Are we wasting away Lucks career?

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, MTC said:

 

If you click on someone's profile, there should be a display name history button next to their username.

I must be blind.....

[Steamboat_Shaun]

4 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Just 1 quick question. Well 2 really. If Aldon Smith plays, he's obviously going to be a beast. If Josh Gordon plays he's going to be a beast. You're actually talking about 2 top 10 players, maybe top 5. So.....And yes I know Aldon isn't a FA. Just examples. Nothing more, but I want an answer..

 

Aldon Smith for 16 games or John Simon?????

 

Josh Gordon for 16 games or Phillip Dorsett?????

 

I don't want em if they aren't re-instated. They probably will be though. But I DO want them when they are re-instated and if they can stay out of trouble and play the entire year. You're basically saying you don't want guys like that even if they would change our team drastically. IS that right?

 

Josh Gordon hasn't played since 2014, and Aldon Smith missed this entire past season, with his production taking a serious nosedive every year since 2012. Both of these guys, even if they've gotten control of their off-field issues, would be LUCKY to make a 53 man roster at this point of their careers, let alone be top 5 at their respective positions.

[Shive]

2 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

It's not that you disagree with the moves that we've made.  It's the tone and attitude about them that makes it hard to discuss with you.  It comes across as nothing but whiny, particularly when you repeat the same things over and over in every thread.  

 

Like I don't know much about you, other than you're the guy that always complains about why we haven't drafted/signed [pick your guy (in your case, I'll always think of Noah Spence when I see your name)] and because of that, this franchise is a dumpster fire.  Like, I get we didn't get your guy, that happens to all of us who follow the offseason and have favorites.  I wanted - still want - Dontari Poe, but if we don't get him, I'm not going to act like the season's over when we're only 1 week into the new league year.  

 

I'm really not saying this to bash you, I'm saying this for no other reason than I get that you care about this team.  That's a great start.  It's even better that you do some research.  I'll listen to you before whoever that one * Browns fan was that just came in here trumping Trent Richardson and how we're all blind followers 2 days after the trade.  But slow down with the overreactions.  I think I speak for all of us when I say we'd rather you disagree with us, even passionately, but dial down the whining and come back a year later and make us eat crow than do whatever it is you're currently doing.

I think I'm going to copy and paste this response every time he starts spouting off again. Couldn't be a more perfect response...

[TheRustonRifle#7]

This is why children and sugar aren't a good mix................

[IinD]

Yes and no.

 

We did lose out on any wiggle room we had for mistakes. If Grigs had been doing his job, this roster should by now have been pretty set for a 4-5 year run of success.

 

If by chance Ballard isn't very good and we struggle, yes we will have wasted Luck's talents. 

 

More like Jim will have wasted AL as he's the guy hiring these coaches and GM's.

[Superman]

6 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

Why is it so bad that I love my team???? That I want my team to win???? That I take sports serious? Doesn't all true fan? This is a Colts Forum. We're not casual fans. We're the fans who watch every game, games all day long on Sundays, and yell at the TV, and maybe more if the Colts lose. Its NOT ok to draft a once in a generation talent, then fail to put the necessary talent around him in 6 freaking years.

 

And as I said above....I do not wish for some unrealistic nonsense. Example.. I know we aren't going to somehow acquire freaking Von Miller. I just expect us to draft a guy or 2 who's a top tier EDGE rusher. Or (And I'm just using this as an example, GB re-signed him quickly, we had no chance) I want us to give a guy like Nick Perry big money to come in and change our pass rush. Etc, etc, etc.

 

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/begging-the-question

 

I'd like to point out that Nick Perry would be unlikely to change our pass rush. He's your typical free agency fools' gold, a player who has little production until he's in his contract year, then never matches that level of production again. The Packers can have him, especially at $12m/year. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

58 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/begging-the-question

 

I'd like to point out that Nick Perry would be unlikely to change our pass rush. He's your typical free agency fools' gold, a player who has little production until he's in his contract year, then never matches that level of production again. The Packers can have him, especially at $12m/year. 

What about a guy like Jabal Sheard who by all accounts shrunk and played pretty poorly in his contract year? 
Does he get brownie points for not performing well like Perry? 

[COLTS449]

3 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

It's not that you disagree with the moves that we've made.  It's the tone and attitude about them that makes it hard to discuss with you.  It comes across as nothing but whiny, particularly when you repeat the same things over and over in every thread.  

 

Like I don't know much about you, other than you're the guy that always complains about why we haven't drafted/signed [pick your guy (in your case, I'll always think of Noah Spence when I see your name)] and because of that, this franchise is a dumpster fire.  Like, I get we didn't get your guy, that happens to all of us who follow the offseason and have favorites.  I wanted - still want - Dontari Poe, but if we don't get him, I'm not going to act like the season's over when we're only 1 week into the new league year.  

 

I'm really not saying this to bash you, I'm saying this for no other reason than I get that you care about this team.  That's a great start.  It's even better that you do some research.  I'll listen to you before whoever that one * Browns fan was that just came in here trumping Trent Richardson and how we're all blind followers 2 days after the trade.  But slow down with the overreactions.  I think I speak for all of us when I say we'd rather you disagree with us, even passionately, but dial down the whining and come back a year later and make us eat crow than do whatever it is you're currently doing.

 

I know this isn't the point. But....Just want to point out that Spence came on strong with Tampa, got better and better as the year went along and is emerging into a beast. He had like 6-7 sacks this year and I expect him to be a force this coming season. I'm a little better at seeing talent in EDGE rushers than other positions. I knew he'd be good. I wanted Judon in the 5th or so. He showed A LOT of promise this year in limited snaps. I think we should have tried to trade up for Spence when he fell if it didn't involve us giving up a 1.

[throwing BBZ]

19 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Andrew Luck is a once in a generation talent. Not comparable to Matt Ryan. He is a top 5 QB and we're simply stupid for not putting playmakers all around him.

 

Obviously you aren't going to land every good FA, but if we had tried we would have landed a few by now. Probably Pernell McPhee, Ritchie Incognito, Casey Hayward among others. Its like if you go after 10 good players hard you're probably going to be able to get at least 2 of them. And I doubt we went too hard after Alshon. If we had of, we would have him most likely, and Perry was re-signed quickly.

 

And saying drafting Werner instead of Rhodes, or Dorsett instead of Kendricks isn't hindsight. Its common sense. Was then, is now. Trading a 1st for a ___ like Richardson was stupid. Obvious then, obvious now.

 

 I am pretty certain he has proven that once in a generation ___ was just hype.
 After 5 NFL seasons the guy still struggles with touch and accuracy in the short game.
 There are at least 8 QB`s i would take into next season before him.
  at your ridiculous, baseless, assumptions.

[Superman]

15 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

What about a guy like Jabal Sheard who by all accounts shrunk and played pretty poorly in his contract year? 
Does he get brownie points for not performing well like Perry? 

 

Not at all, but he isn't expected to change the Colts pass rush, and he didn't get anywhere near the contract Perry got.

[Shive]

20 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

What about a guy like Jabal Sheard who by all accounts shrunk and played pretty poorly in his contract year? 
Does he get brownie points for not performing well like Perry? 

I think Sheard's drop off in production was more due to scheme change than anything else. The Pats switched to a 4 man base front, so instead of predominantly playing 3-4 OLB, Sheard was mostly playing 4-3 DE, so a drop-off was expected. I wasn't too excited when he was first linked to us, but after doing some digging, I feel a bit better.

[COLTS449]

Best thing we can do is have a sexy draft and get 2 stud EDGE rushers, and a star ILB in the first 3 rounds. Then hit big with at least 1 of our 4th rounders (another ILB). Have 3 day 1 starters, and 2-3 guys who contribute and show big time potential, and end up starting at the end of the year or the next year.

[Jules]

9 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

Why is it so bad that I love my team???? That I want my team to win???? That I take sports serious? Doesn't all true fan? This is a Colts Forum. We're not casual fans. We're the fans who watch every game, games all day long on Sundays, and yell at the TV, and maybe more if the Colts lose. Its NOT ok to draft a once in a generation talent, then fail to put the necessary talent around him in 6 freaking years.

 

And as I said above....I do not wish for some unrealistic nonsense. Example.. I know we aren't going to somehow acquire freaking Von Miller. I just expect us to draft a guy or 2 who's a top tier EDGE rusher. Or (And I'm just using this as an example, GB re-signed him quickly, we had no chance) I want us to give a guy like Nick Perry big money to come in and change our pass rush. Etc, etc, etc.

 

Don't worry deep down most of us feel like you do at times during seasons but we have to put on the "internet I am chill act". Most are like "Oh man I am just so chill man......it's just a game and well even though I spend 12 hours a day on the forums all is well man.....like you know I don't over react like the children do and I know my stuff man."

 

 

 

I have slammed doors at times even after losses here......it usually btw happens after we lose to the Jags. Back when Manning was here we used to have that suprise loss to the Jags at times and I used to slam a door when it was over. Divisional losses when like some big azzz FG beats us or something or we just blow it make me sometimes go nuts.

 

This year when we lost in London I slammed a door. That whole game was a train wreck and I think Grigano was on the sidelines when it was over too I recall doing his best Jerry Jones impersonation.

 

I normally then when it's over do some deep breathing then put on a cooling facial mask asap.

[Chrisaaron1023]

47 minutes ago, Jules said:

Divisional losses when like some big azzz FG beats us or something or we just blow it make me sometimes go nuts.

 

lol we did seem to get beat by freakin 57 58 yard field goals.. I knew it was over week one when we let matt Stafford drive right up the field with no timeouts in 36 seconds

[Barrdaddy]

Without a doubt we have wasted some of Luck's years. We had one of the most if not the most incompetent GM's in the league with no eye for talent. It's a shame it took Irsay this long to see it and now it's going to be another 2-3 years before our roster is contender worthy defensively. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

clock is ticking on luck and me, at 73 years old i might not have as much time for them to win as luck, get it done colts

[MackAttack]

22 hours ago, Jules said:

 

We all could do a better job to help out Luck as fans.

Andrew luck is my main picture on YouTube and the background of my laptop

[VocableLoki]

1 hour ago, Jules said:

 

Don't worry deep down most of us feel like you do at times during seasons but we have to put on the "internet I am chill act". Most are like "Oh man I am just so chill man......it's just a game and well even though I spend 12 hours a day on the forums all is well man.....like you know I don't over react like the children do and I know my stuff man."

 

 

 

I have slammed doors at times even after losses here......it usually btw happens after we lose to the Jags. Back when Manning was here we used to have that suprise loss to the Jags at times and I used to slam a door when it was over. Divisional losses when like some big azzz FG beats us or something or we just blow it make me sometimes go nuts.

 

This year when we lost in London I slammed a door. That whole game was a train wreck and I think Grigano was on the sidelines when it was over too I recall doing his best Jerry Jones impersonation.

 

I normally then when it's over do some deep breathing then put on a cooling facial mask asap.

I don't think anyone has a problem with passion, though Home Depot probably appreciates your rampant door abuse, they are just asking for patience. Signing big free agents isn't an overnight fix and it's hard to argue we are wasting Luck at this point. I think there's reason to be patient and optimistic right now personally.

[Jules]

1 minute ago, VocableLoki said:

I don't think anyone has a problem with passion, though Home Depot probably appreciates your rampant door abuse, they are just asking for patience. Signing big free agents isn't an overnight fix and it's hard to argue we are wasting Luck at this point. I think there's reason to be patient and optimistic right now personally.

 

Oh I don't actually break anything. I am not a big woman at all or hardcore strong.

[VocableLoki]

1 minute ago, Jules said:

 

Oh I don't actually break anything. I am not a big woman at all or hardcore strong.

I figured haha, just making a joke 

 

[theanarchist]

23 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I agree that there is a lot of blame at Grigson but blaming him for any of Lucks injuries is taking it too far.

The way Luck plays he is more responsible for getting injured than anything Grigson did or didn't do.

He plays like Big Ben I agree. But Grigson's failed attempts at putting together an offensive was a huge failure and led to Luck being sacked at an unbelievable rate. So, Luck could get rid of it quicker and slide faster but Grigson had plenty of time and attempts at the plate to put an O line together an he whiffed, over and over and over again.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, theanarchist said:

He plays like Big Ben I agree. But Grigson's failed attempts at putting together an offensive was a huge failure and led to Luck being sacked at an unbelievable rate. So, Luck could get rid of it quicker and slide faster but Grigson had plenty of time and attempts at the plate to put an O line together an he whiffed, over and over and over again.

No one is doubting that.

Luck has hurt himself more from playing like a line backer than being sacked.

The Colts have had one of the top offenses in the league so Lucks play has hurt himself by a slow delivery and holding on to the ball too long.

Offense wasn't the problem. The offense had to deal with the lack of defense too much.

[Narcosys]

I skimmed through the first page of this special here's my thoughts. 

 

Yes we are..it's hard to believe luck is starting his 6th year now; even though we made the playoffs, we had no real business being there. We were lucky.  Luck has not impressed me all that much, with his inability to lead receivers consistently.  Out front office and coaching has failed the team, even though Pagano did the best he could with what he had to work with.  

 

With the moves TEN, JAX, and HOU have been making,  I don't see us being very successful in making the playoffs consistently and don't see us winning a SB in the second half of lucks career. 

[neug3246]

This is an interesting quote from Calais Campbell in an interview he did with why he went with the Jags. I want to point out his view on winning versus Pagano's view on "its hard to win football games in the NFL." How many times have we heard him say that since he became the head coach?? Any ways here it is. Also I'm gonna add in how he see the Jags and why we should not rule them out to compete in the AFC South and why I believe the AFC South isn't the weak division in the NFL anymore as the Jags and Titans are both increasing the talent.

 

KLEMKO: How does a team go from winning free agency and making a big splash in the spring to winning games in the fall?

CAMPBELL: To be a winner in the NFL, it’s about the way you prepare, the way you work. There’s a formula to it and it’s not hard; you’re going to lose games, but can you win the close games? Most of your season is made up of games that could go either way. That’s where you have to be prepared for any situation, and you have to execute. I don’t think it’s a mistake that the same teams always win. They have a belief that no matter what happens in a game, they’re not out of it. And they know not to relax when they’re winning. Couch Coughlin knows how to win. Coach Marrone has the right mind-set, and he’s someone I’m excited to play for. This team is so young, you can teach them how to win.

 

KLEMKO: Chris Harris and a couple other guys tweeted out some criticism after your decision, suggesting you didn’t want to win a Super Bowl. Did you see that?

CAMPBELL: I did. Everybody’s got their own opinion. I feel like the rest of the world doesn’t see Jacksonville the way I do. I think Jacksonville’s close. They lose 10 games last year by one score. I know how it goes with one-score games. We’re 13-3 in Arizona a year ago and won all those close games. Jacksonville is right there. We just have to find a way to win those games. They had the sixth overall defense last year and improved. Now we can get tighter, get some turnovers, and it’s a whole different ballgame.

 

Here is the full interview, its interesting and worth the read: http://mmqb.si.com/2017/03/15/calais-campbell-jacksonville-jaguars-nfl-free-agency-signing

 

[SilentHill]

Why isn't there an option for "TBD"

 

Because, you know, we don't know, if you know what I'm saying.

[crazycolt1]

16 minutes ago, neug3246 said:

This is an interesting quote from Calais Campbell in an interview he did with why he went with the Jags. I want to point out his view on winning versus Pagano's view on "its hard to win football games in the NFL." How many times have we heard him say that since he became the head coach?? Any ways here it is. Also I'm gonna add in how he see the Jags and why we should not rule them out to compete in the AFC South and why I believe the AFC South isn't the weak division in the NFL anymore as the Jags and Titans are both increasing the talent.

 

KLEMKO: How does a team go from winning free agency and making a big splash in the spring to winning games in the fall?

CAMPBELL: To be a winner in the NFL, it’s about the way you prepare, the way you work. There’s a formula to it and it’s not hard; you’re going to lose games, but can you win the close games? Most of your season is made up of games that could go either way. That’s where you have to be prepared for any situation, and you have to execute. I don’t think it’s a mistake that the same teams always win. They have a belief that no matter what happens in a game, they’re not out of it. And they know not to relax when they’re winning. Couch Coughlin knows how to win. Coach Marrone has the right mind-set, and he’s someone I’m excited to play for. This team is so young, you can teach them how to win.

 

KLEMKO: Chris Harris and a couple other guys tweeted out some criticism after your decision, suggesting you didn’t want to win a Super Bowl. Did you see that?

CAMPBELL: I did. Everybody’s got their own opinion. I feel like the rest of the world doesn’t see Jacksonville the way I do. I think Jacksonville’s close. They lose 10 games last year by one score. I know how it goes with one-score games. We’re 13-3 in Arizona a year ago and won all those close games. Jacksonville is right there. We just have to find a way to win those games. They had the sixth overall defense last year and improved. Now we can get tighter, get some turnovers, and it’s a whole different ballgame.

 

Here is the full interview, its interesting and worth the read: http://mmqb.si.com/2017/03/15/calais-campbell-jacksonville-jaguars-nfl-free-agency-signing

 

Is this on topic?

[neug3246]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

Is this on topic?

I guess what I was trying to point out with the "Its hard to win in the NFL" mentality I view this as wasting away lucks career. Also as the Colts fail to build a D and just overall fail to put talent on both sides of the ball around luck I would say yes, yes it is on topic. Just have to read more between the lines, that's all.

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, neug3246 said:

I guess what I was trying to point out with the "Its hard to win in the NFL" mentality I view this as wasting away lucks career. Also as the Colts fail to build a D and just overall fail to put talent on both sides of the ball around luck I would say yes, yes it is on topic. Just have to read more between the lines, that's all.

I read your comment and the link you provided and never seen any relation to Luck and the Colts.

While I think your subject is worth reading it really has nothing to do with the Colts and if they are wasting his career. After 'reading between the lines" I still don't see the relation to the topic.

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, neug3246 said:

I guess what I was trying to point out with the "Its hard to win in the NFL" mentality I view this as wasting away lucks career. Also as the Colts fail to build a D and just overall fail to put talent on both sides of the ball around luck I would say yes, yes it is on topic. Just have to read more between the lines, that's all.

Jags will be lucky if they even go 8-8 . They suck.

[neug3246]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

I read your comment and the link you provided and never seen any relation to Luck and the Colts.

While I think your subject is worth reading it really has nothing to do with the Colts and if they are wasting his career. After 'reading between the lines" I still don't see the relation to the topic.

The relationship to this topic is in a viewpoint from "Winning" from a head coach perspective and a now rival player and "building a team" around Luck versus what other teams have done in the same time period since we drafted Luck. The article doesn't not state anything about the Colts or Luck but in MY opinion as we failed to build the team when the other teams in the AFC South have and this culture of winning is hard in the NFL that Pagano has brought to the Colts is wasting away lucks career. To many games under Pagano we have not been prepared by came out flat in the first half and get in a huge hole having to play comeback football or coast in the second half to loose a lead. In Campbells first quote he talks about that type of prep and how he wants to bring that to the Jags. As not having a coaching staff with the same philosophy (or maybe they do IDK) I feel it is valid to the related topic.      

[neug3246]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Jags will be lucky if they even go 8-8 . They suck.

Yet we went 8-8 the past two years...

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, neug3246 said:

The relationship to this topic is in a viewpoint from "Winning" from a head coach perspective and a now rival player and "building a team" around Luck versus what other teams have done in the same time period since we drafted Luck. The article doesn't not state anything about the Colts or Luck but in MY opinion as we failed to build the team when the other teams in the AFC South have and this culture of winning is hard in the NFL that Pagano has brought to the Colts is wasting away lucks career. To many games under Pagano we have not been prepared by came out flat in the first half and get in a huge hole having to play comeback football or coast in the second half to loose a lead. In Campbells first quote he talks about that type of prep and how he wants to bring that to the Jags. As not having a coaching staff with the same philosophy (or maybe they do IDK) I feel it is valid to the related topic.      

So Campbell thinks the Jags have a winning culture and we don't, that is just crazy. They stink every season and have no QB. We have been one of the best franchises of the last 2 decades.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, neug3246 said:

Yet we went 8-8 the past two years...

Yeah and what did they go? What have they ever done in franchise history? They don't even compare to us regarding history.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

So Campbell thinks the Jags have a winning culture and we don't, that is just crazy. They stink every season and have no QB. We have been one of the best franchises of the last 2 decades.

The whole CC situation is very strange

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah and what did they go? What have they ever done in franchise history? They don't even compare to us regarding history.

They get a couple of trips to London and are driving distance from Orlando

[crazycolt1]

10 minutes ago, neug3246 said:

The relationship to this topic is in a viewpoint from "Winning" from a head coach perspective and a now rival player and "building a team" around Luck versus what other teams have done in the same time period since we drafted Luck. The article doesn't not state anything about the Colts or Luck but in MY opinion as we failed to build the team when the other teams in the AFC South have and this culture of winning is hard in the NFL that Pagano has brought to the Colts is wasting away lucks career. To many games under Pagano we have not been prepared by came out flat in the first half and get in a huge hole having to play comeback football or coast in the second half to loose a lead. In Campbells first quote he talks about that type of prep and how he wants to bring that to the Jags. As not having a coaching staff with the same philosophy (or maybe they do IDK) I feel it is valid to the related topic.      

We go 8-8 after going three 11-5 seasons and you bring the Jags into the picture about what they have done?

An 8-8 season does not bring the doom and gloom of what the Jags have been since the Colts joined the AFC south. Sorry, they do not relate.

[crazycolt1]

18 minutes ago, neug3246 said:

Yet we went 8-8 the past two years...

Yes that is true but what did the Jags do during those two seasons?

You speak of what they have done with building a winning attitude but the Jags have yet to finish even 2nd or 3rd in their division even after the Colts went those two 8-8 seasons. Sorry, you bring a bad comparison into this thread.

[neug3246]

 

8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

We go 8-8 after going three 11-5 seasons and you bring the Jags into the picture about what they have done?

An 8-8 season does not bring the doom and gloom of what the Jags have been since the Colts joined the AFC south. Sorry, they do not relate.

Well they kicked our butts the last two years and built a better D then what the Colts have built, just because their success hasn't been as good as our record doesn't mean they aren't getting better overall as a team. Watch them compete this year. It wouldn't surprise me if every team in the AFC South has the same division record next year with everyone splitting games with everyone even though I know that probably wouldn't happen.

 

Anyways dude its my opinion that it relates to the topic, and its your opinion that it doesn't, but I feel like I made a valid points in my reasoning why it does where you really haven't besides being closed minded in how you look at something.  

[crazycolt1]

5 minutes ago, neug3246 said:

 

Well they kicked our butts the last two years and built a better D then what the Colts have built, just because their success hasn't been as good as our record doesn't mean they aren't getting better overall as a team. Watch them compete this year. It wouldn't surprise me if every team in the AFC South has the same division record next year with everyone splitting games with everyone even though I know that probably wouldn't happen.

 

Anyways dude its my opinion that it relates to the topic, and its your opinion that it doesn't, but I feel like I made a valid points in my reasoning why it does where you really haven't besides being closed minded in how you look at something.  

So I am being closed minded with facts? OK, have it your way.

[neug3246]

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

So Campbell thinks the Jags have a winning culture and we don't, that is just crazy. They stink every season and have no QB. We have been one of the best franchises of the last 2 decades.

I think Campbell see them as a team on the rise and he wants to be a foundational piece to bring that winning culture to the team. Its a gamble on his part that may or may not win for him. Never once did he say that he doesn't Colts don't have s long history of winning.