Eric Galko: At least 2 teams view Charles Harris as top-10 talent

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Regarding these two, i think Werner taught me what explosive was not, years down the road. It sucks he was a guinea pig for me on a Colts team, but, he is now a solid example I look to compare against, across any position really (not that i compare burst of DE with that of WR, but just what "burst" looks like).

 

Re #2 - you mentioned scheme differences and I think bend around the corner is important across both, but I think inabilityto bend as a 4-3 edge becomes exploited if transitioned 3-4 edge guy, especially in coverage. Its one of those traits that scheme ttanslations matter more than others IMO.

 

Yup, you have to distinguish between explosiveness and anticipation. Sometimes they go hand in hand. Sometimes one is disguised as the other. It's easy to be fooled, but context matters.

 

Bend around the corner is a trait, IMO. Certain measurements speak to it, and it's also visible on tape. If an edge rusher is stiff and slow to change the direction, I don't know if it matters whether he plays 3-4 OLB or 4-3 end, he's going to struggle to beat blockers. Maybe a great spin move will help him to make up for it (and Harris has a pretty good spin move, btw), but for the most part, it's a troubling deficiency for an edge rusher.

 

Bend is different from ability to move in space, but they can both be measured somewhat by certain timed agility drills. A 3-4 OLB is more likely to be used in space, so it's a factor, but I think it's overblown for a potential pass rusher who is going to be coming toward the line of scrimmage 80%+ of the time. 

 

Overall, just like with every other aspect of judging players, I'd rather have the tape tell me something the drills/times don't, than the other way around. But if a scout thinks a guy is explosive but he has an awful Combine, it's time to get back to the tape and see if you missed something. I think that's when you look at a player the most critically, and make sure you understand what you're seeing. Werner is a great example of that. 

[OffensivelyPC]

17 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yup, you have to distinguish between explosiveness and anticipation. Sometimes they go hand in hand. Sometimes one is disguised as the other. It's easy to be fooled, but context matters.

 

Bend around the corner is a trait, IMO. Certain measurements speak to it, and it's also visible on tape. If an edge rusher is stiff and slow to change the direction, I don't know if it matters whether he plays 3-4 OLB or 4-3 end, he's going to struggle to beat blockers. Maybe a great spin move will help him to make up for it (and Harris has a pretty good spin move, btw), but for the most part, it's a troubling deficiency for an edge rusher.

 

Bend is different from ability to move in space, but they can both be measured somewhat by certain timed agility drills. A 3-4 OLB is more likely to be used in space, so it's a factor, but I think it's overblown for a potential pass rusher who is going to be coming toward the line of scrimmage 80%+ of the time. 

 

Overall, just like with every other aspect of judging players, I'd rather have the tape tell me something the drills/times don't, than the other way around. But if a scout thinks a guy is explosive but he has an awful Combine, it's time to get back to the tape and see if you missed something. I think that's when you look at a player the most critically, and make sure you understand what you're seeing. Werner is a great example of that. 

Yeah, what you are saying, i think we agree on parts. Im still learning edge guys and their traits. Bend isnt end all, no disagreement there.  but i always thought it was an indicator of lateral movement. Maybe im confusing lateral explosiveness/agility with lateral strength. Curious on your take there.

 

Just FYI - Forget the combine, im talking tape for now. I think tape should be the vast majority of the grade. Combine IS important, but i agree with you that its only informative - such that your assessment is in line with his times and if its not, whatd we miss.