Chester rogers puts the moves on Bouye

[CR91]

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2017/4/3/15158486/chester-rogers-colts-breakout-candidate-in-2017

 

Video is a little down

[Coltsfan1953]

Nice article. I hope he is right about Mr. Rogers and that he starts to rule the neighborhood.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

If old Chester can "juke" Bouye like that...I am glad Indy didn't overpay for him.

[OLD FAN MAN]

i am high on chester, i think he can be better than average

[TKnight24]

10 hours ago, Coltsfan1953 said:

Nice article. I hope he is right about Mr. Rogers and that he starts to rule the neighborhood.

What you did there........ I see it

[ColtsBlueFL]

17 hours ago, Coltsfan1953 said:

Nice article. I hope he is right about Mr. Rogers and that he starts to rule the neighborhood.

 

 

[lollygagger8]

That crossing pattern at around :38 makes me ill.......it's ridiculous how long that play takes to develop. C'mon Chud. 

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2017/4/3/15158486/chester-rogers-colts-breakout-candidate-in-2017

[pgt_rob]

Chester is underrated for sure. We need to give him some more playing time. I think he can be something special.

[ColtsBlueFL]

5 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

That crossing pattern at around :38 makes me ill.......it's ridiculous how long that play takes to develop. C'mon Chud. 

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2017/4/3/15158486/chester-rogers-colts-breakout-candidate-in-2017

 

???

 

First, it appears to me that Rogers ran a Fade (a 9 route).  This is a staple 'chunk yardage' play in the Coryell vertical passing attack.  Luck lines up in shotgun 5 yards behind center, takes a 5 step drop. It appear T.Y. runs a lazy medium dig (kind of like a slant then dig.  Maybe I'll call it a slig) while the slot receiver (Moncrief?) runs a deep dig.  Rogers defender had inside leverage, forcing Rogers outside.  9 route is made for that-

 

Especially if the defender is breaking off down the field expecting the receiver to go to a post route (maybe they even ran a post off that formation earlier in the game).  The defender does break off, Rogers moves back outside and collects the pass. Yes, Luck had to take more time because Rogers did not have separation.  He even had to step up in the pocket four yards before delivering the throw to Rogers. Guaranteed if he had a step on the CB Luck would have let it go earlier and a bit higher to drop in over the defender.  But he had to wait then throw outside shoulder in case Rogers little post hitch move didn't create separation.  But it did, and early enough for Rogers to adjust to the ball for an uncontested completion. However, it wasn't totally n stride anymore so the defender was able to recover and make the TD saving tackle at the 1 yard line.

 

Blue open targets, Red, primary and intended receiver.--

 

 

 

The shotgun, five step drop off that,  good pass blocking designed to allow a certain period of time for the QB to survey, Also, receiver separation is needed for that play. All of them together.  It's called execution.  A breakdown in any of those areas can cause the play to fail.  Fortunately, there was just enough execution for this play to succeed.  OTOH, even though both T.Y. and Moncrief end up double covered, there were earlier 'open windows' to hit either of them too, IMO.

[lollygagger8]

16 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

???

 

First, it appears to me that Rogers ran a Fade (a 9 route).  This is a staple 'chunk yardage' play in the Coryell vertical passing attack.  Luck lines up in shotgun 5 yards behind center, takes a 5 step drop. It appear T.Y. runs a lazy medium dig (kind of like a slant then dig.  Maybe I'll call it a slig) while the slot receiver (Moncrief?) runs a deep dig.  Rogers defender had inside leverage, forcing Rogers outside.  9 route is made for that-

 

Especially if the defender is breaking off down the field expecting the receiver to go to a post route (maybe they even ran a post off that formation earlier in the game).  The defender does break off, Rogers moves back outside and collects the pass. Yes, Luck had to take more time because Rogers did not have separation.  He even had to step up in the pocket four yards before delivering the throw to Rogers. Guaranteed if he had a step on the CB Luck would have let it go earlier and a bit higher to drop in over the defender.  But he had to wait then throw outside shoulder in case Rogers little post hitch move didn't create separation.  But it did, and early enough for Rogers to adjust to the ball for an uncontested completion. However, it wasn't totally n stride anymore so the defender was able to recover and make the TD saving tackle at the 1 yard line.

 

Blue open targets, Red, primary and intended receiver.--

 

 

 

The shotgun, five step drop off that,  good pass blocking designed to allow a certain period of time for the QB to survey, Also, receiver separation is needed for that play. All of them together.  It's called execution.  A breakdown in any of those areas can cause the play to fail.  Fortunately, there was just enough execution for this play to succeed.  OTOH, even though both T.Y. and Moncrief end up double covered, there were earlier 'open windows' to hit either of them too, IMO.

 

Look how close the two receivers are to each other in the middle of the field....no separation. They bracket themselves in. The RB (dumpoff) still had to block for way too long, and still wouldn't have gotten very far if Luck did throw to him. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Rogers, but Rogers is lucky the CB broke inside and he stayed to the outside. 

 

I get the Coryell offense is a chunk play offense. I just wish there were shorter passes and more separation routes to spread the field more. 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Look how close the two receivers are to each other in the middle of the field....no separation. They bracket themselves in. The RB (dumpoff) still had to block for way too long, and still wouldn't have gotten very far if Luck did throw to him. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Rogers, but Rogers is lucky the CB broke inside and he stayed to the outside. 

 

I get the Coryell offense is a chunk play offense. I just wish there were shorter passes and more separation routes to spread the field more. 

 

 

T.Y. and (I beleive Moncrief) in the middle both ran what I call lazy digs (rounded the cut).  I think one was supposed to be medium depth (T.Y.), and the other a deeper 'dig'  But they almost turned out the same from opposite ends.  It was zone cover under and both came receivers came open before they 'met in the middle' and crossed paths.  It was neither here nor there, Luck locked onto the primary target in single coverage, and was lucky the defender broke off thinking it was a post, not a fade.

[zibby43]

Stat that surprised me.

 

Dorsett has only 3 drops on 98 targets in two seasons.

 

That's not bad.  At all.

[RockThatBlue]

On 4/4/2017 at 2:10 PM, Coltsfan1953 said:

Nice article. I hope he is right about Mr. Rogers and that he starts to rule the neighborhood.

Well played.

[ColtsBlueFL]

6 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Look how close the two receivers are to each other in the middle of the field....no separation. They bracket themselves in. The RB (dumpoff) still had to block for way too long, and still wouldn't have gotten very far if Luck did throw to him. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Rogers, but Rogers is lucky the CB broke inside and he stayed to the outside. 

 

I get the Coryell offense is a chunk play offense. I just wish there were shorter passes and more separation routes to spread the field more. 

 

 

I wish we had a running game so respectable that Luck could do this play from under center on play action with a seven step drop instead of shotgun with a 5 step drop, and still buying time stepping back up.

[CR91]

6 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I wish we had a running game so respectable that Luck could do this play from under center on play action with a seven step drop instead of shotgun with a 5 step drop, and still buying time stepping back up.

 

DALVIN COOK! DALVIN COOK!

[BProland85]

19 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

DALVIN COOK! DALVIN COOK!

 

Would rather have Kamara in the 2nd. 

[CR91]

15 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

Would rather have Kamara in the 2nd. 

 

Let's not derail the thread

[lollygagger8]

10 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I wish we had a running game so respectable that Luck could do this play from under center on play action with a seven step drop instead of shotgun with a 5 step drop, and still buying time stepping back up.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

16 hours ago, zibby43 said:

Stat that surprised me.

 

Dorsett has only 3 drops on 98 targets in two seasons.

 

That's not bad.  At all.

 

Yeah, the narrative that he can't catch is way overblown. The main problem is that the drops occurred in such a big game, at critical moments, vs Houston.

[Coltfreak]

Am I the only one that watches this and sees a lot of underneath stuff that Luck either doesn't see or doesn't look for?  Everything is deep ball with this offense and that is why I dislike Chud as OC 

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, Coltfreak said:

Am I the only one that watches this and sees a lot of underneath stuff that Luck either doesn't see or doesn't look for?  Everything is deep ball with this offense and that is why I dislike Chud as OC 

 

Everything?  And Luck has to throw it to the deep guy, no matter what the other receivers do?

 

Umm, I don't think so.  Here's a couple plays from tthe Air Coryell playbook run by the Ravens. 

 

http://baltimoresportsandlife.com/22-look-air-coryell/

 

Notice the Primary on both of these is not the deepest receiver. Right?  There are plenty of others, too.  But there are defenders out there.  Sometimes the diagnose your play and line up to thwart it. 

 

Now I don't know who Lucks primary target was supposed to be on that play at 0:38 in on the tape.  It is apparent the D was in a 4 2 5 Nickel, with 3 down linemen in 3 pt, stance, the edge standing up, 3 DB's up on each receiver, giving man/press look.  T.Y. is the X receiver (bottom) and Rogers is the Z receiver (Flanker, at the top).  Moncrief (or Dorsett, can't read the number) is in the slot. Just before the snap ,the X and slot receivers defenders drop off into zone, while the Z (Rogers) man is playing man coverage.  The safeties come up into the middle of the field behind the zone defenders.  Rogers is one on one.  Luck might have seen the safeties coming up, and knows that Rogers is 1 on 1.  When that situation occurs, you must beat your man!  The QB is likely to seek you out and see if you got separation. Rogers didn't have it and I am surprised Luck threw it to him anyway.  Rogers defender broke off right after Luck let go of the pass, probably thinking Rogers was running a post, but Rogers (and Luck) continued with the Fade, thus the long reception.

 

I am sure Luck has the green light to run through progressions and hit TY or Moncrief instead. He didn't, and this time it worked.  Other times...not so good. Players that fail to win their matchup can make a good play look really bad. 

 

Are you a fan of dink and dunk, Check downs and swing passes to the RB (running game via pass). 15 play drives and milking tons off the clock?

 

 

[Coltfreak]

9 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Everything?  And Luck has to throw it to the deep guy, no matter what the other receivers do?

 

Umm, I don't think so.  Here's a couple plays from tthe Air Coryell playbook run by the Ravens. 

 

http://baltimoresportsandlife.com/22-look-air-coryell/

 

Notice the Primary on both of these is not the deepest receiver. Right?  There are plenty of others, too.  But there are defenders out there.  Sometimes the diagnose your play and line up to thwart it. 

 

Now I don't know who Lucks primary target was supposed to be on that play at 0:38 in on the tape.  It is apparent the D was in a 4 2 5 Nickel, with 3 down linemen in 3 pt, stance, the edge standing up, 3 DB's up on each receiver, giving man/press look.  T.Y. is the X receiver (bottom) and Rogers is the Z receiver (Flanker, at the top).  Moncrief (or Dorsett, can't read the number) is in the slot. Just before the snap ,the X and slot receivers defenders drop off into zone, while the Z (Rogers) man is playing man coverage.  The safeties come up into the middle of the field behind the zone defenders.  Rogers is one on one.  Luck might have seen the safeties coming up, and knows that Rogers is 1 on 1.  When that situation occurs, you must beat your man!  The QB is likely to seek you out and see if you got separation. Rogers didn't have it and I am surprised Luck threw it to him anyway.  Rogers defender broke off right after Luck let go of the pass, probably thinking Rogers was running a post, but Rogers (and Luck) continued with the Fade, thus the long reception.

 

I am sure Luck has the green light to run through progressions and hit TY or Moncrief instead. He didn't, and this time it worked.  Other times...not so good. Players that fail to win their matchup can make a good play look really bad. 

 

Are you a fan of dink and dunk, Check downs and swing passes to the RB (running game via pass). 15 play drives and milking tons off the clock?

 

 

yes I am.  This Oline isnt established enough to be able to protect for long periods of time     Short passing would be much better with this current line

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

yes I am.  This Oline isnt established enough to be able to protect for long periods of time     Short passing would be much better with this current line

 

That's fine, many other are as well.  I'm really not against it myself as long as the OC doesn't turn an elite quarterback into Alex Smith 2.0 (who is really underrated, I feel, because he does do West Coast dink and dunk without turning it over so well). and your D must not let the other team score fast and create a huge lead (deficit) early.

 

For the bolded part, I'm inclined to agree, for now. But the other parts of the equation are that the running game hasn't been respectable enough to be able to run good pass plays from under center in Play Action fashion. That's where huge success in the passing game lies. The other part is, I really get a feeling Luck so believes in his arm/ability and the abilities of his receivers, that he tends to try to hold on to get the big play longer than he should (like big Ben Roethlisberger) rather than move on to progression #2 and #3 targets quickly.  Too many times I've heard from peeps at games or watching coaches tape (all 22) that many receivers are open, but Luck didn't look their way, or least not soon enough.  But as he continues to develop, those will be less, and his Int rate should drop commiserate. I also feel there is talent on the O line (maybe needs one more good piece) but if they don' stay healthy and play together for long stretches, we could have 3 first rounders on the line and still have issues if they don't all stay on the field as a unit together.

[Coltfreak]

2 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

That's fine, many other are as well.  I'm really not against it myself as long as the OC doesn't turn an elite quarterback into Alex Smith 2.0 (who is really underrated, I feel, because he does do West Coast dink and dunk without turning it over so well). and your D must not let the other team score fast and create a huge lead (deficit) early.

 

For the bolded part, I'm inclined to agree, for now. But the other parts of the equation are that the running game hasn't been respectable enough to be able to run good pass plays from under center in Play Action fashion. That's where huge success in the passing game lies. The other part is, I really get a feeling Luck so believes in his arm/ability and the abilities of his receivers, that he tends to try to hold on to get the big play longer than he should (like big Ben Roethlisberger) rather than move on to progression #2 and #3 targets quickly.  Too many times I've heard from peeps at games or watching coaches tape (all 22) that many receivers are open, but Luck didn't look their way, or least not soon enough.  But as he continues to develop, those will be less, and his Int rate should drop commiserate. I also feel there is talent on the O line (maybe needs one more good piece) but if they don' stay healthy and play together for long stretches, we could have 3 first rounders on the line and still have issues if they don't all stay on the field as a unit together.

Good post