jshipp23

Colts need to make a trade for Malcom Butler or Richard Sherman..

153 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I don't think anyone thinks it's "win now," but even as bad as the roster has been, they've only been 1 game away from winning the division these past 2 years. While most realize we likely won't be competing for a Super Bowl, there's still room for some improvement, and with even a halfway reliable defense, we should at the very least be able to win the South. Once in the playoffs, anything can happen.

 

Having said that, I think trading for Sherman or Butler would be foolish.

Even if it means a real shot at the Super Bowl? We need a good draft and to avoid catastrophic injuries, but I dont think we a sooo far away like some do..I think we keep investing in defense, sign Zach Brown already, and have a good defensive draft we are right there.Falcons were 8-8 2 yrs ago and gave away the Super Bowl..I think we have a championship caliber qb and offense, if we create a 15-20 ranked defense with fa and draft we r in the conversation...This 2 or 3 yrs away b.s.is nonsense..Most rosters turn over in 4 or 5 years in nfl anyways, this ain't baseball..If u got an elite QB you always should go all in bet on black and hope to catch lightening in a bottle..Luck ain't getting younger, give him a chance with a decent defense and he'll get it done if he doesnt have to score 35 to win and risk life and limb to make a play to win...Give him a defense a running game and chance to play with a LEAD...

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JShipp ain't serious with all this stuff.  Maybe the wanting of King which he's maintained the whole offseason.   Shipp usually shows up when the forum starts to get a lull and then he sparks a conversation.   Shipp is always great for getting some talk going.   That's why I love you bro!

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2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Well I keep seeing this go all out crap like we are close or something welse are not and just cause we were one game out of our crappy division do sent mean we are close the other teams in the playoffs will stomp a mud hole in us plus all 3 division rivals have improved even more since last year even the Texans cause they traded Brock and will prolly get Romo 

LETS not try to do whatever it takes to win and just suck...maybe 5 yrs down the road if we hit on a ton of picks we might win a super bowl..i despise this loser no chance cowardly mentality..with Luck it should be super bowl or bust every year till he hangs it up..CHRIS BALLARD I KNOW YOU ARE READING THIS! Show these fools how its done...

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1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Well I keep seeing this go all out crap like we are close or something welse are not and just cause we were one game out of our crappy division do sent mean we are close the other teams in the playoffs will stomp a mud hole in us plus all 3 division rivals have improved even more since last year even the Texans cause they traded Brock and will prolly get Romo 

 

I just don't see the whole "all division rivals have gotten better" theory. Jags did the same thing they do every year, so I'll expect similar results, 3-6 wins and a top 5 draft pick. The Texans literally don't have a QB. Titans look decent, but they have yet to get a victory over an Andrew Luck led Colts team. Even with the roster being blown up on the defensive side of the ball, I still like Indy's chances to win the division.

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6 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Even if it means a real shot at the Super Bowl? We need a good draft and to avoid catastrophic injuries, but I dont think we a sooo far away like some do..I think we keep investing in defense, sign Zach Brown already, and have a good defensive draft we are right there.Falcons were 8-8 2 yrs ago and gave away the Super Bowl..I think we have a championship caliber qb and offense, if we create a 15-20 ranked defense with fa and draft we r in the conversation...This 2 or 3 yrs away b.s.is nonsense..Most rosters turn over in 4 or 5 years in nfl anyways, this ain't baseball..If u got an elite QB you always should go all in bet on black and hope to catch lightening in a bottle..Luck ain't getting younger, give him a chance with a decent defense and he'll get it done if he doesnt have to score 35 to win and risk life and limb to make a play to win...Give him a defense a running game and chance to play with a LEAD...

 

Having a 15-20 ranked defense this year is feasible, and would be a HUGE improvement, but it still isn't good enough to go on the road in January and win playoff games vs teams like New England, Pittsburgh, or Oakland. I even think they'd struggle to win a playoff game in Denver without an elite defense to help take some of the pressure off the offense.

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4 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Having a 15-20 ranked defense this year is feasible, and would be a HUGE improvement, but it still isn't good enough to go on the road in January and win playoff games vs teams like New England, Pittsburgh, or Oakland. I even think they'd struggle to win a playoff game in Denver without an elite defense to help take some of the pressure off the offense.

Why we need to go 12-4 which is possible with our schedule...Hopefully this new wr coach turns Hilton into the monster he can be..Remember Reggie Wayne wasn't anything special his first 2 years then it clicked!! Im high on this team..this is an extremely deep draft, if we sign brown and jenkins in free agency and hit the draft we could be this years Falcons..

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12 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

LETS not try to do whatever it takes to win and just suck...maybe 5 yrs down the road if we hit on a ton of picks we might win a super bowl..i despise this loser no chance cowardly mentality..with Luck it should be super bowl or bust every year till he hangs it up..CHRIS BALLARD I KNOW YOU ARE READING THIS! Show these fools how its done...

No he's showing you how it's done it's the complete opposite of what you woukd do you would screw us all 

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13 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I just don't see the whole "all division rivals have gotten better" theory. Jags did the same thing they do every year, so I'll expect similar results, 3-6 wins and a top 5 draft pick. The Texans literally don't have a QB. Titans look decent, but they have yet to get a victory over an Andrew Luck led Colts team. Even with the roster being blown up on the defensive side of the ball, I still like Indy's chances to win the division.

The Jags getting Tom Coughlin will help plus Doug Marrone was a pretty good coach with a terrible Bill's team he was kicking the hell out of us last game of the season 

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3 hours ago, pgt_rob said:

I think you mean Malcom Butler. Butler has a 1st round tender, correct? So we give up a 1st. Sherman doesn't really fit our man to man scheme. He's more zone with some outstanding safety's to help him. So I don't know how well this would go for us.

Rather than give up our first witch we need I would just use the pick on a CB in this secondary deep draft.

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3 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Why we need to go 12-4 which is possible with our schedule...Hopefully this new wr coach turns Hilton into the monster he can be..Remember Reggie Wayne wasn't anything special his first 2 years then it clicked!! Im high on this team..this is an extremely deep draft, if we sign brown and jenkins in free agency and hit the draft we could be this years Falcons..

 

Hilton is in year 6, he is what he is at this point. Our other WRs are the ones who need to be coached up.

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22 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Even if it means a real shot at the Super Bowl? We need a good draft and to avoid catastrophic injuries, but I dont think we a sooo far away like some do..I think we keep investing in defense, sign Zach Brown already, and have a good defensive draft we are right there.Falcons were 8-8 2 yrs ago and gave away the Super Bowl..I think we have a championship caliber qb and offense, if we create a 15-20 ranked defense with fa and draft we r in the conversation...This 2 or 3 yrs away b.s.is nonsense..Most rosters turn over in 4 or 5 years in nfl anyways, this ain't baseball..If u got an elite QB you always should go all in bet on black and hope to catch lightening in a bottle..Luck ain't getting younger, give him a chance with a decent defense and he'll get it done if he doesnt have to score 35 to win and risk life and limb to make a play to win...Give him a defense a running game and chance to play with a LEAD...

I agree with your statement that Luck isn't getting any younger and we would be hard to beat with the league! Luck wouldn't have to force things and we would be able to use play action even more. But I think the corners in the draft can start and be good their first year. Look at Jalen Ramsey. He was rated very well his first year. I think we will surprise some people if we get a top corner and an ILB in the draft(or Zach Brown). 

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3 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

I think Butler can be had for a 2nd and he is a top 5 cb right now...Sherman possibly could be had for a 3rd or 4th.. New England isn't gonna pay Brown after signing Gilmore and they need picks as they've traded away most of their picks this year..With Brown and Davis we would have the top secondary in the league and give our linebackers time to sack the qb...

 

They extended a first round tender to Brown, the team that signs him will need to give up their 1st. Brown is too small anyways and in my opinion is overrated. I wouldn't waste my time on Sherman either he excels in an off zone scheme that has impeccable safety play. He wouldn't do well in our Defense. Pass on both

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4 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Hilton is in year 6, he is what he is at this point. Our other WRs are the ones who need to be coached up.

I meant dorsett, my fault

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4 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

I agree with your statement that Luck isn't getting any younger and we would be hard to beat with the league! Luck wouldn't have to force things and we would be able to use play action even more. But I think the corners in the draft can start and be good their first year. Look at Jalen Ramsey. He was rated very well his first year. I think we will surprise some people if we get a top corner and an ILB in the draft(or Zach Brown). 

 

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5 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

 

They extended a first round tender to Brown, the team that signs him will need to give up their 1st. Brown is too small anyways and in my opinion is overrated. I wouldn't waste my time on Sherman either he excels in an off zone scheme that has impeccable safety play. He wouldn't do well in our Defense. Pass on both

I agree if it means giving up a 1st, but you wouldn't be stoked giving up a 3rd for Sherman? He is making 11 million a year which is actually low for corners in their second contracts nowadays. 

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Unless we get some edge rushers those cb won't mean anything to this team because they can't cover with no pass rush. Hell the cb's we have now would've look great if we got qb pressure last year. 

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They will see soon enough..most don't truly get we aren't far, we are not talent barren and we have THE GUY IN LUCK for 10 more years..Brady will be gone evwntually, Ryan will b gone, Big Ben gone..We are a dynasty waiting to happen. ..Wish we had someone other than Pagano, but I think we can still do it in spite of him, win for ole Chuck should be the motto..

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Just now, ColtsUrUs said:

Unless we get some edge rushers those cb won't mean anything to this team because they can't cover with no pass rush. Hell the cb's we have now would've look great if we got qb pressure last year. 

Riddick and Watt and Kpassignon and we are good..This is a very possible scenario..Riddick will be a peo bowler inside or outside or both..Watt is gonna be a monster too..

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4 minutes ago, ColtsUrUs said:

Unless we get some edge rushers those cb won't mean anything to this team because they can't cover with no pass rush. Hell the cb's we have now would've look great if we got qb pressure last year. 

They are coming..a rb that can break it for 80 yds and a good young cb( Dwsmond King) will prove he can be a ballhawk cb and shut people up, just watch his tape, sure he would be a great safety too, but those who think he cant excel at cb havent watched his tape..loaded draft coming up, best in a decade talent wise..

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3 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

He has a first round tender,  why would the pats trade him for a second?

 

 Silliness. The tender is meaningless. If they are determined to move him they will take the best offer.

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3 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Silliness. The tender is meaningless. If they are determined to move him they will take the best offer.

We need to have them on the phone..Belichik don't want to go into the draft with no picks..I think a second will do it..

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I could see Richard Sherman having a career arc similar to Nmadi Asomugha's if he ever leaves Seattle. I've always thought Sherman was a great athlete who benefits from being in the right system with great players all around him. I wonder about his ability to be able to lineup against the Antonio Brown's, Dez Bryant's and Odell Beckham's of the world and hold his own one versus one.

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Posted (edited)

51 minutes ago, krunk said:

JShipp ain't serious with all this stuff.  Maybe the wanting of King which he's maintained the whole offseason.   Shipp usually shows up when the forum starts to get a lull and then he sparks a conversation.   Shipp is always great for getting some talk going.   That's why I love you bro!

Oh i want Butler BAAD..He is a Mathis type breed made his name, i dont c him falling off once he gets paid..Came from nothing won a super bowl single handedly went undrafted..I like guys with chips on their shoulders like me..

Edited by jshipp23

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3 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

I could see Richard Sherman having a career arc similar to Nmadi Asomugha's if he ever leaves Seattle. I've always thought Sherman was a great athlete who benefits from being in the right system with great players all around him. I wonder about his ability to be able to lineup against the Antonio Brown's, Dez Bryant's and Odell Beckham's of the world and hold his own one versus one.

Ill take Sherman as a number 2 , he ain't a #1 anymore. .I want Butler he is the real McCoy..Id offer a 4th this yr and a 5th next yr and absorb Sherman's salary...He could be good 2 more years opposite a healthy Davis..Nothing more though..

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50 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

No he's showing you how it's done it's the complete opposite of what you woukd do you would screw us all 

I would be your god..You eould have my bust on ur mantle..

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2 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

King can be a pro bowler at either and instantly come in and replace butler in the slot since he is a safety now...Baker plays moneymaker, safety, slot, blitzinf ilb even...Ive coached my last 3 12 yr old football teams to undefeated seasons...I know more than u believe..I know what works..Same things work in NFL if u get the guys that FIT ur system which BALLARD looks to be doing..Hopefully Zach Brown is in the stable soon as well..

Did you really just compare 12 year old football to the NFL? 

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I wouldn't trade a 2nd this year for M Butler.  Maybe next year's third round pick.  We need for offensive power(RB) and Defense this year.  

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5 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

Did you really just compare 12 year old football to the NFL? 

Yea...

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Just now, jshipp23 said:

Yea...

Usually win 60-3.....

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12 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Oh i want Butler BAAD..He is a Mathis type breed made his name, i dont c him falling off once he gets paid..Came from nothing won a super bowl single handedly went undrafted..I like guys with chips on their shoulders like me..

 

I think you are just entertaining yourself with all this.

 

But if you are serious, Oh Dear God...

 

1) Listen to Ballard.  He wants to get younger (I understand that Butler is not old) but you don't get younger by giving up draft picks.  Speaking of picks - they are infinitely more valuable than ever before because of the cheap labor & cost certainty you get from their rookie contract.  

 

2) A previous point in this thread was about the certainty of Butler vs. the potential bust of high draft pick.  There is no guarantee that Butler thrives outside of New England - it has happened before.  And I don't think NFL GM's make a pick thinking that player may be a bust.  I would expect them rather to trust their scouts and their process so they fully expect that guy to make an impact.

 

3) Butler made a really nice play in the Super Bowl but to say he won it single-handedly is nonsense.

 

4) I have no idea of your circumstances but at the very least you sound desperate for attention with your last line comparing you to an NFL player.  What does "chip on your shoulder" mean exactly - you are a scrappy message board poster?

 

I think an overall Dear God would have sufficed in this response because that is how off-base  I think of the initial post.  But I know you don't like it when I don't expound so I came with many more words to completely disagree with your take.  

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11 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

I think you are just entertaining yourself with all this.

 

But if you are serious, Oh Dear God...

 

1) Listen to Ballard.  He wants to get younger (I understand that Butler is not old) but you don't get younger by giving up draft picks.  Speaking of picks - they are infinitely more valuable than ever before because of the cheap labor & cost certainty you get from their rookie contract.  

 

2) A previous point in this thread was about the certainty of Butler vs. the potential bust of high draft pick.  There is no guarantee that Butler thrives outside of New England - it has happened before.  And I don't think NFL GM's make a pick thinking that player may be a bust.  I would expect them rather to trust their scouts and their process so they fully expect that guy to make an impact.

 

3) Butler made a really nice play in the Super Bowl but to say he won it single-handedly is nonsense.

 

4) I have no idea of your circumstances but at the very least you sound desperate for attention with your last line comparing you to an NFL player.  What does "chip on your shoulder" mean exactly - you are a scrappy message board poster?

 

I think an overall Dear God would have sufficed in this response because that is how off-base  I think of the initial post.  But I know you don't like it when I don't expound so I came with many more words to completely disagree with your take.  

Thanks for expounding..Have you watched Malcom Butler play? What makes you think he is just a system product? I see a bulldog and watched about 8 pats games in he caught my eye more than once...Who is that guy? It was Butler everytime..If u don't think he is good or would drastically help us that's ur perogative...I c a special player who can change our culture defensively. .

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I am sure the Seahawks and Pats are just waiting for teams to call so they can trade them...

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Just now, jshipp23 said:

Thanks for expounding..Have you watched Malcom Butler play? What makes you think he is just a system product? I see a bulldog and watched about 8 pats games in he caught my eye more than once...Who is that guy? It was Butler everytime..If u don't think he is good or would drastically help us that's ur perogative...I c a special player who can change our culture defensively. .

Btw u are partially right the heineken is kickin in, but im serious too brother..Sometimes this forum needs a wake up call..I get periods when im busy and casually view it and its dead, someone has to wake it up..No need to hear superman pretend he is bill polian which seems to happen when I go away..No need for lectures on cap intricacies. ..

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31 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

I would be your god..You eould have my bust on ur mantle..

Yeah cause ballard is following your plan exactly isn't he 

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Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

Yeah cause ballard is following your plan exactly isn't he 

He's doing pretty good actually needs to add jenkins and brown and follow my draft strategy and we r 12-4 minimum next yr...He is watching and will msg me soon..If u don't think Irsay or Ballard or the players watch this board ur fooling yourself...Chris Ballard please offer me a job, ill start at the bottom and work my butt off...My destiny is to be a colt somehow someway..

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20 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Thanks for expounding..Have you watched Malcom Butler play? What makes you think he is just a system product? I see a bulldog and watched about 8 pats games in he caught my eye more than once...Who is that guy? It was Butler everytime..If u don't think he is good or would drastically help us that's ur perogative...I c a special player who can change our culture defensively. .

 

You missed the point entirely.

 

Butler is a good player in NE but that does not necessarily mean he will be good in another situation.  But more to the point, it ain't happening because Ballard would not give up the draft pick required.  The point is ever more moot because he is going to the Saints.

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1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

They will see soon enough..most don't truly get we aren't far, we are not talent barren and we have THE GUY IN LUCK for 10 more years..Brady will be gone evwntually, Ryan will b gone, Big Ben gone..We are a dynasty waiting to happen. ..Wish we had someone other than Pagano, but I think we can still do it in spite of him, win for ole Chuck should be the motto..

I agree with you in saying we are not that far off.   Getting that front 7 fixed is a major step in the right direction.  Don't really mind being young in the secondary. 

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1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

Oh i want Butler BAAD..He is a Mathis type breed made his name, i dont c him falling off once he gets paid..Came from nothing won a super bowl single handedly went undrafted..I like guys with chips on their shoulders like me..

I doubt we go the Butler route.   Doubt we are giving up any draft picks or pick for him.  I was going to get into his size, but Pagano liked Djoun Smith who is similar.   I think they have their eyes on the draft.

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