Will Colts Extend Any Players

[dw49]

With the 2017 FA list shrinking by the day , will there maybe be more value in extending a few players  ? Geathers and Mewhort would come to mind. Usually there is value to both the player and the team when a first contract is extended . As long as Geathers neck is OK ... why not ? 

[csmopar]

i dont see it happening in the next week, if it does happen, it'll be after the focus shifts next week after the first day or so of signings.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, dw49 said:

With the 2017 FA list shrinking by the day , will there maybe be more value in extending a few players  ? Geathers and Mewhort would come to mind. Usually there is value to both the player and the team when a first contract is extended . As long as Geathers neck is OK ... why not ? 

 

Geathers isn't eligible for an extension until after the 2017 season, per CBA rules. Has to wait three years from his draft.

 

I would be extending Mewhort and Moncrief this year, if it were up to me. 

[dw49]

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Geathers isn't eligible for an extension until after the 2017 season, per CBA rules. Has to wait three years from his draft.

 

I would be extending Mewhort and Moncrief this year, if it were up to me. 

 

 

I must have brought up an old site as I did wonder if Geathers would be eligible. It stated after rookie year but what you have does ring a bell. Yeah I would rather do Mewhort and Montcrief and get a little bang for the buck. I'm reading that teams are lining up for Nick Perry. Sometimes this talk is very unfounded but I don't doubt it.

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

I must have brought up an old site as I did wonder if Geathers would be eligible. It stated after rookie year but what you have does ring a bell. Yeah I would rather do Mewhort and Montcrief and get a little bang for the buck. I'm reading that teams are lining up for Nick Perry. Sometimes this talk is very unfounded but I don't doubt it.

 

I'm getting ready to do an offseason mock, and it's not going to be very sexy at edge. There isn't a lot out there, and the couple guys that are still available are going to be insanely overpaid. 

[Bluefire4]

I think Mewhort and Moncrief would rather bet on themselves and try to get better deals by staying healthy and producing next season... at least I would if I were them.

[dw49]

25 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

I think Mewhort and Moncrief would rather bet on themselves and try to get better deals by staying healthy and producing next season... at least I would if I were them.

 

 

It gives them a lot of security. Kind of the same as players not wanting to be franchised. 

[theanarchist]

Just now, dw49 said:

 

 

It gives them a lot of security. Kind of the same as players not wanting to be franchised. 

I don't see the Colts extending either guy. I hope they are both retained when they become FA's but I don't think the team will address either one this off season

[theanarchist]

38 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm getting ready to do an offseason mock, and it's not going to be very sexy at edge. There isn't a lot out there, and the couple guys that are still available are going to be insanely overpaid. 

No news on any of our FA's besides Doyle who apparently has turned down our offers. Im also interested in the status of Walden and Butler. Those 3 players were guys I was hoping we could retain but I think Walden may be looking at a huge payday given the year he had. Someone will probably give him a nice contract. I'd love to see him back because he is a solid player and he's the only guy we have that can pressure the QB from the edge.

[dw49]

36 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm getting ready to do an offseason mock, and it's not going to be very sexy at edge. There isn't a lot out there, and the couple guys that are still available are going to be insanely overpaid. 

 

 

I guess you either dabble in some guys with upside or just fix the RG issue and blow your brains on Ziegler  ? That's if he even hits the market.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Bluefire4 said:

I think Mewhort and Moncrief would rather bet on themselves and try to get better deals by staying healthy and producing next season... at least I would if I were them.

 

It's an interesting situation, but we see teams extend guys after Year 3 all the time, and it usually saves the team a little bit of money in the long run. Those two guys are set to make less than $800k in 2017, if you throw a nice signing bonus and raise at them, I think you can lock them up. Neither of them have a strong case for a big contract at this point.

[Superman]

32 minutes ago, dw49 said:

I guess you either dabble in some guys with upside or just fix the RG issue and blow your brains on Ziegler  ? That's if he even hits the market.

 

I'm opting for upside, personally.

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, Bluefire4 said:

I think Mewhort and Moncrief would rather bet on themselves and try to get better deals by staying healthy and producing next season... at least I would if I were them.

But I also think that's what Ballard wants to see before he extends them. Unless you have a no brainer elite talent at a position, I don't think you come in year 1 as GM and extend players who still have a year on their contracts. I'm sure he's watched all 16 games by now, but he doesn't really know the extent of Mewhort and Moncrief's talent. 2017 will be a pivotal year for both of them. Remember that Ballard has no inclination to either of them because he didn't draft them. 2017 will be an audition for a lot of Colts players.

[dw49]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm opting for upside, personally.

 

 

I lean that way also. I wouldn't mind over paying for an impact player like C Jones but these guards are often FA poison. 

[Defjamz26]

4 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

I lean that way also. I wouldn't mind over paying for an impact player like C Jones but these guards are often FA poison. 

And although the OT class is poor, the OG guard class is great. Bolles, Lamp, Feeney, Johnson,etc...Probably not a bad idea to draft one

[dw49]

5 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

And although the OT class is poor, the OG guard class is great. Bolles, Lamp, Feeney, Johnson,etc...Probably not a bad idea to draft one

 

 

No .. a guard makes sense.

[Bluefire4]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

 

It gives them a lot of security. Kind of the same as players not wanting to be franchised. 

I guess it depends on how they view themselves as players. Neither of them have showed they deserve to have big contracts so maybe they want to use next season to raise their stock. It is very tricky though.

[Bluefire4]

47 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's an interesting situation, but we see teams extend guys after Year 3 all the time, and it usually saves the team a little bit of money in the long run. Those two guys are set to make less than $800k in 2017, if you throw a nice signing bonus and raise at them, I think you can lock them up. Neither of them have a strong case for a big contract at this point.

But that is my point. Usually extensions go to players who get big contracts after producing (like TY and Castanzo). Moncrief and Mewhort won't get big deals so maybe they use next season to try and raise their stock as free agency approaches the following season.

 

I guess it depends on how much confidence they have in their ability to perform and stay healthy.

[Bluefire4]

41 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

But I also think that's what Ballard wants to see before he extends them. Unless you have a no brainer elite talent at a position, I don't think you come in year 1 as GM and extend players who still have a year on their contracts. I'm sure he's watched all 16 games by now, but he doesn't really know the extent of Mewhort and Moncrief's talent. 2017 will be a pivotal year for both of them. Remember that Ballard has no inclination to either of them because he didn't draft them. 2017 will be an audition for a lot of Colts players.

I agree but if they want to extend their deals than I would do it. They would just be making a lot less money than their talent shows because of injury problems.

 

If I were either of them and signed an extension this year for less than I thought I was worth, and then I had a breakout season I would be livid.

[Defjamz26]

5 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

I agree but if they want to extend their deals than I would do it. They would just be making a lot less money than their talent shows because of injury problems.

 

If I were either of them and signed an extension this year for less than I thought I was worth, and then I had a breakout season I would be livid.

Injuries may also factor into why it's better to wait and extend them. More so with Mewhort though. Better to wait and see. 

[dw49]

19 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

I guess it depends on how they view themselves as players. Neither of them have showed they deserve to have big contracts so maybe they want to use next season to raise their stock. It is very tricky though.

 

 

Yeah it is

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

But that is my point. Usually extensions go to players who get big contracts after producing (like TY and Castanzo). Moncrief and Mewhort won't get big deals so maybe they use next season to try and raise their stock as free agency approaches the following season.

 

I guess it depends on how much confidence they have in their ability to perform and stay healthy.

 

There are a lot of factors, for sure, but I think if you offered Moncrief a four year extension at $7-8m/year, with $9m cash in 2017, and a similar but smaller deal to Mewhort appropriate to his position, that they'd snap it up.

 

Moncrief would be looking at FA at 29. Mewhort plays a position that doesn't typically break the bank, and he's coming off of injury. The extension would take both players one year into the new CBA, so they'd have some security in a changing landscape. 

 

I'd at least make the pitch. If they want to bet on themselves, great, I have no problem with a player accepting and rising to a challenge. But when you offer that kind of pay increase to a player who still has a lot to prove, I think they'd be eager to cash in.

 

And of course, the contracts would be structured in a way that doesn't commit the team heavily.

[PrincetonTiger]

If any of the eligible players renegotiate and or get extensions it will not be in the near future

[dw49]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

There are a lot of factors, for sure, but I think if you offered Moncrief a four year extension at $7-8m/year, with $9m cash in 2017, and a similar but smaller deal to Mewhort appropriate to his position, that they'd snap it up.

 

Moncrief would be looking at FA at 29. Mewhort plays a position that doesn't typically break the bank, and he's coming off of injury. The extension would take both players one year into the new CBA, so they'd have some security in a changing landscape. 

 

I'd at least make the pitch. If they want to bet on themselves, great, I have no problem with a player accepting and rising to a challenge. But when you offer that kind of pay increase to a player who still has a lot to prove, I think they'd be eager to cash in.

 

And of course, the contracts would be structured in a way that doesn't commit the team heavily.

 

I mean you at some point need to spend some cap money. I would rather extend those 2 guys than pay Doyle 7-8 mill per year. 

[NewColtsFan]

 

Count me in the column that wants to (A) offer and extend both Mewhort and Moncrief.     I hope Ballard is doing that.     I'd be surprised if he wasn't.

 

Also....

 

Count me as wanting to retain Doyle.    I'm roughly in the 4/24 camp,  but if we have to go 5/30,  I'm doing it.   There are ways to structure the deal so it won't be too hard to get out in case we have to.    But I don't think we will.

 

We have the money this year and we want to show our own players that if they do well they will be rewarded.

 

That helps keep the locker room happy.     If we mess with these guys,  typically that hurts a locker room and it costs you more money in the long run.     The longer you put off signing these guys,  odds are their asking price will only go up.      I'd like to avoid that if we can.....

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

And although the OT class is poor, the OG guard class is great. Bolles, Lamp, Feeney, Johnson,etc...Probably not a bad idea to draft one

 

I'm a little confused?

 

Where are you reading that Bolles is a guard?       I haven't seen that anywhere.

 

He was a left tackle at Utah and he's a tackle on all the sites I read.   

 

He measured in today at 6'5" and 297.      Not many guards in the NFL at 297.      He'd have to gain 10 pounds just to be on the small side.

 

Are you confusing him with someone else? 

 

 

[Defjamz26]

28 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm a little confused?

 

Where are you reading that Bolles is a guard?       I haven't seen that anywhere.

 

He was a left tackle at Utah and he's a tackle on all the sites I read.   

 

He measured in today at 6'5" and 297.      Not many guards in the NFL at 297.      He'd have to gain 10 pounds just to be on the small side.

 

Are you confusing him with someone else? 

 

 

I was basing it off the fact that a lot of college LTs come in and move to guard in the league. Plus he's played guard before. Could play tackle but like Brandon Scherff, a team could easily draft him to play guard.

 

And his weight is fine. The other top guard prospects like Feeney and Lamp only have 6-9 pounds on him. Even so Zack Martin who is an all pro plays at 305. At the most he'd need to gain 5 pounds. He's really athletic so him gaining too much weight might compromise that. Zack Martin is an all pro who plays at 305.

[NewColtsFan]

28 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I was basing it off the fact that a lot of college LTs come in and move to guard in the league. Plus he's played guard before. Could play tackle but like Brandon Scherff, a team could easily draft him to play guard.

 

And his weight is fine. The other top guard prospects like Feeney and Lamp only have 6-9 pounds on him. Even so Zack Martin who is an all pro plays at 305. At the most he'd need to gain 5 pounds. He's really athletic so him gaining too much weight might compromise that. Zack Martin is an all pro who plays at 305.

 

I know this is going to sound like I'm being argumentative....    but I've never read that LT's come in and move to guard in the league.

 

I've read that about mostly RT's.    Right tackles who can't play that spot in the NFL often get moved inside to guard.

 

College's typically put their best lineman at LT.    That's why Lamp played at LT despite being short 6"4" and short armed,  around 31-32 inches.

 

I think any college LT that moves to guard is an exception to the rule,  but not the rule.

 

Typically if a LT can't play LT in the NFL,  he gets moved to RT.     That's the talk about Cam Robinson.    That he'd either play RT or maybe move inside to guard.     I guess it depends on the team that drafts the kid and what the short and long-term plans are for the player.

 

Again,  sorry,  I'm not trying to be difficult...   was just trying to understand your thinking.....

 

Thanks....

 

[Defjamz26]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I know this is going to sound like I'm being argumentative....    but I've never read that LT's come in and move to guard in the league.

 

I've read that about mostly RT's.  

 

College's typically put their best lineman at LT.    That's why Lamp played at LT despite being short 6"4" and short armed,  around 31-32 inches.

 

I think any college LT that moves to guard is an exception to the rule,  but not the rule.

 

Typically if a LT can't play LT in the NFL,  he gets moved to RT.     That's the talk about Cam Robinson.    That he'd either play RT or maybe move inside to guard.     I guess it depends on the team that drafts the kid and what the short and long-term plans are for the player.

 

Again,  sorry,  I'm not trying to be difficult...   was just trying to understand your thinking.....

 

Thanks....

 

That's been the recent trend though. Cody Whitehair. College LT projected to guard but ended up playing center. Brandon Scherff as I mentioned earlier. Zack Martin was a LT projected to LT/RT (and he probably could have played it) but was ultimately moved to guard. Germain Ifedi played LT his last year at Texas A&M, and now plays guard for the Seahawks. Not saying it always happens but that's been a trend lately. Bolles is a guard prospect to me although I think he'd also be fine at RT. I think a guy like Ramczyk is more of a LT.

[NewColtsFan]

26 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

That's been the recent trend though. Cody Whitehair. College LT projected to guard but ended up playing center. Brandon Scherff as I mentioned earlier. Zack Martin was a LT projected to LT/RT (and he probably could have played it) but was ultimately moved to guard. Germain Ifedi played LT his last year at Texas A&M, and now plays guard for the Seahawks. Not saying it always happens but that's been a trend lately. Bolles is a guard prospect to me although I think he'd also be fine at RT. I think a guy like Ramczyk is more of a LT.

 

Sorry,   I didn't see your earlier post with all the examples.     Thanks for reposting that.

 

Well...   the guys you list were projected inside because they are short and short armed.

 

Whitehair I think was 6'3" but not more than 6'4"

Martin was 6'4"

Sherff was 6'4"

 

I think they all had roughly 32 inch arms.       You can get away playing shorter and short armed players at LT in college.      But those guys were all projections to move inside to guard.      They weren't projected to play tackle.

 

I think Bolles is viewed as a left tackle because he's light on his feet and athletic.     Not saying he'll play the left side as a rookie,   but long term I believe he's viewed as a left tackle.

 

NOTE:    Just double checked.   He measured in with 34 inch arms.   Sounds LT to me.        Here is his profile from NFL.com

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/garett-bolles?id=2558014

 

Thanks for bearing with me on this....    appreciate the discussion....

 

[Chucklez]

11 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Geathers isn't eligible for an extension until after the 2017 season, per CBA rules. Has to wait three years from his draft.

 

I would be extending Mewhort and Moncrief this year, if it were up to me. 

If I were Mewhort or Moncrief I would be waiting until the end of the year and commanding a higher contract before I hit FA.

 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

My hope is that both Moncrief and Mewhort are extended, it makes good fiscal sense for the team to approach them regarding the extensions.  Both players have had injury issues this past season, which may make them receptive to sign an extension?

[Superman]

8 hours ago, Chucklez said:

If I were Mewhort or Moncrief I would be waiting until the end of the year and commanding a higher contract before I hit FA.

 

 

That's a reasonable viewpoint. It wouldn't stop me from making offers now and putting the ball in their court. 

[throwing BBZ]

This GM won`t extend either of them. For good reason.

[Valpo2004]

On 3/1/2017 at 4:30 PM, Superman said:

 

Geathers isn't eligible for an extension until after the 2017 season, per CBA rules. Has to wait three years from his draft.

 

I would be extending Mewhort and Moncrief this year, if it were up to me. 

 

Mewhort yes.  Moncrief I'd rather wait and see what happens.  He only had 1 productive year.  I'd like to see if last year was a down year because of injuries or if that was what we can expect from him from now on.  

[Chucklez]

13 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Mewhort yes.  Moncrief I'd rather wait and see what happens.  He only had 1 productive year.  I'd like to see if last year was a down year because of injuries or if that was what we can expect from him from now on.  

He missed like half the season.... of course it was due to injuries. I have no idea why so many people are so down on Moncrief. He's a td machine for us. 

[Valpo2004]

On 3/4/2017 at 5:59 AM, Chucklez said:

He missed like half the season.... of course it was due to injuries. I have no idea why so many people are so down on Moncrief. He's a td machine for us. 

 

Even in the games he played in he averaged only like 30 yards per game.  That's not very good.  We need someone who can take some pressure off TY and even when he was playing Moncrief was not doing that job.  

So essentially you are looking at a WR2 who's completely useless outside of the redzone.  We need a WR2 who can work between the 20's.  

 

That's why I'm down on him.  Very little production for the number of snaps he got. 

[Chucklez]

 

41 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Even in the games he played in he averaged only like 30 yards per game.  That's not very good.  We need someone who can take some pressure off TY and even when he was playing Moncrief was not doing that job.  

So essentially you are looking at a WR2 who's completely useless outside of the redzone.  We need a WR2 who can work between the 20's.  

 

That's why I'm down on him.  Very little production for the number of snaps he got. 

 

Actually, he played essentially in one less game than his stats show. He went down in the opening minutes of the game that put him out for most of the season. So he was averaging closer to 40 yards and a TD per game. That isnt something you turn your nose up at. Especially when playing through hammy injuries and coming back from a broken scapula.

[Valpo2004]

21 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

 

 

Actually, he played essentially in one less game than his stats show. He went down in the opening minutes of the game that put him out for most of the season. So he was averaging closer to 40 yards and a TD per game. That isnt something you turn your nose up at. Especially when playing through hammy injuries and coming back from a broken scapula.

 

That's why I'm willing to give him a chance to prove himself next year.  But with the volume of passing that we are doing, I'd like to see a WR2 who can average closer to 50 yards a game.  

 

That's 800 yards for a season if he plays all 16 games.  I think at this point in his career he should be able to do that, especially with how much the Colts throw the ball.  

 

One of the reasons TY Hilton led the league in receiving yards this year is because there where few other receivers out there really picking up the slack.  That sort of recognition is awesome on a individual level for TY of course but bad for the team because it would essentially allow other teams to focus their coverage on TY.   

[UKColt13]

I'd probably extend Mewhort and Creif this offseason before either of them has a breakout year and demands more money. Just good business sense. I can't see either of them getting more than 6-7m per right now.