on a defense. By allowing them to sit while time of possession becomes real game changer.Opposing offenses will be forced to become one dimensional as the game progress's, and as Don Shula used to say" three things can happen when you throw the ball and two of them are bad"

Then Don Shula drafted Dan Marino and didn't have a running game for a decade.

[BOTT]

10 minutes ago, KB said:

I agree with a running game being helpful to the defence but there is one problem with it in regards to our team, and Dallas and Seattle have proven this point. You need a solid secondary to make it work and we don't have one. With Elliot Dallas was able to do as stated above but when it came to the playoffs they were not able to hold good passing attacks at bay well enough. Allowing the other team to be able to win. Now Seattle a couple years ago was able to maximize Marshawn lynch's value because he could run over them and then they were not able to pass easily due to the legion of boom.

 

This means for this to work, this year, we will have to hit on a fist round CB, mid round RG,  a mid-late round RB, and sprinkle in a slot corner/ groomball FS in there. Not just draft but hit the nail on the head. That's unlikely that four draft picks work out like that year one. We can build towards this but that's a couple years down the road. 

A pass rusher would help the defense more than anything.  Two free agent pass rushers made the Seahawks SB champs.