What would you want from Denver to switch picks?

[WarGhost21]

25 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Our 15th pick is worth way more than their 82nd and 101st pick. It's going to take their 1st and first 3rd rd to be even. 

I believe he meant both the thirds and their first

[Yoshinator]

26 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Our 15th pick is worth way more than their 82nd and 101st pick. It's going to take their 1st and first 3rd rd to be even. 

He means our 1st (15 overall) for their 1st (20 overall) and 82nd and 101st pick (both thirds). It's just common to say for both thirds since the 1st is a given here.

[krunk]

10 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

I agree..but again...Christian Mccaffrey is a hybrid..not an RB...

He wouldn't take Frank Gore's place..he would play on 3rd down..in the slot next to TY and run back kicks

I don't think people give Mccaffrey enough credit.    I think after a while he would start digging into Franks snaps.  Mccafrey is a really good back Mark.   He's not some gadget guy to me.   There is no better back in this draft in terms of receiving, and he's got more yards carrying the ball then what Reggie Bush had coming out of College. 

 

They say (based on their own opinions) that you don't take a RB in the 1st round, but you do take a WR.  This guy could easily be a huge threat in our passing game with those skills alone.  And I'm not even down playing what he can do in the running game with his vision and quick feet. Plus he can return kicks and punts.   This is not just a RB we are talking about here.   He's got a wider skill set than "Just a RB".   15 might be too high for my taste, but if we took him it wouldn't take me long to get over it.    I see the value and that damn sure doesn't mean you can't knock the rest of the draft out of the park defensively.   It just simply doesn't mean that.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, pgt_rob said:

I don't get the McCaffrey hype. If that's who Denver wants, I'd consider the trade down possibility. 

I don't either honestly that's why is let them have him lol 

[krunk]

10 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'd take him in a heartbeat he's arguably the best back in the whole draft 

You'd take Mixon in the first round?  Hopefully you're not going to contradict your "don't take a back in the first round" statement.

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't think people give Mccaffrey enough credit.    I think after a while he would start digging into Franks snaps.  Mccafrey is a really good back Mark.   He's not some gadget guy to me.   There is no better back in this draft in terms of receiving, and he's got more yards carrying the ball then what Reggie Bush had coming out of College. 

 

They say (based on their own opinions) that you don't take a RB in the 1st round, but you do take a WR.  This guy could easily be a huge threat in our passing game with those skills alone.  And I'm not even down playing what he can do in the running game with his vision and quick feet. Plus he can return kicks and punts.   This is not just a RB we are talking about here.   He's got a wider skill set than "Just a RB".   15 might be too high for my taste, but if we took him it wouldn't take me long to get over it.    I see the value and that damn sure doesn't mean you can't knock the rest of the draft out of the park defensively.   It just simply doesn't mean that.

Taking a WR is even worse than a RB for us in the 1st round. With the way that Luck utilizes Hilton in the passing game, even someone like McCaffrey would have less of an impact than he should. I don't like Donta Foreman much, but I'd even rather take him in the 3rd, then McCaffrey in the 1st, because he'd be effective in the run game and still get some occasional passes like an rb should and benefit the team better. 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

You'd take Mixon in the first round?  Hopefully you're not going to contradict your "don't take a back in the first round" statement.

Oh no not in the first round lol just saying I'd draft him. It would be extremely hard for me to ever draft a back in the first. 

[krunk]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Taking a WR is even worse than a RB for us in the 1st round. With the way that Luck utilizes Hilton in the passing game, even someone like McCaffrey would have less of an impact than he should. I don't like Donta Foreman much, but I'd even rather take him in the 3rd, then McCaffrey in the 1st, because he'd be effective in the run game and still get some occasional passes like an rb should and benefit the team better. 

Says who?   You're telling me if Ferguson would have been consistent with catching the ball we wouldn't have opened his role up in the offense.  Most certainly we would.  TY didn't have much help last year and that's why Andrew went to him so much.     There's not much evidence that Foreman can do much in the passing game other than his pro day.  You know there's nobody covering you on Pro Days and ya ain't wearing equipment.

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Oh no not in the first round lol just saying I'd draft him. It would be extremely hard for me to ever draft a back in the first. 

So if we drafted Mixon in the first round(and that's where you'd have to get him if it wasn't for the incident) about how long would you be upset?  Maybe not even half a day and you know it.  LOL

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

So if we drafted Mixon in the first round(and that's where you'd have to get him if it wasn't for the incident) about how long would you be upset?  Maybe not even half a day and you know it.  LOL

I'd enjoy him but it would be a missed opportunity to add a more valuable piece to the D. Of course I wouldn't hate him I'm very high on his ability one of my favorite guys in the draft along side Jalen Reeves Maybin 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, krunk said:

Says who?   You're telling me if Ferguson would have been consistent with catching the ball we wouldn't have opened his role up in the offense.  Most certainly we would.  TY didn't have much help last year and that's why Andrew went to him so much.     There's not much evidence that Foreman can do much in the passing game other than his pro day.  You know there's nobody covering you on Pro Days and ya ain't wearing equipment.

Says me. It's not about opening up a role, it's about who Luck feels comfortable throwing the ball too. There's a reason Luck throws the ball to Hilton all the time, and it's not random chance. If it was, Dorsett would get more targets (which he doesn't), our RB's would be utilized more in the pass game (which they aren't), and we'd do a dink and dunk offense to utilize Dorsett and Moncrief and get the most out of them (which we don't). It's basically either throw to Hilton on the first read, or throw it to Doyle as your safety valve if Hilton is covered. That's what Luck does. Anyone else gets the remains. McCaffrey won't change that.

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Taking a WR is even worse than a RB for us in the 1st round. With the way that Luck utilizes Hilton in the passing game, even someone like McCaffrey would have less of an impact than he should. I don't like Donta Foreman much, but I'd even rather take him in the 3rd, then McCaffrey in the 1st, because he'd be effective in the run game and still get some occasional passes like an rb should and benefit the team better. 

I'd prefer we go defense just like everybody else but I realize I don't control a darn thing in these draft rooms.   I can't put aside the possibility that they'd pick Mccafrey.   I see his value and I certainly won't say he's not a really good player because he is.  It's not my preferred pick, but hey we need a good runner and he is that.  Not only that but he has a wider skill set.  Once he's on the team it's not like we could kick him off.  All I ask if they make that decision is you better knock out the rest of that draft defensively for sure.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, krunk said:

I'd prefer we go defense just like everybody else but I realize I don't control a darn thing in these draft rooms.   I can't put aside the possibility that they'd pick Mccafrey.   I see his value and I certainly won't say he's not a really good player because he is.  It's not my preferred pick, but hey we need a good runner and he is that.  Not only that but he has a wider skill set.  Once he's on the team it's not like we could kick him off.  All I ask if they make that decision is you better knock out the rest of that draft defensively for sure.

My problem with McCaffrey is he's not a 20 carry per game back. I don't want some "hybrid" type rb/wr in the 1st round. I want a 20 carry per game rb that can catch receptions in the backfield. McCaffrey isn't anywhere close to that, and in IMO, will be a huge letdown if we draft him. I don't think he'll be a bust, but his role will be more minimal than people expect, and if we took him, Gore should literally be gone, and McCaffrey should be the featured back. Somehow, I wouldn't see that happening though. I'm still a traditionalist. You draft an rb in the 1st, he better be a featured back that can carry the team and be special.

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Says me. It's not about opening up a role, it's about who Luck feels comfortable throwing the ball too. There's a reason Luck throws the ball to Hilton all the time, and it's not random chance. If it was, Dorsett would get more targets (which he doesn't), our RB's would be utilized more in the pass game (which they aren't), and we'd do a dink and dunk offense to utilize Dorsett and Moncrief and get the most out of them (which we don't). It's basically either throw to Hilton on the first read, or throw it to Doyle as your safety valve if Hilton is covered. That's what Luck does. Anyone else gets the remains. McCaffrey won't change that.

That's not true.  When we had Reggie Wayne he threw to him just as much as TY.  Sometimes it was more than that.    And why was he throwing to Doyle?  Because he knew Doyle was a reliable option.  Mccafrey would open up our passing game amongst everything else he brings.   Again I realize I don't control who the Colts take in the draft.  If they take Mccafrey I'm not going to sit here and act like we got a bad player.  We addressed a need and added another dimension to our offense.   I might not like the Value, but you can look across an entire draft and make Value arguments on everybodies draft picks.  It's not the end of the world.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

My problem with McCaffrey is he's not a 20 carry per game back. I don't want some "hybrid" type rb/wr in the 1st round. I want a 20 carry per game rb that can catch receptions in the backfield. McCaffrey isn't anywhere close to that, and in IMO, will be a huge letdown if we draft him. I don't think he'll be a bust, but his role will be more minimal than people expect, and if we took him, Gore should literally be gone, and McCaffrey should be the featured back. Somehow, I wouldn't see that happening though. I'm still a traditionalist. You draft an rb in the 1st, he better be a featured back that can carry the team and be special.

Who told you he wasn't?  He carried 30 times  at many different points of his career.   He was their main RB.   I'd be making that 20 carry  argument about Kamara.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

That's not true.  When we had Reggie Wayne he threw to him just as much as TY.  Sometimes it was more than that.    And why was he throwing to Doyle?  Because he knew Doyle was a reliable option.  Mccafrey would open up our passing game amongst everything else he brings.   Again I realize I don't control who the Colts take in the draft.  If they take Mccafrey I'm not going to sit here and act like we got a bad player.  We addressed a need and added another dimension to our offense.   I might not like the Value, but you can look across an entire draft and make Value arguments on everybodies draft picks.  It's not the end of the world.

Reggie is not here today and that's different. Luck was younger and he counted on Wayne as a reliable receiver and a veteran presence. With that gone, he throws to TY and Doyle now. Maybe Moncrief will get a bigger piece of the pie this year, but it doesn't matter what WR type player we draft, it's not going to change Luck's view or his trust in Hilton and Doyle enough to justify a 1st round pick. Tyreek Hill was a fantastic pick for the Chiefs, but the brilliant thing about him was he was a 5th round pick. Getting a guy like that there would be a lot more appropriate.

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

My problem with McCaffrey is he's not a 20 carry per game back. I don't want some "hybrid" type rb/wr in the 1st round. I want a 20 carry per game rb that can catch receptions in the backfield. McCaffrey isn't anywhere close to that, and in IMO, will be a huge letdown if we draft him. I don't think he'll be a bust, but his role will be more minimal than people expect, and if we took him, Gore should literally be gone, and McCaffrey should be the featured back. Somehow, I wouldn't see that happening though. I'm still a traditionalist. You draft an rb in the 1st, he better be a featured back that can carry the team and be special.

I don't see what you're talking about with that argument.   Marshall Faulk was the exact same type of guy.   Same skill set as Mcaffrey, virtually the same size, speed and agility. Mccafreys carried the ball a whole bunch.

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Who told you he wasn't?  He carried 30 times  at many different points of his career.   He was their main RB.   I'd be making that 20 carry  argument about Kamara.

He'll get 20 carries and catches combined, but not 20 carries by himself. He's more of a WR/RB mix than a pure RB. He's 5"11 and 200 pounds, so I don't know how that'll hold up through the year. Kamara I think will be way overdrafted and I agree 100%. If McCaffrey gets 20 carries a game, I'm more for it, if he turns into some Darren Sproles clone, it would absolutely be a waste of a pick.

[Yoshinator]

6 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't see what you're talking about with that argument.   Marshall Faulk was the exact same type of guy.   Same skill set as Mcaffrey, virtually the same size, speed and agility. Mccafreys carried the ball a whole bunch.

Show me a link where he supposed to be a 20 carry back in the NFL and I'll back up on my stance. That's basically my main concern with him. If he's a Marshall Faulk type where he can run the ball 20 times a game and catch 6-8 passes a game, then I'm definitely for it more.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

He'll get 20 carries and catches combined, but not 20 carries by himself. He's more of a WR/RB mix than a pure RB. He's 5"11 and 200 pounds, so I don't know how that'll hold up through the year. Kamara I think will be way overdrafted and I agree 100%. If McCaffrey gets 20 carries a game, I'm more for it, if he turns into some Darren Sproles clone, it would absolutely be a waste of a pick.

Mccafrey is not some small Darren Sproles type.   He's got good height and he's 208 with the ability to add 7 more lbs at least.       

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Show me a link where he supposed to be a 20 carry back in the NFL and I'll back up on my stance. That's basically my main concern with him. If he's a Marshall Faulk type where he can run the ball 20 times a game and catch 6-8 passes a game, then I'm definitely for it more.

"Supposed to be" and what his numbers actually were is two different things.

What you're asking for is some scouts write up versus what he actually did.   Plus scouts can't predict the future. They are wrong on many occasions.  Between 2015-2016 he averaged 23-24 carries a game.

[indyagent17]

11 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I would tell Elway, if you want McCaffrey, give us your 1st and 2nd, if he doesn't do it, then no deal and force him to sweat it out til 20. If he doesn't call your bluff, take BPA.

This

[Yoshinator]

Just now, krunk said:

"Supposed to be" and what his numbers actually were is two different things.

What you're asking for is some scouts write up versus what he actually did.

A ton of rbs can run the ball 20 times a games in college, then go to the NFL and have minimal roles. I know McCaffrey is a guy who is a great receiver, first and foremost, and won't just be a RB. He will line up on passing downs as a receiver. I just want to know if that will interefere and take away from his carries, and how much at the NFL level. Some kind of scout's input on that. College and NFL level are two different things.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

A ton of rbs can run the ball 20 times a games in college, then go to the NFL and have minimal roles. I know McCaffrey is a guy who is a great receiver, first and foremost, and won't just be a RB. He will line up on passing downs as a receiver. I just want to know if that will interefere and take away from his carries, and how much at the NFL level. Some kind of scout's input on that. College and NFL level are two different things.

What real evidence are you drawing from to say he couldn't?  Durability?  No because he's been pretty durable.  Speed?  We know that's not the issue.  Size?  Size really isn't the issue here.  2 straight seasons of 23-24 carries.   What is really making you say this?

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

What real evidence are you drawing from to say he couldn't?  Durability?  No because he's been pretty durable.  Speed?  We know that's not the issue.  Size?  Size really isn't the issue here.  2 straight seasons of 23-24 carries.   What is really making you say this?

I don't know how much he's going to be used a receiver compared to an RB. How many downs will he play as a receiver, how many as an rb? It's not a question of IF he can carry the ball 20 times a game, it's a question of how will teams utilize him as an NFL player. I'm sure you know who his Dad is and how he played in the NFL.

[gacoop1]

I would trade the 15th pick for 20th.  You'll miss the chance of getting the likes of a Reuben Foster or a Dalvin Cook.  

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I don't know how much he's going to be used a receiver compared to an RB. How many downs will he play as a receiver, how many as an rb? It's not a question of IF he can carry the ball 20 times a game, it's a question of how will teams utilize him as an NFL player. I'm sure you know who his Dad is and how he played in the NFL.

What does he dad have to do with him?

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

What does he dad have to do with him?

His Dad was a WR in the NFL, Ed McCaffrey, which I'm sure you know of. I'm sure he taught him how to be a receiver, hence his receiving abilities as a RB. Since he's a hybrid player, that experience with his father means he'll get lots of WR work, especially if someone like Elway drafts him.

[jvan1973]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

His Dad was a WR in the NFL, Ed McCaffrey, which I'm sure you know of. I'm sure he taught him how to be a receiver, hence his receiving abilities as a RB. Since he's a hybrid player, that experience with his father means he'll get lots of WR work, especially if someone like Elway drafts him.

Using that logic,  Kyle long should be playing both OL and DL

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Using that logic,  Kyle long should be playing both OL and DL

Tell me one player that does that in the NFL? I'm waiting. Then I'll tell you a list of players who can play WR and RB. Failed logic there, my friend.

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Tell me one player that does that in the NFL? I'm waiting. Then I'll tell you a list of players who can play WR and RB. Failed logic there, my friend.

I said using your logic.   Just because his dad was a WR doesn't mean christian will play more than a hand full of snaps at wrs

[Yoshinator]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

I said using your logic.   Just because his dad was a WR doesn't mean christian will play more than a hand full of snaps at wrs

That's still being used as a WR, and he'll be used as an RB as well. He's trained for this, and he'll be used to his strengths. The question is if it will cut into his carries, and that was the whole point of my comment. I don't want to draft a WR/RB, I want a 20 carry RB who will catch the ball 6-8 times a game if we are taking him in the 1st round.

[krunk]

I think the dual threat stigma is Non Sense.   I remember growing up watching a little 5'10" 206 lb Running Back named Thurman Thomas rip defenses apart as a runner and a receiver. I used to be just as big a Bills fan in those days as I am a Colt Fan.   It was rare for me to miss a Bills game in the Jim Kelly and Thurman Thomas days.    Now Thomas was a second round pick but the logic still applies.  Thomas was smaller and probably slower than Mccafrey.

 

"Thomas is the only player in NFL history to lead the league in total yards from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons. He is one of only six running backs to have over 400 receptions and 10,000 yards rushing. Walter Payton, Marshall Faulk, Marcus Allen, Tiki Barber, and LaDainian Tomlinson are the other five "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurman_Thomas

 

And he did this while rushing for over 1000 yards in 8 consecutive seasons.

 

 

I just don't see a good reason why Mccaffrey couldn't be the lead back.

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think the dual threat stigma is Non Sense.   I remember growing up watching a little 5'10" 206 lb Running Back named Thurman Thomas rip defenses apart as a runner and a receiver. I used to be just as big a Bills fan in those days as I am a Colt Fan.   It was rare for me to miss a Bills game in the Jim Kelly and Thurman Thomas days.    Now Thomas was a second round pick but the logic still applies.  Thomas was smaller and probably slower than Mccafrey.

 

"Thomas is the only player in NFL history to lead the league in total yards from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons. He is one of only six running backs to have over 400 receptions and 10,000 yards rushing. Walter Payton, Marshall Faulk, Marcus Allen, Tiki Barber, and LaDainian Tomlinson are the other five "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurman_Thomas

 

And he did this while rushing for over 1000 yards in 8 consecutive seasons.

 

 

I just don't see a good reason why Mccaffrey couldn't be the lead back.

If we drafted him in the 1st round, we better release or trade Gore and make McCaffrey the featured back. The only thing that would be more of a crime than taking McCaffrey at 15 is putting him in a timeshare with Gore. 

[KB]

7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If we drafted him in the 1st round, we better release or trade Gore and make McCaffrey the featured back. The only thing that would be more of a crime than taking McCaffrey at 15 is putting him in a timeshare with Gore. 

Why would that be a crime. Even the best running backs have backups to help take a load off. He's not a short yardage back anyways so he will always need someone there to help out.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, KB said:

Why would that be a crime. Even the best running backs have backups to help take a load off. He's not a short yardage back anyways so he will always need someone there to help out.

You don't draft a 1st round RB to be in a timeshare. that would be a waste of a 1st round pick and also a slap in the face to Gore, who shouldn't be getting 6-8 carries a game.

[KB]

9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You don't draft a 1st round RB to be in a timeshare. that would be a waste of a 1st round pick and also a slap in the face to Gore, who shouldn't be getting 6-8 carries a game.

I'm sure gore will understand. Not only is this the last year of his contract but maybe the last in the league. He is also an outstanding professional so I'm sure he understand that his replacement is being looked for. Then next year Christian is the starter with a year of experience. Not the end of the world.

 

P.S. I really hope he isn't our first draft pick. There are better players at positions of need.

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, KB said:

I'm sure gore will understand. Not only is this the last year of his contract but maybe the last in the league. He is also an outstanding professional so I'm sure he understand that his replacement is being looked for. Then next year Christian is the starter with a year of experience. Not the end of the world.

 

P.S. I really hope he isn't our first draft pick. There are better players at positions of need.

Fair enough, and I agree, I hope we pass up on him, there's about 20 players, IMO, that are better, and he should never be BPA, no matter the scenario of who gets drafted 1-14 before us.

[Superman]

13 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

How about two third round picks?

 

I would do it for two third rounders. I'm going down to #20, and I get back #82 and #101? Yes. According to the value chart, I'm coming out ahead by 80 points.

 

Realistically, Denver would maybe offer #82 and #126. I'm still coming out ahead 26 points, and I only have to move down 5 spots. Depending on how the board looks, I'm okay with that. Let's say five of Barnett, Charlton, Reddick, Foster, Humphrey, Harris, White, are available, and I know the Broncos want McCaffrey, I'm still getting a really good prospect at #20.

[Imrryr]

I wouldnt be mad if we took McCaffery, are thwre other players? Definetly. However, McCaffery would give andrew help he hasnt had in a long time if ever