Secondary

[Colts1324]

Figured I should post a thread about the secondary. Butler it seems is being shown the door by the colts, so that leaves us with Davis and Melvin as the only viable corners on the roster with Melvin likely being our No. 4 next year. Anybody else think Ballard has something in the works for a corner after releasing Robinson... and seemingly letting Butler walk?

[jvan1973]

I'm 100% positive Ballard won't go into next season with Melvin as our number 2

[Colts1324]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

I'm 100% positive Ballard won't go into next season with Melvin as our number 2

I hope not lol. But we need a serviceable number 2 before the draft in case all of the corners in the first are off of pur board.

[Bluefire4]

I could honestly see Melvin and a rookie competing for the second corner spot. I don't know what else we could do besides sign Claiborne which is a bad idea imo.

[Colts1324]

40 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

I could honestly see Melvin and a rookie competing for the second corner spot. I don't know what else we could do besides sign Claiborne which is a bad idea imo.

I think there might be some others available. I think Verner or Flowers could be a cheap 1 or 2 year deal for 2 or 3 million a year who could use a change of scenery. 

[akcolt]

53 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

I hope not lol. But we need a serviceable number 2 before the draft in case all of the corners in the first are off of pur board.

What do you have against Melvin? He played pretty well last year I thought. We don't have much behind Davis and Melvin so we almost have to add to the roster.

 

We could take 2.in the draft maybe get one in  FA too. I am not sure it's possible for all the CB's to be gone by 15. It's a deep draft for DB's. 

 

I heard we wanted to bring Butler back. It could be he's testing the market. Whatever is happening I am a fan of Ballard so far. Poe makes me nervous We will see about that

[rock8591]

What about signing Mario Harvey to play CB?

[Bluefire4]

25 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

I think there might be some others available. I think Verner or Flowers could be a cheap 1 or 2 year deal for 2 or 3 million a year who could use a change of scenery. 

Neither would be better than Robinson. Especially Verner.

[Colts1324]

21 minutes ago, akcolt said:

What do you have against Melvin? He played pretty well last year I thought. We don't have much behind Davis and Melvin so we almost have to add to the roster.

 

We could take 2.in the draft maybe get one in  FA too. I am not sure it's possible for all the CB's to be gone by 15. It's a deep draft for DB's. 

 

I heard we wanted to bring Butler back. It could be he's testing the market. Whatever is happening I am a fan of Ballard so far. Poe makes me nervous We will see about that

I like Melvin. Honestly he has potential. I just don't want to risk going in with him as our No. 2 corner. He did do well in his playing time for having limited experience.

 

Obviously there will be cornerback available. I'm saying if we have 3 corners who we grade as mid-first round grades when we pick,  and they all are taken, we don't take a corner. I'm sure Ballard has a plan in case that happens. Just don't know what it is yet. 

 

I just figured if we wanted Butler to be a Colt next year, we would have resigned him and not let him schedule visits with other teams. 

[funktacious2]

I'm not convinced Butler couldn't be back. No one knows what his situation is. Maybe he wanted to test the market, maybe we just don't want him at all, but there is still plenty of time for us to re-sign him. With the current state of our secondary I'd be happy to have him back for depth, but I would never think we plan to role out Davis and Butler or Davis and Melvin week 1. Somebody good could end up cut from another team, we could trade for someone, or we'll just draft someone in the first two rounds to push for the second spot.

[BProland85]

I think this is an extremely good draft for secondary players and that might be what Ballard is thinking about addressing in the draft. Ballard could stand to add 2 CBs, since Davis is not guaranteed to come back in 2018, and also a long term starting FS. I would love a Sidney Jones or Gareon Conley on this team. in the early rounds.

[MPStack]

I see the Colts 1st pick being a CB as a real possibility. I would have no problems with this. 

[LockeDown]

CB in the 1st seems like a real possibility.  Possibly have 2 star CBs on the field at the same time would be nice,  Getting a pass rush?  Even nicer though.

[Legend of Luck]

I think it's pretty obvious that, with corners being the strength of the draft, we're going to target that position and fill it there.

[Legend of Luck]

2 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

CB in the 1st seems like a real possibility.  Possibly have 2 star CBs on the field at the same time would be nice,  Getting a pass rush?  Even nicer though.

 

I actually think we are primed for BPA in the first round. If one of those stud pass rushers are there, we grab him. But if not, we can get a top corner and fill a need that way.

[bananabucket]

On 3/11/2017 at 3:43 AM, Legend of Luck said:

 

I actually think we are primed for BPA in the first round. If one of those stud pass rushers are there, we grab him. But if not, we can get a top corner and fill a need that way.

 

must... resist... OJ Howard...

[Dark Superman]

Don't ever rule out Ballard giving up a draft pick for a CB.

And we can draft one or two as well.

We really need someone opposite of Davis.

[Dark Superman]

3 hours ago, bananabucket said:

 

must... resist... OJ Howard...

I love him, but I'd be upset if we drafted him. I don't see it happening though. Deep TE class and Swoope looks very promising!

[richard pallo]

I definitely can see a trade coming.  Pats are trying to trade M. Butler and Rams are trying to trade T. Johnson after franchising him.  And of course there are corners on other teams that could be available.  I too think we will draft a corner but not necessarily with our 1st pick.  I think he has something in the works in this FA period. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

It's the best draft for corners in a long time. I'm not worried. 

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, Rick_Grimes said:

Don't ever rule out Ballard giving up a draft pick for a CB.

And we can draft one or two as well.

We really need someone opposite of Davis.

Actually, we need to think about having somebody capable of replacing Davis as #1 CB after this season.

[jet1968]

Colts current secondary is sub par and needs upgraded. Secondary would be a great place to use some draft picks on

[chad72]

18 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I definitely can see a trade coming.  Pats are trying to trade M. Butler and Rams are trying to trade T. Johnson after franchising him.  And of course there are corners on other teams that could be available.  I too think we will draft a corner but not necessarily with our 1st pick.  I think he has something in the works in this FA period. 

 

I'd do a sign and trade for Trumaine Johnson and give up the same second round pick we gave up for Vontae Davis. Rams are looking for a 2nd rounder, the last I heard.

 

Then, I'd turn around and sign Lardarius Webb for free safety and the Colts' secondary would at least be able to hang around with a decent pass rush.

 

However, this should come AFTER we sign our front seven guys in FA that we want, IMO.

[LockeDown]

5 hours ago, bananabucket said:

 

must... resist... OJ Howard...

I feel the same way. What a weapon he would be

[wig]

This is why the Robinson move surprised me unless there are medical issues I'm not aware of. I still think he can be a really good nickel. 

[aaron11]

7 minutes ago, wig said:

This is why the Robinson move surprised me unless there are medical issues I'm not aware of. I still think he can be a really good nickel. 

ballard is getting rid of people that havent lived up to their contracts.  just having potential isnt enough unless you are on a rookie contract it seems

[wig]

Just now, aaron11 said:

ballard is getting rid of people that havent lived up to their contracts.  just having potential isnt enough unless you are on a rookie contract it seems

It's more than potential. He was hurt last year but showed to be a good player previously. 

[aaron11]

5 minutes ago, wig said:

It's more than potential. He was hurt last year but showed to be a good player previously. 

its a what have you done lately mindset too

 

injures can absolutely be the reason for getting canned now

[dw49]

46 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I'd do a sign and trade for Trumaine Johnson and give up the same second round pick we gave up for Vontae Davis. Rams are looking for a 2nd rounder, the last I heard.

 

Then, I'd turn around and sign Lardarius Webb for free safety and the Colts' secondary would at least be able to hang around with a decent pass rush.

 

However, this should come AFTER we sign our front seven guys in FA that we want, IMO.

 

I don't like the idea of trading for a player we need to sign at around 14 mill per year. If it's a good draft for DB's , that IMO is the better path. If we just replace or resign Butler , we will be in the same shape we were in last year. Robinson hardly played and was terrible half the time he did play. My point is we can easily improve from last year without giving a monster contract to a guy like T Johnson. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

8 hours ago, funktacious2 said:

I'm not convinced Butler couldn't be back. No one knows what his situation is. Maybe he wanted to test the market, maybe we just don't want him at all, but there is still plenty of time for us to re-sign him. With the current state of our secondary I'd be happy to have him back for depth, but I would never think we plan to role out Davis and Butler or Davis and Melvin week 1. Somebody good could end up cut from another team, we could trade for someone, or we'll just draft someone in the first two rounds to push for the second spot.

While we dont know for sure what the situation with butler is, we have been given a few pieces of info that point to us not getting him back. We know he wants to be a colt, and it sounds like he has been in talks with them and pretty much only them. Unfortunately info came out yesterday that talks werent going well and he was starting to schedule visits elsewhere. Thats not a great sign. Doesnt rule out him signing here, but it isnt promising. 

[richard pallo]

53 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

I don't like the idea of trading for a player we need to sign at around 14 mill per year. If it's a good draft for DB's , that IMO is the better path. If we just replace or resign Butler , we will be in the same shape we were in last year. Robinson hardly played and was terrible half the time he did play. My point is we can easily improve from last year without giving a monster contract to a guy like T Johnson. 

I can see your point but I don't have a problem with it.  We would be trading for a top flight corner who is only 27 yrs. old.  The problem with any draft is the picks still have to prove themselves, Johnson already has.  Yes the draft is deep in CB and TE.  That didn't stop the Pats from signing a veteran CB in Gilmore or trade for a TE in Allen.  We most likely will draft a CB or TE regardless.  Starting the year with two lock down corners would be a huge improvement.  There is always a chance we trade back with our 1st. pick and pick up a second pick anyway.  I don't mind paying money for proven young talent.  The more I think about it the more it makes sense.  Something has to be brewing on the trade front.

[dw49]

27 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I can see your point but I don't have a problem with it.  We would be trading for a top flight corner who is only 27 yrs. old.  The problem with any draft is the picks still have to prove themselves, Johnson already has.  Yes the draft is deep in CB and TE.  That didn't stop the Pats from signing a veteran CB in Gilmore or trade for a TE in Allen.  We most likely will draft a CB or TE regardless.  Starting the year with two lock down corners would be a huge improvement.  There is always a chance we trade back with our 1st. pick and pick up a second pick anyway.  I don't mind paying money for proven young talent.  The more I think about it the more it makes sense.  Something has to be brewing on the trade front.

 

If Johnson is a top CB , then I would agree. I'm just not sure he's worth that kind of money , thus I would like to see the cap space spent a little differently. As for the Pats , it made perfect sense as they are flush with cap space , Brady is 39 years old and they are letting Logan walk. I'm not arguing with your thought process as it's solid. I'm just not sold on giving Johnson a monster contract. 

 

Plus the fact that the draft is strong in CB's does at least figure in a bit.

[chad72]

22 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

If Johnson is a top CB , then I would agree. I'm just not sure he's worth that kind of money , thus I would like to see the cap space spent a little differently. As for the Pats , it made perfect sense as they are flush with cap space , Brady is 39 years old and they are letting Logan walk. I'm not arguing with your thought process as it's solid. I'm just not sold on giving Johnson a monster contract. 

 

Plus the fact that the draft is strong in CB's does at least figure in a bit.

 

He is a top CB that can be made better with our coaching. The reason the Pats got Gilmore was they go after CBs that are a bit seasoned in free agency and then they feel the money is worth spending. Along those lines, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get Trumaine Johnson, IMO. 

 

Of course, the price has to be right. Vontae Davis' 4 years at $39 mil. seems like a bargain if he plays himself back to form this year.

[NorthernColt]

If we don't get one of the four 1st round cb's I'd be inclined to go Conley in the 2nd, and King in the 3rd back to back. Obviously its not panick mode yet but we really do have absolutely  zero cb depth right now.

[dw49]

34 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

He is a top CB that can be made better with our coaching. The reason the Pats got Gilmore was they go after CBs that are a bit seasoned in free agency and then they feel the money is worth spending. Along those lines, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get Trumaine Johnson, IMO. 

 

Of course, the price has to be right. Vontae Davis' 4 years at $39 mil. seems like a bargain if he plays himself back to form this year.

 

It's no doubt a question of if Johnson is worth giving both draft picks and the huge contract. I think no , some think yes. I don't think there's a definitive yes or no answer here. 

 

As to V Davis , it was a fair contract when written and this is the final year of that deal. I just wonder if he can stay healthy ? If it's not a knee , it's an ankle , if it's not a ankle it's a hip , if it's not a hip , it's a groin. He's a real bargain at 10 mill if he can play the season without being on the injury list 12-13 weeks. If this year is more of the same , you Johnson advocates could be right. At least we would have 1 solid CB going into 2018. 

[Colts1324]

12 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

Neither would be better than Robinson. Especially Verner.

 

4 hours ago, wig said:

This is why the Robinson move surprised me unless there are medical issues I'm not aware of. I still think he can be a really good nickel. 

I think Robinson was a good slot CB but obviously Pagano and Ballard talked and agreed he wasn't worth keeping around. 

[Colts1324]

1 hour ago, NorthernColt said:

If we don't get one of the four 1st round cb's I'd be inclined to go Conley in the 2nd, and King in the 3rd back to back. Obviously its not panick mode yet but we really do have absolutely  zero cb depth right now.

I like King a lot. Reminds me of Sherman when it comes to someone who is underrated in the draft but has potential to be a star. 

[Bluefire4]

13 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

 

I think Robinson was a good slot CB but obviously Pagano and Ballard talked and agreed he wasn't worth keeping around. 

Yeah and Flowers and Verner are not good either which is why they were let go. No reason to bring them here to be another 2nd cornerback failure.

[jameszeigler834]

14 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

I'm 100% positive Ballard won't go into next season with Melvin as our number 2

I wouls hope not he is a good backup but not full time starter.

[coltsfanatic24]

It's a passing league you can never have too many great CB's. I think we're drafting a CB in the 1st round.