Iinside scout look at player evaluation and grade by position

[ColtsBlueFL]

I know this is long, but I'm posting it for those with detailed attention and thoughts on this type of matter.

 

We all know every team has scouts that work all year evaluating college players while their employer is in the midst of an NFL season.  They judge in person and on film games in their area. They have detailed criteria to evaluate by.  Then they come up with their 'vertical board'.  It is interesting to me that these boards change, notably because of need, but also scheme/skill set.  I put together this QB list, as it shows interesting occurrences. Notably, in this seasons QB list, there are NO round 1 grade QB's.  Yet, we absolutely know at least a couple and quite possible, a few, QB's come off the board in round come draft day.  Here is a scouts look at this years QB class, and their ranking/placement (I've removed much detail to get to the meat)

 

QB
Early 2nd Round Value
1. (JR) DESHAUN WATSON—CLEMSON
2. (JR) MITCH TRUBISKY-NORTH CAROLINA
3. (rsSO) DESHONE KIZER–NOTRE DAME
Mid to Late 2nd Round Value
4. (JR) PATRICK MAHOMES–TEXAS
Has a chance to make and Contribute
3rd Round Value
5. DAVIS WEBB–CALIFORNIA
6. NATHAN PETERMAN–PITTSBURGH
7. CHAD KELLY–OLE MISS (C)
4th Round Value
8. (JR) BRAD KAAYA—MIAMI-FL
Potential back up Contributor/Roster Player
5th to 6th Round Value
9. (JR) JARROD EVANS–VIRGINIA TECH
10.JOSHUA DOBBS–TENNESSEE
7th Round to Priority Free Agent Value
11. TREVOR KNIGHT–TEXAS A&M
12. CJ BEATHARD—IOWA
13. SETH RUSSELL–BAYLOR
14. MITCH LEIDNER–MINNESOTA
15. ANTONIO PIPKEN–TIFFIN
16. SEFO LIUFAU–COLORADO
17. GUNNER KIEL–CINCINNATI
18. COOPER RUSH–CENTRAL MICHIGAN
Worth a Camp tryout
Priority Free agent
19. BART HOUSTON–WISCONSIN
20. WES LUNT–ILLINOIS
21. ALEK TORGERSEN–PENNSYLVANIA
22. BRADY GUSTAFSON–MONTANA
4.5 = Camp Body
23. ZACH TERRELL–WESTERN MICHIGAN
24. GARRETT FUGATE–CENTRAL MISSOURI STATE
25. PATRICK TOWLES–BOSTON COLLEGE
26. JORDAN WEST–EASTERN WASHINGTON

 

Now, before it is over, I predict=>15 of these guys will get their names called by the end of the draft.  Also, there are no round 1 grade QB's according to this scout, but it is apparent a few might well be taken in round 1.  So my question is, do the have nots (no franchise QB) feel pressure to elevate players well above their grade and target/take them in the draft?  How do you feel this ranking is?

 

Ranking criteria- 

QB criteria-

MATCHUP = Rhythm, timing that features a layered passing game with emphasis on short routes.
VERTICAL = Big, downfield passes set up with play action.
Physical traits, measurables

MENTAL AWARENESS – intelligence, field vision—seeing the field, understanding of coverage, reading defenses, judgment in decision making and avoidance of forcing the ball, poise under game and rush pressure, anticipation of when receivers will come open, locating secondary and tertiary receivers,
COMPETITIVENESS – physical and mental toughness, level of intensity, clutch skills, POISE–how he handles adverse conditions. Leadership, confidence. High character guys succeed here, Low character guys struggle here. High Work ethic—want self starters
ACCURACY – hitting target short, medium & long without making receivers work, ability to deliver catchable ball, touch when he needs it, leading a receiver on deep ball, velocity, timing.
RELEASE TYPE & QUICKNESS– type of release and location of release point, quickness from throwing point to release. RELEASE TIMES 3 yards= 1.5, 5 yards = 2.1, 7yards= 3.1 and 9 yards=3.9.
ARM STRENGTH – velocity on ball when needed, deep ball with little effort, delivery falling away from pressure with only his arm, velocity on out route, tightness of spiral.
BODY SIZE AND STRENGTH – does he meet height, weight, strength requirements for position and is he strong enough to take punishment and come back. Does he have the hand size and body strength to protect the ball?
PRODUCTION – do numbers back up his grade—accuracy % over completion %. INT vs TD ratio, result of QB passing chart on film grade. Percentage of correct LOS adjustments and percentage of correct post snap adjustments. Does he protect the ball first before trying to make a big play? Is he a technique and fundamental stickler for details?
QB POSITION SPECIFICS:

(1) SPEED – rollouts and sprints, stride at throwing point, natural running ability, and ability to avoid the rush and his scrambling ability.
(2) ATHLETIC ABILITY – quickness, agility, balance, cod, body flexibility, run ability, feel and physical adjust to pocket pressure,
(3) BALL MECHANICS – ball handling—ability to sell play action, setup quickness, delivery quickness, type of release, quickness from throwing point to release.
(4) SETUP QUICKNESS – quickness away from center, speed at throwing point, body control to throw on move, effectiveness on rollouts and sprints, foot quickness and stride at throwing point. DROP SET UP TIMES: 3 yards = .76 5 yards = 1.00 7 yards = 1.30 9 yards = 1.75
(5) AVOID SKILLS & SCRAMBLING ABILITY – natural running ability, avoid rush skills, feel and sense for location of pocket pressure.

SEQUENCIAL ORDER OF EVALUATING A QB ON A PLAY:

DROP
SET
JUDGEMENT
POISE
LOCATE #2
AVOID, ESCAPE, SCRAMBLE
ROLL RIGHT OR LEFT
TIMING
RELEASE QUICKNESS
ACCURACY SHORT, MEDIUM OR LONG
FOLLOW THROUGH
TOUCH ON SCREENS AND SWINGS
ARM STRENGTH AND ZIP ON SHORT OR DEEP OUTS
TIMING, TOUCH, VELOCITY, ACCURACY ON GO, POST OR CORNER ROUTES

 

So these are the items evaluated and list above is final grade/rank for QB's.  Thoughts?

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Wow, this is a science. That is all my small town brain can comprehend from this. 

[Smonroe]

Still digesting it - but who is the scout?

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 3/24/2017 at 10:42 AM, Smonroe said:

Still digesting it - but who is the scout?

 

Well, I'm not going to reveal him just yet...  but a hint is that he was hired in the early 1990's by Bill Belichick of the Browns...

 

I will say it is NOT-

 

Pat Kirwan, Chris Mattura, Dan Schwab, or Bill Roos. (or anyone else at RFN)

 

People that know me understand I love these guys and their thoughts and teaching.

 

This particular guy has a business as a scouting consultant for NFL teams, and I do use a portion of my discretionary income towards him for tidbits of his work, which is overflowing voluminous for my needs...  LOL!  I check other sites sparingly, and rely on  this guy and Real Football Network guys for most of my nfo.  I find it to be credible and reliable backed by experience 'inside the business'

 

(as well as Greg Cosell, and Gil Brandt).

 

I also read the more studious/skeptical members here who review their own tape (often coaches tape, or all 22) to see if they spot things that the others did not, or wish not to reveal publicly.

 

I will expose him soon.

[SP_21]

Scouts don't feel pressure to give QBs higher grades because of a thing called "positional value". 

 

For example: Qb is the most important position so it's positional value would be 10/10. Whereas a kicker could have a 2/10. 

[NFLfan]

Thanks for sharing this. 

 

Based on this scout's rankings, Chad Kelly will be a very good value pick if in fact he falls to the late rounds, as projected. 

 

11 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

CHAD KELLY–OLE MISS (C)

 

What does the "C" stand for?

[ColtsBlueFL]

27 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

11 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

CHAD KELLY–OLE MISS (C)

 

What does the "C" stand for?

 

C= CHARACTER Player with Character problems

 

And this scout has been noted for leeway for players in this regard, typically.

[Superman]

11 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

So my question is, do the have nots (no franchise QB) feel pressure to elevate players well above their grade and target/take them in the draft? 

 

Absolutely. It's the one position on which teams reach every year. Tebow, Manziel, Geno Smith, Weeden, Ponder, etc., etc., so many QBs who have no business in the top 50, going in the first or early second round. And it's because a) you have to have good QBing, bottom line, and b) good QBs typically don't come available in the league, and if they do, there's a significant flaw or shortcoming. (I think edge rusher is going that way lately.) 

 

Quote

PRODUCTION – do numbers back up his grade—accuracy % over completion %. INT vs TD ratio, result of QB passing chart on film grade. 

 

 

Number of starts is important. Parcells wants at least 30 starts and 23 wins; I'm not as rigid, I'm okay with a two year starter. But I want to be able to see a player get better from one year to the next, as the starter. 

[Superman]

11 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

ARM STRENGTH – velocity on ball when needed, deep ball with little effort, delivery falling away from pressure with only his arm, velocity on out route, tightness of spiral.

 

Another thing here: one of the toughest routes to throw well, and it's a distance throw, even if it's just ten yards downfield. Mess up, and it's six the other way. If a QB can nail this throw consistently, you know he has timing, enough arm strength (maybe not a rocket, but you can't be a noodle arm and throw this route well), good footwork and setup (you have to open your hips, turn your feet, and transfer weight, all while keeping your arm slot tight).... and CONFIDENCE. Again, mess up, and it's a disaster. A QB who frequently puts the ball out of bounds isn't confident in his ability to make this throw, and maybe lacks mental toughness.

 

Another thing is just the fundamentals of setting up in the pocket, staying light on your feet, and transferring weight back to front when delivering the ball. I've noticed that a high percentage of inaccurate throws -- especially high or low balls -- are the result of QBs planting their feet rather than staying light and transferring weight. When Cam Newton misses a throw, it's most likely that his feet weren't right.

[BlueTruth]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Another thing here: one of the toughest routes to throw well, and it's a distance throw, even if it's just ten yards downfield. Mess up, and it's six the other way. If a QB can nail this throw consistently, you know he has timing, enough arm strength (maybe not a rocket, but you can't be a noodle arm and throw this route well), good footwork and setup (you have to open your hips, turn your feet, and transfer weight, all while keeping your arm slot tight).... and CONFIDENCE. Again, mess up, and it's a disaster. A QB who frequently puts the ball out of bounds isn't confident in his ability to make this throw, and maybe lacks mental toughness.

 

Another thing is just the fundamentals of setting up in the pocket, staying light on your feet, and transferring weight back to front when delivering the ball. "I've noticed that a high percentage of inaccurate throws -- especially high or low balls -- are the result of QBs planting their feet rather than staying light and transferring weight." When Cam Newton misses a throw, it's most likely that his feet weren't right.

 

True, true. In general, in most sports, how well a player uses their feet determines A LOT of how well they can play. Known for unbelievable footwork, Kobe Bryant cited his "feet" as the reason he separated himself from others. He modeled his feet after Clyde 'the Glide" Drexler in order to get a leg up on the Defenses he faced.

 

Because Balance is so important to Throwing the ball, Quarterbacks must have good feet to set a proper throwing platform. GREAT OBSERVATION!!

[BlueTruth]

Just now, BlueTruth said:

 

True, true. In general, in most sports, how well a player uses their feet determines A LOT of how well they can play. Known for unbelievable footwork, Kobe Bryant cited his "feet" as the reason he separated himself from others. He modeled his feet after Clyde 'the Glide" Drexler in order to get a leg up on the Defenses he faced.

 

Because Balance is so important to Throwing the ball, Quarterbacks must have good feet to set a proper throwing platform. GREAT OBSERVATION!!

http://mikeleebasketball.com/what-separates-kobe-bryantperfect-feet/

[Defjamz26]

4 hours ago, BlueTruth said:

 

True, true. In general, in most sports, how well a player uses their feet determines A LOT of how well they can play. Known for unbelievable footwork, Kobe Bryant cited his "feet" as the reason he separated himself from others. He modeled his feet after Clyde 'the Glide" Drexler in order to get a leg up on the Defenses he faced.

 

Because Balance is so important to Throwing the ball, Quarterbacks must have good feet to set a proper throwing platform. GREAT OBSERVATION!!

And one of the biggest knocks on Geno coming out that you saw on tape was that his footwork was absolutely terrible. People knew he would struggle with accuracy in the NFL and they were right. Bunch of turnovers and missed throws when he was the starter.

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 3/24/2017 at 10:42 AM, Smonroe said:

Still digesting it - but who is the scout?

 

https://landryfootball.com/

 

Chris Landry

[NewColtsFan]

On 3/24/2017 at 7:31 AM, Mr Clueless said:

Wow, this is a science. That is all my small town brain can comprehend from this. 

 

Question for you....      serious question!

 

Where did you find your emoticon?     I don't have it as an option anymore,   it's no longer in the cue when you select options.       It's one of my favorites but I don't see it.

 

Where did you find this???

 

Inquiring minds want to know!!!!

 

Many thanks.....

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

19 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Question for you....      serious question!

 

Where did you find your emoticon?     I don't have it as an option anymore,   it's no longer in the cue when you select options.       It's one of my favorites but I don't see it.

 

Where did you find this???

 

Inquiring minds want to know!!!!

 

Many thanks.....

 

Hi....

 

In the top row of icons it is the number six icon. Don't really know how to help you beyond that, LOL. Wonder why it is missing for you.