Are the Colts REALLY trying to win a SB with Luck?

[TheRustonRifle#7]

Failure is only embiggened by those who fail to see the failure of the fail....

 

 

[Jason_]

4 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

Was watching First Take this morning (Wed 3/29/17) debating on Irsay's comment for the fans in Indy to be patient and that Chuck doesn't "per say" have to win this season to keep his job. Really? I like some of the moves Ballard has done so far by getting rid of some dead weight with the team such as big money Jones and Allen, a declining Jackson and a putrid McNary while retaining Doyle and Butler but I'm NOT a fan of all the 2nd and 3rd tier type of players brought in through FA. The new motto is now QUANTITY over QUALITY. This team STILL lacks PLAYMAKERS on defense. Maybe one or two of the players can come in and ball out but it puts more pressure on Ballard to knock it out the park in the draft to find those playmakers but then you're left with Chuck (who should've been released also) to develop them.

 

I'm of the mindset like most that the time is now for Luck in a weak but fast improving afc south. Like Pats owner Robert Kraft said you strive for the top EVERY year to give yourself a shot because nothing is promised ESPECIALLY with injuries. I'm not saying the Colts need to break the bank in FA at all but instead of signing seven or eight 2nd and 3rd tier type of players try mixing in one or two playmakers on defense. This whole notion of the Colts being in rebuild mode with the same subpar coach who was part of the problem in the first place is doing Luck no favor. Ballard is following Grigson as ANOTHER first time gm on the job tied to the hip with Chuck and only time will tell if he can do a better job than Grigs who by the way won the executive of the year in his first season but proved to be subpar as the talent level declined over the years. Now Colt fans will have to endure another season under Chuck (maybe more) and face a strong possibility of being in the cellar of the afc south with Andrew Luck at qb...

 

[Malakai432]

5 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

Was watching First Take this morning (Wed 3/29/17) debating on Irsay's comment for the fans in Indy to be patient and that Chuck doesn't "per say" have to win this season to keep his job. Really? I like some of the moves Ballard has done so far by getting rid of some dead weight with the team such as big money Jones and Allen, a declining Jackson and a putrid McNary while retaining Doyle and Butler but I'm NOT a fan of all the 2nd and 3rd tier type of players brought in through FA. The new motto is now QUANTITY over QUALITY. This team STILL lacks PLAYMAKERS on defense. Maybe one or two of the players can come in and ball out but it puts more pressure on Ballard to knock it out the park in the draft to find those playmakers but then you're left with Chuck (who should've been released also) to develop them.

 

I'm of the mindset like most that the time is now for Luck in a weak but fast improving afc south. Like Pats owner Robert Kraft said you strive for the top EVERY year to give yourself a shot because nothing is promised ESPECIALLY with injuries. I'm not saying the Colts need to break the bank in FA at all but instead of signing seven or eight 2nd and 3rd tier type of players try mixing in one or two playmakers on defense. This whole notion of the Colts being in rebuild mode with the same subpar coach who was part of the problem in the first place is doing Luck no favor. Ballard is following Grigson as ANOTHER first time gm on the job tied to the hip with Chuck and only time will tell if he can do a better job than Grigs who by the way won the executive of the year in his first season but proved to be subpar as the talent level declined over the years. Now Colt fans will have to endure another season under Chuck (maybe more) and face a strong possibility of being in the cellar of the afc south with Andrew Luck at qb...

[FanFromtheWasteland]

Yes they are trying. Whether they succeed in doing so is a whole nother matter

[King Colt]

I never read "Gone With The Wind" for a reason.

[SaturdayAllDay]

We are specifically attempting to go 0-16 every year while we have Luck. Unfortunately Pagano is an incompetent coach and keeps sticking us at 8-8. We need to fire this guy or we will never hit our perfect 0-16 season!!!! 

[Imrryr]

I see a meme party. I wanna play too.

[crazycolt1]

12 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

Was watching First Take this morning (Wed 3/29/17) debating on Irsay's comment for the fans in Indy to be patient and that Chuck doesn't "per say" have to win this season to keep his job. Really? I like some of the moves Ballard has done so far by getting rid of some dead weight with the team such as big money Jones and Allen, a declining Jackson and a putrid McNary while retaining Doyle and Butler but I'm NOT a fan of all the 2nd and 3rd tier type of players brought in through FA. The new motto is now QUANTITY over QUALITY. This team STILL lacks PLAYMAKERS on defense. Maybe one or two of the players can come in and ball out but it puts more pressure on Ballard to knock it out the park in the draft to find those playmakers but then you're left with Chuck (who should've been released also) to develop them.

 

I'm of the mindset like most that the time is now for Luck in a weak but fast improving afc south. Like Pats owner Robert Kraft said you strive for the top EVERY year to give yourself a shot because nothing is promised ESPECIALLY with injuries. I'm not saying the Colts need to break the bank in FA at all but instead of signing seven or eight 2nd and 3rd tier type of players try mixing in one or two playmakers on defense. This whole notion of the Colts being in rebuild mode with the same subpar coach who was part of the problem in the first place is doing Luck no favor. Ballard is following Grigson as ANOTHER first time gm on the job tied to the hip with Chuck and only time will tell if he can do a better job than Grigs who by the way won the executive of the year in his first season but proved to be subpar as the talent level declined over the years. Now Colt fans will have to endure another season under Chuck (maybe more) and face a strong possibility of being in the cellar of the afc south with Andrew Luck at qb...

First take? Well we all know they are the authority on how to run the Colts.

Take my advice, find a different source to listen to before taking anything said on First Take as knowledgeable.

[bluephantom87]

I get what some are saying but I'm shocked as a Colt fan that some on this board have NO problem with Irsay saying that it's wrong to assume Chuck needs to win to keep his job. I will say again really? I believe Ballard will be fine as gm and as I stated I like some of his moves so far but the ONLY wish I'd like to see is a couple of playmakers signed in FA. I NEVER said they need to break the bank or pay for OLD players on the decline with big names. As I look at the afc landscape and see the Pats on top with teams like the Steelers, Chiefs, Broncos, Texans, Raiders and Ravens looking to challenge while Cincy looks to rebound along with the young Titans headed in an upward direction. Where does that leave the Colts with Luck at qb in YEAR SIX? Rebuild mode.

 

As far as First Take I don't watch it on a daily basis nor do I take what they say with a grain of salt BUT sometimes I will tune in to a topic concerning Irsay or the Colts and it's funny how they view the team as many do OUTSIDE of Indy as one that is wasting the talent of Luck with a poor coaching staff (not all) and a below avg roster with Irsay being the root cause for not canning the DUO sooner. There is a positive because many believe Ballard will do well. I for one hope so....

[ManningGM]

Excellent post, OP.

[OffensivelyPC]

56 minutes ago, ManningGM said:

Excellent post, OP.

Now it's officially a bad thread. 

[OffensivelyPC]

8 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

I get what some are saying but I'm shocked as a Colt fan that some on this board have NO problem with Irsay saying that it's wrong to assume Chuck needs to win to keep his job.

[COLTS449]

Steven A was basically saying the same thing I've been saying all along, and I've been blasted for it. We have a franchise QB. Waiting is stupid. We can turn things around overnight with the right moves. Paraphrasing, but you guys seen it or can go back and find it somewhere.

[crazycolt1]

23 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

Steven A was basically saying the same thing I've been saying all along, and I've been blasted for it. We have a franchise QB. Waiting is stupid. We can turn things around overnight with the right moves. Paraphrasing, but you guys seen it or can go back and find it somewhere.

For one thing if you are talking about Steven Smith you are listening to a point counter point argumentative show. They make these points in that concept. They themselves may not agree or really believe what they are saying because the show is based on an argumentative point of view. It makes for good ratings when people like you tune in and buy into their line of nonsense.

[COLTS449]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

For one thing if you are talking about Steven Smith you are listening to a point counter point argumentative show. They make these points in that concept. They themselves may not agree or really believe what they are saying because the show is based on an argumentative point of view. It makes for good ratings when people like you tune in and buy into their line of nonsense.

 

Steven A is a real dude man. And by that I mean he says what he feels. AKA he's real, straight up. Nothing fake about him. I do disagree with some things he says (Such as this morning talking about Josh Gordon), but I love that he gets all tore up and tells it like it is.

[crazycolt1]

13 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Steven A is a real dude man. And by that I mean he says what he feels. AKA he's real, straight up. Nothing fake about him. I do disagree with some things he says (Such as this morning talking about Josh Gordon), but I love that he gets all tore up and tells it like it is.

If you think Steven A is what you call a real dude then there is not much more to say to you. ESPN and anything connected to First Take is a joke. They are not interested in reporting real facts and guide their show to those who fall for their nonsense. Carry on.

[jvan1973]

45 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

Steven A was basically saying the same thing I've been saying all along, and I've been blasted for it. We have a franchise QB. Waiting is stupid. We can turn things around overnight with the right moves. Paraphrasing, but you guys seen it or can go back and find it somewhere.

Steven A needs to stick to the NBA.  He knows nothing about the NFL, and he proves it every time

[COLTS449]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

If you think Steven A is what you call a real dude then there is not much more to say to you. ESPN and anything connected to First Take is a joke. They are not interested in reporting real facts and guide their show to those who fall for their nonsense. Carry on.

 

Just our opinions man. We're all Colts fans

[COLTS449]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Steven A needs to stick to the NBA.  He knows nothing about the NFL, and he proves it every time

 

I will say he's more of an NBA guy, but he still knows the NFL IMO.

[Jason_]

9 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

I get what some are saying but I'm shocked as a Colt fan that some on this board have NO problem with Irsay saying that it's wrong to assume Chuck needs to win to keep his job. I will say again really?

 

what the hell else should Irsay have said?  why do you and a few others continually take comments by Irsay/Pagano/Ballard literally?  99% of what comes out of their mouths is owner speak/coach speak/GM speak. 

 

I swear some of you wouldn't be happy unless Irsay blatantly said something along the lines of, "Pagano?  Yeah that dumb*** better win at least 12 games or his *** will be out on the streets!"

 

Please stop taking what they say literally and more importantly please STOP bellyaching on the forum about what you took seriously that you shouldn't have.

 

Thanks

[bluephantom87]

17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

These are the kind of off-season threads that make everyone go......                 

 

Thanks to everyone for the great posts expressing your frustration with this thread....                   

A thread that I think brings up some valid points whether you agree or not? I ask you NCF forget the nfl what is the pecking order of the Colts right now in the afc? Are they a contender or closer to a slightly above lower tier team in the conference? I read some of the responses and I will clarify again.... I like some of what Ballard has done so far. I just would like to see a PLAYMAKER or two added on defense in FA to give this team a chance to compete in a weak division that is getting better. I even said that one or two of the 2nd / 3rd tier FA signed so far might even turn out to be a baller. No I'm not a fan of spending big in FA ESPECIALLY on older players DECLINING in their skillset. It's not about who can make the most noise in FA but who can get better COMBINED with some gems taken in the draft. I honestly believe Ballard will do well but only time will tell. Do I believe his hands are tied with Chuck? Yes I do....

 

Which brings me to Irsay and his EGO. I believe this whole rebuild mode falls directly on his plate because you have to be willing to recognize a mistake, correct it and move on instead of forcing a situation to save face. I just can't believe that Chuck is STILL probably safe if he doesn't win this season as hinted by Irsay already. The culture of winning starts from the top as stated by Pats owner Robert Kraft. It can't be about egos only what's best for the team by surrounding yourself with the best people possible to accomplish greatness. All the former greats say you are one hit from your career being over and trust me Andrew has taken his so how much longer must he be patient?

[crazycolt1]

13 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

what the hell else should Irsay have said?  why do you and a few others continually take comments by Irsay/Pagano/Ballard literally?  99% of what comes out of their mouths is owner speak/coach speak/GM speak. 

 

I swear some of you wouldn't be happy unless Irsay blatantly said something along the lines of, "Pagano?  Yeah that dumb*** better win at least 12 games or his *** will be out on the streets!"

 

Please stop taking what they say literally and more importantly please STOP bellyaching on the forum about what you took seriously that you shouldn't have.

 

Thanks

I totally agree. Problems and issues are kept in house and that is the way it should be. The things Irsay say's today may not mean anything tomorrow. He can change his mind anytime just like anyone of us.

Now some are bringing up something Irsay said years ago. Really? Sometimes things brought up and discussed in this forum is so funny it's mind boggling.

[bluephantom87]

13 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

what the hell else should Irsay have said?  why do you and a few others continually take comments by Irsay/Pagano/Ballard literally?  99% of what comes out of their mouths is owner speak/coach speak/GM speak. 

 

I swear some of you wouldn't be happy unless Irsay blatantly said something along the lines of, "Pagano?  Yeah that dumb*** better win at least 12 games or his *** will be out on the streets!"

 

Please stop taking what they say literally and more importantly please STOP bellyaching on the forum about what you took seriously that you shouldn't have.

 

Thanks

How about nothing at all or something more along the lines of I expect this team to compete and my evaluation will be at the end of the season. This is a Colt forum to talk football and once again I say your dismissive tone ALWAYS make me chuckle because it's ALWAYS easy behind the keyboard.... 

[bluephantom87]

6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I totally agree. Problems and issues are kept in house and that is the way it should be. The things Irsay say's today may not mean anything tomorrow. He can change his mind anytime just like anyone of us.

Now some are bringing up something Irsay said years ago. Really? Sometimes things brought up and discussed in this forum is so funny it's mind boggling.

Irsay said this a few days ago....

[crazycolt1]

36 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

A thread that I think brings up some valid points whether you agree or not? I ask you NCF forget the nfl what is the pecking order of the Colts right now in the afc? Are they a contender or closer to a slightly above lower tier team in the conference? I read some of the responses and I will clarify again.... I like some of what Ballard has done so far. I just would like to see a PLAYMAKER or two added on defense in FA to give this team a chance to compete in a weak division that is getting better. I even said that one or two of the 2nd / 3rd tier FA signed so far might even turn out to be a baller. No I'm not a fan of spending big in FA ESPECIALLY on older players DECLINING in their skillset. It's not about who can make the most noise in FA but who can get better COMBINED with some gems taken in the draft. I honestly believe Ballard will do well but only time will tell. Do I believe his hands are tied with Chuck? Yes I do....

 

Which brings me to Irsay and his EGO. I believe this whole rebuild mode falls directly on his plate because you have to be willing to recognize a mistake, correct it and move on instead of forcing a situation to save face. I just can't believe that Chuck is STILL probably safe if he doesn't win this season as hinted by Irsay already. The culture of winning starts from the top as stated by Pats owner Robert Kraft. It can't be about egos only what's best for the team by surrounding yourself with the best people possible to accomplish greatness. All the former greats say you are one hit from your career being over and trust me Andrew has taken his so how much longer must he be patient?

What you seem to overlook is Pagano has never head coached a losing team is his short 5 years. Two 8-8 seasons for something that can't be related directly to his coaching and all you want is his head.

I am glad Irsay keeps a level head and don't listen to fans and their fandom wishes.

I for one am tired of hearing about Robert Kraft and what he said. It is a fact his team is the most penalized team in NFL history and it is proven that winning at all cost is all he cares about. It makes no difference to him what playing the game within the rules means because he has no ethnics.

[Jason_]

39 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

How about nothing at all or something more along the lines of I expect this team to compete and my evaluation will be at the end of the season. This is a Colt forum to talk football and once again I say your dismissive tone ALWAYS make me chuckle because it's ALWAYS easy behind the keyboard.... 

 

and as I've said before, behind a keyboard is my only option at the moment

[bluephantom87]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

What you seen to overlook is Pagano has never head coached a losing team is his short 5 years. Two 8-8 seasons for something that can't be related directly to his coaching and all you want is his head.

I am glad Irsay keeps a level head and don't listen to fans and their fandom wishes.

I for one am tired of hearing about Robert Kraft and what he said. It is a fact his team is the most penalized team in NFL history and it is proven that winning at all cost is all he cars about. It makes no difference to him what playing the game within the rules means because he has no ethnics.

What?!! I have no say in his job status on whether he goes or stays nor does the national media or anybody else but I do think Chuck is part of the problem based strictly on his coaching abilities and development of players period. If you're cool with entering the final game of the season at 7-8 the last couple years playing at home against a PAIR of dismal 3 win teams ONLY to pull out last minute wins then fine I have no problem with that but I will ask you since you brought up his record of not having a losing season did he do it with Grigson's "bad" roster? Did Bruce add 9 wins to his first season? Did the franchise qb known as Luck contribute to that? To me that is a blanket statement because Chuck has benefited from many factors INCLUDING the former putrid afc south which has gotten better and just might have something to do with those 8-8 records. At the end of the day it's neither here nor there because Chuck is the coach and I can only hope for his growth for the better of the team....  

[dodsworth]

Grigson was swinging for the fences in his first couple of years to chase a title, but when he whiffed it put him and the team in a bind. Ballard is in the process of digging out of that hole as we speak.

 

Not real sure if the guy on the sideline has what it takes to hoist the Lombardi but we have another season to make a better judgement on that subject.

[bluephantom87]

2 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

and as I've said before, behind a keyboard is my only option at the moment

We ALWAYS have options..... I just don't understand how you come off with that abrasive undertone when you disagree with various posts. This is a forum where OPINIONS will differ on various topics and I don't expect EVERYONE to agree with mine just like in politics but at the end of the day you don't have to read my post period especially considering the fact that you NEVER agree with anything I say so why bother? I'm just a fellow fan that happened to take a devastating knee injury that took me away from the game but it doesn't stop me from chopping it up with other fans to talk about Colt football and as a matter of fact I enjoyed most of the responses on this topic because some were quite clever....  

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Obligatory reminder that going into Peyton Manning's 6th season the Colts had zero playoff wins to show for.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, bluephantom87 said:

I just can't believe that Chuck is STILL probably safe if he doesn't win this season as hinted by Irsay already

 

If he doesn't win what, exactly? Where do you think the bar should be set for Pagano in 2017?

 

Or is your point just that you want him gone already? Because if that's your point, you should convince a group of Libyan terrorists to give you some uranium and use it to build a time machine out of a Delorean, then go back in time to convince Irsay to fire Pagano before he decided that he would be keeping him as the coach this season. Either that, or get over it and move forward already.

[bluephantom87]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If he doesn't win what, exactly? Where do you think the bar should be set for Pagano in 2017?

 

Or is your point just that you want him gone already? Because if that's your point, you should convince a group of Libyan terrorists to give you some uranium and use it to build a time machine out of a Delorean, then go back in time to convince Irsay to fire Pagano before he decided that he would be keeping him as the coach this season. Either that, or get over it and move forward already.

Superman you are one of my favorites on this board and I was simply commenting on the generic statement made by Irsay and I'm sure he's not talking a SB win. If you look up about 4 posts up on this page I closed with saying at the end of the day Chuck is the hc and I can only hope for his growth for the better of the team so the focus is of the upcoming season....

[21isSuperman]

20 hours ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

No, they are trying to regress every year until Andrew quits......resistance is futile!

It's the anti-Kurt Warner story.  High profile prospect gets drafted first overall but ends up retiring early to work at his local grocery store

[TheRustonRifle#7]

3 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

It's the anti-Kurt Warner story.  High profile prospect gets drafted first overall but ends up retiring early to work at his local grocery store

Sounds perfectly reasonable.

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

Superman you are one of my favorites on this board and I was simply commenting on the generic statement made by Irsay and I'm sure he's not talking a SB win. If you look up about 4 posts up on this page I closed with saying at the end of the day Chuck is the hc and I can only hope for his growth for the better of the team so the focus is of the upcoming season....

 

But that's pretty much exactly what Irsay said.

 

So my question is basically about what you think will be an acceptable season from the Colts and from Pagano in order for him to keep his job moving forward.

[Jason_]

49 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

We ALWAYS have options..... I just don't understand how you come off with that abrasive undertone when you disagree with various posts. This is a forum where OPINIONS will differ on various topics and I don't expect EVERYONE to agree with mine just like in politics but at the end of the day you don't have to read my post period especially considering the fact that you NEVER agree with anything I say so why bother? I'm just a fellow fan that happened to take a devastating knee injury that took me away from the game but it doesn't stop me from chopping it up with other fans to talk about Colt football and as a matter of fact I enjoyed most of the responses on this topic because some were quite clever....  

 

that abrasive undertone only surfaces after repeated dealings with the same whinings from the same people

[crazycolt1]

43 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

that abrasive undertone only surfaces after repeated dealings with the same whinings from the same people

It does seem a few always bring Pagano into threads that has absolutely nothing to do with the threads.

It's like they are possessed with Pagano and want to blame him for everything negative about the team.

Broken records get annoying

 

[BR-549]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

It does seem a few always bring Pagano into threads that has absolutely nothing to do with the threads.

It's like they are possessed with Pagano and want to blame him for everything negative about the team.

Broken records get annoying

 

As do go nowhere threads with little usefulness.... 

[horseshoepower]

"Was watching First Take this morning"

You lost me with this line, First Take the annoying show of people wasting 30 to 60 minutes yelling at each other about who the best player or best team is ...Did they run out of conversation for 5 seconds about Lebron James, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, New England Patriots,  Los Angeles Lakers, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, to actually mention the Colts ?? 

[bluephantom87]

10 hours ago, Superman said:

 

But that's pretty much exactly what Irsay said.

 

So my question is basically about what you think will be an acceptable season from the Colts and from Pagano in order for him to keep his job moving forward.

Ok Superman as long as the Colts show improvement I'm good. 10-6 I think would give the team a shot at the division but even 9-7 would be trending upward. I agreed with you last season on some of your displeasure with Chuck and some of his coaching decisions at times. Once the season ended and Grigson was released while Chuck was retained I had no choice but to root for Chuck in the upcoming season simply because IF Chuck shines the team will be better for it.

 

I ONLY started this post about Irsay and Chuck because they were the topic of debate on the Wed episode of First Take. (man do I miss football)  Not really a fan of the show BUT I will tune in from time to time if there is a topic on the Colts or Pacers just to see what's said. Same goes for the NFL network, NBA tv and of course ESPN. The topic in a nutshell was about Irsay's recent comments for Indy fans to be patient while they rebuild and that it's wrong to assume that Chuck needs to win to keep his job. So the debated question was could the Colts win another SB under Irsay. They love the franchise qb in Luck and feel the Colts have done him no favor with the roster or leadership around him. Max said that Chuck Pagano was a whole topic by himself. I do agree with the show that I think they can turn it around quickly by adding a few studs on defense along with Luck at qb in the south.