Are we wasting away Lucks career?

[neug3246]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So I am being closed minded with facts? OK, have it your way.

What facts have you brought other then stating record comparison? Since 2012 the colts have had 38 draft picks. 16 on the D and 22 on the O. Out of the 16 defensive players 6 of them are still on the team, 5 pending on what we do with Parry, that's great talent we occurred to build a champion style D. 7 or 8 of them never even made one start for us and only appeared on average in 5 games/player. The O-line has seen its fair share of players come in and go to only have 3/5 of it is figured out, all on the left side. We continue to have bust after bust 1st round draft picks that don't produce, the same can be said in FA's in overpaying marginal players or guys that have never seen the field due to injuries or players that are old slow and past their prime. Again a head coach that I think is slightly above average, but is heavily carried by his QB who also carries and sometimes drags down this team himself. Our team has been poorly managed and coached and just bc our division rivals haven't put it all together yet but right now have more overall potential makes be believe that we have wasted Lucks early career bc this was known as the easy division. All three of the other teams in the AFC South have built better teams then the Colts. The Texans have a number one D and the Jags have the sixth overall D, you improve the QB play on both teams and they are contending for the playoffs, same with the Titans who made a huge leap last year and I expect another leap this year. What did we have oh ya a 30th overall D, with the best overall offense in the AFC South but the if Luck gets injured we would be lucky to hold our head above water. The majority of the people inside this fan base are just to scared to admit that the other teams in the South are closing the gap or have closed the gap between them and the Colts.           

[VocableLoki]

2 hours ago, neug3246 said:

This is an interesting quote from Calais Campbell in an interview he did with why he went with the Jags. I want to point out his view on winning versus Pagano's view on "its hard to win football games in the NFL." How many times have we heard him say that since he became the head coach?? Any ways here it is. Also I'm gonna add in how he see the Jags and why we should not rule them out to compete in the AFC South and why I believe the AFC South isn't the weak division in the NFL anymore as the Jags and Titans are both increasing the talent.

 

KLEMKO: How does a team go from winning free agency and making a big splash in the spring to winning games in the fall?

CAMPBELL: To be a winner in the NFL, it’s about the way you prepare, the way you work. There’s a formula to it and it’s not hard; you’re going to lose games, but can you win the close games? Most of your season is made up of games that could go either way. That’s where you have to be prepared for any situation, and you have to execute. I don’t think it’s a mistake that the same teams always win. They have a belief that no matter what happens in a game, they’re not out of it. And they know not to relax when they’re winning. Couch Coughlin knows how to win. Coach Marrone has the right mind-set, and he’s someone I’m excited to play for. This team is so young, you can teach them how to win.

 

KLEMKO: Chris Harris and a couple other guys tweeted out some criticism after your decision, suggesting you didn’t want to win a Super Bowl. Did you see that?

CAMPBELL: I did. Everybody’s got their own opinion. I feel like the rest of the world doesn’t see Jacksonville the way I do. I think Jacksonville’s close. They lose 10 games last year by one score. I know how it goes with one-score games. We’re 13-3 in Arizona a year ago and won all those close games. Jacksonville is right there. We just have to find a way to win those games. They had the sixth overall defense last year and improved. Now we can get tighter, get some turnovers, and it’s a whole different ballgame.

 

Here is the full interview, its interesting and worth the read: http://mmqb.si.com/2017/03/15/calais-campbell-jacksonville-jaguars-nfl-free-agency-signing

 

Boiling down what Campbell said essentially equates to "it is hard to win in the NFL." That quote is also used by literally every coach in the league (http://www.patriots.com/audio/2016/11/28/bill-belichick-1128-its-hard-win-league) so that is not a reflection on our team.

[neug3246]

1 minute ago, VocableLoki said:

Boiling down what Campbell said essentially equates to "it is hard to win in the NFL." That quote is also used by literally every coach in the league (http://www.patriots.com/audio/2016/11/28/bill-belichick-1128-its-hard-win-league) so that is not a reflection on our team.

But the really good teams don't let that be an excuse, where Pagano I think uses it way to much especially in the last two years. He also said he doesn't "believe its a mistake that the same teams always win" never stating any teams but one can only assume he is talking about New England, Green Bay, Seattle, Pittsburgh, the Colts for a number of years. That all comes down to how they draft, handle free agency, prepare for games, etc. Pagano and Co. with Grigson didn't always do the best of this stuff and we got away with it early in Lucks career but now the past has caught up with us as the Titans, Texans, and yes even the Jags are starting to form respectable football teams. People view this Division as a push over or an easy win where I don't necessarily see that anymore. Might not be the AFC West tough but it isn't the AFC South softness of the past.

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, neug3246 said:

I think Campbell see them as a team on the rise and he wants to be a foundational piece to bring that winning culture to the team. Its a gamble on his part that may or may not win for him. Never once did he say that he doesn't Colts don't have s long history of winning. 

I found what he (Campbell) said very strange, I thought he would have said something like: "the Jags have sucked for years and I expected them to suck when I'm there too". But he never said that, and it really proves that we have wasted Lucks career thus far.

[VocableLoki]

1 minute ago, neug3246 said:

But the really good teams don't let that be an excuse, where Pagano I think uses it way to much especially in the last two years. He also said he doesn't "believe its a mistake that the same teams always win" never stating any teams but one can only assume he is talking about New England, Green Bay, Seattle, Pittsburgh, the Colts for a number of years. That all comes down to how they draft, handle free agency, prepare for games, etc. Pagano and Co. with Grigson didn't always do the best of this stuff and we got away with it early in Lucks career but now the past has caught up with us as the Titans, Texans, and yes even the Jags are starting to form respectable football teams. People view this Division as a push over or an easy win where I don't necessarily see that anymore. Might not be the AFC West tough but it isn't the AFC South softness of the past.

I don't think Pagano stating that is an excuse, just a fact. Ballard used that line in his introductory press conference, it's used often and is a simple statement of fact. It's not a mistake that the same teams win, but that doesn't make it any less difficult. Everyone lauds the Patriots, rightfully so, but look at their margin of victory in Super Bowl wins. It is incredibly difficult to win any one game.

 

I'm reading that your argument essentially is that we haven't had the right mentality about winning and that has lead to us "wasting Luck's career," given that is the topic of the thread. This doesn't add up to me, if anything, we were too aggressive in chasing immediate success and didn't spend enough time developing the full roster. 

[CheezyColt]

6 minutes ago, VocableLoki said:

...if anything, we were too aggressive in chasing immediate success and didn't spend enough time developing the full roster. 

It's so beautiful.... and accurate.

[neug3246]

3 minutes ago, VocableLoki said:

I don't think Pagano stating that is an excuse, just a fact. Ballard used that line in his introductory press conference, it's used often and is a simple statement of fact. It's not a mistake that the same teams win, but that doesn't make it any less difficult. Everyone lauds the Patriots, rightfully so, but look at their margin of victory in Super Bowl wins. It is incredibly difficult to win any one game.

 

I'm reading that your argument essentially is that we haven't had the right mentality about winning and that has lead to us "wasting Luck's career," given that is the topic of the thread. This doesn't add up to me, if anything, we were too aggressive in chasing immediate success and didn't spend enough time developing the full roster. 

That is a very valid point to and I agree with that statement but even the immediate success didn't get us very fair in the the end. All I want are faster starts and to not let up if we get an early lead on a team mentality wise.

 

And as far as the margin of victory in the Super Bowl wins and losses by the Patriots, well isn't that what the Super Bowl is supposed to provide the fans. The two best teams battling it out to find out who the better team is that Sunday. Going back to 1995 there have been only 10 Super Bowl games that have been decided by double digits or more after 1995 you get into a long string of really crappy Super Bowl games:/  

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, neug3246 said:

What facts have you brought other then stating record comparison? Since 2012 the colts have had 38 draft picks. 16 on the D and 22 on the O. Out of the 16 defensive players 6 of them are still on the team, 5 pending on what we do with Parry, that's great talent we occurred to build a champion style D. 7 or 8 of them never even made one start for us and only appeared on average in 5 games/player. The O-line has seen its fair share of players come in and go to only have 3/5 of it is figured out, all on the left side. We continue to have bust after bust 1st round draft picks that don't produce, the same can be said in FA's in overpaying marginal players or guys that have never seen the field due to injuries or players that are old slow and past their prime. Again a head coach that I think is slightly above average, but is heavily carried by his QB who also carries and sometimes drags down this team himself. Our team has been poorly managed and coached and just bc our division rivals haven't put it all together yet but right now have more overall potential makes be believe that we have wasted Lucks early career bc this was known as the easy division. All three of the other teams in the AFC South have built better teams then the Colts. The Texans have a number one D and the Jags have the sixth overall D, you improve the QB play on both teams and they are contending for the playoffs, same with the Titans who made a huge leap last year and I expect another leap this year. What did we have oh ya a 30th overall D, with the best overall offense in the AFC South but the if Luck gets injured we would be lucky to hold our head above water. The majority of the people inside this fan base are just to scared to admit that the other teams in the South are closing the gap or have closed the gap between them and the Colts.           

This is the wrong thread to be having a debate about what you are talking about.

You don't seem to comprehend what the original intent of the thread was meant to be. It's about the Colts, not the Jags.

[2006Coltsbestever]

It's 43-34 in favor of NO regarding the voting. Good result, I voted NO.

[neug3246]

6 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

This is the wrong thread to be having a debate about what you are talking about.

You don't seem to comprehend what the original intent of the thread was meant to be. It's about the Colts, not the Jags.

No I understand the original intent of the thread and as the rest of the AFC South has gotten better the Colts have not which will hurt our playoff chances for a Super Bowl run with Luck, hence wasting away Luck's Career. I'm just looking at it from a different view point then what you are. 

[crazycolt1]

57 minutes ago, neug3246 said:

No I understand the original intent of the thread and as the rest of the AFC South has gotten better the Colts have not which will hurt our playoff chances for a Super Bowl run with Luck, hence wasting away Luck's Career. I'm just looking at it from a different view point then what you are. 

The Jags getting better or worse is not the issue.

[SaturdayAllDay]

7 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It's 43-34 in favor of NO regarding the voting. Good result, I voted NO.

I think its also worth noting that a chunk of people who voted yes also posted that they only agreed that the Grigson regime wasted Lucks early years, whereas the OP, based on his rants on numerous other posts, is talking about the rebuild that is starting to happen under Ballard. I think a clearer question to that assertion would produce an even wider gap in the votes.  

[crazycolt1]

It took the HOF GM Polian 9 years to win a super bowl with Manning.

He also made but lost 4 with the Bills.

This over reaction on Luck's career being wasted is exactly that.

[Yoshinator]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

It took the HOF GM Polian 9 years to win a super bowl with Manning.

He also made but lost 4 with the Bills.

This over reaction on Luck's career being wasted is exactly that.

Possibly, but 5 years of Luck's career have been wasted. We can enjoy the AFC Championship year all we want, but it means very little when we are now back to square one. That's where we are. The team around Luck is really no better now than it was in 2012, and that's why Luck's career is being wasted, because he can't do it by himself, even if he has gotten better. In a best case scenario, we have Luck for 15 years with 5 years gone. That gives us 7 years to win a SB if Ballard can get us back to being a contender in 3 years. That's cutting it close.

[AZColt11]

So far, yes.  From here on, who knows?  Stil a LONG way to go i hope in his career.  I would think at LEAST 7 more years, maybe 10.  That's a while from now.

[crazycolt1]

50 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Possibly, but 5 years of Luck's career have been wasted. We can enjoy the AFC Championship year all we want, but it means very little when we are now back to square one. That's where we are. The team around Luck is really no better now than it was in 2012, and that's why Luck's career is being wasted, because he can't do it by himself, even if he has gotten better. In a best case scenario, we have Luck for 15 years with 5 years gone. That gives us 7 years to win a SB if Ballard can get us back to being a contender in 3 years. That's cutting it close.

It's only opinion that Luck's first 5 years has been wasted. Take the one injury year away and he has established himself pretty good.

IMO we are not back to square one and it's not all doom and gloom.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

It's only opinion that Luck's first 5 years has been wasted. Take the one injury year away and he has established himself pretty good.

IMO we are not back to square one and it's not all doom and gloom.

It's not opinion at all. Even if Luck has improved, is the team any better around him? You know good and well the team is back to where it was in 2012 besides being a bit younger, but the majority of the players being at the same skill level or worse. We have missed the playoffs 2 years in a row after year 1 we went 11-5. Luck is 5 years older. If anything, we've regressed, got a new GM, most likely, Chuck is on the hot seat, and we are rebuilding again. Don't try and play that game with me. It can be turned around, but at this point, we are basically trying to get 1 SB while Luck is our QB and be happy with it. It certainly won't happen while Brady is playing.

[crazycolt1]

12 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It's not opinion at all. Even if Luck has improved, is the team any better around him? You know good and well the team is back to where it was in 2012 besides being a bit younger, but the majority of the players being at the same skill level or worse. We have missed the playoffs 2 years in a row after year 1 we went 11-5. Luck is 5 years older. If anything, we've regressed, got a new GM, most likely, Chuck is on the hot seat, and we are rebuilding again. Don't try and play that game with me. It can be turned around, but at this point, we are basically trying to get 1 SB while Luck is our QB and be happy with it. It certainly won't happen while Brady is playing.

Playing a game with you? What are you even talking about?

Just because I am more optimistic than you and you are all doom and gloom does not make either one of us sure of anything.

Stop with the drama.

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Playing a game with you? What are you even talking about?

Just because I am more optimistic than you and you are all doom and gloom doe not make either one of us sure of anything.

Stop with the drama.

You're purposely ignoring all the facts I've given and saying it's opinion. Optimism is fine, voting no is fine, but you are just flat out ignoring that Luck is 5 years older, we have a new GM, we are rebuilding, the team is no better than 5 years ago, and that the AFC South is more competitive. Optimism is fine, but you can't pretend that the situation in front of the Colts doesn't exist. You refuse to acknowledge that the majority of the time.

[crazycolt1]

12 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You're purposely ignoring all the facts I've given and saying it's opinion. Optimism is fine, voting no is fine, but you are just flat out ignoring that Luck is 5 years older, we have a new GM, we are rebuilding, the team is no better than 5 years ago, and that the AFC South is more competitive. Optimism is fine, but you can't pretend that the situation in front of the Colts doesn't exist. You refuse to acknowledge that the majority of the time.

You are being over dramatic with the Luck's five years older. It is only your opinion that this team is no better than it was five years ago. That has yet to be determined.

So stay in your doom and gloom mentality, it suits you well. Just the difference between me and you.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You're purposely ignoring all the facts I've given and saying it's opinion. Optimism is fine, voting no is fine, but you are just flat out ignoring that Luck is 5 years older, we have a new GM, we are rebuilding, the team is no better than 5 years ago, and that the AFC South is more competitive. Optimism is fine, but you can't pretend that the situation in front of the Colts doesn't exist. You refuse to acknowledge that the majority of the time.

We no doubt have our work cut out as a team. It will probably take Ballard 2 or 3 years to build a Good Defense. By then Luck will still only be 29/30 and in his prime, around year 8. I voted NO because I think Luck's first 5 years have been Good, Very Good at times. He has a 46-30 record as a starter and we have been to a Final 4. The Patriots have been a major road block but they beat everyone it seems. I guess if someone thinks because we haven't won a SB with Luck they could vote YES but it did take Peyton 9 years to win 1. Peyton didn't even win a Playoff game until his 6th season, Luck is just entering his 6th season.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

You are being over dramatic with the Luck's five years older. It is only your opinion that this team is no better than it was five years ago. That has yet to be determined.

So stay in your doom and gloom mentality, it suits you well. Just the difference between me and you.

Actually, the record determines that the team is no better. The firing of Grigson proves this team is no better (unless Irsay is over-dramatic as well). You still are proving my point, so there's no point in trying to discuss something with someone with an extreme stance that refuses to listen to facts or even debate them.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We no doubt have our work cut out as a team. It will probably take Ballard 2 or 3 years to build a Good Defense. By then Luck will still only be 29/30 and in his prime, around year 8. I voted NO because I think Luck's first 5 years have been Good, Very Good at times. He has a 46-30 record as a starter and we have been to a Final 4. The Patriots have been a major road block but they beat everyone it seems. I guess if someone thinks because we haven't won a SB with Luck they could vote YES but it did take Peyton 9 years to win 1. Peyton didn't even win a Playoff game until his 6th season, Luck is just entering his 6th season.

The bolded is the misconcepted way people interpret this question. They vote based on if Luck has improved as a player in 5 years, not if the team built around him in 5 years gives him a chance at making or winning a SB. After year 5, we are 3 wins below what we finished year 1 at 11-5 and one step below them at missing the playoffs. We're in a rebuild phase and there's another obstacle that Luck may not sign with us again. If he does, we might win one, if he goes to FA, then we are done.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The bolded is the misconcepted way people interpret this question. They vote based on if Luck has improved as a player in 5 years, not if the team built around him in 5 years gives him a chance at making or winning a SB. After year 5, we are 3 wins below what we finished year 1 at 11-5 and one step below them at missing the playoffs. We're in a rebuild phase and there's another obstacle that Luck may not sign with us again. If he does, we might win one, if he goes to FA, then we are done.

If by Luck's 8th or 9th season we aren't a Top 5 team and contending I will be very concerned. If he stays healthy he has a shelf life of 15 years possibly so we still have time.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If by Luck's 8th or 9th season we aren't a Top 5 team and contending I will be very concerned. If he stays healthy he has a shelf life of 15 years possibly so we still have time.

That's the hope that we are contending by year 8 or 9. Luck will probably have a 15 year career, the hope is that he spends all 15 years with us. With Brady gone, a SB is definitely doable. If Ballard gets us back on track, I think we make a SB or two and possibly win one. This is assuming everything goes right though. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That's the hope that we are contending by year 8 or 9. Luck will probably have a 15 year career, the hope is that he spends all 15 years with us. With Brady gone, a SB is definitely doable. If Ballard gets us back on track, I think we make a SB or two and possibly win one. This is assuming everything goes right though. 

Brady probably will retire in 3 years and Big Ben will be retired as well. At that point Luck should be the best QB in the AFC if everything works out. He will basically still only be 30 and with plenty of time to win a SB or 2.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Brady probably will retire in 3 years and Big Ben will be retired as well. At that point Luck should be the best QB in the AFC if everything works out. He will basically still only be 30 and with plenty of time to win a SB or 2.

Big Ben may be retired. There will be a lot of big ifs, like how good is Derek Carr and the Raiders. Will the Texans get a QB, will Mariota and the Titans improve? I could see the AFC South being the top division in the AFC in 3 years. There will be a youth movement. More importantly, I want us to keep improving and hitting on the next 3 drafts so a SB is possible. We need to show him that he can win a SB or two with us when entering his 3rd contract.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Big Ben may be retired. There will be a lot of big ifs, like how good is Derek Carr and the Raiders. Will the Texans get a QB, will Mariota and the Titans improve? I could see the AFC South being the top division in the AFC in 3 years. There will be a youth movement. More importantly, I want us to keep improving and hitting on the next 3 drafts so a SB is possible. We need to show him that he can win a SB or two with us when entering his 3rd contract.

This is perhaps the most important Draft we have ever had coming up. We need to nail it.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This is perhaps the most important Draft we have ever had coming up. We need to nail it.

Absolutely 100%.

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Big Ben may be retired. There will be a lot of big ifs, like how good is Derek Carr and the Raiders. Will the Texans get a QB, will Mariota and the Titans improve? I could see the AFC South being the top division in the AFC in 3 years. There will be a youth movement. More importantly, I want us to keep improving and hitting on the next 3 drafts so a SB is possible. We need to show him that he can win a SB or two with us when entering his 3rd contract.

Teams like the Titans and Jags and even the Texans don't have a winning tradition like we do. They could also fizzle out. We have Andrew and I trust that Ballard can nail a couple of Drafts. I trust him more than I do Grigson.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Teams like the Titans and Jags and even the Texans don't have a winning tradition like we do. They could also fizzle out. We have Andrew and I trust that Ballard can nail a couple of Drafts. I trust him more than I do Grigson.

Yeah they could definitely fizzle out. Lets hope the Texans never get a QB, lol. This is the perfect draft to get started, based on defense mostly, and some of the offensive line and RBs. Perfect to fill in our weaknesses and get BPA at a position of need with 7 draft picks in the first 5 rounds. I'm just hoping to improve the defense this year considerably. No excuses the way the player talent is set up in this draft.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah they could definitely fizzle out. Lets hope the Texans never get a QB, lol. This is the perfect draft to get started, based on defense mostly, and some of the offensive line and RBs. Perfect to fill in our weaknesses and get BPA at a position of need with 7 draft picks in the first 5 rounds. I'm just hoping to improve the defense this year considerably. No excuses the way the player talent is set up in this draft.

I wonder if Romo will go to the Texans? If they get him, they could be dangerous but can he stay healthy? Bortles isn't that good either for the Jags, Mariota is Good at times but nothing special and coming off a leg injury. Hard to predict the future.

[Yoshinator]

15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I wonder if Romo will go to the Texans? If they get him, they could be dangerous but can he stay healthy? Bortles isn't that good either for the Jags, Mariota is Good at times but nothing special and coming off a leg injury. Hard to predict the future.

Romo would be great for us going to the Texans in every possible way. He's either 37 or 38, and with the way he's been hurt, he's only going to play two more years at the most. Even if they beat us two years in the division. It's a temporary two year run for them that won't end in a super bowl title. It'll give us time to rebuild, get a better draft pick in doing so, and when Romo retires, they still won't have a young QB for the future. Bortles is absolute trash, and as long as they keep him, they will be at the bottom of the division (unless they draft fournette and he turns into Zeke, then we may have a problem). The Titans are tricky because they have the best of all three worlds. A young QB with potential, a good RB, and plenty of draft picks to improve the team (6 picks in the top 75). We definitely have to draft perfect, to keep up with the AFC South improving, and to prepare for the future and the overall development of the team.

[crazycolt1]

32 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Actually, the record determines that the team is no better. The firing of Grigson proves this team is no better (unless Irsay is over-dramatic as well). You still are proving my point, so there's no point in trying to discuss something with someone with an extreme stance that refuses to listen to facts or even debate them.

My extreme stance as you call it is no different than your extreme stance.

I do not think or feel this roster is near as bad as your opinion. Even during the 8-8 seasons there were signs of life for a few of those games. They won games they shouldn't have just the same as losing games they shouldn't have.

We have enough good players on this roster and a few of our starters are veterans now. I just choose to be more optimistic because of those facts. (remember your facts comment). There are teams every season that do total turnarounds and it is not an unusual thing. IMO the Colts are fully capable of being a good team this season because 8-8 is not the bottom of the league as you suggest. We have the potent offense that with a couple of sound players added that can play with any team. Yes we are lacking a solid defense but that is being addressed. We don't have to have a defense rated in the top of the league to be successful.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

My extreme stance as you call it is no different than your extreme stance.

I do not think or feel this roster is near as bad as your opinion. Even during the 8-8 seasons there were signs of life for a few of those games. They won games they shouldn't have just the same as losing games they shouldn't have.

We have enough good players on this roster and a few of our starters are veterans now. I just choose to be more optimistic because of those facts. (remember your facts comment). There are teams every season that do total turnarounds and it is not an unusual thing. IMO the Colts are fully capable of being a good team this season because 8-8 is not the bottom of the league as you suggest. We have the potent offense that with a couple of sound players added that can play with any team. Yes we are lacking a solid defense but that is being addressed. We don't have to have a defense rated in the top of the league to be successful.

That's fair enough, I just want you to acknowledge the hole we are in, and take that into consideration for this thread when debating the question. This is an overused response, but I've never used it, so I will this time. This isn't Madden, it's going to be a long process. It'll take time and patience to improve this team and a few years before becoming a contender. Even then, there is no guarantee. Subtract 5 years from Luck's career (our lifeline), and it's very hard for me to be optimistic about this. Sorry I'm more realistic about this than a lot of people, but it happened with Manning and it took til year 9, and Luck isn't Manning, and the current Colts team isn't as good as Manning's Colts team.

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That's fair enough, I just want you to acknowledge the hole we are in, and take that into consideration for this thread when debating the question. This is an overused response, but I've never used it, so I will this time. This isn't Madden, it's going to be a long process. It'll take time and patience to improve this team and a few years before becoming a contender. Even then, there is no guarantee. Subtract 5 years from Luck's career (our lifeline), and it's very hard for me to be optimistic about this. Sorry I'm more realistic about this than a lot of people, but it happened with Manning and it took til year 9, and Luck isn't Manning, and the current Colts team isn't as good as Manning's Colts team.

For your information I have never in my life played Madden. The last time I played any gaming system was Nintendo over 25 years ago.

I have no problem with you and your opinion. I get the impression you do have a problem with me just because I choose to have a different point of view. You accuse me of playing games? Why would you even go there if you didn't have some sort of problem? No where did I say you were wrong in anything you said.

You take all of this too personal and make it an issue when someone don't share your negative attitude.

IMO the hole you want me to acknowledge the Colts are in is not near as deep a hole as you imagine.

It's that simple, nothing more nothing less and certainly nothing personal.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

For your information I have never in my life played Madden. The last time I played any gaming system was Nintendo over 25 years ago.

I have no problem with you and your opinion. I get the impression you do have a problem with me just because I choose to have a different point of view. You accuse me of playing games? Why would you even go there if you didn't have some sort of problem? No where did I say you were wrong in anything you said.

You take all of this too personal and make it an issue when someone don't share your negative attitude.

IMO the hole you want me to acknowledge the Colts are in is not near as deep a hole as you imagine.

It's that simple, nothing more nothing less and certainly nothing personal.

I guess it has to do with the possibility vs probability view. You view the Colts being a good team or winning in the playoffs/SB on possibility. I think it's possible it'll happen. You build you argument that this and this could happen. Technically, anything that anyone could come up with is possible for any of the 32 teams, but it's mostly being said by you because you are a fan of the Colts and it's blind hope and optimism. Probability means that you put together all the positives and negatives about our situation, the risk and the reward, and try to figure out the likelyhood that it will happen. The reason people are gloom and doom that Luck is being wasted and we won't win a SB, is because they are putting the pieces together. They know Luck is 27, we are in a brand new rebuild, and the division is improving. If everything goes right, it still takes luck to win a SB. Like making a blind bet on a sports game, or looking at the stats and analyzing the situation. 

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I guess it has to do with the possibility vs probability view. You view the Colts being a good team or winning in the playoffs/SB on possibility. I think it's possible it'll happen. You build you argument that this and this could happen. Technically, anything that anyone could come up with is possible for any of the 32 teams, but it's mostly being said by you because you are a fan of the Colts and it's blind hope and optimism. Probability means that you put together all the positives and negatives about our situation, the risk and the reward, and try to figure out the likelyhood that it will happen. The reason people are gloom and doom that Luck is being wasted and we won't win a SB, is because they are putting the pieces together. They know Luck is 27, we are in a brand new rebuild, and the division is improving. If everything goes right, it still takes luck to win a SB. Like making a blind bet on a sports game, or looking at the stats and analyzing the situation. 

What you don't seem to understand that there is no argument. Just a different point of view. Your argumentative attitude makes it an argument to yourself.

[Myles]

Are they wasting him?   Currently, right now, No.   I think Ballard is doing some good things and I think that will continue.

Have they wasted him?   Yes of course they did.  The GM made poor choice after poor choice.  The roster has been full of holes for the last 4-5 years.  

I break it down like this:

A team needs a top 10 QB to advance in the playoffs.   Luck was/is one.  So the Colts have what Green Bay, Pittsburgh and New England have.  The difference is that those teams have been able to build something else around the QB.  Whether it is a decent defense, a good offensive line or a good coach.   The Colts failed therefor have wasted a few years of having Luck.

 

 

[DougDew]

Luck should have been put into a more of a WC-based offense from day 1.  Not a power-run, man-blocking, play-action, vertical, offense.

 

That philosophy came from the top.  Nowhere else.