CR91

Is Andrew the next Dan Marino

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Now let me start by saying this is in no way an insult to the great Dan Marino. He is one the greatest of all time. At one point in Peyton's career, he was even mentioned with Dan, but as we all know Dan never won a championship and with the state of the colts, neither will luck anytime soon. Texans are a qb away from being super bowl contenders and the Titans are on the rise with an up and coming QB and a very good run game. What would be your opinion of Andrew if he never brings Indy a championship?

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21 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Now let me start by saying this is in no way an insult to the great Dan Marino. He is one the greatest of all time. At one point in Peyton's career, he was even mentioned with Dan, but as we all know Dan never won a championship and with the state of the colts, neither will luck anytime soon. Texans are a qb away from being super bowl contenders and the Titans are on the rise with an up and coming QB and a very good run game. What would be your opinion of Andrew if he never brings Indy a championship?

Not his fault if we just put a half decent line in front of him and a top 10 defense on the field then we will be a contender. But that wont be this year maybe not next year but if Ballard drafts good we will be on the rise very soon.

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47 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Now let me start by saying this is in no way an insult to the great Dan Marino. He is one the greatest of all time

 

Okay I read this over again more clearly now. I get what you are saying with the lack of "stuff" around Luck.

 

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12 minutes ago, Jules said:

Dan Marino might be the best there ever was to play the game, rings be damned.

 

I really cringe at times at these kind of threads and also with the old Peyton vs. Luck threads that used to occur more frequently.

 

 

 

I wasnt questioning lucks talent or dans. more about their supporting cast

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Just now, CR91 said:

 

I wasnt questioning lucks talent or dans. more about their supporting cast

 

I know, I clarified that in my post after that. I think though.......it's a really tough thing to think about. Marino had some serious issues on his team for so many years.

 

But, keep in mind we are trying to fix it with a new GM and Andrew still has PLENTY of time left. Manning didn't win anything for a while himself either.

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I often thought the best modern day comparison to Marino was Drew Brees even though Brees won a ring. I mean if you ever watch Saints games in recent years, like REALLY watch them.......they have had some down right embarrassing defenses and even special teams units lately. I think they are desperately trying to fix it this offseason for a final run with Brees for a few years. But, some of the stuff around Brees at times in NO has been atrocious outside of a few big runs they have had.

 

And like NCF said, Luck is still young yet, yes the rookie and youth phase has worn off by now but it's not time to press any panic attack button yet. And Irsay seems to realize this too and changed GMs........

 

People need to relax at times too. We CAN win the division again and sooner then later Brady boy might retire.

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Just now, oldunclemark said:

  I would hope Andrew will be the next Dan Marino

 

Honestly beautiful post there. We live in such a ring obsessed society and we all get so into it that we forget thats not even everything.

 

Dan Marino IMO still might be the real GOAT, yes above Montana or Brady or whomever has the rings. 

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Texans aren't a Qb away from being super bowl contenders stop it lol they're a qb away from going to the playoffs and losing.  TBH everyone in the Afc aren't Super Bowl contenders till they knock the damn pats out the playoffs you do that then you see who's a contender til then AFC is simply Pats

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50 minutes ago, will426 said:

Texans aren't a Qb away from being super bowl contenders stop it lol they're a qb away from going to the playoffs and losing.  

I mean I get what you're saying, but the Texans literally made the playoffs with one of the worst starting quarterbacks of last season. They also won a game. Granted, they lucked out with Carr not being there, but they still won.

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4 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

I mean I get what you're saying, but the Texans literally made the playoffs with one of the worst starting quarterbacks of last season. They also won a game. Granted, they lucked out with Carr not being there, but they still won.

Yeah I know that lol but it's not like they've severely beaten us we've beaten ourselves our playcalling killed us last year vs them  and vs the jags if we went back to Peyton styled offenses more hurry up..a little more control given to luck we'd be a top team period 

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What's so annoying about NE winning all those championships, or simply Brady winning one in his rookie year (or even Wilson his second year), is that fans start thinking a player needs a championship early on in his career otherwise he's not one of the all time greats (or on the flip side, if that player doesn't get one early in his career, the team is "wasting" his talents, as is Indy's case).

 

Peyton never won a ring till his 9th year. Brees didn't get one till his 8th. Doesn't take away their legacy.

 

Heck Micheal Jordan never won a championship until his 7th or 8th year in the NBA (or something like that).

 

Yeah it sucks to see how much the team regressed from being in the AFC championship 3 seasons ago . But even if Luck doesn't win a championship, it won't take away from whatever his legacy is.

 

Also one last thing, Rings are overrated when evaluating a players individual career. Seriously. Trent Dilfer has one. 

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1 hour ago, Jules said:

 

Honestly beautiful post there. We live in such a ring obsessed society and we all get so into it that we forget thats not even everything.

 

Dan Marino IMO still might be the real GOAT, yes above Montana or Brady or whomever has the rings. 

 

I very vividly remember the Marino / Montana debates and despite all the hardware, I was firmly in the Marino camp.   Exact same debate with Manning versus Brady, and again, I was in the camp of the better player, not the really good player that had  (and continues to have) a way better team around him.

 

Honestly, at this point, though, Luck has a ways to go to, imho, to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino, Montana, Manning, and Brady.   :)

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This nonsense of what QB has a ring or doesn't have a ring is hogwash. Rings are won by teams and not QBs. Like Northern Blue said Trent Dilfer has a ring. His team won the super bowl for gods sake. Would Bradshaw have his rings had it not been for the team he was playing on? Would Montana have his? Would Brady have his if not for team play? No. If it fell on just the QB's back Dan Fouts would have a ring or two. This pointing a finger at any QB who has any super bowl rings and thinking it was done by himself is an insult to the team he played on.

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38 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

This nonsense of what QB has a ring or doesn't have a ring is hogwash. Rings are won by teams and not QBs. Like Northern Blue said Trent Dilfer has a ring. His team won the super bowl for gods sake. Would Bradshaw have his rings had it not been for the team he was playing on? Would Montana have his? Would Brady have his if not for team play? No. If it fell on just the QB's back Dan Fouts would have a ring or two. This pointing a finger at any QB who has any super bowl rings and thinking it was done by himself is an insult to the team he played on.

Could not have said it better.

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2 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

  I would hope Andrew will be the next Dan Marino

 

Actually I think Peyton said in 2005 or 2006 (before our SB win) in some interview that when people always said to him "You might go down as the next Dan Marino if you don't get a ring" that Peyton went off on how being compared to Marino was a GOOD thing and how much he loved Marino.

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Dan Marino was a boss. I agree with Jules, he really should be put in more conversation as GOAT. He was better than Montana in my opinion. 

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4 hours ago, Jules said:

Dan Marino might be the best there ever was to play the game, rings be damned.

 

I really cringe at times at these kind of threads and also with the old Peyton vs. Luck threads that used to occur more frequently.

 

 

I have Dan Marino in my Top 10 QB's of all-time despite not having a Ring. Andrew has the potential to be Great and has been Very Good up to this point IMO.

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26 minutes ago, The Peytonator said:

Dan Marino was a boss. I agree with Jules, he really should be put in more conversation as GOAT. He was better than Montana in my opinion. 

 

It's kinda sad actually. I do like Joe Montana the player too but at the same time he and Brady sometimes don't sit right with me as "the GOATS" either. I mean they got the rings but something don't feel right and I been thinking this over since the dust settled too from the last SB. You almost feel BAD for a dude like Marino, it's almost criminal that he don't have a ring.

 

This thread has really big potential to end the wrong way too sadly but I hope not. lmao QB threads on Colts forums can be......:explode:

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3 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

It's kinda sad actually. I do like Joe Montana the player too but at the same time he and Brady sometimes don't sit right with me as "the GOATS" either. I mean they got the rings but something don't feel right and I been thinking this over since the dust settled too from the last SB. You almost feel BAD for a dude like Marino, it's almost criminal that he don't have a ring.

 

This thread has really big potential to end the wrong way too sadly but I hope not. lmao QB threads on Colts forums can be......:explode:

Rings are a huge part of it but Marino is definitely Top 10 ever. It would suck if Andrew never won a Ring though. I hope he wins at least 1.

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Rings are a huge part of it but Marino is definitely Top 10 ever. It would suck if Andrew never won a Ring though. I hope he wins at least 1.

 

I know rings are big, I mean we all want them........the players all play for them. But, man oh man with Marino it don't really even seem FAIR. It's sad almost.

 

As for Luck, time will tell.......we got work to do. lmao 

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Just now, Jules said:

 

I know rings are big, I mean we all want them........the players all play for them. But, man oh man with Marino it don't really even seem FAIR. It's sad almost.

 

As for Luck, time will tell.......we got work to do. lmao 

Yeah there are a lot of QB's unfortunately that haven't won a Ring. Marino being the glaring one but look at Jim Kelly losing in 4 SB's, Dan Fouts was really Great in his hey day too - that Offense he ran with the Chargers was awesome. Warren Moon was Great too!

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You can go the other way and say a guy like Bradshaw has 4 rings but how good was he really?  He had 212 TD's and 210 INT's.  Didn't even throw for 30,000 yards in his 14 year career.  Had a career QB rating of 70.9.  But he was on some REALLY good teams.  If he were say on the Colts those same years would he have any?

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This age old argument just falls among fans and their need to verify their need to put on a pedestal their favorite QB.

When you ask any QB who has won a super bowl their response is always their team they played for.

I don't care who the QB is they will have zero wins without a team built around them including getting a ring.

Payton Manning got his last super bowl win in a season he might have played his worse season of his career but the Bronco's had the team to win.

 

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23 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

You can go the other way and say a guy like Bradshaw has 4 rings but how good was he really?  He had 212 TD's and 210 INT's.  Didn't even throw for 30,000 yards in his 14 year career.  Had a career QB rating of 70.9.  But he was on some REALLY good teams.  If he were say on the Colts those same years would he have any?

Put Peyton Manning on those teams, I doubt the Steelers rarely lose that whole decade. Rings are a factor in ranking QB's but so much more goes into it. Like Stats which you pointed out, MVP's won, and also how dominant the QB was meaning, could you put so and so on any team and could they win? I think Peyton would've won at least 1 Ring on any team period with any Coach.

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15 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

This age old argument just falls among fans and their need to verify their need to put on a pedestal their favorite QB.

When you ask any QB who has won a super bowl their response is always their team they played for.

I don't care who the QB is they will have zero wins without a team built around them including getting a ring.

Payton Manning got his last super bowl win in a season he might have played his worse season of his career but the Bronco's had the team to win.

 

To me the Ring argument is much more valid in Basketball because you only have 5 players on the court and a Basketball player can play Offense and Defense, he has complete control of a game. In Football a QB cant play Defense or SPTeams. He can only control what happens on Offense. So if Peyton goes out and puts up 30 points but his team gives up more than 30 than he loses. When the Broncos lost to the Ravens in 2012, that wasn't Peyton's fault at all, when we lost to the Chargers in 2007 it wasn't his fault either.

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I think Andrew with a good HC and top OL is better than any QB in the game and can be better than anyone to ever do it. No QB has ever had the complete package the way Luck does. Cerebral, incredible arm strength, superior athlete on the same level as Newton, leader, big boy frame. Just based on those facts, he's the most complete QB to ever come out. He can be Dan Marino because you can't just look at rings and stats to determine how good a QB is. Luck can be Marino and that's fine.

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9 hours ago, CR91 said:

Now let me start by saying this is in no way an insult to the great Dan Marino. He is one the greatest of all time. At one point in Peyton's career, he was even mentioned with Dan, but as we all know Dan never won a championship and with the state of the colts, neither will luck anytime soon. Texans are a qb away from being super bowl contenders and the Titans are on the rise with an up and coming QB and a very good run game. What would be your opinion of Andrew if he never brings Indy a championship?

Why all these stupid threads. Luck is ahead of manning as far as play off wins, afcc game appearances thru 5yrs. The Texas, jags, and titans or improved on paper but that doesn't win any games. Till they came win year after year they aren't contenders. The wise the Colts have finished with luck is.8-8 and had a chance for the playoffs in week 17. Luck will get his super bowl win. Probably more then 1 in the next 10-12yrs.

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48 minutes ago, Timo1 said:

Why all these stupid threads. Luck is ahead of manning as far as play off wins, afcc game appearances thru 5yrs. The Texas, jags, and titans or improved on paper but that doesn't win any games. Till they came win year after year they aren't contenders. The wise the Colts have finished with luck is.8-8 and had a chance for the playoffs in week 17. Luck will get his super bowl win. Probably more then 1 in the next 10-12yrs.

 

That's just the reality of our current situation

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I thought a telling stat was that Brady only won 20 games, when his defense ranked below the top 16 in those years. Manning and Marino were on top of that list - Peyton went 93 and 7 and I don't remember Marino's record but it was just below that. It seems people forget the saying; "Defenses win championships" when it comes to the GOAT discussion. If the Colts can build a top 15 defense and Luck gets protection and a back that can take it to the house, we might see him in the GOAT discussion before he hangs up his cleats.

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6 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have Dan Marino in my Top 10 QB's of all-time despite not having a Ring. Andrew has the potential to be Great and has been Very Good up to this point IMO.

I have him in my top 3.  

 

I wonder how many Dolphin fans would have given up the Marino years for 1 championship by a Scott Mitchell lead team?

I wouldn't give up the Manning years for anything.  

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9 hours ago, will426 said:

Texans aren't a Qb away from being super bowl contenders stop it lol they're a qb away from going to the playoffs and losing.  TBH everyone in the Afc aren't Super Bowl contenders till they knock the damn pats out the playoffs you do that then you see who's a contender til then AFC is simply Pats

This is quite true!!!

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10 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

I mean I get what you're saying, but the Texans literally made the playoffs with one of the worst starting quarterbacks of last season. They also won a game.

If the Texans get Romo, they could be very good.   Assuming Romo stays healthy.   But the Colts only have a chance if Luck stays healthy.  

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