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azcolt

By the time Luck is 30...

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perhaps Ballard will have built a playoff competitive roster. I suppose adding high priced free agents is a bad idea but obviously that means at least a couple years before his kiddie corps will be competitive. Meanwhile the other three members of the woeful South are no longer automatic wins.

 

 

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11 game win streak against Tennessee, I'm taking the Colts every time until Tennessee shows otherwise 

 

Houston is the team to beat. If they get Watson in this draft, the AFC South could be well in their control for at least the next 2 seasons. Still have Watt coming back and the draft to add even more defensive talent. And possibly a #2 across from D. Hopkins. Like a DeDe Westbrook or someone

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Agreed. That's why I have wanted Ballard to sign some big free agents. Because we could possibly have a very hard time finding a QB after Luck and be stuck in rebuild mode for years. I expect Luck to bring Indy a few more Super Bowls. 

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12 minutes ago, TKnight24 said:

11 game win streak against Tennessee, I'm taking the Colts every time until Tennessee shows otherwise 

 

Houston is the team to beat. If they get Watson in this draft, the AFC South could be well in their control for at least the next 2 seasons. Still have Watt coming back and the draft to add even more defensive talent. And possibly a #2 across from D. Hopkins. Like a DeDe Westbrook or someone

Watson is not going to come in and lead them over the Colts. Not a chance. 

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Relax.  FA isn't even over yet.  it's like 4 days in.  Please name a team that "won" Free Agency in terms of signing big name players that won the Superbowl the next year.......

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3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Relax.  FA isn't even over yet.  it's like 4 days in.  Please name a team that "won" Free Agency in terms of signing big name players that won the Superbowl the next year.......

Patriots with Revis. Broncos with Manning, Sanders, Ware, Talib, and TJ Ward.

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Just now, Flash7 said:

Patriots with Revis. Broncos with Manning, Sanders, Ware, Talib, and TJ Ward.

Broncos did not win it the first year with those guys.  It was at the end of year 3..... 

 

and the Patriots probably would have won with/without Revis.  But we'll chalk that one up. So 1 team.  

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11 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Relax.  FA isn't even over yet.  it's like 4 days in.  Please name a team that "won" Free Agency in terms of signing big name players that won the Superbowl the next year.......

Denver

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12 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Broncos did not win it the first year with those guys.  It was at the end of year 3..... 

 

and the Patriots probably would have won with/without Revis.  But we'll chalk that one up. So 1 team.  

1. Broncos immediately improved and then went on to the SuperBowl, losing to Seattle, then won it in year 3. My point is, due to the signing of the top FA players, the Broncos were consistently Super Bowl contenders. If FA is used correctly, you can "win Free Agency"  and can win Super Bowls -- they are not mutually exclusive.

 

2. The Patriots are known for taking away what the other team does best. They sign the best corners in the league, like Talib, Revis, or this year, Gilmore to take away the teams best receiver. Without a premier corner, their system doesn't work as well. Revis was a crucial clog in that system.

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31 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

Watson is not going to come in and lead them over the Colts. Not a chance. 

they beat us twice without him, its not that far fetched to think they will own us if they can find a QB

 

it may not be watson specifically, but if they can find anyone to be at least average then we are in some trouble

 

if they get romo and he stays healthy they win the division again, and its not close

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6 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

1. Broncos immediately improved and then went on to the SuperBowl, losing to Seattle, then won it in year 3. My point is, due to the signing of the top FA players, the Broncos were consistently Super Bowl contenders. If FA is used correctly, you can "win Free Agency"  and can win Super Bowls -- they are not mutually exclusive.

 

2. The Patriots are known for taking away what the other team does best. They sign the best corners in the league, like Talib, Revis, or this year, Gilmore to take away the teams best receiver. Without a premier corner, their system doesn't work as well. Revis was a crucial clog in that system.

Perhaps but lets not kid ourselves, the odds are against that happening.  the two teams mentioned right here have HoF QBs and both are in the discussion as to the greatest of all time.  As good as Luck is, he isn't Brady and he isn't Manning.  But again, the question was, the next year.  Broncos did it in year 3.  Only New England has pulled it off , and even then, signing one free agent, as big as he was, wasnt making a huge splash in terms of "winning FA". Guess it boils down to how we define it.  

 

Would I like to see some more moves with bigger targets, absolutely, but I also dont want to grossly over pay for someone that odds are isn't gonna play as well for whatever the reason.

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revis was a key piece for them that year

 

this year it was butler

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19 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

1. Broncos immediately improved and then went on to the SuperBowl, losing to Seattle, then won it in year 3. My point is, due to the signing of the top FA players, the Broncos were consistently Super Bowl contenders. If FA is used correctly, you can "win Free Agency"  and can win Super Bowls -- they are not mutually exclusive.

 

Getting Manning and drafting Von Miller with the 2nd overall pick in the same offseason sure didn't hurt. And they did make some nice additions in free agency outside of Manning, but adding him immediately transformed them from an 8-8 team in 2011 to a 13-3 offensive juggernaut in 2012.

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If, if, if Luck has protection and he can improve on getting his high passes reduced he could be the best. Think of it, him just standing in the pocket waiting and that would also open alleys to run. The possibilities are limitless. His success would also lend to long time consuming drives keeping the opposing offenses on the bench. Throw in a running attack and all the daily football talk shows will be saturated with Luck's name throughout the season. If, if, if......   

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Ballard appears to be building the right way.  Those who are worried about tenn and houston are missing the bigger picture.  Even tho our division has improved, they arent the "hurdle" we need to worry about.  Sure, we can bring in some flash to make us all feel better about ourselves, and we might hang a few more division banners, but we'll still fall short at Pitt, NE, etc.  unfortunately, we wont get the team WE WANT in one off-season.  We can work towards that team, and even have some success this year.  But lets face it, we have some holes to fill, and positions to improve. We'll get there. Spending big $ on free agents never works. Maybe if you have 1 or 2 holes, but not when your team talent-wise resembles swiss cheese.

Btw, His name is Chris Ballard, not David Copperfield. Give the man a lil time.

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23 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Perhaps but lets not kid ourselves, the odds are against that happening.  the two teams mentioned right here have HoF QBs and both are in the discussion as to the greatest of all time.  As good as Luck is, he isn't Brady and he isn't Manning.  But again, the question was, the next year.  Broncos did it in year 3.  Only New England has pulled it off , and even then, signing one free agent, as big as he was, wasnt making a huge splash in terms of "winning FA". Guess it boils down to how we define it.  

 

Would I like to see some more moves with bigger targets, absolutely, but I also dont want to grossly over pay for someone that odds are isn't gonna play as well for whatever the reason.

You "get it"

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By the time Luck is 30 we will be playoff competitive? We are playoff competitive now and should have a better defense this year. I would say by the time he is 30 we should hopefully be thinking about conference championships. 

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1 minute ago, VocableLoki said:

By the time Luck is 30 we will be playoff competitive? We are playoff competitive now and should have a better defense this year. I would say by the time he is 30 we should hopefully be thinking about conference championships. 

We aren't even a playoff team right now, let alone a competitive playoff team

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Just now, 21isSuperman said:

We aren't even a playoff team right now, let alone a competitive playoff team

Eh? We are certainly a playoff-caliber team, missed it by one win last year and should get better.

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50 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

1. Broncos immediately improved and then went on to the SuperBowl, losing to Seattle, then won it in year 3. My point is, due to the signing of the top FA players, the Broncos were consistently Super Bowl contenders. If FA is used correctly, you can "win Free Agency"  and can win Super Bowls -- they are not mutually exclusive.

 

2. The Patriots are known for taking away what the other team does best. They sign the best corners in the league, like Talib, Revis, or this year, Gilmore to take away the teams best receiver. Without a premier corner, their system doesn't work as well. Revis was a crucial clog in that system.

You realize they went to the SB before making the big splash in FA...I mean Peyton had them in the SB without Ware, Talib, Ward, and Sanders. That was a SB team before they made the additions....as have been NE. They are SB caliber team year in and year out with or without Revis. You can go for broke if you have that kinda team in place. We don't...we have a lot of holes to fill...that will require calculated spending and instinctive drafting. Maybe perhaps when we build our team to a playoff caliber roster we can take a shot at big free agent signings....less people forget a couple years ago...we were coming off the AFC Championship game...we went out and added Gore, Johnson, Langford, and Cole and people were saying we won the offseason....and then we proceeded to fall apart. Fact is building your team in FA is very different from adding the missing piece(s).

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1 minute ago, VocableLoki said:

Eh? We are certainly a playoff-caliber team, missed it by one win last year and should get better.

I don't think you can call us a playoff caliber team when we haven't made the playoffs since the 2014 season

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Relax. . . with good drafting, we could certainly have roster for the 2018 season that can compete for a SB. 

 

It doesn't take that long to turn around a team.  There are lots of worst to first stories in the NFL and we're not going to worst to first either.  For the most part the offense needs very little work.  Maybe an OL and a long term solution at RB.

 

Honestly the bigger concern I think is TY Hilton.  Luck and Hilton are about the same age.  But Luck's play is not likely to decline until his mid 30's.  Hilton though could decline quite a bit sooner.  He's a receiver who relies heavily on speed.  And those guys tend to decline faster then guys who rely on size.  

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Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

Reminder 

  Everything Will Be Okay

Yep...we had to be patient when we had Peyton and that turned out just fine. I don't think it matters who we add we likely aren't getting past the Patriots until at least Tom is gone or Andrew has that moment where it finally all clicks and he figures it all out. It took Peyton awhile but it was worth it...and will be for Andrew too.

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Just now, 21isSuperman said:

I don't think you can call us a playoff caliber team when we haven't made the playoffs since the 2014 season

Being a playoff-caliber team, to me, is having the ability to make the playoffs. We've been as close as can be the last two seasons after making it three straight, I think we are still very much a playoff-caliber team. 

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Just now, 21isSuperman said:

I don't think you can call us a playoff caliber team when we haven't made the playoffs since the 2014 season

 

It's hard to say. . . you can't really say until the season starts.  

 

But to be fair we arn't that far off.  Both seasons where 8 - 8 seasons.  At most 3 more wins would all that would be required to be a playoff team.  It's not like we're the Browns or the Jags.  

 

It's not a stretch to say we **could** be a playoff team this year.  

 

At the same time there is a big difference between could be a playoff team and are a playoff team.  

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1 hour ago, Colts1324 said:

Watson is not going to come in and lead them over the Colts. Not a chance. 

Are you serious? They swept us without Watt for round 2 and Brock as their QB. They could sweep us with any member of this forum playing QB, so why is it far fetched to believe if they get an average or above average QB that they wouldn't own us?

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6 minutes ago, VocableLoki said:

Being a playoff-caliber team, to me, is having the ability to make the playoffs. We've been as close as can be the last two seasons after making it three straight, I think we are still very much a playoff-caliber team. 

Well your original argument was that we were a "Playoff competitive" team right now. Don't move the goalposts on 21Supeeman. I think there's a huge difference between "playoff competitive" and playoff caliber" but that just might be my misunderstanding 

 

9 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I don't think you can call us a playoff caliber team when we haven't made the playoffs since the 2014 season

It really is hilarious. People still think it's the Manning days where we were an autolock year after year yet it's been nearly three years... 

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17 minutes ago, dgambill said:

You realize they went to the SB before making the big splash in FA...I mean Peyton had them in the SB without Ware, Talib, Ward, and Sanders. That was a SB team before they made the additions....as have been NE. They are SB caliber team year in and year out with or without Revis. You can go for broke if you have that kinda team in place. We don't...we have a lot of holes to fill...that will require calculated spending and instinctive drafting. Maybe perhaps when we build our team to a playoff caliber roster we can take a shot at big free agent signings....less people forget a couple years ago...we were coming off the AFC Championship game...we went out and added Gore, Johnson, Langford, and Cole and people were saying we won the offseason....and then we proceeded to fall apart. Fact is building your team in FA is very different from adding the missing piece(s).

thank you for saying what I was trying to figure out how to say.  100% agree with this. Well said

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I think you need a team that's within striking distance before you start trying to use free agency to get you over the top. The Broncos added Manning in 2012, then a few guys afterward. But they had a foundation already, built through the draft, and were good enough to win a playoff game with Tim Tebow. Almost all of their free agent additions worked out, which isn't typical, and they had a QB playing at an MVP level. 

 

The Broncos are NOT the model. They are a team that had a lot of favorable circumstances, and about 75% of their moves worked great. They are an anomaly. There are dozens of other examples of teams that tried to leapfrog their way into title contention using free agency, and almost every one of them failed. The couple that had a measure of success quickly fell apart. Impatience and trying to rush the process usually undermines the process, and you wind up further away than when you started.

 

If the Colts were 1-2 starters away from being a title contender, I'd be all about spending big for those couple of guys, right now. Sadly, they are not. They need starters at 5 positions at least -- CB2, FS, ILB, ILB, NT (and I'm being nice by ignoring our questionable RG/RT situation and our 33 year old RB) -- and they have no defensive game changers that have been consistent. The players at game changing positions typically don't reach free agency. The building process, especially at those critical positions, has to be done in the draft.

 

Luck's prime is probably the one thing I'm not worried about. You can't win a SB, and you certainly can't sustain success, without building from the ground up, no matter who your QB is. Build it the right way, and the success will come. And best case, even when Luck is done, you'll have a foundation that can lead you to continued success.

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22 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I don't think you can call us a playoff caliber team when we haven't made the playoffs since the 2014 season

We are a few dumb mistakes from being a playoff team. But that wouldn't matter as our last two 8-8 teams would get killed in the playoffs.

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9 minutes ago, VocableLoki said:

Being a playoff-caliber team, to me, is having the ability to make the playoffs. We've been as close as can be the last two seasons after making it three straight, I think we are still very much a playoff-caliber team. 

 

That's very different from the original assertion that we're a competitive playoff team.  We have the potential to be a playoff team simply because of Luck.  There are many teams that have the potential to make the playoffs.  In fact, there are so many that I don't think it's a significant distinction.  The Broncos went 9-7 and didn't make it, the Ravens went 8-8 and didn't make it, the Titans went 9-7 and didn't make it.  If you look at how many teams almost made it, you could list almost half of the AFC's teams as being playoff caliber.  The point is that even those several teams are playoff caliber, only 6 were good enough to make it.  Indy is/was not one of them.

 

7 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

It's hard to say. . . you can't really say until the season starts.  

 

But to be fair we arn't that far off.  Both seasons where 8 - 8 seasons.  At most 3 more wins would all that would be required to be a playoff team.  It's not like we're the Browns or the Jags.  

 

It's not a stretch to say we **could** be a playoff team this year.  

 

At the same time there is a big difference between could be a playoff team and are a playoff team.  

 

It's not a stretch to say we could be a playoff team, but that's the case for several other AFC teams too.  For what it's worth, the Titans and Broncos both went 9-7 last year, giving them better records than what we had.  That suggests they're close to the playoffs than we are.  And as you concluded, there's a big difference between could be a playoff team and are a playoff team.

 

Just now, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Well your original argument was that we were a "Playoff competitive" team right now. Don't move the goalposts on 21Supeeman. I think there's a huge difference between "playoff competitive" and playoff caliber" but that just might be my misunderstanding 

 

It really is hilarious. People still think it's the Manning days where we were an autolock year after year yet it's been nearly three years... 

 

I think that really makes Manning stand out.  Each year, we were a playoff lock.  Even in the injury-decimated 2010, we went 10-6 and could have beaten the Jets if Caldwell didn't call that silly timeout.  Manning was good for 4000+ yards and 30+ TDs every year.  I think Luck has that potential too if we simply give him a little more to work with.

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1 minute ago, bababooey said:

We are a few dumb mistakes from being a playoff team. But that wouldn't matter as our last two 8-8 teams would get killed in the playoffs.

The Broncos and Titans were even closer to the playoffs than we were.  It's not like we just barely missed.  We were several teams away

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13 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

The Broncos and Titans were even closer to the playoffs than we were.  It's not like we just barely missed.  We were several teams away

 

Not really. Beat the Raiders, and we're in. 

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18 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

The Broncos and Titans were even closer to the playoffs than we were.  It's not like we just barely missed.  We were several teams away

Collectively, blowing the lead against the Titans, and all the slow starts culminating in last minute heartbreak (Lions, Jags, Texans again). Get a last minute stop or convert a last minute drive and it's a very different story. I agree we would get stomped in the playoffs though.

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1 minute ago, bababooey said:

Collectively, blowing the lead against the Titans, and all the slow starts culminating in last minute heartbreak (Lions, Jags, Texans again). Get a last minute stop or convert a last minute drive and it's a very different story. I agree we would get stomped in the playoffs though.

We beat ourselves last season.

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2 hours ago, azcolt said:

perhaps Ballard will have built a playoff competitive roster. I suppose adding high priced free agents is a bad idea but obviously that means at least a couple years before his kiddie corps will be competitive. Meanwhile the other three members of the woeful South are no longer automatic wins.

 

 

 

So?

 

I don't mean to be flip,  but that's life in the NFL.      Nobody is promised anything and things change quickly.

 

Good teams become not so good, and poor teams get better.     Stuff happens.

 

As long as we have Luck,  we'll remain competitive and we've got a shot at more....

 

We just need to keep building....

 

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54 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Well your original argument was that we were a "Playoff competitive" team right now. Don't move the goalposts on 21Supeeman. I think there's a huge difference between "playoff competitive" and playoff caliber" but that just might be my misunderstanding 

 

It really is hilarious. People still think it's the Manning days where we were an autolock year after year yet it's been nearly three years... 

Moving the goalposts? Playoff-caliber and playoff competitive are the same thing to me. If you can get in the playoffs then you are competitive enough to reach them no?

 

No one is relating this to the Manning years but we haven't fallen off the face of the earth, I think it's reasonable to set expectations for the playoffs.

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