More Important - Edge Rusher or CB?

[Smonroe]

Assuming there's a prime edge rusher and a top CB available at our pick - which position do you think is more important?

 

Personally, I always thought you can't have enough edge rushers, but I'm not convinced that's a more important position anymore.

 

To be short, you can neutralize an edge rusher's effectiveness with the quick pass game, as well as chip him, etc.  But you can't really account for a good CB other than running pick plays.  Obviously, you can't leave them out there forever but I think we'd get more cover sacks in the long run.

 

So, IMO I'm hoping one of the top CBs is there and we snatch him up.   Thoughts?

[Colt Overseas]

I think Pre-FA I would have had a pass rusher, as the draft is deep in CB's.  Then Ballard signed 3 OLB's so I think right now, it would be more beneficial for the Colts to find a top CB than Edge Rusher.

 

The only thing is, if Lattimore is already taken, is there a CB worth his value to be picked at #15? There's certainly a lot between 20-50.

[Smonroe]

3 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

I think Pre-FA I would have had a pass rusher, as the draft is deep in CB's.  Then Ballard signed 3 OLB's so I think right now, it would be more beneficial for the Colts to find a top CB than Edge Rusher.

 

The only thing is, if Lattimore is already taken, is there a CB worth his value to be picked at #15? There's certainly a lot between 20-50.

 

If they really like Humphrey, he'd be a possibility.  I may be looking through my Buckeye glasses, but I think Conley is as good as him.

 

If you can believe most of the mocks, our choices at Edge may be Barnett, Tak, or Harris. 

 

Tough choice.

[esmort]

Edge rusher... Corners can't cover forever,  and even back up QBs are going to carve up a defense if given time. Quick pass/dink & dunk plays are going to negate some of the effectiveness of CBs also; and being forced to use a TE or RB to double an edge rusher also takes away one passing option. You also have to factor in the mental effect/advantage that constantly being hit and hurried has on a QB. 

[BProland85]

Would rather get the prime edge rusher if Ballard thinks he'll be a game changing double digit sack player. This CB class is so deep you can find quality starters in rounds 2-4.

 

I do like Derek Rivers early round 3 though if Ballard went CB or ILB early.

[BProland85]

27 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

I think Pre-FA I would have had a pass rusher, as the draft is deep in CB's.  Then Ballard signed 3 OLB's so I think right now, it would be more beneficial for the Colts to find a top CB than Edge Rusher.

 

The only thing is, if Lattimore is already taken, is there a CB worth his value to be picked at #15? There's certainly a lot between 20-50.

 

That's why I think there is more value in taking a pass rusher or ILB round 1 over CB. Round 2-4 you can find quality CBs.

 

Sidney Jones was my guy round 1 until he was injured. I thought Jones was the safest and closest thing to a shutdown corner outside of Lattimore.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

Assuming there's a prime edge rusher and a top CB available at our pick - which position do you think is more important?

 

Personally, I always thought you can't have enough edge rushers, but I'm not convinced that's a more important position anymore.

 

To be short, you can neutralize an edge rusher's effectiveness with the quick pass game, as well as chip him, etc.  But you can't really account for a good CB other than running pick plays.  Obviously, you can't leave them out there forever but I think we'd get more cover sacks in the long run.

 

So, IMO I'm hoping one of the top CBs is there and we snatch him up.   Thoughts?

 

I'd love to have an elite edge rusher that could contribute right away, but at 15 I don't know that one will be there. And we literally have nothing at the CB2 spot right now. Need-wise, I think CB is higher at this point.

[Smonroe]

7 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I'd love to have an elite edge rusher that could contribute right away, but at 15 I don't know that one will be there. And we literally have nothing at the CB2 spot right now. Need-wise, I think CB is higher at this point.

 

That's my logic too.  "Elite" is the key word, can we believe that any of the guys available when we pick are going to be really as effective as we want?  If we're getting Von Miller, then it's a no brainer.  If we're getting Vernon Gholtson...

[UKColt13]

Right now, corner.

 

Because we have one that is a capable starter.

 

They might not be all-pros but we at least have 2 capable starters at OLB.

 

I'd like to double dip early at CB. 1st and 3rd or 2nd and 3rd.

[BOTT]

Edge rusher and it's not even close.  Unless it's a shutdown corner, but I have only seen 3 of those in my life.

[Oldschoolcolt19]

Pass rush. A strong pass rusher can create much more havoc on a pass play as well as make an ordinary corner look like an all pro. CB has a pretty high learning curve at the pro level too

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Simon was a lowkey great signing. Give me Gareon the Con man Conley at 15. TJ Watt in the 2nd. 

[life long]

17 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Simon was a lowkey great signing. Give me Gareon the Con man Conley at 15. TJ Watt in the 2nd. 

I personally doubt TJ makes it that long. I have seen him mocked late first round. If he does fall in our lap 2nd round, I would love the pick up. 

 

 

 

Also, take BPA CB!!!

[Superman]

As far as drafting, I want the player I have rated higher. If I think one player has more elite traits, or has a better chance of being a perennial Pro Bowl / All Pro player, etc., then that's the player I'm drafting. And that's because I believe that the draft should be used to acquire talent, not to manage your roster. Needs-based drafting is a bad idea.

 

As for which position do I think is more important to a good defense, I'd say edge rusher, for sure. In general, the closer to the ball, the better. An edge rusher influences more plays than a corner, he stresses protections, dictates offensive alignments, sometimes takes receiving options off the table (when TEs and backs stay in to block), and so on. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

 

That's my logic too.  "Elite" is the key word, can we believe that any of the guys available when we pick are going to be really as effective as we want?  If we're getting Von Miller, then it's a no brainer.  If we're getting Vernon Gholtson...

 

Even Von took a few seasons to really emerge as an elite pass rusher. Drafting one doesn't necessarily immediately help our pass rush need in the short term.

[D-lineman]

Easy one! Edge rusher all day. An effective pass rush can make a mediocre secondary look good. Opposite is not true 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

As far as drafting, I want the player I have rated higher. If I think one player has more elite traits, or has a better chance of being a perennial Pro Bowl / All Pro player, etc., then that's the player I'm drafting. And that's because I believe that the draft should be used to acquire talent, not to manage your roster. Needs-based drafting is a bad idea.

 

As for which position do I think is more important to a good defense, I'd say edge rusher, for sure. In general, the closer to the ball, the better. An edge rusher influences more plays than a corner, he stresses protections, dictates offensive alignments, sometimes takes receiving options off the table (when TEs and backs stay in to block), and so on. 

I agree. In those early rounds I look for "special" players. I want ones that could be stars or have star traits/talents. When I get to the middle rounds like 4 and beyond I am ok with needs based drafting...stock piling players at positions of need to hope to groom or "hit" on to help your team. I'm not saying you can't find special in those positions but the clearly "special" players are gone and your then left with question marks. I definitely prefer to take a clearly more talented player but if the grading is pretty close...even if its a bit less on a position of need guy in the middle to late rounds I know I have to build depth and do some "roster building". I agree the trenches is where the game is won/loss. If you dominate the line of scrimmage you can definitely limit what the offense can do and cover up deficiencies in the secondary. Not the opposite though (well not consistently). Even the best corners can't cover forever and if your line is not up to the task you will see teams just run the ball on you and wear your defense out.

 

I personally don't mind what we do in the first 3 rounds...I just want impact players. Those 4th rd picks...I fully expect us to draft depth at positions of needs....whether that's CB,LB, RB, or OL whatever the case may be after we have added those first 3 picks. If say we haven't taken a corner in the first 3 rounds based on bpa at the time of those picks or we still have need at another position then I think then you start looking at your board a little differently. You don't ignore your grading but you certainly will give preference to a position of need that is close to the top left in your evaluation. At that point in the draft your not looking for stars (I mean you want them but your definitely not expecting them) so now your looking at who can first and foremost make your team and help your team the most....while still looking at the big picture.

[BProland85]

57 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Simon was a lowkey great signing. Give me Gareon the Con man Conley at 15. TJ Watt in the 2nd. 

 

If Indy stays put, give me ILB Haason Reddick round 1, CB Chidobe Awuzie round 2, and OLB Derek Rivers round 3.

 

Ballard wants speed and the ability to cover the field. Reddick can definitely do that. Awuzie gives Indy a corner that has the ability to play both outside and in the slot. Rivers gives Ballard his future pass rusher that can rotate immediately with Sheard and Simon.

[dodsworth]

Gotta be able to put pressure on the QB in the NFL so edge rusher

Is my pick. Build the team by starting from the inside and working

outward. Once the D line and backing corp is rock solid then focus 

on the defensive backfield. 

[LockeDown]

Stopping 3rd downs is key in this league.  Though some are short yardage, many are not, so an offense's QB is looking at a pass play and that's when a team with good edge rushers really disruput an offense.  Sacks for loss, strip sacks, no 3rd downs, sack QB out of field goal range (Super Bowl), etc....I would hate to know the Colts stats in that dept the last 2 years, but I can sure remember Dwight and Robert doing that very thing in our heyday.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 hour ago, BProland85 said:

 

If Indy stays put, give me ILB Haason Reddick round 1, CB Chidobe Awuzie round 2, and OLB Derek Rivers round 3.

 

Ballard wants speed and the ability to cover the field. Reddick can definitely do that. Awuzie gives Indy a corner that has the ability to play both outside and in the slot. Rivers gives Ballard his future pass rusher that can rotate immediately with Sheard and Simon.

That would be an awesome 3 rounds. 

[BOTT]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Even Von took a few seasons to really emerge as an elite pass rusher. Drafting one doesn't necessarily immediately help our pass rush need in the short term.

Miller had 30 sacks in his first two season

[Smonroe]

6 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Miller had 30 sacks in his first two season

 

So let's put the question this way - you can draft a player that will turn into Von Miller or Derelle  Revis in their prime.  (Or Deon if you prefer).  

 

One guy can make a QBs life miserable.  The other guy clears half the field for your D.  

[BOTT]

20 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

So let's put the question this way - you can draft a player that will turn into Von Miller or Derelle  Revis in their prime.  (Or Deon if you prefer).  

 

One guy can make a QBs life miserable.  The other guy clears half the field for your D.  

Miller

[akcolt]

56 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

So let's put the question this way - you can draft a player that will turn into Von Miller or Derelle  Revis in their prime.  (Or Deon if you prefer).  

 

One guy can make a QBs life miserable.  The other guy clears half the field for your D.  

Primetime could not only shut down half the field. He could change a game by putting the ball in the end zone too. He had 16 return td's in his career 

[OLD FAN MAN]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

As far as drafting, I want the player I have rated higher. If I think one player has more elite traits, or has a better chance of being a perennial Pro Bowl / All Pro player, etc., then that's the player I'm drafting. And that's because I believe that the draft should be used to acquire talent, not to manage your roster. Needs-based drafting is a bad idea.

 

As for which position do I think is more important to a good defense, I'd say edge rusher, for sure. In general, the closer to the ball, the better. An edge rusher influences more plays than a corner, he stresses protections, dictates offensive alignments, sometimes takes receiving options off the table (when TEs and backs stay in to block), and so on. 

i agree , most draft picks are for the next season or two not this season, draft for the future, free agents are for this season.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

As far as drafting, I want the player I have rated higher. If I think one player has more elite traits, or has a better chance of being a perennial Pro Bowl / All Pro player, etc., then that's the player I'm drafting. And that's because I believe that the draft should be used to acquire talent, not to manage your roster. Needs-based drafting is a bad idea.

 

As for which position do I think is more important to a good defense, I'd say edge rusher, for sure. In general, the closer to the ball, the better. An edge rusher influences more plays than a corner, he stresses protections, dictates offensive alignments, sometimes takes receiving options off the table (when TEs and backs stay in to block), and so on. 

This is correct and accurate!!

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 hours ago, BOTT said:

Miller had 30 sacks in his first two season

 

Ok, fair enough, but he was drafted 2nd overall, not 15th. If the Colts had the 1st overall pick, they'd HAVE to take Garrett. But at 15, with all of the truly elite edge talent likely off the board, taking a corner might actually provide more value. Just depends on how picks 1-14 shake out.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

5 hours ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Simon was a lowkey great signing. Give me Gareon the Con man Conley at 15. TJ Watt in the 2nd. 

 

Is he a good press-man coverage guy in your opinion? I know that's what Pagano wants out of his CBs, but I read today that it's actually one of Conway's weaknesses. I wouldn't know, I watched his YouTube vid but it was a highlight reel, not a full breakdown.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

41 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Is he a good press-man coverage guy in your opinion? I know that's what Pagano wants out of his CBs, but I read today that it's actually one of Conway's weaknesses. I wouldn't know, I watched his YouTube vid but it was a highlight reel, not a full breakdown.

He needs to use his hands when he presses. That's literally his only weakness. Imo. And that's something that can easily be coached. I think he's already a good man corner, just needs to use his hands at the LOS better. 

[GoBlue12]

We need to prioritize both positions. I'd go for a guy who is the least likely to bust at either position. After the top 3 edge rushers all have potentially fatal flaws. I hope our scouts do a great job and we avoid the Werners and D'Jouns.

[BOTT]

8 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Ok, fair enough, but he was drafted 2nd overall, not 15th. If the Colts had the 1st overall pick, they'd HAVE to take Garrett. But at 15, with all of the truly elite edge talent likely off the board, taking a corner might actually provide more value. Just depends on how picks 1-14 shake out.

I don't disagree with that.  I'm for taking the best defensive player available.

[Finball]

All things equal, edge rusher.

[Chrisaaron1023]

I feel like you NEED two good pass rushers to make it worthwhile. Almost the same for corner, you need two. We have one so I think number two there is more attainable, making that more priority.

[DougDew]

If we intend on picking either/or at 15, I suggest we pick the player who is the most sure thing to be a worthy NFL starter.  Both positions of EDGE and CB can be risky, unlike, say, a blue chip C, so which ever player is less likely to result in a wasted pick would be my preference.

[COLTS449]

EDGE most definitely, as one of Takk, Harris, Charlton will be there. We HAVE to draft a couple double digit sack freak EDGE rushers. This is a deep class for CB's. Deeper than EDGE, so we can get a 1st round caliber corner in the 2nd no doubt. Or IMO the 3rd. Then after the incident that will cause him to fall, grab Lewis assuming he's there in the 4th. Then we're set. 2 EDGE rushers, 2 Corners early. But we gotta take Takk or Harris RD1. Maybe Tim Williams, but I think he'll be there in RD2, so IDK.

[Colt Cola]

Premier Edge Rushers can make a secondary look better than what it actually is by getting constant pressure on the QB. I saw first hand what Bosa meant for the Chargers D last year, and it helped make Casey Hayward look like an All-Pro. I also think that this draft is way deeper at CB than DE. San Diego State has a guy, Damontae Kazee that is projected in rounds from 4-7, but I've watched him for 3 years out here in SD, and he is a playmaker. Definitely think we wouldn't be upset if we snagged him around round 5.