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Gigc

I know it's early, but dang ...

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So far we've weakened our offense and our defense. 

We traded production --- whatever you thought of Allen, that was 50 catches and 6 TDs --- for a 4th round pick. (Go back and look at last year's 4th round; outside of Dak Prescott, there's not a lot there)

And we've let everyone who was a free agent on defense, and then some, go. 

Jabaal Sheard had 5 sacks last year; Simon 3 1/2, Mingo 0. That's 2 1/2 less than Erik Walden --- who we didn't re-sign.

And geez, go look at the CBs on the roster. Outside of Vontae Davis, there's no one! Especially now that we've let Butler walk away.

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Free Agency isn't over and we still have the draft. I wouldn't panic yet. 

 

Also rebuilding a team the right way is going to be painful at times and take a while. Just gotta hang in there. 

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I mean, the issue with comparing the sacks of Sheard and Simon to Walden is the fact that both of those guys were rotation guys who were behind someone (Sheard started for the most part, but was eventually benched for freelancing if I recall correctly). Simon has been behind Mercilus and Clowney, so his sack total will go up here if he's playing more, same with Sheard.

 

Yes we released Robinson too, but we can get a better player than him in the draft or free agency. I'm also perfectly content with giving all of Allen's targets to Doyle. He is just the flat out better tight end.

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19 minutes ago, Gigc said:

So far we've weakened our offense and our defense. 

We traded production --- whatever you thought of Allen, that was 50 catches and 6 TDs --- for a 4th round pick. (Go back and look at last year's 4th round; outside of Dak Prescott, there's not a lot there)

And we've let everyone who was a free agent on defense, and then some, go. 

Jabaal Sheard had 5 sacks last year; Simon 3 1/2, Mingo 0. That's 2 1/2 less than Erik Walden --- who we didn't re-sign.

And geez, go look at the CBs on the roster. Outside of Vontae Davis, there's no one! Especially now that we've let Butler walk away.

 

Simon and Sheard are probably an upgrade on Walden moving forward. We're thin at CB but we'll probably sign someone and pull one in the draft. We're moving in the right direction there.

 

It's the offense I worry about. I'm afraid we're heading back to being one of the worst teams in the league at running the ball. There are hardly any difference making linemen out there anymore, and it's not like it's a deep draft for linemen. I'm confident we'll pick up an RB, but he'd have to be pretty dang special to come in as a rookie and give us good production behind what looks like it will be a below average O-line.

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17 minutes ago, Gigc said:

So far we've weakened our offense and our defense. 

We traded production --- whatever you thought of Allen, that was 50 catches and 6 TDs --- for a 4th round pick. (Go back and look at last year's 4th round; outside of Dak Prescott, there's not a lot there)

And we've let everyone who was a free agent on defense, and then some, go. 

Jabaal Sheard had 5 sacks last year; Simon 3 1/2, Mingo 0. That's 2 1/2 less than Erik Walden --- who we didn't re-sign.

And geez, go look at the CBs on the roster. Outside of Vontae Davis, there's no one! Especially now that we've let Butler walk away.

 

Be patient, it takes time to build mediocrity.

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8 minutes ago, Track Guy said:

 

Simon and Sheard are probably an upgrade on Walden moving forward. We're thin at CB but we'll probably sign someone and pull one in the draft. We're moving in the right direction there.

 

It's the offense I worry about. I'm afraid we're heading back to being one of the worst teams in the league at running the ball. There are hardly any difference making linemen out there anymore, and it's not like it's a deep draft for linemen. I'm confident we'll pick up an RB, but he'd have to be pretty dang special to come in as a rookie and give us good production behind what looks like it will be a below average O-line.

We had a few offensive lineman last year that were rookies who were thrust into the lineup probably a little too soon. They did and will continue to improve. 

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Just now, SP_21 said:

We had a few offensive lineman last year that were rookies who were thrust into the lineup probably a little too soon. They did and will continue to improve. 

I do expect some progression, but it's not a pretty picture. First off, you're not realistically keeping 5 O-lineman healthy for 16 games, so you need at least a tackle and an interior lineman on your bench you'd be cool with starting if you had to. Secondly, I think we ranked 25th best O-line per PFF. We'd need to jump spots to even crack the 50th percentile. I think that's pretty much our absolute ceiling next year if we can't add any difference makers - average if the stars align. 

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2 minutes ago, Track Guy said:

I do expect some progression, but it's not a pretty picture. First off, you're not realistically keeping 5 O-lineman healthy for 16 games, so you need at least a tackle and an interior lineman on your bench you'd be cool with starting if you had to. Secondly, I think we ranked 25th best O-line per PFF. We'd need to jump spots to even crack the 50th percentile. I think that's pretty much our absolute ceiling next year if we can't add any difference makers - average if the stars align. 

Even if we did sign one of the top FA offensive lineman it's not a guarantee they perform well in Indy. 

 

Were in the beginning of a rebuild. It's gonna take some time before everything comes together. And although I'd have loved to sign some FAs, they are expensive and I can understand why the Colts wouldn't want to. 

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42 minutes ago, Gigc said:

So far we've weakened our offense and our defense. 

We traded production --- whatever you thought of Allen, that was 50 catches and 6 TDs --- for a 4th round pick. (Go back and look at last year's 4th round; outside of Dak Prescott, there's not a lot there)

And we've let everyone who was a free agent on defense, and then some, go. 

Jabaal Sheard had 5 sacks last year; Simon 3 1/2, Mingo 0. That's 2 1/2 less than Erik Walden --- who we didn't re-sign.

And geez, go look at the CBs on the roster. Outside of Vontae Davis, there's no one! Especially now that we've let Butler walk away.

 

Sheard and Simon are better deals for us than Walden. In 3 years Walden will be 35, while they will only be just gone 30, so their still in their prime during the contact unlike Walden. Also as a previous poster pointed out, they were rotational players with the Texans and Pats so their production should go up, while Walden's will likely slide as he gets quite older.

 

Also I think will will draft an OLB early in the draft, so along with the  three new guys and Ayers we finally have decent depth, not all over 30 and all on affordable low risk contracts. Ballard said he will build through the draft and supplement his squad with affordable players. His strategy is sound imo. 

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49 minutes ago, Gigc said:

So far we've weakened our offense and our defense. 

We traded production --- whatever you thought of Allen, that was 50 catches and 6 TDs --- for a 4th round pick. (Go back and look at last year's 4th round; outside of Dak Prescott, there's not a lot there)

And we've let everyone who was a free agent on defense, and then some, go. 

Jabaal Sheard had 5 sacks last year; Simon 3 1/2, Mingo 0. That's 2 1/2 less than Erik Walden --- who we didn't re-sign.

And geez, go look at the CBs on the roster. Outside of Vontae Davis, there's no one! Especially now that we've let Butler walk away.


Almost none of this matters.....

 

We're not playing a game next week.....    or next month....

 

We don't play a game until September.....

 

There's lots of time to do all sorts of things....

 

Think of it as a marathon.    It doesn't make a difference who is in first after the first mile.....     it only matters who is in first after the last mile.

 

Patience is a virtue.....    especially for a fan!

 

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Just now, NewColtsFan said:

Almost none of this matters.....

 

True story.

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4 minutes ago, SP_21 said:

Even if we did sign one of the top FA offensive lineman it's not a guarantee they perform well in Indy. 

 

Were in the beginning of a rebuild. It's gonna take some time before everything comes together. And although I'd have loved to sign some FAs, they are expensive and I can understand why the Colts wouldn't want to. 

I guess you can say that about any player no matter their position, but I think you've got to at least try. Not saying we needed to throw 12 mil at Zeitler, I can agree with you that we could take another approach... But on the other hand I'm already expecting us to be one of the worst running teams in 2017 once again. Frank Gore is only getting older. 

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Just now, Track Guy said:

I guess you can say that about any player no matter their position, but I think you've got to at least try. Not saying we needed to throw 12 mil at Zeitler, I can agree with you that we could take another approach... But on the other hand I'm already expecting us to be one of the worst running teams in 2017 once again. Frank Gore is only getting older. 

I haven't paid much attention to O-line this offseason but I think there are some interesting guys who will be available in the middle rounds. Although if we draft one it probably won't help much in '17...

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4 minutes ago, SP_21 said:

I haven't paid much attention to O-line this offseason but I think there are some interesting guys who will be available in the middle rounds. Although if we draft one it probably won't help much in '17...

I agree, if we're going to get an O-lineman in the draft... We're probably either taking a guy like Forrest Lamp who is pro ready with our first pick... Or picking up a guy who won't crack our starting 5 in '17. 

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They're definitely not in a win now mode so I think that mindset of going all in should be put on the backburner.

 

Even before the cuts our D was * poor. Sucks to waste a couple years of Luck, but they had their small chance with Luck on his rookie deal, but Grigs slowly let this roster become crap.

 

Aside from a couple stars we need players everywhere. I'd suggest lowering those super bowl aspirations for at least a couple seasons. 

 

Must get our stars in the draft. We didn't buy guys like Marvin, Reggie, Dwight, Robert, Dallas etc.....

 

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For every 10 posts showing excitement for the changes..There are posts like this one

watchthetape.jpg

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Well, you know what? They should be in a win-now mode. 

We were 8-8 last year. One more win and we're in the playoffs. We were 37 seconds away from winning the opening game in Detroit. 37 seconds and we're in the playoffs. 

Right now, the strength of our team --- the one we should hone --- is our offense. I'm pretty sure that's one reason Ballard was rumored to be interested in Alshon Jeffereys. 

Now, because we traded Allen, we have to pick another TE  --- so that pick we got? pretty much seems to be targeted for TE. 

We started the week with 7 draft picks. We now have 7 draft picks (because we had to give NE our 6th rounder WITH Allen to get NE's 4th. 

Meanwhile, really good teams DO take big swings. Look at what New England (Grrrrrr) has done. They lose Martellus Bennett. They pick up Dwayne Allen (50 catches, 6 TDS). They sign Stephon Gilmore, one of the "bigger" free agents. They trade their 1st for Brandin Cooks! No Slouch. 

 


Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to watch and wait. but I really hate the idea that we have "tear down" what's here. We have Andrew Luck. This is not rebuilding. It's tweaking

I know, I'm tweaking.

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42 minutes ago, Track Guy said:

I agree, if we're going to get an O-lineman in the draft... We're probably either taking a guy like Forrest Lamp who is pro ready with our first pick... Or picking up a guy who won't crack our starting 5 in '17. 

Not true. haeg and clark both had starts.

sometimes guys bloseom in camp.

i understandcwhat you mean tho.

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46 minutes ago, Gigc said:

Well, you know what? They should be in a win-now mode. 

We were 8-8 last year. One more win and we're in the playoffs. We were 37 seconds away from winning the opening game in Detroit. 37 seconds and we're in the playoffs. 

Right now, the strength of our team --- the one we should hone --- is our offense. I'm pretty sure that's one reason Ballard was rumored to be interested in Alshon Jeffereys. 

Now, because we traded Allen, we have to pick another TE  --- so that pick we got? pretty much seems to be targeted for TE. 

We started the week with 7 draft picks. We now have 7 draft picks (because we had to give NE our 6th rounder WITH Allen to get NE's 4th. 

Meanwhile, really good teams DO take big swings. Look at what New England (Grrrrrr) has done. They lose Martellus Bennett. They pick up Dwayne Allen (50 catches, 6 TDS). They sign Stephon Gilmore, one of the "bigger" free agents. They trade their 1st for Brandin Cooks! No Slouch. 

 


Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to watch and wait. but I really hate the idea that we have "tear down" what's here. We have Andrew Luck. This is not rebuilding. It's tweaking

I know, I'm tweaking.

 

First off,  as Ballard and Pagano both said in recent press conferences,  EVERYONE is in WIN NOW mode in the NFL.      But some are closer than others to making it a reality.

 

Second,   I don't see us "tearing down" anything....    we're building on the fly.    You prone off the dead wood you don't think will help and you go out and buy some pieces and draft some pieces.      But expectations need to be reasonable.

 

We had the 30th ranked defense last year.     We were old and slow.    We need to get younger, faster and more athletic.      That takes time to build.     It doesn't happen over one off-season.    We're going to need two or three seasons to build a championship level defense.    That's our reality.

 

Doesn't mean we can't win the South this year.    But making a deep run in the playoffs is doubtful.     Possible,  but not likely.     

 

 

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I think we are fine, people are over reacting bc we are not signing who they want. I have seen so post on here stating if we have a slight improvement on D we will be significantly better. Which I agree with. What I am more scared of is what is happening in Dallas that no one on here is talking about. I dont think Romo is gonna get traded like Dallas wants so everyone is at a Mexican standoff. If he goes to either the Texans or the Jags which I see as his to best landing spots when the Cowboys finally do release him they will be playoff contenders if Romo stays healthy. I firmly believe the AFC South is on the rise fast and its not the pushover division like everyone thinks it is.

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There is still time and money left for us to continue to improve in free agency. Philosophically, I believe, and I know we've all heard this a lot, free agency should be used to round out the rough edges of your roster and patch holes. Going into this offseason Akeem Ayers is our best pass rusher... Ayers. Not just one major pass rusher is going to turn this roster around. So we spent our money wisely and we picked up 3 guys who are  already just as good as Ayers (and IMO two of them are definitely better). This gives us much needed depth, enough depth IMO I don't feel like we HAVE to draft two pass rushers in the first 3 rounds anymore. And that's exactly what a good free agency does. It rounds things out and patches things up, so that you don't have to go into the draft feeling you might have to reach for a position a need. You can afford to stick more closely to your board and get the best talent available. It doesn't aways work out perfect, but it's a great proven recipe for success.

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6 hours ago, SP_21 said:

Even if we did sign one of the top FA offensive lineman it's not a guarantee they perform well in Indy. 

 

Were in the beginning of a rebuild. It's gonna take some time before everything comes together. And although I'd have loved to sign some FAs, they are expensive and I can understand why the Colts wouldn't want to. 

Exactly, it's not a complete rebuild, but it is in a sense. It has to be, we've been in a talent drought for the past few years, and it's enough of a drought we can't come back from it in one season. I can see why fans want to get excited and see us sign these big names who, in fairness, could have a big impact on the field for us, but long-term I don't think it's the right solution. It's kind a numbers game and if you play it well, it should work out better for you. You have two scenarios and both have X amount of cap space:

 

Scenario 1: Team spends nearly all of its cap space on 2-3 major signings, the team signs zero to very little mid-level players

 

Scenario 2: Team spends most of its cap on 4-5 mid-level signings or a combination of mid-level signing and extended contracts of players already on the roster.

 

Is one scenario inherently worse than the other? In my opinion, no, but they are suited for two entirely different situations a franchise can be in. Scenario 1 is more suited for a team that already has a playoff roster and is looking for additions that will take them over the hump and give them 3-4 years of a chance at a superbowl. Scenario 2 is better suited for nearly all teams who weren't in playoff contention. Scenario 2 is more geared to the future. In scenario 1 you are passing on opportunities on rounding out your roster by  providing depth because you are willing to trust that you roster is fine and needs positional upgrades. We are not in playoff contention and that is nowhere where we are as a roster. Our defense is decimated in the secondary and LB core. We have young guys on the roster to be optimistic about but nothing to feel solid about. Our D-line has plenty of room to improve. We need a running back for now and the future, as well as we need to see improvement in the o-line. We don't look like a team who is ready to just sign 3 big guys and hope our rookies in the draft fill in the cracks. It should be the other way around. Fill the cracks with mid-level veteran, extend the contracts of your good players, and draft well for a few year years. If you draft well then soon you have a roster of younger, less expensive guys. And you pay your stars. Once your roster proves it on the field then maybe you make a really aggressive free agency push. Just my two cents. We have to have patience. "Rome wasn't built in a day" I guess.

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Our defense has had so many mismatched parts with no real leader and no real identity the last few years.  Ballard is pulling in Pats, Texans and possibly Chiefs guys.   Great defensive teams, ....guys that are missing pieces to a new puzzle that hopefully make sense.  In one year, it is quite possible to turn a defense around and at least point it in the right direction.  

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We're rebuilding and it's the end of day 2 of FA. 

 

Still lots of good FAs out there.

 

Give it til post draft at least to judge.

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8 hours ago, Gigc said:

So far we've weakened our offense and our defense. 

We traded production --- whatever you thought of Allen, that was 50 catches and 6 TDs --- for a 4th round pick. (Go back and look at last year's 4th round; outside of Dak Prescott, there's not a lot there)

And we've let everyone who was a free agent on defense, and then some, go. 

Jabaal Sheard had 5 sacks last year; Simon 3 1/2, Mingo 0. That's 2 1/2 less than Erik Walden --- who we didn't re-sign.

And geez, go look at the CBs on the roster. Outside of Vontae Davis, there's no one! Especially now that we've let Butler walk away.

I wouldn't say we have weakened our offense or the defense Allen had 5 td's swoope is a better receiver than Allen so I think that production can be replaced now defense I think we got a little bit younger and faster so time will tell how it works out.

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Let's trade Dorsett to Arizona for Fitz and 3rd. Just like Browns trade for Osweiler. Arians likes speedsters (Avery), and Arizona needs cap space badly. Then sign T.J. Lang and Robert Turbin, draft Howard and Mixon, cut Gore. :))

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10 hours ago, Gigc said:

Well, you know what? They should be in a win-now mode. 

We were 8-8 last year. One more win and we're in the playoffs. We were 37 seconds away from winning the opening game in Detroit. 37 seconds and we're in the playoffs. 

Right now, the strength of our team --- the one we should hone --- is our offense. I'm pretty sure that's one reason Ballard was rumored to be interested in Alshon Jeffereys. 

Now, because we traded Allen, we have to pick another TE  --- so that pick we got? pretty much seems to be targeted for TE. 

We started the week with 7 draft picks. We now have 7 draft picks (because we had to give NE our 6th rounder WITH Allen to get NE's 4th. 

Meanwhile, really good teams DO take big swings. Look at what New England (Grrrrrr) has done. They lose Martellus Bennett. They pick up Dwayne Allen (50 catches, 6 TDS). They sign Stephon Gilmore, one of the "bigger" free agents. They trade their 1st for Brandin Cooks! No Slouch. 

 


Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to watch and wait. but I really hate the idea that we have "tear down" what's here. We have Andrew Luck. This is not rebuilding. It's tweaking

I know, I'm tweaking.

*35 catches bud. Don't think Dwayne Allen ever has had 50 catches in a season. You cry over him, I'll be watching Doyle score TDs. NE made great moves this off season, I bet money DA is not one of them

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Relax.

At least wait until after the draft and see what we got going on in TC.

Ballard can still make a trade or two before, during or after the draft.

We made some positive moves yesterday.

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16 hours ago, Gigc said:

Well, you know what? They should be in a win-now mode. 

We were 8-8 last year. One more win and we're in the playoffs. We were 37 seconds away from winning the opening game in Detroit. 37 seconds and we're in the playoffs. 

Right now, the strength of our team --- the one we should hone --- is our offense. I'm pretty sure that's one reason Ballard was rumored to be interested in Alshon Jeffereys. 

Now, because we traded Allen, we have to pick another TE  --- so that pick we got? pretty much seems to be targeted for TE. 

We started the week with 7 draft picks. We now have 7 draft picks (because we had to give NE our 6th rounder WITH Allen to get NE's 4th. 

Meanwhile, really good teams DO take big swings. Look at what New England (Grrrrrr) has done. They lose Martellus Bennett. They pick up Dwayne Allen (50 catches, 6 TDS). They sign Stephon Gilmore, one of the "bigger" free agents. They trade their 1st for Brandin Cooks! No Slouch. 

 


Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to watch and wait. but I really hate the idea that we have "tear down" what's here. We have Andrew Luck. This is not rebuilding. It's tweaking

I know, I'm tweaking.

 

 We won 8 games with a 5 win roster. With No chance to do squat in the playoffs.
 If you can`t see we need a total rebuild of our D and our O-Line with Castonzo & Mewhort is not that good,
 you just don`t get it. And yes, Frank is OLD!
  I`m sure Belechick gets a big kick out of showing us he can retool year after year and still Kick
 everyone's ___! 
  Ballards background gives me great hope he can build the ......  solid D/Team.

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17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


Almost none of this matters.....

 

We're not playing a game next week.....    or next month....

 

We don't play a game until September.....

 

There's lots of time to do all sorts of things....

 

Think of it as a marathon.    It doesn't make a difference who is in first after the first mile.....     it only matters who is in first after the last mile.

 

Patience is a virtue.....    especially for a fan!

 

Exactly! 

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