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After really breaking down film on TJ I noticed the things he does pretty well, and I noticed the things he needs a lot of work on. 

Pros: Uses long arms to get a strong press into receiver. Back pedals decently well but flips his hips fluidly either way and breaks quickly. And the obvious is his pure athleticism for such a long frame.

Cons: Instinctually raw as can be, this will be his 4th year of D in his life I believe. Gets lost reading the QB in zone coverage and losses the man crossing his zone. Ball skills need a lot of work, too many times he had solid coverage yet the pass was completed because he lost the ball mid-air. Needs to add strength to frame to help tackle better and shed blocks more effectively.

 

Where I ultimately think TJ Green will find success is as a match up nickel corner. If a team as an athletic TE or a big body WR he matches up on them. He definitely needs a lot of worker but I do think he can play a valuable role to this defense.

 

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The NFL isn't a good place to learn on the job. You can bet any decent NFL OC is going to exploit his inexperience.

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43 minutes ago, Colt-in-Jax said:

The NFL isn't a good place to learn on the job. You can bet any decent NFL OC is going to exploit his inexperience.

Learning is for the off season and the film room. Experience will have to be gained and he either improves or gets used to the bench. He has talent and tools to be a really good DB, but he was no where near it last year and we'll see where he's at this year.

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I'm not saying this to make anyone mad. Not trying to ruffle any feathers or anything like that but I think TJ Green ends up being another Grigson bust. They drafted him 2-3 round too high. He didn't have the experience or the skills to warrant being selected in the 2nd round. He ran real fast at the combine and he caught a couple of guys from behind on his college tape(because he was burned so badly he had to make up space and catch them). I really don't see this guy panning out. Having said that I hope I'm wrong and he becomes a great player. I just don't see it happening. My problem with him is that he just doesn't seem to have any instincts in coverage. Now when he gets burned he doesn't have enough speed to catch NFL WR's.

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If he can play better with a year's experience, his athleticism is a plus. Seems like his problems were mostly mental/inexperience. If his is going to be a FS, would like to see him with a little more bulk. At times, he gets a little over aggressive and takes stupid penalties.

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9 minutes ago, theanarchist said:

I'm not saying this to make anyone mad. Not trying to ruffle any feathers or anything like that but I think TJ Green ends up being another Grigson bust. They drafted him 2-3 round too high. He didn't have the experience or the skills to warrant being selected in the 2nd round. He ran real fast at the combine and he caught a couple of guys from behind on his college tape(because he was burned so badly he had to make up space and catch them). I really don't see this guy panning out. Having said that I hope I'm wrong and he becomes a great player. I just don't see it happening. My problem with him is that he just doesn't seem to have any instincts in coverage. Now when he gets burned he doesn't have enough speed to catch NFL WR's.

 

That's a fair enough position to take. This next year was always planned to be the more telling so fingers crossed with a years worth of coaching behind him that his technique and mental understanding of the game start to match his undoubted physical talents. 

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30 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

That's a fair enough position to take. This next year was always planned to be the more telling so fingers crossed with a years worth of coaching behind him that his technique and mental understanding of the game start to match his undoubted physical talents. 

 

Right, we'll get a better feel for him this season.  He wasn't expected to start or play as much safety as he did last season, and he's still learning.  As far as playing CB, it's different from high safety.  That may be asking too much.

 

Mayock had him listed as his 73 draft prospect and projected him as a 2nd rounder.  We all knew he was a risk/reward guy.

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He didn't look like he learned at all last year.  And got worse as the year went on.  Let's hope he put something together thus off season because I don't think I can handle having to replace a safety just 1 year after we took one with a second round pick.

 

Not to mention our other safety is apparently made of glass so there's no telling how he'll end up this year. 

 

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if TJ Green is one of those guys that gets casually cut a few years into his career.  Maybe we could make him a pr/kr? 

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1 hour ago, theanarchist said:

I'm not saying this to make anyone mad. Not trying to ruffle any feathers or anything like that but I think TJ Green ends up being another Grigson bust. They drafted him 2-3 round too high. He didn't have the experience or the skills to warrant being selected in the 2nd round. He ran real fast at the combine and he caught a couple of guys from behind on his college tape(because he was burned so badly he had to make up space and catch them). I really don't see this guy panning out. Having said that I hope I'm wrong and he becomes a great player. I just don't see it happening. My problem with him is that he just doesn't seem to have any instincts in coverage. Now when he gets burned he doesn't have enough speed to catch NFL WR's.

 

I'm with you on this.  The 2nd round isn't where you take developmental players.  And while he's a good athlete I don't think his athleticism is extraordinary when it comes to the NFL.  Maybe above average at best.

 

He's gotten WAY too much leeway with the "Well he's only been playing defense for a few years." which gave him excuses for blowing coverages in college and in the NFL.

 

Richard Sherman switched between WR and CB too and he figured it out.

 

Freaking Eric Swoope never played football before in his life but did a decent job at the NFL level after 2 years of learning on the practice squad.  

 

I really hope I'm wrong and I hope he turns into a great safety.  But to me we spent a 2nd round pick on a guy who should have gone much later because he was developmental and his position change in college has given him excuses for his inabilities for far too long now.  

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If experience helps with the mental errors then he has a shot. I think even in college he only had a year of starting experience if I remember right.

 

Even I college his technique wasn't ever great, he wasn't an outstanding tackler, not particularly great in coverage. He was just big and fast. 

 

If he doesn't prove coachable next year then I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the roster bubble next offseason. 

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Just now, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

He didn't look like he learned at all last year.  And got worse as the year went on.  Let's hope he put something together thus off season because I don't think I can handle having to replace a safety just 1 year after we took one with a second round pick.

 

Not to mention our other safety is apparently made of glass so there's no telling how he'll end up this year. 

 

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if TJ Green is one of those guys that gets casually cut a few years into his career.  Maybe we could make him a pr/kr? 

 

Geathers isn't made of glass, the problem with Geathers is the similar problem to Bob Sanders.  He runs up and delivers hard blows.  Fans and teams love that sort of play, but that sort of play also leads to you getting hurt.  

 

It's his playing style more then anything else.  

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We will see how he develops. Going forward the interesting thing for me was that this was probably a Pagano wish player that Grigson bought into for the wrong reasons. Maybe Grigson felt he had to throw Pagano a bone, maybe Irsay ordered Grigson to throw Pagano a bone given their tensions, we will never know.

 

The key thing is that Ballard and Pagano does not have a strained relationship, so I'm pretty darn sure that Ballard would never sign on this guy. It seems he likes players that are ready to roll (give and take some risk), but a 2. Round pick on an experimental player? I don't think so. Just a gut feeling.

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He was drafted way too high. I think he just sucked at WR so they figured out something else for him. They decided safety because there was nothing else. And in college, FS is a position where you can just coast by on athletics alone.

 

I think that's what Green is: just an athlete. He has no business playing safety in the NFL. People keep saying that he just needs time but there are certain things you can't just learn. Instincts are one of those things, and he doesn't have them. No amount of coaching is going to fix that. I think Ballard drafts another safety high to start over Green.

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I will say one thing that Pagano does well is coach up DBs well, Hopefully we see some major improvement from TJ this season.

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In the NFL, either you have it, or you don't. From what we saw last season, TJ isn't very good. All the signs are there of another Grigson bust. Laughable Green was picked in the 2nd Round. Probably could have gotten him in the middle rounds. Grigson was known for reaching for players

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3 hours ago, theanarchist said:

I'm not saying this to make anyone mad. Not trying to ruffle any feathers or anything like that but I think TJ Green ends up being another Grigson bust. They drafted him 2-3 round too high. He didn't have the experience or the skills to warrant being selected in the 2nd round. He ran real fast at the combine and he caught a couple of guys from behind on his college tape(because he was burned so badly he had to make up space and catch them). I really don't see this guy panning out. Having said that I hope I'm wrong and he becomes a great player. I just don't see it happening. My problem with him is that he just doesn't seem to have any instincts in coverage. Now when he gets burned he doesn't have enough speed to catch NFL WR's.

I agree with you.  I think he'll need a lot of help from the coaching staff to get to a place where we're comfortable with him.  I think Grigson and his scouts fell in love with Green's physical tools (size, speed) and thought those tools would be enough for the coaching staff to develop him into a reliable player.  My gripes with the coaching staff and their general inability to maximize talent aside, I think the only way he can be a reliable player is if we simplify things as much as possible for him because he doesn't have the instincts or experience.  Either let him play center-field as safety, roaming in the secondary and using his speed to cover and hit, or bring him into the box and let him play primarily as a run stuffer/covering short routes.  Another role where I think he could succeed is if the coaches have him add on about 20 lbs (bringing him to about 230 lbs) and let him play linebacker.  He'll still have enough speed to keep up with TEs and RBs, but could have the size to help in run support too.

 

Because of his physical tools, I think he could carve out a role with the team if the coaches really help him get there.

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3 hours ago, theanarchist said:

I'm not saying this to make anyone mad. Not trying to ruffle any feathers or anything like that but I think TJ Green ends up being another Grigson bust. They drafted him 2-3 round too high. He didn't have the experience or the skills to warrant being selected in the 2nd round. He ran real fast at the combine and he caught a couple of guys from behind on his college tape(because he was burned so badly he had to make up space and catch them). I really don't see this guy panning out. Having said that I hope I'm wrong and he becomes a great player. I just don't see it happening. My problem with him is that he just doesn't seem to have any instincts in coverage. Now when he gets burned he doesn't have enough speed to catch NFL WR's.

 

3 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

If he can play better with a year's experience, his athleticism is a plus. Seems like his problems were mostly mental/inexperience. If his is going to be a FS, would like to see him with a little more bulk. At times, he gets a little over aggressive and takes stupid penalties.

All of this. 

 

Watching him at Clemson leading up to the pick I wanted Tankersley, he was the safe pick. TJ was a very raw pick. In the end I think he'll end up being better than I expected, but he's definitely got some learning to do 

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Technically, he isn't a total bust if he becomes a ST hero.  He has the athleticism.

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15 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

Technically, he isn't a total bust if he becomes a ST hero.  He has the athleticism.

I think that's his best position. A special teams beast. He can be a gunner and probably return. I don't think he should ever start a game at FS again.

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57 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

In the NFL, either you have it, or you don't. From what we saw last season, TJ isn't very good. All the signs are there of another Grigson bust. Laughable Green was picked in the 2nd Round. Probably could have gotten him in the middle rounds. Grigson was known for reaching for players

You could have said the same thing about Landon Collins after his rookie year. So. No room for improvement? With our front 7 NO defensive back will look good.

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1 minute ago, imacoltfan said:

You could have said the same thing about Landon Collins after his rookie year. So. No room for improvement? With our front 7 NO defensive back will look good.

You can't use Collins as an example. He wasn't a reach where he was picked and he actually played safety all through college and was good at it. He wasn't some project player so there was reason to assume he'd get better. Can't say the same about Green.

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Rookie mistakes aside, Green was far and away the fastest player on the defense, and provided some of the best pass rush out of everyone when they sent him on blitzes. That's an easy thing to overlook considering he was really raw in pretty much every other aspect of his game, but definitely something to build on.

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4 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

Rookie mistakes aside, Green was far and away the fastest player on the defense, and provided some of the best pass rush out of everyone when they sent him on blitzes. That's an easy thing to overlook considering he was really raw in pretty much every other aspect of his game, but definitely something to build on.

I actually think Geathers looked faster. Not that it matters because fast doesn't win us or anyone else games 

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17 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

I actually think Geathers looked faster. Not that it matters because fast doesn't win us or anyone else games 

 

See, that's what I don't get. The consensus here is that our defense needs to get younger and faster, because being old and slow is actually causing us to lose games. If old and slow loses games, then young and fast should help to win games, no?

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3 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I'm with you on this.  The 2nd round isn't where you take developmental players.  And while he's a good athlete I don't think his athleticism is extraordinary when it comes to the NFL.  Maybe above average at best.

 

He's gotten WAY too much leeway with the "Well he's only been playing defense for a few years." which gave him excuses for blowing coverages in college and in the NFL.

 

Richard Sherman switched between WR and CB too and he figured it out.

 

Freaking Eric Swoope never played football before in his life but did a decent job at the NFL level after 2 years of learning on the practice squad.  

 

I really hope I'm wrong and I hope he turns into a great safety.  But to me we spent a 2nd round pick on a guy who should have gone much later because he was developmental and his position change in college has given him excuses for his inabilities for far too long now.  

Having two years on the practice squad is different than being thrown into the fire as a rookie... just pointing that out.

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6 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

See, that's what I don't get. The consensus here is that our defense needs to get younger and faster, because being old and slow is actually causing us to lose games. If old and slow loses games, then young and fast should help to win games, no?

Nope. Good players win games, a mixture of young and old. People just fall for tropes and such. Plenty of "slow" (not sub 4.3-4.4 40 time) players at every skill position that are much better than their faster counterparts. I'd take someone who actually knows what he's doing and knows the position he's playing than some scrub who has good speed and physical measurables. 

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1 minute ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Nope. Good players win games, a mixture of young and old. People just fall for tropes and such. Plenty of "slow" (not sub 4.3-4.4 40 time) players at every skill position that are much better than their faster counterparts. I'd take someone who actually knows what he's doing and knows the position he's playing than some scrub who has good speed and physical measurables. 

 

All that's true. But judging by his moves thus far, I feel like if Ballard viewed Green as a "scrub," he wouldn't still be on the team.

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Horrible player and a very sensitive person online.

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He had no real reference point from which to learn. Now he has plenty. Give the kid a break. Any tool to continue with the Grigson bashing. Like several people have said, I'll give him at least another year before becoming an NFL expert on him....

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17 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

All that's true. But judging by his moves thus far, I feel like if Ballard viewed Green as a "scrub," he wouldn't still be on the team.

I wasn't referring to Green as the scrub. Not yet he barely has a full season here. I meant more the guys that get signed purely for their height and speed which intrigues some football execs. Guys like DHB. 

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I'm going to see how Green does this year before really passing judgment. We know his rookie year was rough but he also wasn't supposed to play as much and kinda got throw to the wolves. In fact there's no better learning experience than that.

 

Now if he's constantly having the same issues this coming season, then it'll be easier to start calling him a 2nd rd bust.

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45 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

Having two years on the practice squad is different than being thrown into the fire as a rookie... just pointing that out.

 

Guy got to start 2 years in college at a defensive player.  Eric Swoope was playing basketball.  

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30 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

I wasn't referring to Green as the scrub. Not yet he barely has a full season here. I meant more the guys that get signed purely for their height and speed which intrigues some football execs. Guys like DHB. 

 

Bad comparison in some respects, DHB was a decent high school player at WR and had 3 productive years as college player on not the best offense, not many people batted an eyelid when he was projected as a 1st rounder. Green on the other hand was always a little bit of a gamble given his lack of college resume at safety (1 full season as a starter?) and I don't think even red shirted. Raw is an understatement. 

 

What I will give you is that both were taken for the prospect of pretty high ceilings, if DHB could have learnt to run routes and to soften his hands he could have been a dominant wide out. Funny how a few draft write ups of him compared him to Troy Williamson... :lol:

 

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18 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Guy got to start 2 years in college at a defensive player.  Eric Swoope was playing basketball.  

 

Green only started for one year, and Swoope got a year on the PS. If Green makes the same sort of leap that Swoope did than we'll all be happier campers I'm sure.

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22 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Guy got to start 2 years in college at a defensive player.  Eric Swoope was playing basketball.  

College isn't the NFL. Obviously his coaches didn't teach him too well.

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5 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Bad comparison in some respects, DHB was a decent high school player at WR and had 3 productive years as college player on not the best offense, not many people batted an eyelid when he was projected as a 1st rounder. Green on the other hand was always a little bit of a gamble given his lack of college resume at safety (1 full season as a starter?) and I don't think even red shirted. Raw is an understatement. 

 

What I will give you is that both were taken for the prospect of pretty high ceilings, if DHB could have learnt to run routes and to soften his hands he could have been a dominant wide out. Funny how a few draft write ups of him compared him to Troy Williamson... :lol:

 

Again I should clarify. I meant teams continuously signing DHB after he's shown to be imo a bust. My bad 

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2 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Again I should clarify. I meant teams continuously signing DHB after he's shown to be imo a bust. My bad 

 

Gotcha, you see it a lot with some players (Mingo?!), they've got the physicality and every coaching staff backs themselves to "fix" a player. Throw in that they're often cheap pickups and you can see how FOs talk themselves into it. 

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6 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Gotcha, you see it a lot with some players (Mingo?!), they've got the physicality and every coaching staff backs themselves to "fix" a player. Throw in that they're often cheap pickups and you can see how FOs talk themselves into it. 

Exactly. I'm not saying Ballard won't somehow make Mingo "productive" (99% chance he won't lol) but it's just crazy how often people sign these guys and they really don't add anything to the squad except fan gripe at their lack of performance because they hyped themselves up for them... 

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