Taco Charlton (Edge Scout #8) <This guy is a bum

[Freeupfreeney]

 

 

Now I know he's playing Michigan, I didn't even finish watching this one, which is 1 or 3 games I watched of him. Now I don't know if they tell the guy to play zone, but he has a very slow burst. But I'm watching him, and I'm like. Why are you 6'6 for nothing. He get no pressure, in the 3 tapes I watched. He looses track of the runner. Its hard for him to disengage with his blocker. His Spin technique is terrible, because he doesn't move laterally, he just does a standing 360 and ends up where he started horizontally, but a half yard closer vertically. And with that height and size, you would think he would be more of an obstacle, maybe swatting a few passes, but I usually just see him in small shoving matches (again, is he playing some type of run zone defense)

 

He looks like he has speed, but he sure isn't using it.

 

I really don't have anything good to say about him except that his is big, and he is there. And I'm being serious.

 

His First Sack was off of a pulling center.

 

And you can hear at 10:30, the announcer says that the RT he is over is a weak link and had been struggling, and Taco still has problems manhandling him.

 

At 8:16 looks how much space and isolation he need to perform a successful bull rush.

 

He is going to need too much coaching to play at an NFL level.

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/taco-charlton-vs-rutgers-2016/

 

If you look at the Rutgers game, you can see. Good production vs Small time Competition is why he is considered good.

 

I think he can be molded into a good players, but I don't think his motor and drive and field awareness fit out team. I think he is a bum, but he may play well on a team like the Pats or the Ravens.

[UKColt13]

He was always going to be a potential pick. If he can make the most of his speed and learn to use it along with some rush moves he could be very good.

 

Reminds me a lot of Ziggy Ansah coming out. Will need time but definitely has a high ceiling thanks to his athletic prowess.

[krunk]

Oh yeah! He'll fit the Ravens or Pats defense but no way not ours.  LOL.  Come on dude.

[Freeupfreeney]

16 minutes ago, krunk said:

Oh yeah! He'll fit the Ravens or Pats defense but no way not ours.  LOL.  Come on dude.

You want to elaborate on your criticism.

 

Let me further explain. The pats have the personnel and coaching experience to make guys like these good. I've seen a lot of bums the Pats have made good.

 

The reasons, I don't really know.

 

The coaching

The History

The attidude

The luxury of being on a winning team

 

But, if you stick a guy like that on our team, that already has zero pass rush, and put it on him out there to be a bearer of change...it's not going to work out well.

 

But you put him on the pats behind their line and their coach him up in their tradition, he can cause some damage. I don't see why what I said sounded strange to you.  

 

I really don't like this guy. Because I'm sick an tired for the past decade of picking guys like this that give up on plays, jog around the field, and have low energy and passion.

 

Scouting for energy and passion and tenacity should be the easiest things to spot. Go look at Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis in college and Bob Sanders and Julius Peppers, and then ask yourself, how did they do so good in their first year in the NFL. It's because the played hard their entire career in college.

 

Does this guy look like he playing hard every play?

[krunk]

Just now, Freeupfreeney said:

You want to elaborate on your criticism.

 

Let me further explain. The pats have the personnel and coaching experience to make guys like these good. I've seen a lot of bums the Pats have made good.

 

The reasons, I don't really know.

 

The coaching

The History

The attidude

The luxury of being on a winning team

 

But, if you stick a guy like that on our team, that already has zero pass rush, and put it on him out there to be a bearer of change...it's not going to work out well.

 

But you put him on the pats behind their line and their coach him up in their tradition, he can cause some damage. I don't see why what I said sounded strange to you.  

It sounds strange to just more than me.  I'm glad that most of the real scouts out there aren't in agreement with you.  Otherwise they wouldn't be placing him as high as they do on the boards more often than not.   Now for some reason he needs special attention from a specific coaching staff to really bring his talents out basically because we don't have real coaches..  Did I understand that right?

[Andrew Luck fan club]

 

[funktacious2]

I'm sorry, if you don't see his talent, then you just don't see it. I'll just agree to disagree with you. I think Taco can have an immediate NFL impact, and with good development could be a star.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I think Takk is better but Taco is far from a bum. I like Takk and Barnett a tad better but taco isn't a chump.

[Freeupfreeney]

Just look back at history at similar players. Even Mario Williams that went no1 overall and ran a 4.6 at 6'6. How long did it take him to make an impact? Barkevious Mingro (I thought he would be good, that's how I learned about players like him.) Low energy, and low desire to be involved in plays = disaster in the league. 

 

But I'm watching a guy 6'6 and getting pankaced and squared out and match on every pass rush and causing no pressure on passing down in college. What you think he gonna do in the pro league?

 

He makes some positive plays yes, but few are made through sheer individual effort. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Freeupfreeney said:

Just look back at history at similar players. Even Mario Williams that went no1 overall and ran a 4.6 at 6'6. How long did it take him to make an impact? Barkevious Mingro (I thought he would be good, that's how I learned about players like him.) Low energy, and low desire to be involved in plays = disaster in the league. 

 

But I'm watching a guy 6'6 and getting pankaced and squared out and match on every pass rush and causing no pressure on passing down in college. What you think he gonna do in the pro league?

 

He makes some positive plays yes, but few are made through sheer individual effort. 

I think by calling him a bum is where you are getting your criticism from. I don't think he is better than players like Takk or Barnett but I don't think he is a bum either. Bum was kind of a harsh word to use.

[Freeupfreeney]

Oh and btw, people saying the "real" scouts say this and that. Its almost guaranteed all there boards are going to look completely different 1 month from now. 

 

Some guys fall from top 10 to completely of the draft board and not even get drafted. 

 

Ryan leaf was really high on most 'EXPERTS" boards all the way till draft day. So if you can't pick a spot on the videos linked to prove me wrong, that's a weak argument. 

[Freeupfreeney]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think by calling him a bum is where you are getting your criticism from. I don't think he is better than players like Takk or Barnett but I don't think he is a bum either. Bum was kind of a harsh word to use.

Naw, dude is a lazy bum. He's not a bum cuz he not fast bit because he is lazy and really he is very bad in run defense considering his size. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 minutes ago, Freeupfreeney said:

Naw, dude is a lazy bum. He's not a bum cuz he not fast bit because he is lazy and really he is very bad in run defense considering his size. 

A 1st round OL said he was the best pass rusher he played against. I posted the tweet up above. 

[tvturner]

These write-ups are ridiculous imo.

[KB]

[krunk]

10 minutes ago, Freeupfreeney said:

Naw, dude is a lazy bum. He's not a bum cuz he not fast bit because he is lazy and really he is very bad in run defense considering his size. 

A lot of people called Julius Peppers lazy when he came out of College.  Doesn't mean you have to stay that way and it sure as hell didn't mean he didn't have talent.     There's a number of these prospects that are coming out that have areas they need to polish up.   The Bum terminology is really extreme.

[krunk]

18 minutes ago, Freeupfreeney said:

Oh and btw, people saying the "real" scouts say this and that. Its almost guaranteed all there boards are going to look completely different 1 month from now. 

 

Some guys fall from top 10 to completely of the draft board and not even get drafted. 

 

Ryan leaf was really high on most 'EXPERTS" boards all the way till draft day. So if you can't pick a spot on the videos linked to prove me wrong, that's a weak argument. 

So where should we value your opinion?  I mean you walked write up in here telling us how right you are with your valuations?  Did I miss something?

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, Boomstick1 said:

These write-ups are ridiculous imo.

 

They're priceless. Invaluable. 

[Superman]

25 minutes ago, Freeupfreeney said:

Even Mario Williams that went no1 overall and ran a 4.6 at 6'6. How long did it take him to make an impact?

 

How about right away...?

 

Mario Williams had 4.5 sacks in Year 1, 14 sacks in Year 2.

 

Did I misunderstand you?

[BCoop]

20 minutes ago, Freeupfreeney said:

Oh and btw, people saying the "real" scouts say this and that. Its almost guaranteed all there boards are going to look completely different 1 month from now. 

 

Some guys fall from top 10 to completely of the draft board and not even get drafted. 

 

Ryan leaf was really high on most 'EXPERTS" boards all the way till draft day. So if you can't pick a spot on the videos linked to prove me wrong, that's a weak argument. 

 

This really couldn't be more wrong. Scouts have been on these guys full-time for the past 12 months+. Their boards should be nearly locked in with minor adjustments after the combine. The only major movement at this point will come from medical evaluations or some unforeseen event (i.e. Laremy Tunsil).

[Freeupfreeney]

5 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

A 1st round OL said he was the best pass rusher he played against. I posted the tweet up above. 

And Lol. I just Watched that game. I don't know why he said that, he got like one pressure on his side. 

 

I didn't watch that game because it no sound so I picked three others, that was his best game. He got a clean sack (on the other tackle) he spins looked a little better, but he still was a bum Lol. 

 

Remember this is the big ten not the sec, which u have to admit is a whole mother level, not do discredit Wisconsin. 

 

But I saw him get blown up 2x times by the rb, and squared out 2x by the running backnand twice again by the TE. 

 

So you gotta ask yoself. What is more important, the olines opinion, or the facts the film shows?

 

I can see how he can be good onnteams like the pats like I was saying. If he plays  like that he can work out for a team that already had a good front seven. And that's only because of his speed n size.    But for most the league, he'd be a bum. I stick to my critique. 

[MTC]

Woah, Taco Charlton is not a bum. He'll be drafted in the 10-15 range.

[coltsfanmilyman]

clearly he's not a bum... he's a chump. 

[Freeupfreeney]

26 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

How about right away...?

 

Mario Williams had 4.5 sacks in Year 1, 14 sacks in Year 2.

 

Did I misunderstand you?

And wasn't he next to a few pro bowlers? 

 

Do we have pro bowlers on our teams d? 

 

He not going to be good on a vanilla defense like ours. 

 

He needs a team talent on d to shine.  unless he changes his work ethic in the field. He is definitely a run liability in any case on any team with any d, but can cause some pressure on a fast paced, blitz happy d. 

 

Out of 4 games, he looked decent in 1. My opinion is based of his performance which if you take the time to look, his negatives overweight his positives. 

 

And his play style wouldnt do much to help our non existent pass rush. 

 

He doesn't play as strong as hisnsize indicates, but he can I seen it. But he doesn't. That makes him a bum.

 

When somebody has the ability to be a playmaker and doesn't use that physical gift on at least 80% of snaps, like he tried to do vs Wisconsin, that's a bum in my eyes. He gonna take a lot of work, something I'm not yet confident that out defensive staff is capable off, to get him where he needs to be. 

 

Williams had a good squad and a good defensive coach.

 

U put a guy like taco on the colts, he gonna on another team in three years. 

 

I didnt say he was garbage, I said he was a bum.

 

[Shive]

52 minutes ago, Freeupfreeney said:

Oh and btw, people saying the "real" scouts say this and that. Its almost guaranteed all there boards are going to look completely different 1 month from now. 

 

Some guys fall from top 10 to completely of the draft board and not even get drafted. 

 

Ryan leaf was really high on most 'EXPERTS" boards all the way till draft day. So if you can't pick a spot on the videos linked to prove me wrong, that's a weak argument. 

You do know that Ryan Leaf went #2 overall right? I'm also curious how many "Top 10" guys go undrafted (aside from Collins and off field situations, but that's a whole other situation), because I'm pretty positive it doesn't happen.

 

I don't think Taco is some crazy edge rusher that is going to take the NFL by storm his rookie year, but I think he can be solid as a rookie and has a ton of upside.

[Freeupfreeney]

43 minutes ago, krunk said:

So where should we value your opinion?  I mean you walked write up in here telling us how right you are with your valuations?  Did I miss something?

Yes, you guys only argument is "well the internets says a durrr" what do you think. Indicate a time in the video to backup what you are saying. 

 

I dont look at no scouts analysi but Mayok and Kiper and they are wrong a lot. But they are right much more than others. 

 

This is not an exact svience, and saying I'm wrong because draftguru.com says he the bestest everarvs is stupid. What do YOU think based on your review of these videos which shows raw game play?

 

Ever since that draftbreakdown website started, my analysis have been getting much better. I've been wrong in the past, but I've been correct a lot more after 3 years have past and the players I thought would be good actually panned out. 

 

Y'all should try spending some time, but it is very tedious and takes a lot of time. 

[CheezyColt]

7 minutes ago, Freeupfreeney said:

Yes, you guys only argument is "well the internets says a durrr" what do you think. Indicate a time in the video to backup what you are saying. 

 

I dont look at no scouts analysi but Mayok and Kiper and they are wrong a lot. But they are right much more than others. 

 

This is not an exact svience, and saying I'm wrong because draftguru.com says he the bestest everarvs is stupid. What do YOU think based on your review of these videos which shows raw game play?

Dude, breathe.

[Shive]

13 minutes ago, Freeupfreeney said:

Y'all should try spending some time, but it is very tedious and takes a lot of time. 

This statement sounds like you think you're the one that watches film on this forum. Based on your post count, I'm going to assume that you're at least fairly new, because there are quite a few folks on this forum that spend a TON of time watching film and writing in-depth scouting reports (Superman has posted a few in the past week alone).

[Superman]

23 minutes ago, Freeupfreeney said:

And wasn't he next to a few pro bowlers? 

 

Do we have pro bowlers on our teams d? 

 

Please name these "few pro bowlers" that the Texans had early in Williams career.

 

Quote

Williams had a good squad and a good defensive coach.

 

No he didn't. The Texans struggled to reach mediocrity in those days (6-10, 8-8, 8-8 in his first three years, while he put up 30.5 sacks). They had Gary Kubiak, an offensive minded head coach, and Richard Smith as the defensive coordinator, who was fired after 2008.

 

Whatever your point is -- and I'm really not sure -- Mario Williams isn't helping you make it.

 

I really haven't even watched Taco Charlton, you might be right about him, but it's awesome seeing you offer these antagonistic opinions of players with no regard for differing viewpoints.

[2006Coltsbestever]

25 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Please name these "few pro bowlers" that the Texans had early in Williams career.

 

 

No he didn't. The Texans struggled to reach mediocrity in those days (6-10, 8-8, 8-8 in his first three years, while he put up 30.5 sacks). They had Gary Kubiak, an offensive minded head coach, and Richard Smith as the defensive coordinator, who was fired after 2008.

 

Whatever your point is -- and I'm really not sure -- Mario Williams isn't helping you make it.

 

I really haven't even watched Taco Charlton, you might be right about him, but it's awesome seeing you offer these antagonistic opinions of players with no regard for differing viewpoints.

You have to admit this is great stuff  

[Freeupfreeney]

20 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Please name these "few pro bowlers" that the Texans had early in Williams career.

 

 

No he didn't. The Texans struggled to reach mediocrity in those days (6-10, 8-8, 8-8 in his first three years, while he put up 30.5 sacks). They had Gary Kubiak, an offensive minded head coach, and Richard Smith as the defensive coordinator, who was fired after 2008.

 

Whatever your point is -- and I'm really not sure -- Mario Williams isn't helping you make it.

 

I really haven't even watched Taco Charlton, you might be right about him, but it's awesome seeing you offer these antagonistic opinions of players with no regard for differing viewpoints.

I mean he had demeco Ryan's and Jason babin. And Duanta Robinson. 

 

Who do we have even close besides vantea Davis as a top tier defender right now. 

 

We could look at Jadeaveon Clowney too. Same team even more talent around him than williams had. 

 

 

I think williams is a great comparison cuz he went 1 overall. And he had young talent around him, it just didn't worknout to team success. 

 

Were talking about a guy who is middle of the first on OUR defense which success hangs heavily on this off season. 

 

And the problem is I'm not getting antagonized by differeng viewpoints. People are just repeating what they read in articles and not what's on tape, on the videos. 

 

If you spent an hour and a half watching em, you'd probably see the same thing i do. 

 

Some of these sports websites are run by dudes sitting in there big house from their ad money, in their underwear on the couch, slightly changing the words on the opinions of people like Kiper who watch tape all day long. 

 

If you look at the dude, its clear he doesn't play hard, and he is rarely involved in disrupting run plays, and he is largely on the lazy side. 

 

Facts is facts. 

 

 

[Freeupfreeney]

Lol in get excited bout this stuff. In watch some of these guys since they were in high school. 

47 minutes ago, CheezyColt said:

Dude, breathe.

 

[Shive]

Some brights spots from Taco in this game:

0:57 - Spin move worked just fine and he was close to getting a sack.

1:42 - Came untouched on the blitz for a near sack (quicker off the snap standing up).

2:23 - Quick off the snap and forced Cook to bounce outside for a loss.

2:44 - Disengages the RT, gets back up field and still makes the tackle for a short gain.

4:03 - Displays insane acceleration & closing speed for a guy his size (no sack, but pressure forcing an incomplete pass).

5:31 - Holds the edge, disengages the RT & makes the tackle.

5:39 - Blows right by the LT for the sack.

6:07 - Quick off the snap & runs right by the LT for near sack (pressure caused incomplete pass).

6:28 - Comes down the line and makes the TFL.

6:49 - Used that terrible spin move again to get past his guy (didn't put him in the best position, but pushed the QB out of the pocket and forced a quick, deep pass).

7:35 - Blew his guy up and into the backfield, drawing a holding call.

9:15 - Disengaged the pulling guard for a TFL.

 

At times he was slow off the snap, but was mostly solid, with a few lightning fast jumps. I don't see lazy at all, especially in the run game. I believe the "zone run defense" you're talking about is him setting the edge. In this game he was making sure Cook couldn't bounce it outside, which is where he's dangerous. He could stand to learn some more pass rush moves, but does quite well ripping and bending the corner. That spin move could use some polish, but its far from "doesn't go anywhere". It was widely talked about that be had a slow start to the season, but came on stronger and stronger as the season progressed. I'm not sure what tape you watched, but it sure wasn't this game, because he was kind of a force..

 

It also seems that in most of your scouting posts that you went in with a negative bias, looking for negative things and reasons why they suck. Not a good way to objectively scout.

[Freeupfreeney]

Im looking for positive trust me. I want as many good pass rushers as possible. 

 

I watched the Ohio state, Rutgers Wisconsin and Michigan state game. 

 

I greatly appreaciate ur reply BTW. That's how u scout. But i figure he looked bad in 3 or the 4 games I watched and only decent in the Wisconsin game. 

 

Gotta watch this one next. But 3 bad games is a no no for me when your talking first round. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Freeupfreeney said:

Lol in get excited bout this stuff. In watch some of these guys since they were in high school. 

 

We love your efforts no biggy. Everyone has an opinion and you think he is a bum, none of the rest of us do. Is he the next Reggie White, heck no, but a bum he isn't, JMO. Mario Williams was never Great but he wasn't a bum and had some solid years with plenty of Sacks.

[Freeupfreeney]

19 minutes ago, Shive said:

Some brights spots from Taco in this game:

0:57 - Spin move worked just fine and he was close to getting a sack.

1:42 - Came untouched on the blitz for a near sack (quicker off the snap standing up).

2:23 - Quick off the snap and forced Cook to bounce outside for a loss.

2:44 - Disengages the RT, gets back up field and still makes the tackle for a short gain.

4:03 - Displays insane acceleration & closing speed for a guy his size (no sack, but pressure forcing an incomplete pass).

5:31 - Holds the edge, disengages the RT & makes the tackle.

5:39 - Blows right by the LT for the sack.

6:07 - Quick off the snap & runs right by the LT for near sack (pressure caused incomplete pass).

6:28 - Comes down the line and makes the TFL.

6:49 - Used that terrible spin move again to get past his guy (didn't put him in the best position, but pushed the QB out of the pocket and forced a quick, deep pass).

7:35 - Blew his guy up and into the backfield, drawing a holding call.

9:15 - Disengaged the pulling guard for a TFL.

 

At times he was slow off the snap, but was mostly solid, with a few lightning fast jumps. I don't see lazy at all, especially in the run game. I believe the "zone run defense" you're talking about is him setting the edge. In this game he was making sure Cook couldn't bounce it outside, which is where he's dangerous. He could stand to learn some more pass rush moves, but does quite well ripping and bending the corner. That spin move could use some polish, but its far from "doesn't go anywhere". It was widely talked about that be had a slow start to the season, but came on stronger and stronger as the season progressed. I'm not sure what tape you watched, but it sure wasn't this game, because he was kind of a force..

 

It also seems that in most of your scouting posts that you went in with a negative bias, looking for negative things and reasons why they suck. Not a good way to objectively scout.

I saw this game I forgot. It was the first one I saw. He played with more energy than vs Rutgers (which turned into a blowout) and OSU....but look how easily he is handled. When the running back is moving towards him he is inept, and is still busy engaging his guy. 

 

That's why I sag he bummy, he isn't disruptive. He lookin for the easy sack instead if using his size to crash. 

 

He's not setting the edge because he rarely realized a sweep or slant is even comming his way, which is no 1 problem. 

 

Now go watch any tim williams game besides WVU and youll understand what I mean. 

 

He can be successful as a pass rusher, but not on a defense like ours, and not without a good coach. 

 

I'll put it like this then ill go to sleep. 

 

Taco is too damn big to be tackling rb from behind all the time. 

 

And the only reason I think he has the success he does, is because of his teamates blitz packages causing the online headaches. And he's looking for mistakes instead of imposing them. 

 

[LockeDown]

I love these threads.  Either way, I agree with him that Tak will be good.  We won't draft Taco, imo.  

[Indi Warrior]

Strongly disagree with the OP on this one.

 

Out of all players I've *scouted* in this year's draft, by far the one I've watched the most is Taco Charlton. Why? Not because I think he's the best, or that he's even my favorite, but I couldn't get a solid read on him from the first few tapes, so I had to do more to be absolutely sure of my opinion on him.

 

The dude runs hot an cold, sure. He needs extra motivation at the next level to give it has all on every single play. But he's also an edge rusher, and 9/10 times, you don't draft a pass rusher high because of his incredible body of work in college, but you know that with some coaching, this guy could be an absolute freak.

 

He's got a solid base to build off of, supporting great size, and he's got decent (could be better) footwork and agility. When he's on, he just takes over a game as a wrecking ball coming off the edge. His pass rushing moves are primarily just him combining his size and speed to get past blockers, but he's got enough of the fundamentals down to build off of on the next level.

 

Taco's a guy who might not shine right away at the next level, but his ceiling is sky high. With the proper coaching, this guy could become an elite pass rusher in the pros.

[Tmoney]

Your a bum at scouting talent

[tvturner]

3 hours ago, Freeupfreeney said:

In watch some of these guys since they were in high school. 

 

Seriously doubt that