Pagano - 11th Best Coach in the NFL

[Jason_]

10 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I guess the problem I have is our best unit was terrible early on most games (the offense), and our defense did a decent job of keeping us in it. Maybe Pagano was doing his job as a defensive coach in that regard, but we should of been more like the Packers or Saints, not the way we were. It is possible Luck has truly regressed, and I like to think right now that it is due to injury (he was playing like 2013-2014 RGIII last year in the way he was piling up his stats in the 2nd half), but that's remained to be seen. This year I'd just like to beat the Steelers or Patriots just once and am very frustrated right now. Without any control, it absolutely drives me nuts, as there is nothing I can do about it.

 

I fully agree about the offensive slowness, but with pagano still being a relatively young HC and being a defensive guy, I put that on the OC more and not him.  Now, yes, as the HC he should step in and tell Chud "hey we need to do more of this" or "less of that" etc but as far as specific offensive gameplanning and playcalling, I put that on Chud.  Especially after reports were (after the Grigson/Pagano "come to jesus" meeting) that Chuck was going to let Chud run the offense and he was going to spend more time on defense.

 

So, my biggest complaint with Chuck so far is with his selection of OC.  I think that the type of team he seems to want to build would be much better off with a West coast offense rather than a Coryell offense.  Now last year was their first year officially fully immersed in Chud's offense so I'm trying to remain hopeful that they'll utilize a similar gameplan in the future as they did against the vikings last year.  More short passes, don't give up on the run...bootlegs etc.

[Jason_]

15 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Talk about a broken record

 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

I fully agree about the offensive slowness, but with pagano still being a relatively young HC and being a defensive guy, I put that on the OC more and not him.  Now, yes, as the HC he should step in and tell Chud "hey we need to do more of this" or "less of that" etc but as far as specific offensive gameplanning and playcalling, I put that on Chud.  Especially after reports were (after the Grigson/Pagano "come to jesus" meeting) that Chuck was going to let Chud run the offense and he was going to spend more time on defense.

 

So, my biggest complaint with Chuck so far is with his selection of OC.  I think that the type of team he seems to want to build would be much better off with a West coast offense rather than a Coryell offense.  Now last year was their first year officially fully immersed in Chud's offense so I'm trying to remain hopeful that they'll utilize a similar gameplan in the future as they did against the vikings last year.  More short passes, don't give up on the run...bootlegs etc.

Can't argue with this. Right now, I'll be watching the draft and hoping for the best. I can say Free Agency went very well, and now Ballard has to come through again in a big way. No draft since 2012 has been more important than this one. After that, it's game time.

[crazycolt1]

22 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Talk about a broken record...... sheesh that is you and your rah rah "everything in the organization is perfect" mentality 

Now you are exaggerating because I have a different opinion.

It is quite obvious there is nothing Pagano could do that would make you like or respect what he has done.

We have a different opinion and point of view so there is nothing more to say to each other in regards to Pagano.

Now you throw your 2 cents at me when it is worth zero to me when I wasn't even talking to you. Why? Is that your need to keep an argument going? 

If all you can do is continue to rag on Pagano leave me out of your personal attacks.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, J@son said:

 

Cute 

[Jason_]

24 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Cute 

 

[FanFromtheWasteland]

23 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Another big problem with our fan base is they fear change. They are so scared to change coaches because "we could always get worse" so unless it's a Superbowl winning head coach they would rather keep chuck and his stupid actions. 

That is a very good point. They don't even want to change and update uniforms.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, J@son said:

st complaint with Chuck so far is with his selection of OC.  I think that the type of team he seems to want to build would be much better off with a West coast offense rather than a Coryell offense.  Now last year was their first year officially fully immersed in Chud's offense so I'm trying to remain hopeful that they'll utilize a similar gameplan in the future as they did against the vikings last year.  More short passes, don't give up on the run...bootlegs etc.

 

You know what's concerning? The Vikings gameplan wasn't that much different than our typical gameplan, especially the route combinations. They did a better job protecting and giving help to the young OL, but the pass plays were still long developing, and a lot of the routes ran right into the strengths of the coverage. The Vikings did a horrible job in coverage, also, just like the Jets a couple weeks before. The offense had several miscues early in that game, and left a good 10 points on the board in the first half. They got bailed out by a stupid Vikings penalty that kept one drive going.

 

It's easy to look at the result and say 'hey, that's the gameplan we need to use!' I thought that at first. But going back to rewatch that game, I saw a lot of stuff that I didn't like, schematically. 

[Jason_]

58 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Cute 

 

since the other post lost its formatting after being posted:

 

[DougDew]

When was the NFL reduced to 12 teams?

[Jason_]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You know what's concerning? The Vikings gameplan wasn't that much different than our typical gameplan, especially the route combinations. They did a better job protecting and giving help to the young OL, but the pass plays were still long developing, and a lot of the routes ran right into the strengths of the coverage. The Vikings did a horrible job in coverage, also, just like the Jets a couple weeks before. The offense had several miscues early in that game, and left a good 10 points on the board in the first half. They got bailed out by a stupid Vikings penalty that kept one drive going.

 

It's easy to look at the result and say 'hey, that's the gameplan we need to use!' I thought that at first. But going back to rewatch that game, I saw a lot of stuff that I didn't like, schematically. 

 

yuck.  that is concerning.  admittedly I didn't go back and rewatch any of the games last year like I normally do so I didn't catch that.  I'd very much prefer a WC OC for this team.

[jvan1973]

31 minutes ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

That is a very good point. They don't even want to change and update uniforms.

There is nothing wrong with the uniforms.  

[Jason_]

35 minutes ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

That is a very good point. They don't even want to change and update uniforms.

 

way to paint with broad strokes.  BTW, I'm one who has been defending Pagano and I couldn't be more on the "change the uniforms" train than I already am so....nice try.

[BOTT]

9 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Instead of debating what you think all you can do is attack someone on a personal level because they don't agree with you. You are like a broken record with your never ending line of nonsense.

Who did I attack?

 

Guy, you have anger issues.

[Tmoney]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

When was the NFL reduced to 12 teams?

Hahahahaha thats a good one

[ManningGM]

On 4/21/2017 at 1:51 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Hopefully Chuck goes 11-5 again and we make a deep Playoff run so he can prove the haters wrong.

We're gonna go 8-8 again and he will be fired at the end of the season. 

 

Can't wait for Toub. 

[Crunked]

Wasn't he the 20 something best coach at the end of the season? Now he's the 11th, that's a heck of an off season Chuck congrats.......(scratches head walks out)

[coltsfeva]

On 4/20/2017 at 3:02 PM, gspdx said:

I've said this before.  Chuck isn't a bad coach - but he isn't a great coach.  In my opinion of course. He seems to struggle with in game adjustments and in game decisions.  Can he improve this? Absolutely!  These are areas where a coach can grow and also surrounding yourself with people that excel at this.

Well said. We accept that players (Luck, Moncrief, Geathers,etc) can learn and grow and become better. So why not coaches who openly admit they're got to do a better job? Do you know how many times I've heard Andy Reid or Bill Belicheck say those words? Belicheck had ONE winning season in his first six years. Let's see what happens this year. Truth is, none of us really knows enough about Pagano to assess his coaching potential, let alone his intelligence. Give the guy a break.

[RockThatBlue]

Hes not the 11th best coach, IMO. Hes somewhere between 16-20, which probably isn't good enough, but I don't make those decisions.

[BOTT]

2 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

Well said. We accept that players (Luck, Moncrief, Geathers,etc) can learn and grow and become better. So why not coaches who openly admit they're got to do a better job? Do you know how many times I've heard Andy Reid or Bill Belicheck say those words? Belicheck had ONE winning season in his first six years. Let's see what happens this year. Truth is, none of us really knows enough about Pagano to assess his coaching potential, let alone his intelligence. Give the guy a break.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Chuck isn't exactly Einstein.  I know some may criticize that view, but hey, you can't eat me.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, crunked said:

Wasn't he the 20 something best coach at the end of the season? Now he's the 11th, that's a heck of an off season Chuck congrats.......(scratches head walks out)

 

Remember,  this is just one guy's opinion.

 

The list where he was 20th might not have been by the same guy,  or even the same website.

 

So comparing lists is a waste of your time....

 

[Crunked]

30 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Remember,  this is just one guy's opinion.

 

The list where he was 20th might not have been by the same guy,  or even the same website.

 

So comparing lists is a waste of your time....

 

Sorry I forget that sometimes my dry sarcasm doesn't translate to type on these type of settings (probably if I emoticon'd it or lolz'd it I might not have lead anyone down the wrong path)....I will work on my delivery.......but anyway.....that was the point I was making, that these types of threads are totally opinion based, and that actual results may vary. Interesting read, none the less.....Again I apologize for any confusion......was just lol'z-ing in sentence form. As you were  

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, crunked said:

Sorry I forget that sometimes my dry sarcasm doesn't translate to type on these type of settings (probably if I emoticon'd it or lolz'd it I might not have lead anyone down the wrong path)....I will work on my delivery.......but anyway.....that was the point I was making, that these types of threads are totally opinion based, and that actual results may vary. Interesting read, none the less.....Again I apologize for any confusion......was just lol'z-ing in sentence form. As you were  

 

Hey,  no need to apologize here,  but appreciate you doing so!

 

And yes,  sarcasm often falls flat without an emoji (or two!)     I've made that same mistake a number of times myself!

 

Stuff happens here....     we all do it....

 

 

[coltsfeva]

On 4/22/2017 at 0:12 PM, BOTT said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Chuck isn't exactly Einstein.  I know some may criticize that view, but hey, you can't eat me.

Maybe, but then again, Chuck has more wins than Einstein...

[crazycolt1]

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 0:12 PM, BOTT said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Chuck isn't exactly Einstein.  I know some may criticize that view, but hey, you can't eat me.

You probably would just taste like chicken anyway.

[LockeDown]

According to CB, he is constantly talking to Pagano in order to get him the kind of players he wants for scheme fit.  Surprise surprise he  CB went hog wild on linebackers in free agency which is what most fans have been wondering...   Where are the linebackers for a 3-4 defense?  Excluding a really old Mathis,   Just think...Walden has arguably been Chucks best overall lb. during the Pagano era and he was almost the first to be let go by Ballard.  The coaches above Pagano like BB and Arians and Reid are stacked on defense year in and year out.  Hopefully Chuck gets a good defense and then he can be judged a bit more fairly.

 

 

[Myles]

2 hours ago, LockeDown said:

According to CB, he is constantly talking to Pagano in order to get him the kind of players he wants for scheme fit.  Surprise surprise he  CB went hog wild on linebackers in free agency which is what most fans have been wondering...   Where are the linebackers for a 3-4 defense?  Excluding a really old Mathis,   Just think...Walden has arguably been Chucks best overall lb. during the Pagano era and he was almost the first to be let go by Ballard.  The coaches above Pagano like BB and Arians and Reid are stacked on defense year in and year out.  Hopefully Chuck gets a good defense and then he can be judged a bit more fairly.

 

 

To be fair, some of those coaches above him (Ariens, Reid) would like to have a Luck on their team.

 

I really have no idea where Pagano ranks.   He's made some terrible in game decisions and his teams have not looked disciplined.    However, he has had to work with the crap Grigson gave him.  I'm willing to give him more time.  

[lester]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

... However, he has had to work with the crap Grigson gave him.  I'm willing to give him more time.  

 

And that, I believe, is the crux of it.

 

Irsay hired Grigson and Pagano to do something big in 2012 - he KNOWs now that Grigson was a poor fit. But given the totality of the circumstances, I think Irsay still has faith in Pagano and believes him to be a good fit if given support from the head office. And Pagano has earned, in Irsay's mind, the right to prove it to the new GM.

 

One way or another, we find out this year if Pagano is bottom 15 Head Coach in this league or top 15 Head Coach in this league.

[MackAttack]

how about a coach who doesn't let his team start flat every single week for years, a coach who doesn't self sabotage the team with a * ridiculous fake punt against the best team in the nfl? or maybe a coach who doesn't let von miller go one on one against joe reitz all game so he can get your qb killed. or a coach who wouldn't put clowney one on one against Dwayne freaking allen so once again you guessed it doesn't get your qb killed. how about a coach who can discipline his rookies and players so Players like TJ green doesn't continue to get late hit after late hit after hit out of bounds. Or a coach who doesn't completely get bullied and pushed around by literally every single person in his life except ... once again you guessed it his qb who he gets killed like that's his favorite part of his job. gimme a break get this * bum out of here!

[Jason_]

14 minutes ago, Zalazar Elijahh said:

how about a coach who doesn't let his team start flat every single week for years, a coach who doesn't self sabotage the team with a * ridiculous fake punt against the best team in the nfl? or maybe a coach who doesn't let von miller go one on one against joe reitz all game so he can get your qb killed. or a coach who wouldn't put clowney one on one against Dwayne freaking allen so once again you guessed it doesn't get your qb killed. how about a coach who can discipline his rookies and players so Players like TJ green doesn't continue to get late hit after late hit after hit out of bounds. Or a coach who doesn't completely get bullied and pushed around by literally every single person in his life except ... once again you guessed it his qb who he gets killed like that's his favorite part of his job. gimme a break get this * bum out of here!

 

interesting...I thought the same thing after reading your post

 

[MackAttack]

Just now, J@son said:

 

interesting...I thought the same thing after reading your post

 

Oh you're talking about me I get it. It's alright you can judge me but you can't eat me

[Jason_]

25 minutes ago, Zalazar Elijahh said:

how about a coach who doesn't let his team start flat every single week for years

 

it would also help for Luck to be more consistent, make better decisions and to have a better OC calling plays

 

Quote

, a coach who doesn't self sabotage the team with a * ridiculous fake punt against the best team in the nfl?

 

jesus let it go.  The only thing that sabotaged the game was Griff Whalen snapping the ball. 

 

Quote

or maybe a coach who doesn't let von miller go one on one against joe reitz all game so he can get your qb killed. or a coach who wouldn't put clowney one on one against Dwayne freaking allen so once again you guessed it doesn't get your qb killed.

 

well first, Chuck isn't the offensive playcaller.  second, every team has a TE one on one with a pass rusher at some point in the game.  I don't recall the game you're referring to regarding Reitz/Miller

 

Quote

how about a coach who can discipline his rookies and players so Players like TJ green doesn't continue to get late hit after late hit after hit out of bounds.

 

Green had 2 Unnecessary roughness penalties last year.  What other rookies had these obvious discipline problems?

 

 

Quote

Or a coach who doesn't completely get bullied and pushed around by literally every single person in his life except .

 

no idea where that came from but your hate is clear

 

 

Just wanted to expand on my previous post

[Jason_]

20 minutes ago, Zalazar Elijahh said:

Oh you're talking about me I get it. It's alright you can judge me but you can't eat me

 

[Myles]

7 hours ago, lester said:

 

 

 

One way or another, we find out this year if Pagano is bottom 15 Head Coach in this league or top 15 Head Coach in this league.

It'll 16th or 17th.

[BOTT]

11 hours ago, Myles said:

To be fair, some of those coaches above him (Ariens, Reid) would like to have a Luck on their team.

 

I really have no idea where Pagano ranks.   He's made some terrible in game decisions and his teams have not looked disciplined.    However, he has had to work with the crap Grigson gave him.  I'm willing to give him more time.  

The poor roster doesnt excuse the bone headed decisions, the lack of discipline, mediocre coaching hires, etc...

[MackAttack]

Just now, J@son said:

 

it would also help for Luck to be more consistent, make better decisions and to have a better OC calling plays

 

 

jesus let it go.  The only thing that sabotaged the game was Griff Whalen snapping the ball. 

 

 

well first, Chuck isn't the offensive playcaller.  second, every team has a TE one on one with a pass rusher at some point in the game.  I don't recall the game you're referring to regarding Reitz/Miller

 

 

Green had 2 Unnecessary roughness penalties last year.  What other rookies had these obvious discipline problems?

 

 

 

no idea where that came from but your hate is clear

 

 

Just wanted to expand on my previous post

The last part came from him literally getting bullied the entire time that Ryan Grigson was the gm and forced Pagano to use players who clearly weren't in the best interest of the team. Or him saying himself during his press conferences that his wife Tina literally wears the pants in the family. This is all coming out of his mouth mind you. Also why would I just "let go" of the fake punt that was arguably the stupidest play call I've ever seen, and you wanna blame it on whalen for snapping the ball?? obviously the coaching wasn't even up to par for the players to know what they had to do. If you can't recall what game Reitz was one on one against miller i'd recommend you watch the colts broncos games again.... Just because you like pagano for some strange reason doesn't change the fact that the obvious best move for the team is to be done with him once and for all and let our new gm bring in HIS guy. Duhhh

[Jason_]

28 minutes ago, Zalazar Elijahh said:

The last part came from him literally getting bullied the entire time that Ryan Grigson was the gm and forced Pagano to use players who clearly weren't in the best interest of the team.

 

Grigson was Pagano's BOSS.  Irsay (you know, that guy thats the top dog) gave Grigson the authority to overrule chuck.  It was either deal with it at the time or quit.

 

"Or him saying himself during his press conferences that his wife Tina literally wears the pants in the family. This is all coming out of his mouth mind you. "

 

And you took him literally....the guy who is the emperor of coach speak. Well done.

 

 

 

"Also why would I just "let go" of the fake punt that was arguably the stupidest play call I've ever seen, and you wanna blame it on whalen for snapping the ball?? obviously the coaching wasn't even up to par for the players to know what they had to do."

 

When does it become up to the players to remember assignments and do what theyre supposed to do?

 

 

"Just because you like pagano for some strange reason doesn't change the fact that the obvious best move for the team is to be done with him once and for all and let our new gm bring in HIS guy. "

 

This season will determine that.

 

"Duhhh"

 

13?

[CoachLite]

Regarding Chuck Pagano, we'll wait and see.

[MackAttack]

Just now, J@son said:

 

Grigson was Pagano's BOSS.  Irsay (you know, that guy thats the top dog) gave Grigson the authority to overrule chuck.  It was either deal with it at the time or quit.

 

"Or him saying himself during his press conferences that his wife Tina literally wears the pants in the family. This is all coming out of his mouth mind you. "

 

And you took him literally....the guy who is the emperor of coach speak. Well done.

 

 

 

"Also why would I just "let go" of the fake punt that was arguably the stupidest play call I've ever seen, and you wanna blame it on whalen for snapping the ball?? obviously the coaching wasn't even up to par for the players to know what they had to do."

 

When does it become up to the players to remember assignments and do what theyre supposed to do?

 

 

"Just because you like pagano for some strange reason doesn't change the fact that the obvious best move for the team is to be done with him once and for all and let our new gm bring in HIS guy. "

 

This season will determine that.

 

"Duhhh"

 

13?

I don't understand why you're trying so hard to defend this guy. Did you not see his timeouts early in the year that basically cost us a couple games? So many bonehead decisions so many * dumb mistakes that shouldn't happen! he's a bad coach the best The Colts have ever done while he was the coach was in 2012 when he was sick and Bruce Arians took over! now of course I'm ecstatic he was able to beat cancer and it helped rally the team. But as a coach he hasn't done anything! in fact he's cost us games and he's regressed every single year!! Idc how bad of a roster he had he was considered to be a "defensive mastermind" by the media and around the league and we had Literally THE 32nd ranked defense this year. a good coach even a decent coach would have put his team maybe even somewhere in the back 20s, But to come out this year and literally be THE WORST ranked defense in the league?? how can you say he's a good coach. gimme a break. Pagano is lucky Ballard seems like a nice guy because if he was a hard butt and someone who gave no #s pagano would be gone. and in my opinion if we start 0-2 again this year like the past 2 years Pagano is out the door week 3.

[MackAttack]

Just now, J@son said:

 

yuck.  that is concerning.  admittedly I didn't go back and rewatch any of the games last year like I normally do so I didn't catch that.  I'd very much prefer a WC OC for this team.

explains a lot.