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BPA at pick 14/15?


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Assuming the Colts stay put at pick 14/15, who will be the BPA when the Colts pick?  And I mean BPA for the Colts needs, not just the BPA regardless of team-needs.  We're not going to pull a "Grigson" and draft a speedy WR in the 1st just because they dropped that far...  So...

 

QB, FB, K, and P don't count for obvious reasons.  And no, P is not a huge need, even with the retirement of Boomstick.  Assuming the offense is effective, the P should be a non-factor anyway.

 

WR, C, DE, and S don't make much sense since those aren't major needs for the Colts.  Unless you want to let Mike Adams go, and move Geathers to ILB for passing downs, in which case, maybe a ball-hawking S makes sense.  Jury is still out on Green.

 

Almost every other position could use an upgrade.  I wouldn't mind another 1st round pick on the OLine, but I think 1st-round RBs, man-to-man "island" CBs, and EDGE-rushers are usually ready to go Day-1.  The best EDGE rushers will probably be gone by the middle of the 1st round, so even though EDGE rusher is our biggest need, I'm thinking either RB or CB.  Dalvin Cook and Sidney Jones seem to be popular right now.  I think they could both be starters early in the season, regardless of where they start on the depth chart.

 

Honestly, I hope Ballard finds a decent CB2 in FA and builds the trenches through the draft.  Get a big G/T/DT, because CB and RB can wait.  Ezekiel Elliot needed that Cowboys O-Line and Marcus Peters needed that Chiefs D-Line.  Get the big men in place first, then find the smaller athletes that can flourish playing behind Pro-Bowl Linemen.

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I could get with building the trenches first, even on OL, I just don't like the selection of another 1st round OL at this point.  I am fine if they want to go there later but IMHO they need a guy who can get after the QB in round 1.  If nobody you like is available, then go LB.  I think you build from the front to the back.  Good play up front is going to help your secondary.  If our guys can't get to the QB then no CB out there is going to be able to cover an NFL WR for 8 seconds.  Just can't be done.

 

So I would look for an EDGE 1st, then if not there go best rush LB.

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8 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

I could get with building the trenches first, even on OL, I just don't like the selection of another 1st round OL at this point.  I am fine if they want to go there later but IMHO they need a guy who can get after the QB in round 1.  If nobody you like is available, then go LB.  I think you build from the front to the back.  Good play up front is going to help your secondary.  If our guys can't get to the QB then no CB out there is going to be able to cover an NFL WR for 8 seconds.  Just can't be done.

 

So I would look for an EDGE 1st, then if not there go best rush LB.

 

I agree.  I just don't see Ballard being willing to give up what it will take to trade up high enough to get that EDGE rusher.  I think he will sit tight and take the best Lineman, whether offense or defense, that is available at 14/15.  If there is an elite MLB available, I could see that, because MLB isn't as devalued as it used to be.  Like HB.  If they're fast, and do well in open space, that's good.  But like I said, get the big men in place first, then find the smaller, more athletic guys that can flourish behind them.

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Completely depends on individuals draft boards. Grigson said that Dorsett was rated as a mid teens guy when he picked him in the mid 20's.

 

I don't think Dalvin or Fournette make it to #14 though before this becomes another 'Lets just take Dalvin!' thread.

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Grigson was also terrible at evaluating talent IMO.  This is why he had Dorsett ranked so high.  He was the issue with this, when other teams probably had Dorsett more of a 45-50 range.  Hopefully Ballard has better talent evaluation skills to help get better BPA's at each spot.  I will say that regardless of what he picks I feel more confident in him than I did with Grigson.  Not sure why but regardless I see him making a few moves in FA (not as much as others hope) and then being calculated with each pick.  He also will want to make an impact but understand this might be a two year process with some FA moves and drafts.

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I'm not sure how DE got on the "not major needs" list....

 

I appreciate that we have Anderson and Langford,  but one is in his 30's and other than the two OLB's,  DE is the position next in line where you'd expect some pass rush.

 

So, if the Colts love Taco Carlton as a DE,  and he's the highest rated defender on our board,  then I'm fine taking him.    

 

There is a saying among GM's and coaches.....     "You can NEVER have enough pass rush!"

 

And for a team like the Colts who have very little pass rush,  that's especially true.

 

If you like the DE,  take the DE.

 

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16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not sure how DE got on the "not major needs" list....

 

I appreciate that we have Anderson and Langford,  but one is in his 30's and other than the two OLB's,  DE is the position next in line where you'd expect some pass rush.

 

So, if the Colts love Taco Carlton as a DE,  and he's the highest rated defender on our board,  then I'm fine taking him.    

 

There is a saying among GM's and coaches.....     "You can NEVER have enough pass rush!"

 

And for a team like the Colts who have very little pass rush,  that's especially true.

 

If you like the DE,  take the DE.

 

I think the argument at this point is due to the lack of talent elsewhere. We have Anderson, Langford, Ridgeway and to a lesser extent Kerr (if we keep him) at DE. That is a fairly solid rotation, although not elite. That being said, the 2 most promising players are very young and could mature into above average - elite players given time and reps. Not really necessary to write them off and relegate them further down the depth chart. With the way the CBA is, the best chance for them to progress is in game situations. 

 

OLB on the other hand, we have Maggitt, Ayers and a couple camp bodies on the roster. We essentially have 2 rotational guys (at best) that have no business starting, and nothing else. 

 

OLB = Major need

DE = Not major need

 

Im not against grabbing a DE in this draft (if they are clearly the top player on the board, or at least the top defensive player) simply because any talented player will help the defense at this point, but I wouldnt call DE a position of Major Need. 

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54 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

I think the argument at this point is due to the lack of talent elsewhere. We have Anderson, Langford, Ridgeway and to a lesser extent Kerr (if we keep him) at DE. That is a fairly solid rotation, although not elite. That being said, the 2 most promising players are very young and could mature into above average - elite players given time and reps. Not really necessary to write them off and relegate them further down the depth chart. With the way the CBA is, the best chance for them to progress is in game situations. 

 

OLB on the other hand, we have Maggitt, Ayers and a couple camp bodies on the roster. We essentially have 2 rotational guys (at best) that have no business starting, and nothing else. 

 

OLB = Major need

DE = Not major need

 

Im not against grabbing a DE in this draft (if they are clearly the top player on the board, or at least the top defensive player) simply because any talented player will help the defense at this point, but I wouldnt call DE a position of Major Need. 

If that's the argument, it's not very strong.

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3 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

I think the argument at this point is due to the lack of talent elsewhere. We have Anderson, Langford, Ridgeway and to a lesser extent Kerr (if we keep him) at DE. That is a fairly solid rotation, although not elite. That being said, the 2 most promising players are very young and could mature into above average - elite players given time and reps. Not really necessary to write them off and relegate them further down the depth chart. With the way the CBA is, the best chance for them to progress is in game situations. 

 

OLB on the other hand, we have Maggitt, Ayers and a couple camp bodies on the roster. We essentially have 2 rotational guys (at best) that have no business starting, and nothing else. 

 

OLB = Major need

DE = Not major need

 

Im not against grabbing a DE in this draft (if they are clearly the top player on the board, or at least the top defensive player) simply because any talented player will help the defense at this point, but I wouldnt call DE a position of Major Need. 

 

Well....   the thread was about BPA when it comes time for our pick.     And while you may think DE is not a major need,   I would simply respond that PASS RUSH IS a major need.     And since DE is a position where you can generate pass rush I would say that DE is a major need.

 

I would also say that I don't view either Ridgeway, who I love, or Kerr, who I like,  as DE's.     They can play the position,  but I don't think it's their best position.     I think their DT's who have some versatility.      So, I'm not bypassing a quality DE like Carlton,  one who might not start his rookie year, but might his 2nd year,  just because we have Ridgeway and Kerr as back-ups.       

 

Find the pass rush you need.    And if it happens to come at DE and not OLB,  then draft the DE.

 

And I want to be clear,  I'm in FAVOR of drafting an OLB.     I think we WILL find one with our pick.    I'm simply stating I'm not opposed to drafting a quality DE if Ballard finds one he loves.

 

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BPA at 14/15 will probably be a corner and I'd be ok with that. It all depends on how deep Ballard and staff think the pass rushing talent is in this draft. It may benefit us to trade down and take Mckinley or Williams if Taco and Barnett are gone and we don't feel like the talent in the later rounds is worth it.

 

I don't know how to feel about drafting in the trenches this year. You can never have enough pieces, but on the D line we have young guys like Ridgeway, Kerr, McGill, and Anderson and we drafted 4 offensive linemen last year. It seems to me we need to look at FA for these spots unless the guy we draft is an immediate starter as we already have enough young talent developing

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6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well....   the thread was about BPA when it comes time for our pick.     And while you may think DE is not a major need,   I would simply respond that PASS RUSH IS a major need.     And since DE is a position where you can generate pass rush I would say that DE is a major need.

 

I would also say that I don't view either Ridgeway, who I love, or Kerr, who I like,  as DE's.     They can play the position,  but I don't think it's their best position.     I think their DT's who have some versatility.      So, I'm not bypassing a quality DE like Carlton,  one who might not start his rookie year, but might his 2nd year,  just because we have Ridgeway and Kerr as back-ups.       

 

Find the pass rush you need.    And if it happens to come at DE and not OLB,  then draft the DE.

 

And I want to be clear,  I'm in FAVOR of drafting an OLB.     I think we WILL find one with our pick.    I'm simply stating I'm not opposed to drafting a quality DE if Ballard finds one he loves.

 

It don't seem too many remember we play a 3-4 with some of the comments made.

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10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

It don't seem too many remember we play a 3-4 with some of the comments made.

 

I'm just trying to look for all the pass rush we can find.

 

I don't like having only two guys who can rush the passer,  the two OLB's.     So, if we can find another guy who can bring pressure,  then I'm all for it.      The more heat you can bring,  the better the odds that one of them is going to get to the QB.

 

Just my two cents,  and according to some,  often not worth even that much!        :thmup:

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19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm just trying to look for all the pass rush we can find.

 

I don't like having only two guys who can rush the passer,  the two OLB's.     So, if we can find another guy who can bring pressure,  then I'm all for it.      The more heat you can bring,  the better the odds that one of them is going to get to the QB.

 

Just my two cents,  and according to some,  often not worth even that much!        :thmup:

I only made that comment because a DE was brought into the conversation.

IMO we need to address the linebacker position for the pass rush and covering short passes. The short passes were killing us pretty much all season. The 8-10 yards passes ended up turning into 15-20 yard passes until the safeties or cornerbacks made the tackles.

We let entirely too many QBs just smoke us right up the middle with those types of passes.

My comment was not made directly to you, just in general. :hat:

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9 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I only made that comment because a DE was brought into the conversation.

IMO we need to address the linebacker position for the pass rush and covering short passes. The short passes were killing us pretty much all season. The 8-10 yards passes ended up turning into 15-20 yard passes until the safeties or cornerbacks made the tackles.

We let entirely too many QBs just smoke us right up the middle with those types of passes.

My comment was not made directly to you, just in general. :hat:

 

I don't disagree.

 

In a perfect world,  we would draft 1 OLB and 1 ILB,  and we sign a FA OLB and a FA ILB as well.

 

4 new linebackers.     And that's assuming that Ballard would want to clean house and start new.    For all we know he might like Morrison and/or Jackson inside?        I wouldn't rule them out.

 

When we had to stop Houston (x2) or Oakland or KC or even Chicago with Brian Hoyer,  we typically got shredded.      We really need a full re-build over the next 2-3 years.

 

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2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well....   the thread was about BPA when it comes time for our pick.     And while you may think DE is not a major need,   I would simply respond that PASS RUSH IS a major need.     And since DE is a position where you can generate pass rush I would say that DE is a major need.

 

I would also say that I don't view either Ridgeway, who I love, or Kerr, who I like,  as DE's.     They can play the position,  but I don't think it's their best position.     I think their DT's who have some versatility.      So, I'm not bypassing a quality DE like Carlton,  one who might not start his rookie year, but might his 2nd year,  just because we have Ridgeway and Kerr as back-ups.       

 

Find the pass rush you need.    And if it happens to come at DE and not OLB,  then draft the DE.

 

And I want to be clear,  I'm in FAVOR of drafting an OLB.     I think we WILL find one with our pick.    I'm simply stating I'm not opposed to drafting a quality DE if Ballard finds one he loves.

 

I agree.

Like i said i have no issue in drafting a DE if it is BPA, just that i wouldnt single out the position as a "major need". I think it is definitely a need, but not on the same level as olb at the moment. Not to the same level where that if there was 1 olb and 1 de of similar grade available at our pick that i would choose the de over the olb.

To me, for it to be a major need it would have to be to the point where i would be very unhappy if nothing was done at the position by the end of the offseason. I could live with DE position as it is. But I  would be livid if maggitt and Ayers are our starting OLBs week 1.

 

I think we are basically in agreement and just getting caught up in semantics. We are saying the same thing, im just on the left of it looking right and you are on the right looking left (if that makes any sense). 

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8 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

BPA at 14/15 will probably be a corner and I'd be ok with that. It all depends on how deep Ballard and staff think the pass rushing talent is in this draft. It may benefit us to trade down and take Mckinley or Williams if Taco and Barnett are gone and we don't feel like the talent in the later rounds is worth it.

 

I don't know how to feel about drafting in the trenches this year. You can never have enough pieces, but on the D line we have young guys like Ridgeway, Kerr, McGill, and Anderson and we drafted 4 offensive linemen last year. It seems to me we need to look at FA for these spots unless the guy we draft is an immediate starter as we already have enough young talent developing

The only defensive lineman you mentioned who has proven he is a quality starter in the NFL is Anderson....and he has now torn is ACL twice in his football career. Drafting Dline in the first is more than acceptable,

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5 hours ago, BOTT said:

The only defensive lineman you mentioned who has proven he is a quality starter in the NFL is Anderson....and he has now torn is ACL twice in his football career. Drafting Dline in the first is more than acceptable,

But the others can still develop into starters. If we draft the guy in the first he better be an immediate impact starter or it will get us nowhere.

 

As long as whoever we draft makes an impact I really don't care where it is with all the needs we have.

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