Stephen Holder interview with Jim Irsay

[Mr. Irrelevant]

18 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

I hope Stephen Holder is incorrect about the RB being an early pick. I just hope the Colts don't pick a RB in round 1...I really don't care who's there at 15. We have bigger issues to solve than RB, and this draft is deep enough not to have to do that.  

Irsay clearly indicated that a RB will be taken in the later rounds in his draft interview video on Colts.com

 

[loudnproudcolt]

I admit to not having read the interview, but I think very few owners don't give some input on the draft. The difference being of course, how much the GM must listen to it, and have to go along. Having said that, I believe Irsay when hiring Ballard has gone back to a strategy of when the club was most successful, and Irsay could be talking about what he has discussed with Ballard, and he is using the interview to channel Ballard's draft vision.

 

One of the reasons Ballard did not get a GM position earlier, was the fact he was very honest when interviewing about the problems he saw with a franchise, and his vision on fixing it. I have read many articles detailing the  view this is why he did not get the Chicago GM position. Do I know this for sure, no, but from his demeanor I can see Ballard more of a type of guy who truly wants to build something, and is not going to ignore problem areas within an organization. We have already started to see this as he has started to clean house.

 

Irsay's most successful years were when he let Polian essentially run the club. Polian has been very involved with this hire. It may be Irsay has realized his error, and hired someone more like Polian, thus he is only relating Ballard's draft strategy going forward.

[WarGhost21]

13 hours ago, crunked said:

Stephen Holder

 

✔ @HolderStephen

I might have mischaracterized Irsay in an earlier tweet. He mentioned RBs repeatedly. But he did throw in "later draft pick" later on.

Just going to copy this so I can paste it in every thread where someone mentions Cook or another RB in round 1...

[crazycolt1]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

And put TJ Green into that group.  

 

My overall point is that Irsay's own words suggest that he is much more involved in the draft process than some other owners.  We all know Jerry Jones is involved with his team, and that he has made that involvement very public.  

 

Just take that into account when we have discussions about players being drafted, signed, cut, or any other player/personnel decisions.

 

This forum seems to think that when player decisions are made, they are the singular decision of an iron-fisted GM.

 

Irsay's own words suggest that it is a group effort, a group contribution of thoughts.......and that player decisions, at least the important draft picks and free agent signings or cuts, cannot be attributed to one person.

 

 I'm sure the GM has final say...that's his job...but he's not going to go too far against the thoughts of his owner or even HC.  It just doesn't work that way in real life, IMO.

I don't think you are wrong at all.  From the scouts all the way up to the owner do have a collective say so in making the big board. Ultimately the GM is the one who gets the credit or the blame regardless of it was 'his' pick. It's easy for the fans to use hind sight to judge what players should have been picked and point the finger at the GM when it misses.

To hear some of the exaggeration of how bad Grigson was is completely over looking the few good picks he did make. The fan base of the Colts are so used to have winning seasons that when a 8-8 season happens some think it's the end of the world. This mentality of firing everybody from the water boy's all the way up to the GM is a knee jerk reaction that is said out of frustration without thinking past the consequences of those actions.

 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Perhaps a bit of a surprise to some, Irsay thinks the offensive line group, with several young pieces, is a unit he feels good about.

 

Defense round 1 boys it's happening. 

[deedub75]

14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't know what you read in those tweets that gave you the impression that Pagano is a lame duck coach.

 

His comments struck me as quite the opposite.    I thought Irsay did a nice job of cooling the seat the Pagano sits  on,   NOT making it hotter...

 

 

The fact that Irsay keeps saying the Pagano will be "evaluated" keeps the seat warm at the very least. Going into year six, you just don't expect an owner to keep saying that unless he just doesn't believe in the coach. 

 

I still believe that Pagano is keeping the coaching seat warm for another coach next year. 

 

[jskinnz]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

No question the roster is deficient. But Pagano has been deficient himself, in ways. Remember, in 2015 when it was reported that the Colts hadn't offered him a long term extension, I was supportive of the team's stance.

 

I always thought Pagano could be better schematically, could gameplan better, make better adjustments, etc. I've never liked what seems to be his preferred offense. I think he has made some critical mistakes at crucial junctures of games -- the Detroit timeout, for instance; or punting against New England in the 2013 playoff game (which we weren't going to win, but it was still the wrong call). I could rack my brain for other examples.

 

 

 

His in-game management is not good.  I am not sure of the best way to describe it - I think he gets anxious and rushes things unnecessarily.  

 

Case in point - another bad time out he called in the Bears game in October of last year.  I don't know this was ever discussed because it did not impact the outcome of the game.  Colts were driving at the end of the half down by the Bears' goal line.  They ran a play (don't recall if it was a run or pass) but it was stopped and the clock was still running.  He called a timeout with about 15 seconds left in the half and AV kicks a field goal.

 

The point though is when he called the time - there was no sense.  He should have waited until about 3 seconds left and make that the last play of the half.  Instead now they have to defend a kickoff and whatever play the Bears try to run.  Again, IMO he got anxious because he knew he needed a time out to get AV onto the field but did not have the presence of mind to wait it out.

 

A minor detail for sure and something that other coaches have damn sure done.  But this was just a few weeks after the debacle of a TO against the Lions and another illustration of being a poor game manager.

 

[krunk]

It's pretty clear to me that Ballard and Co from Irsays words will have a strong likelihood of wheeling and dealing to pick up some extra draft picks in this one. I'm assuming we come out of this draft with around at least 9 draft picks.

[MTC]

I'm a fan of trading back. This draft is deep with a lot of talent. 

[DaColts85]

It is funny because there are reports of the complete opposite of what Holder is saying.  Trading back to get more picks and to go after a late round RB not early round pick.  

 

https://t.co/SJk5WHofgn 

[Dingus McGirt]

5 hours ago, AustexColt said:

One big lesson that Pagano needs to learn is to be more like Bellichek. Bellichek is actively involved in preparing, analyzing during the game and adjusting throughout the game. Pagano is a good motivator/communicator but he needs to sharpen his analytical skills. Bellichek is the opposite. His analytical skills are off the chart with limited communication skill. Players and his coaches respect Bellichek because he is the PROFESSOR. Hope Pagano/his coaching staff can turn the corner this year, if not this might be their last year.

Not so sure about your assessment of BB's comm skills.  He chooses to communicate the way he does in public settings.  His team is always ready, always on the same sheet of music...someone is communicating.

 

[bababooey]

16 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

I highly doubt he'll go RB round 1 or 2. Probably 3 or 4 is my guess.

I foresee Mixon/McCaffrey over Fournette/Cook.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

And put TJ Green into that group.  

 

My overall point is that Irsay's own words suggest that he is much more involved in the draft process than some other owners.  We all know Jerry Jones is involved with his team, and that he has made that involvement very public.  

 

Just take that into account when we have discussions about players being drafted, signed, cut, or any other player/personnel decisions.

 

More than other owners?  Mostly, yes.  Involved?  Yes, indirectly.  Jim hired his front office.  Jim hired his scouts. Jim hired or allowed his FO to hire the coaching staff.  Jim has enough qualified and paid employees to do the job without his input.  He knows this. OTOH, I've heard enough stories from Bill Polian over the years on his radio braodcasts (including NFL radio) to hear many stories. He says Jim is very football knowledgeable, but doesn't tend to butt in. However, he will offer his opinion if asked,   Another time Irsay came into a meeting to ask a question and overheard Polian and Dungy discussing who to take at #24 in round 1 of the draft.  Dungy wanted a (undisclosed name) defensive guy. (there you go peeps that get mad at Colts not building a D for Peyton).  Polian wanted Dallas Clark. As Jim was leaving, he said to carry on with their great work.  But as he was closing the door, paused and said, "If this was up to me, I'd go with the tight end from Iowa."  And left.  Dungy looked at Polian and said "I guess we're drafting Dallas Clark!" 

 

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

 

This forum seems to think that when player decisions are made, they are the singular decision of an iron-fisted GM.

 

Irsay's own words suggest that it is a group effort, a group contribution of thoughts.......and that player decisions, at least the important draft picks and free agent signings or cuts, cannot be attributed to one person.

 

People do not realize that the base horizontal and vertical draft boards are done by the scouts.  The Gm and coaches are too tied up during the season to spend hours watching college kids tape.  Their job is to win NFL games and devote their energy and resources into doing so.  After the season ends, the GM and coaching staff get together with the scouts.  Concentration and input form the GM Coaches is toward the top of the lists.  Then GM and/or coaches will got to College all-star games (East-West, Senior Bowl, etc...) and also break down tape on targeted players.  It is these items and further meetings with scouts about player intangibles (especially round 1 or 2 players).  This is when adjustments to the 'Big Board' get made.  This happens all the time up until draft.  You want to know why FA has dried up?  Teams feel the best FA's are taken, those remaining are asking too muc so they have moved on to what I just pointed out concerning the upcoming draft preparations.    Once OTA's and training camp begin and players get hurt, the FA market will open up again.  For now it is draft season.

 

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

 I'm sure the GM has final say...that's his job...but he's not going to go too far against the thoughts of his owner or even HC.  It just doesn't work that way in real life, IMO.

 

He mostly does, but the real final decision (only if necessary) is Jim Irsay's, but he doesn't abuse it.  He does hire who he feels is the best, then gives them the room to perform. That's one of the great things about Irsay.  and he is quite knowledgeable about the game allowing him to make generally correct decisions for his club in every respect.  Polian beams to this day about how football intelligent Irsay is, and the hours and hours of advanced football conversations he and Polian had.  So it is a group effort, and you can see why continuity would be preferred in this scenario.

 

[bababooey]

13 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Lots of encouraging stuff.  As someone said, it is owner speak, so we have to take it with a grain of salt.  But I do like how they are at least considering trading down to acquire more picks.

Reminds me of this article on Belichek.

 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/bill-belichick-nfl-draft-new-england-patriots/

 

[lollygagger8]

2 hours ago, Mr Clueless said:

Irsay clearly indicated that a RB will be taken in the later rounds in his draft interview video on Colts.com

 

Right on, thanks. I didn't hear interview, only read the Holder tweet 

[bababooey]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think it says there are certain things out of Chuck's control...

 

That the Colts could go 10-6, and improvement,  but if the Texans go 11-5, and win the South,  it's not Pagano's fault,  and wouldn't necessarily mean Chuck would be fired.      

 

And I think it means that Irsay is publicly acknowledging that the roster is not very good and that's not Pagano's fault,  so expecting to chicken salad into filet mignon is not fair to Pagano and he'll be judged on a different sent of criteria than he has been in the past....   

 

And that would be....   Is the team well coached?     Are the Colts getting the most out of their roster?     That's it's not just a simple matter of wins and loses....    That the whole franchise is still dealing with the problems that Grigson left them.....

 

That's my view of Irsay's comment.

 

To be fair, we had the roster to make the playoffs. Lions, both Texans (especially the first), and Jags in London are all winnable games. 

[lollygagger8]

2 hours ago, Majin Vegeta said:

He said "late round RB" Not early. 

What he actually wrote was: They're drafting a running back earlier than later from what I can tell. That was my interpretation.

[bababooey]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Couple of thoughts.....

 

I don't view Pagano as "mediocre"....     I know many others here do....

 

I don't think Pagano was "mediocre" in 12, 13 and 14 when the team was going 11-5 each year.

 

So,  what changed?      In my view,  the quality of the roster changed.     Coaches don't typically regress, or get stupid over night.    So, when a team's performance drops as ours did,  then I view it more on the roster than I do on the coaching.

 

Speaking of which,  I wasn't expecting any coaching changes this off-season,  especially not in view of the fact that Pagano turned over roughly 40 percent of the coaching staff one year ago.     I think the staff gets at least another year to show what it can do....

 

We went from winning an unsustainable amount of 1 score games to regressing to average/below average in one score games. Went from lowest penalized team to one of the highest penalized teams. Went from playing hard and coming out prepared most of the time to putting together a full game only a third of the time...

 

Edit: We went from shocking a few teams like Denver, Seattle, Niners (A SB champ, AFC champ, and NFC runner up) in the same month, to simply not competing with those types of teams anymore.

[aaron11]

8 minutes ago, bababooey said:

We went from winning an unsustainable amount of 1 score games to regressing to average/below average in one score games. Went from lowest penalized team to one of the highest penalized teams. Went from playing hard and coming out prepared most of the time to putting together a full game only a third of the time...

yeah, it was a combination of winning close games and playing in a very weak division, among other things

 

the texans are better now too, and that is a factor

[bababooey]

Just now, aaron11 said:

yeah, it was a combination of winning close games and playing in a very weak division among other things

 

the texans are better now too, and that is a factor

We beat a SB champ, AFC champ, and NFC runner up in the same month in Luck's second year. I know when Reggie got hurt we lost our way and got smoked by teams like the Rams, Cards, and Bengals, but since then we get stomped by good teams like the Steelers, Pats, and Cowboys and lose to the teams we should be beating.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Here's the interview broken up into a series of videos on the main site.

 

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Irsay-On-Luck-Injury-Last-Year-Was-A-Struggle-/e8cffbf8-1441-4091-bdc5-076b5c04e155

 

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Irsay_On_Evaluating_Pagano_In_2017_/0cd19012-6eb9-40c4-9780-5bd9b556348a

 

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Jim_Irsay_on_2017_Draft_Approach/da8ce15d-ad32-4872-951d-814dbb3958d3

 

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/NFL_Annual_Meetings_Irsay_On_Luck_Draft_Pagano_/a31579f3-4b8a-4d98-8404-1ad9c7413e06

[aaron11]

6 minutes ago, bababooey said:

We beat a SB champ, AFC champ, and NFC runner up in the same month in Luck's second year. I know when Reggie got hurt we lost our way and got smoked by teams like the Rams, Cards, and Bengals, but since then we get stomped by good teams like the Steelers, Pats, and Cowboys and lose to the teams we should be beating.

we also swept the south in 2013 when no other team was better than 7-9

 

texans were 2-14, jags were 4-12. 

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I don't think you are wrong at all.  From the scouts all the way up to the owner do have a collective say so in making the big board. Ultimately the GM is the one who gets the credit or the blame regardless of it was 'his' pick. It's easy for the fans to use hind sight to judge what players should have been picked and point the finger at the GM when it misses.

To hear some of the exaggeration of how bad Grigson was is completely over looking the few good picks he did make. The fan base of the Colts are so used to have winning seasons that when a 8-8 season happens some think it's the end of the world. This mentality of firing everybody from the water boy's all the way up to the GM is a knee jerk reaction that is said out of frustration without thinking past the consequences of those actions.

 

Agreed.

 

I'm tired of talking about Grigson.  He's old news.

 

In the past and in the future, Irsay and the HC are both in the war room every draft no matter who the GM is, and to believe they have no input...or that any GM can simply bully everybody else in the room....is complete nonsense.

 

Personnel decisions are more of a consensus than what is typically discussed, IMO.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

27 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

What he actually wrote was: They're drafting a running back earlier than later from what I can tell. That was my interpretation.

 Irsay himself said they want a RB in later rounds. 

[richard pallo]

After listening to the Jim Irsay interview trading back is the most likely scenario. They certainly want to do it.  Trading out of the 1st. rd would also fit the definition of trading back.  He made the point of singling out three position groups; ER, CB, RB. as definite needs he would like to address in the draft.  It is common knowledge the draft is deep in those position groups.  He also mentioned the draft itself will determine how we draft.  That is how players come off the board.  So I would assume BPA could fit any one of those groups and who is already gone will determine our pick.  The further we trade back increases the likelihood higher rated players will be gone and increases the chances any one of those areas he mentioned could be our first pick. What round or position  our 1st. pick is in is yet to be determined.  JMO. 

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, Majin Vegeta said:

 Irsay himself said they want a RB in later rounds. 

ballard said they are going strictly bpa.  we cant pigeon hole a position here

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/colts-gm-ballard-on-the-draft-we-will-take-the-best-player/

[Coltfreak]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

There was a different DC,  Monachino for Manusky.

 

But Chudzinski has been the OC for roughly the 2nd half of the 2015 season.   

 

And both were Pagano's call,  so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?

 

Can you elaborate?

 

You asked what changed from the the team that was so successful.   New DC adn new OC were changes. 

Wasn't blaming Pagano, just saying that it will take a while to get a new system down.

 

The team was built for Pep's offense....  I didnt  like Chud trying to run his offense with a team not built for it.  Not to say it wont work with the right personnel in the future,   just a complete different philosophy than Pep.

And there was probably some changes with the new DC.

 

Again not blaming, just saying those were changes

[KB]

I guarantee the ones that are happy irsay said we are drafting a rb later are the ones that will complain that we chose a suckie rb and complain that we can't run the ball with consistency next year.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

His in-game management is not good.  I am not sure of the best way to describe it - I think he gets anxious and rushes things unnecessarily.  

 

Case in point - another bad time out he called in the Bears game in October of last year.  I don't know this was ever discussed because it did not impact the outcome of the game.  Colts were driving at the end of the half down by the Bears' goal line.  They ran a play (don't recall if it was a run or pass) but it was stopped and the clock was still running.  He called a timeout with about 15 seconds left in the half and AV kicks a field goal.

 

 

 

I agree with the anxiousness.  I think it stems from two things.

 

1. He is a modern defensive coach...always trying to get the right player on the field for the right situation.  Unlike Dungy, who ran the same defense with the same people in all situations...with the exception of wanting some heavier guys in on short yardage situation....Pagano seems to be the type who tries to micromanage who is on the field at any given point based on what the down and distance is.  

 

Dungy hardly ever blitzed, and we typically played the same back end coverage.  Under Pagano, blitzes and coverages can change and he feels he needs to constantly substitute players in order to match the defensive calls.

 

2.  He simply is not that quick and needs time to figure out the proper course of action.  

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

ballard said they are going strictly bpa.  we cant pigeon hole a position here

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/colts-gm-ballard-on-the-draft-we-will-take-the-best-player/

Imo there's a 0% chance we take a running back. And irsays comments cement it for me. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

4 minutes ago, KB said:

I guarantee the ones that are happy irsay said we are drafting a rb later are the ones that will complain that we chose a suckie rb and complain that we can't run the ball with consistency next year.

Well we still have Frank Gore so I think everything will be fine. 

[KB]

4 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Well we still have Frank Gore so I think everything will be fine. 

Father time will catch Frank eventually. He's not a big yardage runner anymore. The best choice I see for us in the later rounds is marlon mack due to his speed. Gore, turbin, mack would actually compliment each other fairly well, but mack and any late Rd RB is a gamble to hope they turn out well. It's only went well for us recently in Vick Ballard. Others not so much.

 

P.S. I'm not an advocate for taking a rb in the first. I'm for bpa and there's to much defensive talent for cook to be bpa. He ran behind a good OL in college and wouldn't have that hear. He is more likely to bust here than succeed.

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, KB said:

Father time will catch Frank eventually. He's not a big yardage runner anymore. The best choice I see for us in the later rounds is marlon mack due to his speed. Gore, turbin, mack would actually compliment each other fairly well, but mack and any late Rd RB is a gamble to hope they turn out well. It's only went well for us recently in Vick Ballard. Others not so much.

 

P.S. I'm not an advocate for taking a rb in the first. I'm for bpa and there's to much defensive talent for cook to be bpa. He ran behind a good OL in college and wouldn't have that hear. He is more likely to bust here than succeed.

i have cooled on cook a little myself, but i hope we dont wait until super late to grab one either

 

also, its not just running backs.  we have not had much success with any late round picks recently. haeg is the best we have done in years 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

11 minutes ago, KB said:

I guarantee the ones that are happy irsay said we are drafting a rb later are the ones that will complain that we chose a suckie rb and complain that we can't run the ball with consistency next year.

 

It's almost like we've already seen that scenario play out before haha.

[KB]

5 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i have cooled on cook a little myself, but i hope we dont wait until super late to grab one either

 

also, its not just running backs.  we have not had much success with any late round picks recently. haeg is the best we have done in years 

I actually think we've done ok in the later rounds. I'm the minority but I still think Good was a good pick at the second to last pick. Those guys usually just chill on the practice squad and then get moved to another team. A backup is good value for that. We also got perry, Geathers, and ridgeway in the later rounds. I'm counting four as a later obviously

[DaColts85]

I would wait on drafting a RB altogether this year and shot for next year.  If he wants to take the load off of Luck like he said, you have little to no guarantee with late round RB's.  Build a solid D and go for someone next year.  Barkley is a stud, plus there are many more available. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

10 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Well we still have Frank Gore so I think everything will be fine. 

 

I like Gore, but we desperately need some youth at the RB position. Frank's a hard-nosed runner that'll fight for the tough yards, but he doesn't possess the speed to get past the 2nd level without being met by 4 or 5 defenders, and we could definitely use that type of dynamic running. At this point, Frank's fine for situational downs and short yardage, but we need someone who can break a big run here and there to keep defenses on their heels. I just don't think that's in Frank's repertoire anymore.

[aaron11]

3 minutes ago, KB said:

I actually think we've done ok in the later rounds. I'm the minority but I still think Good was a good pick at the second to last pick. Those guys usually just chill on the practice squad and then get moved to another team. A backup is good value for that. We also got perry, Geathers, and ridgeway in the later rounds. I'm counting four as a later obviously

geathers has potential to be a really good player if he can stay healthy.  parry and ridgeway, meh but they are still young i guess

 

 

 

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

5 minutes ago, KB said:

I actually think we've done ok in the later rounds. I'm the minority but I still think Good was a good pick at the second to last pick. Those guys usually just chill on the practice squad and then get moved to another team. A backup is good value for that. We also got perry, Geathers, and ridgeway in the later rounds. I'm counting four as a later obviously

 

By that metric, throw Joe Haeg Vick Ballard in there as well. Until he had his bout with injuries, Ballard looked to be an absolute steal in the 2012 draft.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

23 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I like Gore, but we desperately need some youth at the RB position. Frank's a hard-nosed runner that'll fight for the tough yards, but he doesn't possess the speed to get past the 2nd level without being met by 4 or 5 defenders, and we could definitely use that type of dynamic running. At this point, Frank's fine for situational downs and short yardage, but we need someone who can break a big run here and there to keep defenses on their heels. I just don't think that's in Frank's repertoire anymore.

I'm all for getting a RB this draft, just not in the early rounds.