Have we ever been a 4-3 Defense?

[Shadow_Creek]

Correct me if i'm wrong. i know we ran a Tampa 2 for a long period of time. But wasn't sure if we ever ran a full fledged 4-3

[21isSuperman]

4-3 refers to the alignment of the front 7, 4 down linemen and 3 linebackers.  Tampa 2 and 4-3 aren't mutually exclusive.  What we had during those Tampa 2 years was a 4-3

[Shadow_Creek]

3 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

4-3 refers to the alignment of the front 7, 4 down linemen and 3 linebackers.  Tampa 2 and 4-3 aren't mutually exclusive.  What we had during those Tampa 2 years was a 4-3

I see. so do the Seahawks and patriots run a Tampa 2?

[21isSuperman]

6 minutes ago, Shadow_Creek said:

I see. so do the Seahawks and patriots run a Tampa 2?

The Patriots tend to change their system on a weekly basis.  It's pretty incredible.  Under Belichick, they've run a 4-3 and a 3-4.

 

The Seahawks run a 4-3 (remember, that's the DL and LB) and cover 3.  That means the two corners and one safety each cover a deep 1/3rd of the field.

 

 

If you notice, there are 4 down linemen and 3 linebackers (the guy who looks like the 4th linebacker is safety Kam Chancellor), and the remaining players are defensive backs.  Of course, this is just their base defense.  Any defensive coordinator or head coach worth his weight in salt knows to vary things up.

 

During the Dungy years, the Colts ran primarily a Tampa 2.

 

 

They were still a 4-3 because they had 4 down linemen and 3 linebackers, but the two safeties would each cover a deep half of the field, thus the term Tampa 2.  This is in contrast to the Seahawks who have the cover 3.  Both Seattle and Dungy's Colts were/are 4-3.

 

To make it clearer, the reason it's called Tampa 2 vs. Seattle's defense being called cover 3 is simply because the defense became very popular in Tampa Bay.  It's a cover 2 defense, but is commonly referred to as Tampa 2.

[will426]

15 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

The Patriots tend to change their system on a weekly basis.  It's pretty incredible.  Under Belichick, they've run a 4-3 and a 3-4.

 

The Seahawks run a 4-3 (remember, that's the DL and LB) and cover 3.  That means the two corners and one safety each cover a deep 1/3rd of the field.

 

 

If you notice, there are 4 down linemen and 3 linebackers (the guy who looks like the 4th linebacker is safety Kam Chancellor), and the remaining players are defensive backs.  Of course, this is just their base defense.  Any defensive coordinator or head coach worth his weight in salt knows to vary things up.

 

During the Dungy years, the Colts ran primarily a Tampa 2.

 

 

They were still a 4-3 because they had 4 down linemen and 3 linebackers, but the two safeties would each cover a deep half of the field, thus the term Tampa 2.  This is in contrast to the Seahawks who have the cover 3.  Both Seattle and Dungy's Colts were/are 4-3.

 

To make it clearer, the reason it's called Tampa 2 vs. Seattle's defense being called cover 3 is simply because the defense became very popular in Tampa Bay.  It's a cover 2 defense, but is commonly referred to as Tampa 2.

Nice put as always brother supe 

[chad72]

Pagano ran several 4 man fronts with the Ravens and we have run 4 man fronts recently as well. That is why our current Colts' D is called a hybrid and not a pure 3-4 or 4-3.

 

[Jason_]

6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Pagano ran several 4 man fronts with the Ravens and we have run 4 man fronts recently as well. That is why our current Colts' D is called a hybrid and not a pure 3-4 or 4-3.

 

 

 

actually that's not the reason the colts front was considered a hybrid defense. every team in the league runs combinations of 3 and 4 man fronts.  the Colts defense was  a hybrid the first 3 years meaning the front 7 was a hybrid of 1 and 2 gap.  the strong side OLB, DE (5 tech) and NT would 2-gap while the weak side DT (3 tech) and OLB would 1 gap.  that's why we had both DEs and DTs listed on the roster.  If you look at the depth chart of the steelers, they have DEs and NTs listed on the depth chart but no DTs because their defense doesn't use a 3 tech in their base front. 

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Actually that's not the reason the colts front was considered a hybrid defense. every team in the league runs combinations of 3 and 4 man fronts.  the Colts defense was  a hybrid the first 3 years meaning the front 7 was a hybrid of 1 and 2 gap.  the strong side OLB, DE (5 tech) and NT would 2-gap while the weak side DT (3 tech) and OLB would 1 gap.  that's why we had both DEs and DTs listed on the roster.  If you look at the depth chart of the steelers, they have DEs and NTs listed on the depth chart but no DTs because their defense doesn't use a 3 tech in their base front. 

 

Thanks, I stand corrected.   Having said that, 4 man fronts do require a different gapping role for DL a lot of the time, so by switching fronts, the gapping roles change too a lot. 

 

Do we still do 2-gapping now that we have invested in smaller DL to shoot the gaps?

[ColtsBlueFL]

One other thing to expand on here.  You can play zone or even man in Cover Two in a 3-4 D  (3-4 Cover 2 man under). There are nuance difference between Zone Cover 2 and the Tampa 2, that Dungy got (stole from?) Chuck Noll and Bud Carson while in his playing days as a DB for the Steelers in the Steel Curtain (which is THE original Zone Cover Two).  A main alteration was to have the Mike (MLB) cover the TE or slot receiver down the middle seam, thus morphing into a cover 3.  In order to do that, you have to have an athletic middle backer that can cover receivers down the field as well as stuff running lanes and pursue sideline to sideline.

 

The Steelers had that in Jack Lambert, and Bud Carsonl used him that way at times.  Thus the idea for refinement to the Steel Curtain cover two by Dungy and Monte Kiffin. At Mike, The Bucs had Shelton Quarles, and the Bears Brian Urlacher, etc... The Tampa 2 was originally designed to slow down Bill Walsh's West Coast offenses, and the 3-4 man under cover 2 is designed to to slow the spread type teams (like Brady and the Pats).

[BR-549]

4 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

One other thing to expand on here.  You can play zone or even man in Cover Two in a 3-4 D  (3-4 Cover 2 man under). There are nuance difference between Zone Cover 2 and the Tampa 2, that Dungy got (stole from?) Chuck Noll and Bud Carson while in his playing days as a DB for the Steelers in the Steel Curtain (which is THE original Zone Cover Two).  A main alteration was to have the Mike (MLB) cover the TE or slot receiver down the middle seam, thus morphing into a cover 3.  In order to do that, you have to have an athletic middle backer that can cover receivers down the field as well as stuff running lanes and pursue sideline to sideline.

 

The Steelers had that in Jack Lambert, and Bud Carsonl used him that way at times.  Thus the idea for refinement to the Steel Curtain cover two by Dungy and Monte Kiffin. At Mike, The Bucs had Shelton Quarles, and the Bears Brian Urlacher, etc... The Tampa 2 was originally designed to slow down Bill Walsh's West Coast offenses, and the 3-4 man under cover 2 is designed to to slow the spread type teams (like Brady and the Pats).

Nice job of explaining and giving examples.  

[Synthetic]

They may have ran it in the 90's, perhaps an older fan may know. 

[Coffeedrinker]

Under Mora and Fangio the Colts ran zone blitz D from a 4-3 front which was a huge mistake IMO, a zone blitz type D needs to be run from a 3-4 front.  From the 4-3 it was too easy to diagnose where the blitz was going to be coming from.

The late 90s Colts under Marchibroada/Infante/Jim Johnson(DC) ran a traditional 4-3 front and if I remember correctly ran more man coverage with the CBs.

 

Of course Dungy ran a 4-3 with the Tampa 2.

 

Caldwell did the same, ran a 4-3 front.

 

So from 1992 until 2012 the Colts were primarily ran a 4-3 front.

 

 

 

 

[OffensivelyPC]

Just to add on, we ran the more "traditional" 4-3 defense before Pagano came in. We dont run the hybrid type 4-3 defense.