Pagano - 11th Best Coach in the NFL

[21isSuperman]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

What coaches have a better winning percentage over the last 5 years?

You can't just look at his winning percentage because so much goes into that.  How many coaches with a lower winning percentage would have a better one with Andrew Luck?  You have to look at what Pagano does as a coach.  What are his gameplans like, how effective are his adjustments, how is his clock management, etc.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Another big problem with our fan base is they fear change. They are so scared to change coaches because "we could always get worse" so unless it's a Superbowl winning head coach they would rather keep chuck and his stupid actions. 

Like this a 1,000 times. Unless we get Gruden, Harbaugh, or some other HOF Coach, we are probably either going to get a worse coach in the beginning with a rookie coach from college, or have struggles early from a veteran. What are we having now though? It's not working. We need to find a top coach from college that has a plan, that is hungry, passioniate, and wants to win at the NFL level. Maybe we lose a year or two, but there's no reward without risk, and keeping Pagano almost guarantees mediocrity. It'll certainly guarantee the slow starts and put a heavy burden on our players. Ballard should be able to have his own coach anyway after this year. Not fair to him.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Like this a 1,000 times. Unless we get Gruden, Harbaugh, or some other HOF Coach, we are probably either going to get a worse coach in the beginning with a rookie coach from college, or have struggles early from a veteran. What are we having now though? It's not working. We need to find a top coach from college that has a plan, that is hungry, passioniate, and wants to win at the NFL level. Maybe we lose a year or two, but there's no reward without risk, and keeping Pagano almost guarantees mediocrity. It'll certainly guarantee the slow starts and put a heavy burden on our players. Ballard should be able to have his own coach anyway after this year. Not fair to him.

I'd take the super talented coordinators that we have passed on 

[jameszeigler834]

4 hours ago, Smonroe said:

I'm surprised no one has mention this (unless I missed it). I'm a Pagano supporter, one of the few.  Anyway, it's a divisive topic, but it is Colts related.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranking-every-nfl-head-coach-from-bill-belichick-to-the-class-of-2017/

We will see how he does this year.

[Colts_Fan12]

4 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

You can't just look at his winning percentage because so much goes into that.  How many coaches with a lower winning percentage would have a better one with Andrew Luck?  You have to look at what Pagano does as a coach.  What are his gameplans like, how effective are his adjustments, how is his clock management, etc.

They are not very good...... Why do you think we got the saying paganoism? Lol

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'd take the super talented coordinators that we have passed on 

This is going to be a tough year to get through. I'm just praying we hit in the draft, it's coming up soon and it's all I have, football-wise right now.

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

This is going to be a tough year to get through. I'm just praying we hit in the draft, it's coming up soon and it's all I have, football-wise right now.

I think the team we be good I just hope chuck keeps his * decisions to a minimum 

[jvan1973]

9 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

You can't just look at his winning percentage because so much goes into that.  How many coaches with a lower winning percentage would have a better one with Andrew Luck?  You have to look at what Pagano does as a coach.  What are his gameplans like, how effective are his adjustments, how is his clock management, etc.

Ok,   now go compare all 31 other coaches against Chuck.   That may take a very long time

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I think the team we be good I just hope chuck keeps his * decisions to a minimum 

We could even overcome those if we started quick like the Packers or Saints. We start off in such bad situations almost every game that those decisions end up killing us and it's always a fight to the finish, even against teams like the Jaguars. My only hope is if Luck is 100% healthy, that the team will be more like 2014. That's probably just wishful thinking at this point though, and the whole coaching staff needs to be changed from the inside out.

[Colts_Fan12]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

We could even overcome those if we started quick like the Packers or Saints. We start off in such bad situations almost every game that those decisions end up killing us and it's always a fight to the finish, even against teams like the Jaguars. My only hope is if Luck is 100% healthy, that the team will be more like 2014. That's probably just wishful thinking at this point though, and the whole coaching staff needs to be changed from the inside out.

That's why I don't see how pagano has any fans how can you be pleased with slow starts every week and being in a hole????

[Steamboat_Shaun]

4 hours ago, Smonroe said:

I'm surprised no one has mention this (unless I missed it). I'm a Pagano supporter, one of the few.  Anyway, it's a divisive topic, but it is Colts related.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranking-every-nfl-head-coach-from-bill-belichick-to-the-class-of-2017/

 

I think Zimmer and Quinn could be ahead of him, but that's about it. But, I'm also of the belief that there's basically 2 tiers of coaches in the NFL:

 

Tier 1: Belichick, Reid, Carroll, Payton, Harbaugh, maybe Tomlin

Tier 2: Everyone else... basically just a hodgepodge of mediocre coaches and retreads

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

That's why I don't see how pagano has any fans how can you be pleased with slow starts every week and being in a hole????

Some casuals legit don't realize that we scored 3 or less points in 11 games last season. On this forum though, people should of realized this and started to realize the truth. You can't win when behind almost every game. You point this out and they'll say how we dominated the Jets and Vikings games (like it makes up for 11 other games and Pagano is somehow a genius for dominating 2 bad teams). Then we make boneheaded decisions most weeks (lots involving the other team winning in the last two minutes somehow), and it's thrown to the wasteside. As long as Pagano is a Colt, people will give him support on here. Ironically, when he gets fired or released, those same people will finally be "allowed" to say how they really feel without fear of "hating" on the Colts organization by bashing their coach.

[Shepman]

Well here's the thing, I think Pagano who is ultimately responsible for coaching decisions has made some really poor choices as crutial times.  He has excelled and failed at risks.  His overall philosophy is very inline with our new GM.  They talk about very similar things and to like it dislike one or the other is gonna be close to liking or disliking both.

[Colts_Fan12]

2 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I think Zimmer and Quinn could be ahead of him, but that's about it. But, I'm also of the belief that there's basically 2 tiers of coaches in the NFL:

 

Tier 1: Belichick, Reid, Carroll, Payton, Harbaugh, maybe Tomlin

Tier 2: Everyone else... basically just a hodgepodge of mediocre coaches and retreads

Hue Jackson Jack Del Rio and Pederson are better too I'd even question Gruden and Rivera 

[jameszeigler834]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Why ?  Because there isn't 11 coaches with a better winning percentage?

If he gets us back to the postseason this coming season then I will say he deserved to keep his job.

[Colts_Fan12]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Some casuals legit don't realize that we scored 3 or less points in 11 games last season. On this forum though, people should of realized this and started to realize the truth. You can't win when behind almost every game. You point this out and they'll say how we dominated the Jets and Vikings games (like it makes up for 11 other games and Pagano is somehow a genius for dominating 2 bad teams). Then we make boneheaded decisions most weeks (lots involving the other team winning in the last two minutes somehow), and it's thrown to the wasteside. As long as Pagano is a Colt, people will give him support on here. Ironically, when he gets fired or released, those same people will finally be "allowed" to say how they really feel without fear of "hating" on the Colts organization by bashing their coach.

 So true!! I'm glad there are other realists like me on here who actually want to just be great and will point out when someone sucks.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

5 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Hue Jackson Jack Del Rio and Pederson are better too I'd even question Gruden and Rivera 

 

Out of those guys, Rivera's the only one who's coaching resume really looks better than Pagano, and that's only because they went to the Super Bowl in '15. He's been on the hot seat pretty much every other season that he's been there.

[Jason_]

58 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Then turn around and get blown out by the rams he's a good coach 

 

Ah, so Pagano is the only coach to get blown out by a bad team.  Gotcha.

 

54 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

People will only turn on Pagano and figure out he's a bad coach when they are "allowed too" and he is fired or released, just like the same with Grigson. It's the same misguided loyalty where a portion of the fanbase wouldn't dare talk bad about someone as long as they are a Colt, and they throw facts out the window. There's no convincing them. The best we can hope for is Ballard improves the team enough to be contenders in 2018, because it certainly won't be this year with Pagano as Coach, unless he magically turns a 180.

 

That's not even remotely true.

 

48 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Another big problem with our fan base is they fear change. They are so scared to change coaches because "we could always get worse" so unless it's a Superbowl winning head coach they would rather keep chuck and his stupid actions. 

 

Again, that's not even remotely true.  That's just a reminder to people like you who want Pagano fired "no matter what" that there is absolutely no guarantee we get someone better.

[gspdx]

3 hours ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Next year, I want the Pagano haters to find me a better, available coach... just to see the results we get. If anyone says Marvin Lewis.... I'm just done.

Marvin Lewis.

So now what?

 

[gspdx]

I've said this before.  Chuck isn't a bad coach - but he isn't a great coach.  In my opinion of course. He seems to struggle with in game adjustments and in game decisions.  Can he improve this? Absolutely!  These are areas where a coach can grow and also surrounding yourself with people that excel at this.

[ColtsBlitz]

3 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Sean Payton, of course.  He has experience working with an elite QB, a great offense and porous defenses.

 

Pay no attention to his 7-9 record the last three years.  We'll think of better excuses.

I would be fine with Sean Payton. Good candidate. 

[ColtsBlitz]

7 minutes ago, gspdx said:

Marvin Lewis.

So now what?

 

People say he can replace Chuck, but Marvin Lewis is definitely not better. 0 playoff wins

[gspdx]

1 minute ago, ColtsBlitz said:

People say he can replace Chuck, but Marvin Lewis is definitely not better. 0 playoff wins

I know that.  But you said your done.  Just wondering if you meant it. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I have been saying this since I have Posted here (as Chuck as been a huge topic in here). Chuck isn't Bad or Below Average. I can buy Average, maybe Above Average as he isn't Good, Very Good, or Great either. He is in the middle of the pack IMO. 11 is probably too high but I can see 15th as a reasonable ranking for him. Say what you want about him but he did take a team to an AFC Title Game with an Average Defense at best and no Running game. That takes more than just Andrew Luck to go that deep in any Playoff run. You have to have some Good Coaching mixed in to do that. I think we would've been in the SB that season actually had it not been for us having to play the Patriots in Foxboro.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have been saying this since I have Posted here (as Chuck as been a huge topic in here). Chuck isn't Bad or Below Average. I can buy Average, maybe Above Average as he isn't Good, Very Good, or Great either. He is in the middle of the pack IMO. 11 is probably too high but I can see 15th as a reasonable ranking for him. Say what you want about him but he did take a team to an AFC Title Game with an Average Defense at best and no Running game. That takes more than just Andrew Luck to go that deep in any Playoff run. You have to have some Good Coaching mixed in to do that. I think we would've been in the SB that season actually had it not been for us having to play the Patriots in Foxboro.

I'll add to this, a lot of his problems were due to Grigson IMO.

[Colts_Fan12]

46 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Ah, so Pagano is the only coach to get blown out by a bad team.  Gotcha.

Every single year multiple times? My god you will defend him til your last breath.

[Smonroe]

26 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

I would be fine with Sean Payton. Good candidate. 

 

Yeah, his three years in a row of 7-9 is much better than Chuck's two 8-8's.  In some alternate universe.

 

Yes, he won a SB.  So did Brian Billick.  That chache only lasts for so long.

[cdgacoltsfan]

2 hours ago, MPStack said:

Represented the NFC in the 2015 SB. Next question?

Jim Caldwell did that too.

[cdgacoltsfan]

2 hours ago, MPStack said:

Represented the NFC in the 2015 SB. Next question?

LOL...huh?

[BR-549]

20 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Yeah, his three years in a row of 7-9 is much better than Chuck's two 8-8's.  In some alternate universe.

 

Yes, he won a SB.  So did Brian Billick.  That chache only lasts for so long.

And he out coached our beloved Colts coach to do it.... should never have happened.  But I didn't like Jim Caldwell anyway so it is easy to pick on him for losing that SB.

 

I like Chuck... I don't like the metaphors and other nonsense... uhh the polecat-punt-formation-little-league-crap and time clock mismanagement to name a few, but I think overall he is a decent coach who works hard and has room (and is willing) to improve.  

 

Like what was said before, probably not 11th, but somewhere near that rank.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Finball said:

I think Gase is way too high. First thing I'd change.

 

If we had fired Pagano a year ago,   Gase was the guy I wanted to replace him.

 

I think he's a talented coach....

 

[Smonroe]

Just now, BR-549 said:

And he out coached our beloved Colts coach to do it.... should never have happened.  But I didn't like Jim Caldwell anyway so it is easy to pick on him for losing that SB.

 

I like Chuck... I don't like the metaphors and other nonsense... uhh the polecat-punt-formation-little-league-crap and time clock mismanagement to name a few, but I think overall he is a decent coach who works hard and has room (and is willing) to improve.  

 

Like what was said before, probably not 11th, but somewhere near that rank.

 

Yeah, ranking is subjective.  I basically feel the same as you.  I met Chuck and had a real conversation with him.  He's exactly like that in private (with the cliché's, etc.)  Players love him, which does not make him a great coach.  But it certainly does help.

[NewColtsFan]

 

A year ago,  after the first 8-8 season,  the anti-Pagano crowd was convinced that if Irsay fired him,  Pagano would never be a HC again.     Especially not after the spectacular screw up on the fake-punt against New England.   

 

People here thought he'd be lucky to be a DC again and might have to settle for being a position coach.

 

Well....  a few days after the season ended,  NFL.com did a story that said other owners alerted Irsay....    fire Pagano and he'll be hired by some team within a week.      The rest of the NFL thinks he's a pretty decent coach even if many fans here don't.

 

At his best I think he's around 12 or 13....    at his worst,  I think he's around 20 or 21....

 

In other words,  not top-10 and not bottom-10.       Here's in the middle depending on the game and opponent.   

 

I don't think he's a Super Bowl winning coach,  but I think he's a good coach.    And someday,  I expect Ballard to try and hire someone better.       I just don't know when that will be.....

 

 

[ColtsBlitz]

34 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Yeah, his three years in a row of 7-9 is much better than Chuck's two 8-8's.  In some alternate universe.

 

Yes, he won a SB.  So did Brian Billick.  That chache only lasts for so long.

Then my original point still stands. Find a better coach than Pagano. Pagano has a clear connection with the players on the team. I don't think our next coach will be as good as Chuck was. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

A year ago,  after the first 8-8 season,  the anti-Pagano crowd was convinced that if Irsay fired him,  Pagano would never be a HC again.     Especially not after the spectacular screw up on the fake-punt against New England.   

 

People here thought he'd be lucky to be a DC again and might have to settle for being a position coach.

 

Well....  a few days after the season ended,  NFL.com did a story that said other owners alerted Irsay....    fire Pagano and he'll be hired by some team within a week.      The rest of the NFL thinks he's a pretty decent coach even if many fans here don't.

 

At his best I think he's around 12 or 13....    at his worst,  I think he's around 20 or 21....

 

In other words,  not top-10 and not bottom-10.       Here's in the middle depending on the game and opponent.   

 

I don't think he's a Super Bowl winning coach,  but I think he's a good coach.    And someday,  I expect Ballard to try and hire someone better.       I just don't know when that will be.....

 

 

I agree I have him in the middle, he isn't Great but he isn't Bad either.

[NewColtsFan]

 

A reminder......

 

This is the opinion of one guy....   Pete Prisco, who works for CBS Sports.

 

This is not a poll of anyone in the NFL....       just one person's opinion.

 

Agree, or disagree,   I wouldn't read too much into it.....

 

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Every single year multiple times? My god you will defend him til your last breath.

from being as bad as you try to make him out to be? Yes, yes I will. 

 

Anyone who's been paying attention to the colts since he and Grigson arrived know that there has been a lot of speculation about how much control Pagano really had and how much influence was asserted by Grigson. 

 

And before you point to last year and say "well they'd worked out those issues and the team still underperformed."  Well, yes they did, but look at the injuries that were sustained.  And yes I know the old saying that "injuries are never an excuse" and that sounds all well and good, but real life simply isn't that black and white.  Two different teams each facing injuries to 10 players does not make the difficulties they will face equal. 

 

[throwing BBZ]

4 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Why ?  Because there isn't 11 coaches with a better winning percentage?

 

 So Lame!

 And the answer is for those who watch the Colts week in and week out, it has been Great for his winning %
to be in the Putrid South. We have all witnessed his total coaching mediocrity.
 Now if you get past the coaching thing and wish to give the man kudos for his guys not quitting week in and week out, agreement should be broad. The Coach deserves humongous credit for that IMO.
 And Chuck scores very high as a leader/motivator. Of course he came into a Winning organization.
   He will learn a lot and benefit greatly from Ballard. Better players and Chuck firing them up can be very good.

 

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

They are not very good...... Why do you think we got the saying paganoism? Lol

 

um, because of his coachspeak.  has literally nothing to do with his gameplanning, adjustments or time management.

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Hue Jackson Jack Del Rio and Pederson are better too I'd even question Gruden and Rivera 

 

I wouldn't claim any of them to be better.  I'd possibly put Del Rio at about the same level but he should have (imo) done much better in Jacksonville with some of the rosters he had.  Jackson has had 2 seasons as a HC and neither were anything to write home about.  Pederson has had year so far which exceeded expectations in Philly and their future looks bright as of now, but Pagano had a far better first year.  Let's see how Pederson does for the next couple before crowning him anything.