Sean Spence signed

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Unfortunately this probably is it for free agent ILBs...so I doubt we sign Zach Brown now. 

 

Ballard looks bent on pinching pennies in a year when the Colts actually had some money to spend to add at least one to two real play makers to this roster via free agency in addition to the draft.   Hope this approach pans out...he better kill this draft.  We have a linebacker core full of mostly solid backup types.  

I'm not convinced there were any real play makers available.  Even Poe was mostly a 2 down player in KC.

[krunk]

Spence is a good athlete and a hitter. He has a really nice blow up of a screen play, or some type of dump off on YouTube when he was with the Titans. You can just hear the pads crack. Clint Sessions type hit

[BlueCollarColts]

I like the Spence signing, definitely think he can be a good piece to this defense and probably a starter at ILB.

[Virtuoso80]

 

[#12.]

38 minutes ago, Shive said:

 

I actually kind of like the fact that we don't know exactly who the starters are yet. In the past, we've forced guys into playing just because of the cost it took to get them (ie: Richardson). In this case, the best players play, which is how it should be.

Fresh blood and competition everywhere.  

 

Bring in Aiken or another WR.  Push Moncrief and Dorsett too.  Hopefully more than Schwenke will be added to the O-line mix.  Push everbody.

[COLTS449]

2 hours ago, #12. said:

It's a much needed shakeup.  If you hit on just one or two of them, if one or two of these players exceed expectations, you're a better team.  And there is nothing to lose.  The defense can't get any worse.

 

I still think we should have signed a couple high dollar guys to go along with these under the radar guys first up....But...Hopefully Mingo, Spence, all Simon have breakout years. They're all young and have the potential. Remember Mingo was considered one of the next great EDGE rushers. I think he was compared to Ware??? But this will be his 5th year. Sometimes it takes a kid a few years to put it all together. See Nick Perry, Morris Claiborne, and even Casey Hayward (even though he was solid before last year), and several more. Paul Kruger. Pernell McPhee. List goes on. He's shown flashes, Mingo has. Had 5 sacks one year. I think we need to just let him focus on getting after the QB and nothing else and maybe we can really get him to tap into his potential. 26 years old. But Simon and Spence are both young too and both are talented enough to break out and become household names IMO. But some don't realize how good Sheard is/can be. He had 5 sacks and barley played this past year. He had issues with the staff and some off the field stuff from what I understand. In 15 he had 8 sacks in 13 games, and has had a few years in Cleveland with 7-8 sacks. If he's happy here and plays up to his ability he could give us 8-10 sacks easily IMO. He's only 27, though it seems like he's been in the league forever LOL. But yeah... I'm hoping we strike gold with 1-2 of these guys. I'd still love to see Hankins brought in so we wouldn't have to worry about NT in the draft, and so we'd have our NT for the next 4-5 years. But with a great draft and improvement from a couple (1-2-3) of Haeg, Clark, Dorsett, Anderson, Ridgeway, McGill to have breakout years. My guess would be Anderson and Haeg do. But again. With a big sexy draft we're winning the AFC south.

[dw49]

34 minutes ago, krunk said:

Whenever he takes a position on something it never changes. No matter how much evidence. He will just keep saying the same thing forever. Just let it be! His position on the issue wont change. I gave up a while back.

 

 

Ehhh.... no big deal.

[dw49]

29 minutes ago, BOTT said:

I'm not convinced there were any real play makers available.  Even Poe was mostly a 2 down player in KC.

 

I totally agree and it's a pretty simple reason why. The league just had so many teams flush with cap space. It doesn't take a genius to realize in that atmosphere , less impact players hit the market and those that do will be very expensive. 

 

What were we supposed to do ?  Pay 13 mill per year for Zietler ? Outbid NE for Gilmore ? Poe was a very tough sign for a lot of reasons. Break the bank for Jeffries ? Ballard did OK IMO.

Now maybe spend a few bucks to extend Mewhort ? 

[austriancolt]

Some very unsexy free agent signings but I think I know what Ballard is doing. Thanks to Ryan Grigson the Colts have so many holes on their team especially on defense you just can't fill them all through the draft. But Ballard is someone who believes you build a successful team through the draft and not via free agency so he brings in some short term fillers for cheap money so we can get a team on the field. We probably need 2-3 drafts to get something going. Well, thank you Grigson!

[BR-549]

2 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

Grigson should have been fired midseason for what he put on the field at LB last year. 

Lol, Aint that the truth.  

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

I didn't intend the word "flashed" to imply by any means that I thought he was "special." IMO he played pretty well for a guy that was signed as a "camp body." By flashed I meant that he made some nice plays but by no means was a quality starting ILB. Then I added that I think he's a favorite at this point in time to make the final 53. Now if we draft 2 ILB in this draft , then I could change my mind. And I have no idea what Grigson's philosophies were at LB after that 2016 mess he created .

That's the thing, he shouldn't be a favorite to make the final 53. He's an UDFA from Georgia State. Guys like him grown on trees and bounce around the league all the time. Which brings me to my point about Grigson's philosophies. It was Grigson who overvalued UDFA and project players to the point where he'd hitch his wagon to guys like Denzel Good, Delano Howell, Jonathan Harrison, etc... I don't think that's Ballards game. it doesn't mean we'll never have UDFAs make the final 53, but I don't think guys like Jackson are going to be looked at as more than ST and emergency backup players. Jack Doyle's don't grow on trees.

 

Its not not really you I'm coming at, it's just too many people here overvalue average and bottom tier players, which I think is a side affect of the Grigson era. Sorry if it seems that way. It's just we already have a topic with people talking about Melvin being a starting CB and a lot of people have overrated Jackson.

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 hour ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Also it looks like he got a signing bonus. If I'm not mistaken he's the only one who got one so far, right? 

Yes it is, but its because its a 1 year deal, and the issue of the signing bonuses cap hit being spread over the length of the contract doesnt really change anything in this case. 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

That's the thing, he shouldn't be a favorite to make the final 53. He's an UDFA from Georgia State. Guys like him grown on trees and bounce around the league all the time. Which brings me to my point about Grigson's philosophies. It was Grigson who overvalued UDFA and project players to the point where he'd hitch his wagon to guys like Denzel Good, Delano Howell, Jonathan Harrison, etc... I don't think that's Ballards game. it doesn't mean we'll never have UDFAs make the final 53, but I don't think guys like Jackson are going to be looked at as more than ST and emergency backup players. Jack Doyle's don't grow on trees.

 

Its not not really you I'm coming at, it's just too many people here overvalue average and bottom tier players, which I think is a side affect of the Grigson era. Sorry if it seems that way. It's just we already have a topic with people talking about Melvin being a starting CB and a lot of people have overrated Jackson.

Good point, I'm a bit guilty of that myself. Bad habit! Nasty habit!

[Defjamz26]

7 minutes ago, Mr Clueless said:

Good point, I'm a bit guilty of that myself. Bad habit! Nasty habit!

We all are. We want to have answers at positions so bad that we try and create one. I've been guilty of it myself if we're being honest. It's just important to maintain perspective I think. The truth is the Colts need 2 new starters at ILB. We need a new starting CB next to Vontae. We just don't have the talent tbh. But so believe Ballard will find it. We just have to be patient.

[dw49]

35 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

That's the thing, he shouldn't be a favorite to make the final 53. He's an UDFA from Georgia State. Guys like him grown on trees and bounce around the league all the time. Which brings me to my point about Grigson's philosophies. It was Grigson who overvalued UDFA and project players to the point where he'd hitch his wagon to guys like Denzel Good, Delano Howell, Jonathan Harrison, etc... I don't think that's Ballards game. it doesn't mean we'll never have UDFAs make the final 53, but I don't think guys like Jackson are going to be looked at as more than ST and emergency backup players. Jack Doyle's don't grow on trees.

 

Its not not really you I'm coming at, it's just too many people here overvalue average and bottom tier players, which I think is a side affect of the Grigson era. Sorry if it seems that way. It's just we already have a topic with people talking about Melvin being a starting CB and a lot of people have overrated Jackson.

 

 

So like I said in an earlier post. I think Jackson showed enough last year to have a better than even chance of making our final 53. You don't . So we revist in September and if there is no injury factor either I'm right or your right . It's pretty simple stuff. I never said the guy was great . I just said I think he's good enough to make the roster as it looks now. I have no idea why you are beating this to death as I never said Jackson had star qualities. And like I said if we draft 2 ILB , then I would likely change my mind and we would need to look and see if he made another 53 man roster. If not .. you would be right. Once again... to be clear .. what I said is IMO he has a better than even chance to make the final 53. Didn't say he was a star or even starter material. 

 

Can we just revisit in September and drop this for now ? Or do I need to further define what I meant by he flashed a bit in 2016 ?

[dw49]

2 hours ago, krunk said:

Whenever he takes a position on something it never changes. No matter how much evidence. He will just keep saying the same thing forever. Just let it be! His position on the issue wont change. I gave up a while back.

 

I owe you an apology . That's just insane that he's still posting on this.

[throwing BBZ]

6 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Does he fit our scheme?

 

 No, they waited and waited till all the scheme fit guys were gone so they had to sign him.
 
 He projects best as a special teamer and a better coverage guy than Morrison in passing situations.
 Just a guy.

[throwing BBZ]

5 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I think you're mis-using the word "flashed". Jackson didn't flash anything. He made some plays. So did Morrison, so did Chapman at one point, etc....Jackson isn't anything special. He's battling to make the team as a STs member and rotational LB. 

 

  Flash  a brief, intense effort that produces no really significant result.  I believe this means YOU r wrong!
 Jackson did make quit a few splashy plays at the line of scrimmage, behind the line of scrimmage, and in the flats. Some pretty exciting stuff IMO. Looked like a FB player!
 Was he out of place, slow to read things, of course. If you fix that, like the poster SAID, he has a good shot to make the 53. I certainly like his play better than McNary.

[OLD FAN MAN]

5 hours ago, #12. said:

It's a much needed shakeup.  If you hit on just one or two of them, if one or two of these players exceed expectations, you're a better team.  And there is nothing to lose.  The defense can't get any worse.

i concur

[richard pallo]

I know many are still hoping we bring in Z. Brown but don't forget about Michal Kendricks of the Eagles.  They are trying to trade him and so far no deal has been struck.   There is still a good chance he gets released and I think he would be a great pick up for us.

[bleevit]

In general I like what Mr. Ballard is doing regarding the rush linebacking situation. Trying to get a proven double digit sack-master is very difficult and dangerous. The way the Colts are now being managed takes into account how different schemes and utilization can make a huge difference in statistics. If I were a betting man, I would say that at least two of the guys acquired will make a significant impact, especially considering the Colts less than great situation at outside linebacker. Coach Pagano could go to war with the bunch he now has and have a very good chance to improve the defense. Spence looks like a good gamble to me. If they can score a keeper in the draft, they're good to go. Now on to other things. 

[Defjamz26]

3 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

 

So like I said in an earlier post. I think Jackson showed enough last year to have a better than even chance of making our final 53. You don't . So we revist in September and if there is no injury factor either I'm right or your right . It's pretty simple stuff. I never said the guy was great . I just said I think he's good enough to make the roster as it looks now. I have no idea why you are beating this to death as I never said Jackson had star qualities. And like I said if we draft 2 ILB , then I would likely change my mind and we would need to look and see if he made another 53 man roster. If not .. you would be right. Once again... to be clear .. what I said is IMO he has a better than even chance to make the final 53. Didn't say he was a star or even starter material. 

 

Can we just revisit in September and drop this for now ? Or do I need to further define what I meant by he flashed a bit in 2016 ?

Thats fine. My thing is that the only people that have a good shot at making the roster are people who were high draft picks or full season starters who played well the whole season. Everyone else is up in the air. If you wanna say he has a good shot to make the roster as a ST player that's different.

[Tmoney]

He's the perfect sub package LB but we can't rely on him to be a 3 down backer. Not mad at the signing, because the contract is cheap but 2 true every down backers are still needed

[neug3246]

8 hours ago, MightyLucks said:

Bet we sign Zach Brown too. Spence is being brought in for competition.  

Bet you we don't sign Zach Brown

[dgambill]

3 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Yes it is, but its because its a 1 year deal, and the issue of the signing bonuses cap hit being spread over the length of the contract doesnt really change anything in this case. 

I could be wrong but there is a difference in roster bonus and signing even on a 1 year contract. Roster bonus like what mingo and others got is not guaranteed I believe and only get it if he makes final 53. Signing is up front even if they don't make the team. Either they feel confident Spence will be on the team or Spence wanted insurance in signing that he would get the money. I think for Spence and several others there isn't a question of making the team but some others they will have to earn it on the field.

[dgambill]

11 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

He's the perfect sub package LB but we can't rely on him to be a 3 down backer. Not mad at the signing, because the contract is cheap but 2 true every down backers are still needed

There just aren't a lot of these players in the league. Thus why you sign a guy like this. If you had two true 3 down backers Spence wouldn't likely see the field but a handful of plays. I think it is safe to say that our LBs will mix it up a lot based on matchups and down and distance. I think we are looking at one true MLB in the draft to start likely...and if another ilb is there somewhere sure but we are likely looking at LBs by committee with maybe one true 3down backer in the draft. I think Foster is high on our list but we want to have players in place in case we don't land him.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

24 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

He's the perfect sub package LB but we can't rely on him to be a 3 down backer. Not mad at the signing, because the contract is cheap but 2 true every down backers are still needed

Completely agree.

[Tmoney]

18 minutes ago, dgambill said:

There just aren't a lot of these players in the league. Thus why you sign a guy like this. If you had two true 3 down backers Spence wouldn't likely see the field but a handful of plays. I think it is safe to say that our LBs will mix it up a lot based on matchups and down and distance. I think we are looking at one true MLB in the draft to start likely...and if another ilb is there somewhere sure but we are likely looking at LBs by committee with maybe one true 3down backer in the draft. I think Foster is high on our list but we want to have players in place in case we don't land him.

Since the contract is so cheap I'd hope CB is still trying to land another LB in FA. Zach Brown has been linked to us but no meeting scheduled, Mychal Kendricks hopefully will be available. But totally agreed drafting a ILB high is crucial. Foster or Reddick round 1 would be perfect next to Brown or Kendricks.

[SaturdayAllDay]

33 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I could be wrong but there is a difference in roster bonus and signing even on a 1 year contract. Roster bonus like what mingo and others got is not guaranteed I believe and only get it if he makes final 53. Signing is up front even if they don't make the team. Either they feel confident Spence will be on the team or Spence wanted insurance in signing that he would get the money. I think for Spence and several others there isn't a question of making the team but some others they will have to earn it on the field.

Depends on the contract really. Roster bonus can be paid any time, as specified in the contract. Day 1 of the new year, day 5, week 1, week 13, etc. My assumption is the roster bonuses, at least for most of the guys we signed, have already been paid up front, like a signing bonus that isnt spread over the contract. Cant see any reason why a player like sheard or doyle would forgoe a signing bonus until they made the 53. Its probably a hard enough sell to make them take the roster bonus over a signing bonus period, as no dead money after year 1 gives them less job security then if next year there was 6M in dead cap to release them. 

[dw49]

59 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Thats fine. My thing is that the only people that have a good shot at making the roster are people who were high draft picks or full season starters who played well the whole season. Everyone else is up in the air. If you wanna say he has a good shot to make the roster as a ST player that's different.

 

 

I would not expect him to be a starting LB for us if that's what your asking.

[oldunclemark]

9 hours ago, MTC said:

FWIW:

 

Sean Spence's PFF grade is 74.0

is that good?  Seriously. I don't know

[dw49]

2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Flash  a brief, intense effort that produces no really significant result.  I believe this means YOU r wrong!
 Jackson did make quit a few splashy plays at the line of scrimmage, behind the line of scrimmage, and in the flats. Some pretty exciting stuff IMO. Looked like a FB player!
 Was he out of place, slow to read things, of course. If you fix that, like the poster SAID, he has a good shot to make the 53. I certainly like his play better than McNary.

 

 

You saw what I saw. Small college kid that only started his last 2 years. You would expect the game to slow down for him a bit and no reason why he can't be a nice back up type player.

[SaturdayAllDay]

19 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

is that good?  Seriously. I don't know

Grades are as follows:

0-59.9: Poor

60-69.9: Below Average

70-79.9: Average

80-89.9: Above Average

90-100: Elite

 

With that in mind, our highest graded player for our front 7 last year was Edwin Jackson at 61.6 and our lowest graded player was Walden at 41.2. 74 might not be amazing, but its far above anything we put on the field last year on defense. 

 

[dgambill]

44 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Depends on the contract really. Roster bonus can be paid any time, as specified in the contract. Day 1 of the new year, day 5, week 1, week 13, etc. My assumption is the roster bonuses, at least for most of the guys we signed, have already been paid up front, like a signing bonus that isnt spread over the contract. Cant see any reason why a player like sheard or doyle would forgoe a signing bonus until they made the 53. Its probably a hard enough sell to make them take the roster bonus over a signing bonus period, as no dead money after year 1 gives them less job security then if next year there was 6M in dead cap to release them. 

And that's why I was likely wrong lol...I just figured with some of these guys I think there is no guarantee they even make the roster (mingo/hunt etc) so I would use it as incentive to come in and make the squad.

[dgambill]

7 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Grades are as follows:

0-59.9: Poor

60-69.9: Below Average

70-79.9: Average

80-89.9: Above Average

90-100: Elite

 

With that in mind, our highest graded player for our front 7 last year was Edwin Jackson at 61.6 and our lowest graded player was Walden at 41.2. 74 might not be amazing, but its far above anything we put on the field last year on defense. 

 

Keep in mind he played in limited reps (as most of our guys we signed) so they typically played only on downs they would most likely matchup well. Basically put in position to succeed. That said there is nothing wrong with identifying what guys are good at and specializing our defense some. Bad thing is the elite offenses like NE and Pittsburg and Atlanta and the likes will either speed up the pace to keep you from subbing, change plays to exploit the mismatches and/or force your guys to do what they don't do well. Spence I think can do better in the run game I think the further he gets away form his injury but I do think he will be asked to play only in certain  passing packages.

[SaturdayAllDay]

Just now, dgambill said:

Keep in mind he played in limited reps (as most of our guys we signed) so they typically played only on downs they would most likely matchup well. Basically put in position to succeed. That said there is nothing wrong with identifying what guys are good at and specializing our defense some. Bad thing is the elite offenses like NE and Pittsburg and Atlanta and the likes will either speed up the pace to keep you from subbing, change plays to exploit the mismatches and/or force your guys to do what they don't do well. Spence I think can do better in the run game I think the further he gets away form his injury but I do think he will be asked to play only in certain  passing packages.

Absolutely. At the end of the day, his grade of average is what we his. He is an average player that has strengths and weaknesses. He isnt breaking records anytime soon. But, given the state of our defense he is an upgrade, which can only be seen as a good thing. He is an average player that is young enough to be coached up and improve to an above average player, and given his low cap hit, can probably outplay his contract. Those are the types of contracts I like to see. 

[masterlock]

10 hours ago, stitches said:

He was ranked as the 10th best ILB free agent this year by bleacher report. Here's the write up about him:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2691726-nfl1000-free-agency-rankings-for-the-2017-ilb-market

 

 

 

Seems like he's good coverage/pass-rush linebacker, but doesn't do well against the run.

Yes, at least so far. But players can continue to develop with the right coaching. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

Just now, dgambill said:

And that's why I was likely wrong lol...I just figured with some of these guys I think there is no guarantee they even make the roster (mingo/hunt etc) so I would use it as incentive to come in and make the squad.

So I figured I would see if all the details are out for some of the lower contracts (Mingo, Hunt, Schwenke, Woods, and Spence) and what I have found so far:

 -Mingo is another 1 year signing, so he only came with a signing bonus of 500k 

 -Hunt was signed for 2 years, with 2 separate roster bonuses. One has already been guaranteed at 500k and his other bonus is a per game bonus of ~31K per game (which is a cap hit of ~469k)

-Schwenke is a 1 yr signing, and comes with a signing bonus of 300K, but also comes with a Per game bonus of 12.5k/game (or a cap hit of 200k)

-Woods full details arent out yet

-Spence gets his signing bonus of 750k, As well as the same per game bonus that Hunt gets of ~31k/game

 

I think this confirms what I was assuming, as all the one year signings have signing bonuses so far. I do like the added per game bonuses for Spence, Schwenke and Hunt. Really adds to that competitive, tough, "Earn your spot/paycheck" culture Ballard seems to want to bring. Maybe we see them tough it out through a few games while dinged up a bit or maybe it keeps that fire under their behinds to stay productive and not be healthy scratches. Kind of surprised Mingo doesnt have the per game bonus as well. 

After looking at the higher signings as well, Sheard, Doyle and Simon all had roster bonuses for year 1 guaranteed at signing, but surprisingly get the same ~31k per game bonuses as well. Very interesting. 

[chrisfarley]

PLEASE READ MY BOLD/UNDERLINED BELOW

 

LB27

SEAN SPENCE

LB  MIAMI

 

 

 

 

GRADE

80.2?

• 4.71 SEC

• 12 REPS

• 33.5 INCH

• 119.0 INCH

• 7.46 SEC

• 4.28 SEC

• 5'11"HEIGHT
• 31 1/2"ARM LENGTH
• 231LBS.WEIGHT
• 9 1/4"HANDS

• 
• MORE COMBINE VIDEO

 

OVERVIEW

Spence has been a bright spot and a standout player on a rather uninspired Miami defense of late. He was a four-year starter at Miami, and although undersized, he makes up for this deficiency through speed, instincts and overall athletic ability. He is a great defender on outside runs, as he can effortlessly run down the ACC's fastest players. He is stellar in coverage, can blanket tight ends and tackle from various angles. He makes quick decisions and executes on them. While size will be a concern as he enters the NFL, Spence will be defined by his ability to play free and get off blocks to make plays on the ball. While he was suspended in the fallout from the Nevin Shapiro booster scandal at Miami, there is little doubt of his true character and likewise, his overall athleticism and ability in terms of production translating to the NFL. Look for him to be taken in the mid-rounds, but an impressive combine showing could certainly bode well for Spence ascending in the weeks leading up to the draft.

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS

 Spence's athleticism shows in all what he does. He can quickly diagnose a play and use his explosive hips to meet running backs and deliver the blow. He has fluid hips in coverage and uses his arm strength to shed blockers when he gets engulfed by bigger players. He is an experienced starter at a high level, and this should allow him to play fast and instinctually from early on at the next level. He has natural athletic ability to fit in a 4-3 scheme where he is playing freely and flowing to the ball. He is an active player and almost always involved on run plays.

WEAKNESSES

 Spence is undersized and needs to play free of big blockers on him to be productive. He can flow to plays but "ride the pole" and fall off tackles at times. The scheme he plays in is key to his production.

[KelownaColtsFan]

5 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Absolutely. At the end of the day, his grade of average is what we his. He is an average player that has strengths and weaknesses. He isnt breaking records anytime soon. But, given the state of our defense he is an upgrade, which can only be seen as a good thing. He is an average player that is young enough to be coached up and improve to an above average player, and given his low cap hit, can probably outplay his contract. Those are the types of contracts I like to see. 

Given the state of our 2016 LBers, average, is definitely an upgrade.