Sign Kap to backup Luck?

[lollygagger8]

14 hours ago, Superman said:

 

You should have left this out. It's not debatable that Kap is better than a lot of QBs on rosters right now. There's only one reason he doesn't have a job right now. 

 

Man, have you ever seen that movie Frozen? 

 

[BloodyChamp]

This forum usually treads lightly on guys like Kaep but ya'll nailed it this time lol! Heck hasn't Tolzien had a couple of good games in a row? Including the Steelers comeback that the *s calling the plays blew?

[southwest1]

It looks like Kaps NFL playing days are systematically over. Seattle was the only team that fly him in & even they passed on him even as a backup to Wilson.  I don't recall hearing that Pete even asked Collin to throw the ball or demonstrate his footwork either. 

 

Regarding being a second string QB to Luck, that will never happen. It looks as though the league has slammed the door on Collin permanently. 

 

I don't mind debate questions like this when shoulder pads have not even been put on yet, but Kap is done putting on a uniform. Even the Jets said no thank you & that team will be miserable this yr. 

[Narcosys]

I am actually split over this. 

 

I have no problem with him personally. His stance and opinions are his own, and he is allowed to do as he wishes. I do not see his opinions as a reflection of the organization. Do I agree with his method no, but I understand his message.

 

I am split because I know he can be a good player, but would he fit well in this system with his playstyle?  I am not sure it would be a good fit. He is use to something completely different and if he were to become the starter, our offense would need to shift some in order to get the most out of Kaepernick.

[TheMarine]

RG3 has the same tool set, 0 controversies on the play field (apart from fragility). Still not employed. 

 

Few teams have a free-wheeling QB: Seattle does somewhat... who else? Buffalo? Kap would be a change of pace guy to 90% of the teams in the NFL or a gimmick. Same can be said of RG3. 

 

If the dude could play the pocket consistently, he'd have a job in the NFL. Simple. I do think he'll be signed at some point, but probably not until someone's QB goes down. 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 6/21/2017 at 8:51 AM, TheMarine said:

RG3 has the same tool set, 0 controversies on the play field (apart from fragility). Still not employed. 

 

Few teams have a free-wheeling QB: Seattle does somewhat... who else? Buffalo? Kap would be a change of pace guy to 90% of the teams in the NFL or a gimmick. Same can be said of RG3. 

 

If the dude could play the pocket consistently, he'd have a job in the NFL. Simple. I do think he'll be signed at some point, but probably not until someone's QB goes down. 

 

 

^^^  This ^^^  {bold part}

 

DC's have figured the guy out, and until Colin can demonstrate he has the knowledge and desire to stand in the pocket and recognize a defense (and anticipate the D audibles called to adjust to their O set) and go through all of the throwing progressions and accurately and quickly deliver the ball to the open receiver, he may well not get another shot.  The NFL QB graveyard is littered with many high potential, multifaceted QB's that fizzled quickly and permanently once their tendencies were dissected by good defensive coordinators. IE: Vince Young, RG III, why I even place EJ Manual there... among others. 

 

Gimmicks, speed, and flash in a QB excite, but without pocket proficiency, has a short life in the NFL.

[HectorRoberts]

There are so many reasons why we should never sign him....

1 he's disrespectful

2 he's a bad qb

3 he want to much money

4 he's a distraction 

5 he's not team player

 

maybe he should do want he does best and just take a knee for the next few years 

[Dingus McGirt]

On 3/10/2017 at 3:40 AM, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

Kap is looking for a place where he at least has a chance to play and hopefully start.

 

That place is not Indianapolis.     So, I'd pass on that option and hope that he finds a good place to land.

 

Yes...a snake pit or some such.

[philba101]

I think we can all agree that after two straight 8-8 seasons that the Colts need a lot of things, a distraction on and off the field is not one of them.

[dudley dawson]

On 7/3/2017 at 3:58 PM, HectorRoberts said:

There are so many reasons why we should never sign him....

1 he's disrespectful

2 he's a bad qb

3 he want to much money

4 he's a distraction 

5 he's not team player

 

maybe he should do want he does best and just take a knee for the next few years 

5 false reasons.  Way to go!

[chad72]

Kaep would actually fit in Kubiak's system better than in Chud's system. Plus, Tolzien would have a clear head start in Chud's system. I was actually impressed with the timing he displayed with his receivers, if only they did not drop the balls thrown to them vs the Steelers. Tolzien however thought he was Luck in the goal line situations with his QB scrambles , maybe that is where you could use a guy like Kaep situationally to keep the QB run possibility an honest one.

 

Given Chud's inability to maximize what our offensive players can do consistently, I somehow doubt he would use Kaep effectively. Kaep's ability to read progressions has gone down recently and I am not sure that is a winning recipe in our offensive system for sustained success as a back up QB. 

 

Everything else is irrelevant for Kaep being a backup in our system, IMO.

[dudley dawson]

Kravitz is on board

 

Tolzien and Morris still suck, btw.  We need Kaep now that it looks likely Luck will miss some games.

[Dark Superman]

Stephen Morris > Colin Kap.

[Dark Superman]

No thanks..

[Dark Superman]

If Luck can't go, then I rather roll with Morris over Tolzien.

[UKColt13]

I'm good.

 

Not because of any protest. But because he sucks.

 

Tolzein knows the system well and has developed chemistry with the receivers. Kaep is a mobile guy and doesn't fit the pocket QB system we play.

 

If we're making a change at backup QB I'd be interested to look at Josh Freeman if he still wants to play. I liked him when we signed him as a late season replacement a year or 2 back. Experienced pocket passer, already has a relationship with the team.

[ColtsBlueFL]

17 hours ago, dudley dawson said:

Kravitz is on board

 

Tolzien and Morris still suck, btw.  We need Kaep now that it looks likely Luck will miss some games.

 

13 hours ago, Colt-King21 said:

If Luck can't go, then I rather roll with Morris over Tolzien.

 

Color me perturbed and very unexcited about our backup QB situation, especially ever since M. Hassellbeck retired.  #1 backup is a journeyman 30 y/o QB that has been on the Chargers, 49'ers, Packers, and now the Colts.  He has never won a single game in his career (but he did get one tie, I believe). He's just a warm body to cover for Luck when he is out (and he has unfortunately been out way too often these last couple years.  He's no Eli Manning in consecutive starts, for sure).

 

The next guy, #2 backup, is a UDFA that was signed by the Jags in 2014, and sent to their Practice Squad as soon as they could (waiver process).  Later he was released and Philly took him, and they sent him to the PS via the same process the Jags did. Luck gets hurt late in 2015 and we pluck him off the Eagles PS to our roster.  From there he has bounced back and forth between the Colts active roster and the practice squad depending upon the health of Luck. He still has no NFL games (that count) under his belt at all.

 

And I sit looking at this thinking of two guys I wanted in the past and would spend a middle round draft pick for.  Yet nobody else would go that route with me, thinking we need every pick for 'holes' in the roster (and we did).  Evidently, nobody else thinks having a very decent QB that fills a {enormous!} hole in the roster when Luck is out of the lineup, was important to consider. Until it became important to consider {too late}.

 

So I see my main guy, Mike Glennon is now the starting QB in Chicago, and 2nd overall draft pick, QB Mitchell Trubisky is his backup for 2017. I was willing to get him in the 2nd, or trade up in the 3rd to get him.  We did not, and we now have no_player at all from that 2013 draft on the Colts roster (Bjoern Werner, Hugh Thornton, Khaled Holmes, Montori Hughes, Kerwynn Williams, and Justice Cunningham).  Glennon now has a chance to start at QB and make a splash into his next team/contract.

 

The Other QB I liked for the Colts backup QB duty was Sean Mannion.  It is reported he is looking good in camp and pushing #1 overall draft pick Jared Goff hard the in QB competition.  It is expected the Rams will let Goff start and later in the season possibly 'lose' the job.  Mannion likely can't win the position. But Rams new HC McVay isn't beholden to Goff.  He had watched as Kirk Cousins outperformed RG III in camp, and when Redskins new HC Jay Gruden noted that, Cousins was promoted to the QB spot.  Kirk has 'bet on himself twice, and won huge.  I see potential for Sean Mannion to do the same in L.A. if Goff doesn't improve in some areas (especially decision making, but he does have skills that are coming along...). I was in favor of taking him with our first 3rd round pick in 2015 instead of our eventual pick D'Joun Smith, knowing MH was at the end of his playing career. (i was even in favor of getting Glennon and not using MH and use the 4 mil elsewhere).

 

So I watched these guys progress to where they are now, while I prepare myself for winless journeyman Tolzein to take the field in L.A. if Luck's rehab is not quite finished and he is not quite ready by September 10th. aAnd this isn't hindsight is 20-20. I know there are a few fellow members who know I liked these two and might remember I was willing to use a middle round draft pick to get (either of) them.

 

/Rant over --  except to say that QB is the most important position on the club. You also have to prepare your team to win a game(s) without your starter st times, and that requires a capable backup. I do not fell either of these guys fit that description, and we had chances to get guys who would have.

 

 

 

[bababooey]

If Luck misses a game there is not a person I want more behind center than RG3 or Kap. Let the Fins go after Jay Cutler and other guys have their McCowns and what not. There have been worse guys playing in the NFL and it's about time we stop going 0 and flippin 2.

[crazycolt1]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 4:44 PM, dudley dawson said:

Kravitz is on board

 

Tolzien and Morris still suck, btw.  We need Kaep now that it looks likely Luck will miss some games.

Having Kravitz on board does not bide well on anything. lol

I highly doubt that Irsay will touch Kaep in any capacity.

[The Fish]

No offense to anyone and as a caveat, without getting into specifics, I really don't *like* what Kape is about. I don't respect his argument generally, namely because he does such a poor job of representing his clique'- not that I'd agree if he was making more substantive arguments.

With all of that said, Tolzein suck more than Kap, by a lot.

If the Colts need to play a back up, I'd prefer it be a guy who can win the game..

[bababooey]

2 hours ago, The Fish said:

No offense to anyone and as a caveat, without getting into specifics, I really don't *like* what Kape is about. I don't respect his argument generally, namely because he does such a poor job of representing his clique'- not that I'd agree if he was making more substantive arguments.

With all of that said, Tolzein suck more than Kap, by a lot.

If the Colts need to play a back up, I'd prefer it be a guy who can win the game..

Amazing picture. I don't agree with Kap but I'd be a hypocrite if I said he shouldn't be allowed to do it. He has a right to kneel, but I don't like what he said about cops. He didn't vote either which was dumb, but he also is spending money and time helping out as well. Like I said previously, he's not the worst person to have on your roster, and I'd like to not go 0-2 again if Luck misses time.

[DaColts85]

For a backup QB you DO NOT bring in a guy who needs his own offense to be successful.  I do not care of any protest, but why would we sign a backup QB in Kaep or RG3 and then need to change our offense to their style.  Kaep was terrible last year when forced to change to a pocket scheme.  He had his version of Nevada while Jim was there and it worked for him until he got hurt and even showed signs of regressing in that.  RG3 is someone who had minor success with an option offense.  We do not run that nor anything close to the air raid that is Baylor.  We do have Tolzein who knows the system and is a game manager that can sit in the pocket.  If he has to play 1 or 2 games I would hope our o-line steps up and gives him time but also allows us to run the hell out of the ball.  We would also game plan for Tolzein so shorter routes and an extra TE to block would be typical.

[The Fish]

9 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

For a backup QB you DO NOT bring in a guy who needs his own offense to be successful.  

In a perfect world, sure. I've seen Josh Johnson (was it?) and Charile Whitehurst split reps to win a game. Things can be done on the fly and again Tolzien isn't winning any games if he has to go (I'm starting to think he's going to play regular season games.. In fact I'd put money on it if there's no positive developments very soon). Kaep *might*..

[dudley dawson]

On 8/4/2017 at 6:11 PM, Colt-King21 said:

Stephen Morris > Colin Kap.

Because he's played so many games?  How many? Oh yeah, ZERO.  I'm guessing you're just a troll, but saying he's better than Kaep is beyond stupid.

[dudley dawson]

5 hours ago, The Fish said:

With all of that said, Tolzein suck more than Kap, by a lot.

If the Colts need to play a back up, I'd prefer it be a guy who can win the game..

Exactly, we have a shot at winning some games with Kaep.  We have NO CHANCE with Tolzien starting.

[dudley dawson]

35 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

For a backup QB you DO NOT bring in a guy who needs his own offense to be successful.  I do not care of any protest, but why would we sign a backup QB in Kaep or RG3 and then need to change our offense to their style.  Kaep was terrible last year when forced to change to a pocket scheme.  He had his version of Nevada while Jim was there and it worked for him until he got hurt and even showed signs of regressing in that.  RG3 is someone who had minor success with an option offense.  We do not run that nor anything close to the air raid that is Baylor.  We do have Tolzein who knows the system and is a game manager that can sit in the pocket.  If he has to play 1 or 2 games I would hope our o-line steps up and gives him time but also allows us to run the hell out of the ball.  We would also game plan for Tolzein so shorter routes and an extra TE to block would be typical.

Kaep in the pocket > Tolzien in the pocket

 

Nothing about our backup situation is ideal, but we should play the best player available, which is clearly Kaep.

[Superman]

Specific to the Colts, I don't understand the panic. Two years ago, everyone wrote off Hasselbeck, who was legitimately bad in the preseason, and Hasselbeck with 6-3 with arguably a worse roster than we have right now (it's really not arguable, tbh). 

 

We haven't even played in preseason yet. Let's see what Tolzien actually looks like before determining that he's awful and we can't win a couple games with him, assuming Luck isn't ready to go (which is also a premature determination at this point, five weeks before the season starts). 

 

And then there's Morris, who was a threat for a roster spot last year as a rookie. Who's to say that he can't step up, if necessary? 

 

Unrelated, on Kap, I have a problem with bringing in a specialty guy like that for a short term stint. You have to change your offense, from top to bottom, to accommodate him. If your QB gets hurt and is out for the year, then maybe you look at that kind of change. Worst case, Luck misses a month, IMO. So you run Kap's specialty stuff for a month, then go back to the traditional stuff for Luck? That's problematic. 

 

I disagree with anyone who says Kap isn't good, he sucks, he doesn't care about his team, etc. All that is nonsense, IMO, either from people who don't pay attention to how he's played and his circumstances, or people who dislike him for other reasons. I think Kap is good enough to be a starter in the NFL, and I can name a handful of likely starters that he is better than. The Broncos would be better with Kap, though they probably want to pave the way for Paxton Lynch. He's better than Bortles, Hoyer (his replacement in SF, coincidentally), whoever the Jets roll out, whoever the Browns roll out, and he's probably better than whoever the Texans roll out. But it's a different story when you're thinking about making him your primary backup. 

 

It's pretty obvious at this point that his protest and other political demonstrations and statements are the primary reason he's not on a team. That's why he's not competing for a spot with the Seahawks, in particular. 

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, dudley dawson said:

Exactly, we have a shot at winning some games with Kaep.  We have NO CHANCE with Tolzien starting.

 

Based on what? 

[dudley dawson]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Based on what? 

Watching him play.  He's terrible.  On the same level as Curtis Painter.

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, dudley dawson said:

Watching him play.  He's terrible.  On the same level as Curtis Painter.

 

Yeah, he's not though.

[DaColts85]

1 hour ago, The Fish said:

In a perfect world, sure. I've seen Josh Johnson (was it?) and Charile Whitehurst split reps to win a game. Things can be done on the fly and again Tolzien isn't winning any games if he has to go (I'm starting to think he's going to play regular season games.. In fact I'd put money on it if there's no positive developments very soon). Kaep *might*..

Freeman and Whitehurst were guys that still fit the mold of our offense.  And they obviously operated under a very small playbook.

[DaColts85]

42 minutes ago, dudley dawson said:

Kaep in the pocket > Tolzien in the pocket

 

Nothing about our backup situation is ideal, but we should play the best player available, which is clearly Kaep.

There is nothing clearly about that at all.  Kaep knows nothing of our system and last year while in the pocket he was not that great at all.  Tolzein came in against a team we were supposed to get blown (Steelers) out to and performed well.  The WR's had a terrible game and our D did not provide much either.  I would say the coaches seem to agree that Tolzein will be fine. 

[The Fish]

39 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Freeman and Whitehurst were guys that still fit the mold of our offense.  And they obviously operated under a very small playbook.

How did they fit the mold of the offense? By having two legs and two arms, each? Breathing? That was a train crash ending to a season.. Jeez. And this past season's end where Luck and his destroyed shoulder were going bonkers after beating a bad B aguars team at the last second. Have I mentioned that I wouldn't mind firing Grigson again? I might let that all go one day- might..

 

I'm not saying that the argument that the installed offense needs to not be screwed with too much is wrong, but I'm also not buying into the "it's impossible to do" argument either.

I just hope the football people are making football first calls on this. If the backups look bad and Luck is still not throwing, it would seem like it would be prudent to look into other options.

[DaColts85]

16 hours ago, The Fish said:

How did they fit the mold of the offense? By having two legs and two arms, each? Breathing? That was a train crash ending to a season.. Jeez. And this past season's end where Luck and his destroyed shoulder were going bonkers after beating a bad B aguars team at the last second. Have I mentioned that I wouldn't mind firing Grigson again? I might let that all go one day- might..

 

I'm not saying that the argument that the installed offense needs to not be screwed with too much is wrong, but I'm also not buying into the "it's impossible to do" argument either.

I just hope the football people are making football first calls on this. If the backups look bad and Luck is still not throwing, it would seem like it would be prudent to look into other options.

I can see you are not a fan of Grigson...lol! Last year it was stupid to play Luck the last game but that was IMO a job saving approach to end the year.  It helped one but not the other.  I have a feeling that CB knows what he is doing and if he is not scrambling to sign someone then I am fine with it.  If we play a game or two with our current QB's, then again I am fine with that.  The approach is not sign Kaep for say a Cutler type contract and leave yourself broke and needing to again change the playbook to facilitate a guy for two games. No Thanks!  If Luck was out f or the whole year like Tannehill then by all means g o for a better option for the year.

[The Fish]

16 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I can see you are not a fan of Grigson...lol! Last year it was stupid to play Luck the last game but that was IMO a job saving approach to end the year.  It helped one but not the other.  I have a feeling that CB knows what he is doing and if he is not scrambling to sign someone then I am fine with it.  If we play a game or two with our current QB's, then again I am fine with that.  The approach is not sign Kaep for say a Cutler type contract and leave yourself broke and needing to again change the playbook to facilitate a guy for two games. No Thanks!  If Luck was out f or the whole year like Tannehill then by all means g o for a better option for the year.

Fair enough. If the $$ is way wrong, then it's probably not the best move- but I'd ask this. Hypothetically, if Luck can't go early, comes back plays well, the team is winning but they lost the early season games and miss the playoffs by a game, would you look back at not upgrading the backup QB situation differently? I know lot's of hindsight here, but I'm guessing you get the jist of what I'm asking.

There's really only one guy who's available that could bridge this potential gap (if needed) and if it's the difference between the playoffs or not, ask me if I cared about week 1/2 in January- if 12 is under center in a playoff game.

[DaColts85]

57 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Fair enough. If the $$ is way wrong, then it's probably not the best move- but I'd ask this. Hypothetically, if Luck can't go early, comes back plays well, the team is winning but they lost the early season games and miss the playoffs by a game, would you look back at not upgrading the backup QB situation differently? I know lot's of hindsight here, but I'm guessing you get the jist of what I'm asking.

There's really only one guy who's available that could bridge this potential gap (if needed) and if it's the difference between the playoffs or not, ask me if I cared about week 1/2 in January- if 12 is under center in a playoff game.

Based on that I would not look back and change anything.  For your example again I would say exactly what Ballard has said, and that is the other 52 players better step up and earn that spot and paycheck.  We cannot continue to be a team that sits on Luck's shoulders.  For the record if Luck misses any time IMO it will only be 2 games at most.  Again just my opinion though.

[dudley dawson]

2 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

I can see you are not a fan of Grigson...lol! Last year it was stupid to play Luck the last game but that was IMO a job saving approach to end the year.  It helped one but not the other.  I have a feeling that CB knows what he is doing and if he is not scrambling to sign someone then I am fine with it.  If we play a game or two with our current QB's, then again I am fine with that.  The approach is not sign Kaep for say a Cutler type contract and leave yourself broke and needing to again change the playbook to facilitate a guy for two games. No Thanks!  If Luck was out f or the whole year like Tannehill then by all means g o for a better option for the year.

Kaep is willing to play for a bargain basement price.  He just wants a team to give him a chance to compete for the backup job.

[WERC82]

He's just not any good. Tolzien is a better option and I'd look for a trade with another team b4 I even considered bring him in. He's just not any good.

[DaColts85]

2 hours ago, dudley dawson said:

Kaep is willing to play for a bargain basement price.  He just wants a team to give him a chance to compete for the backup job.

Says who???  I have yet to hear Kaep say anything about playing for a bargain basement price.  I have heard he has come down from his 1st string QB money he wanted but nothing about a vet minimum he would get as a short term back-up.  Show me your resource....

[dudley dawson]

2 hours ago, WERC82 said:

He's just not any good. Tolzien is a better option and I'd look for a trade with another team b4 I even considered bring him in. He's just not any good.

Kaep isn't any good, but Tolzien is? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?