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Drafting Dalvin Cook


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6 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Fumbling is an easy fix and he got in trouble as a teen, who hasn't. Williams off the field issues are well documented and actually he can pass block. Go watch tape

 

As for taco and Barnett, I've seen them mocked to the jets and saints respectively a number of times and that's before the combine and pro day when their stock will rise

We just disagree and I'm completely mind boggled there's so much interest for taking a rb at #15. It's like I'm in the twilight zone. 

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6 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

We just disagree and I'm completely mind boggled there's so much interest for taking a rb at #15. It's like I'm in the twilight zone. 

 

I'm not against taking a defensive player, I just don't want us to reach because it's a need especially if all the good ones are off the board

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6 hours ago, Majin Vegeta said:

We just disagree and I'm completely mind boggled there's so much interest for taking a rb at #15. It's like I'm in the twilight zone. 

Don't worry, you're not. Just don't look at the Colts Facebook posts talking about the draft. Just about every cretin in the comments on there want either Cook or an offensive lineman.....O.o

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What's the point in drafting a RB first round, only giving him 10 carries a game because our defense still can't stop anyone. 

 

There will always be a sexy skill position player available when we pick, but if we keep taking him a la Phillip Dorsett we are never going to address the big reason we aren't contenders. The defense.

 

We are unbeaten in game when Luck is at QB and we allow less than 19 points. Drafting a RB doesn't help that happen more often.

 

Dalvin may well be the BPA. Or he might be gone in the top 10 (probably more likely).  Either way I would take an OLB, DE, CB, ILB all before I looked at RB.

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5 hours ago, UKColt13 said:

What's the point in drafting a RB first round, only giving him 10 carries a game because our defense still can't stop anyone. 

 

There will always be a sexy skill position player available when we pick, but if we keep taking him a la Phillip Dorsett we are never going to address the big reason we aren't contenders. The defense.

 

We are unbeaten in game when Luck is at QB and we allow less than 19 points. Drafting a RB doesn't help that happen more often.

 

Dalvin may well be the BPA. Or he might be gone in the top 10 (probably more likely).  Either way I would take an OLB, DE, CB, ILB all before I looked at RB.

People just fall in love with the skill positions. Everyone wants a sexy flashy pick that will "turn the offense into truly elite". But fail to realize we have the highest paid QB(complete stud) a complete stud WR and a good offense already. And a complete bare defense(the thing that ultimately wins championships)

 But we should still invest a 1st on a RUNNINGBACK. Oh my lanta it's insane. It truly is. 

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3 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

People just fall in love with the skill positions. Everyone wants a sexy flashy pick that will "turn the offense into truly elite". But fail to realize we have the highest paid QB(complete stud) a complete stud WR and a good offense already. And a complete bare defense(the thing that ultimately wins championships)

 But we should still invest a 1st on a RUNNINGBACK. Oh my lanta it's insane. It truly is. 

Not to mention we had a pretty good RB last year. 

Even if he is getting up there in age, he is still posting solid numbers. Not sure how anyone can see replacing the 12th best rusher in the league as a higher priority then the worst front 7. 

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On 2/23/2017 at 6:41 AM, CR91 said:

 

Thomas has never had to stand up, McKinley would be a reach at 14, Barnett won't get past the saints, Williams isn't that impressive to me and horrible character. If we address CB and DL through free agency like I expect then those two positions are highly unlikely to be our first pick.

Who cares if Thomas has never had to stand up.  Guys make that small transition all the time.

 

i doubt whomever the colts pick up in free agency effect who they will draft.

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46 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

People just fall in love with the skill positions. Everyone wants a sexy flashy pick that will "turn the offense into truly elite". But fail to realize we have the highest paid QB(complete stud) a complete stud WR and a good offense already. And a complete bare defense(the thing that ultimately wins championships)

 But we should still invest a 1st on a RUNNINGBACK. Oh my lanta it's insane. It truly is. 

I'm just thinking that those who want a RB in the 1st round would be awfully disappointed when they find out he only gets 10 carries a game for like 35 yards.

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1 hour ago, BOTT said:

Who cares if Thomas has never had to stand up.  Guys make that small transition all the time.

 

i doubt whomever the colts pick up in free agency effect who they will draft.

 That last line makes zero sense

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1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 That last line makes zero sense

In case you havnt noticed, free agent signings are rarely game changers.  Unless the colts get a young stud like Brandon Williams, then I don't see FA altering how the colts draft.

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13 hours ago, BOTT said:

In case you havnt noticed, free agent signings are rarely game changers.  Unless the colts get a young stud like Brandon Williams, then I don't see FA altering how the colts draft.

 

Neither are draft picks, more busts then game changers especially in the first round

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2 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Neither are draft picks, more busts then game changers especially in the first round

"especially in the first".....compared to what other round?  We all know the draft is littered with jags,  but it's much more likely to get a game changer in the draft than free agency, because teams rarely let those type of players hit free agency. It would be nice to get one, but the chances are slim.

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I think everyone knows how I feel about drafting RBs early, especially with a premium first round pick. In short, I'm against it.

 

That said, Dalvin Cook is really good. He has some issues -- he's smallish and lacks ability to finish between the tackles (projecting to the NFL, that is; he finishes fine in college), he has issues with ball security, and while he's a natural hands catcher he tends to drop some passes. There's also a few off the field incidents that he's been connected to, and teams will have to decide how they feel about his character and ability to be responsible.

 

He's still really good. He would fit in any rushing scheme, but would be best in a zone scheme, especially a stretch zone. As a runner, he does compare to Edge, and he has dual purpose ability like Edge did. He's also a heady and alert pass protector. 

 

I haven't watched enough players to say definitively, but I would project him as a top 20 player in this draft, and I wouldn't be surprised if some team takes him in the first half of the first round. He's not as good as Ezekiel Elliott or Todd Gurley, but he's very talented.

 

I would not want the Colts to draft him unless he dropped into the second round. 

 

Based on who I've watched so far, it's Fournette, Cook, McCaffrey, in that order. Fournette probably has the potential to go in the top ten. I don't think he's as good as Elliott or Gurley either, but his blend of size and athleticism makes him a different kind of prospect. Don't want him in the first, either.

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On 2/24/2017 at 7:34 PM, SaturdayAllDay said:

Not to mention we had a pretty good RB last year. 

Even if he is getting up there in age, he is still posting solid numbers. Not sure how anyone can see replacing the 12th best rusher in the league as a higher priority then the worst front 7. 

becasue our running game still isnt good

 

the reason gore doesnt get more carries is his snap count.  a young back wouldnt have that limitation

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3 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

becasue our running game still isnt good

 

the reason gore doesnt get more carries is his snap count.  a young back wouldnt have that limitation

and someone like Cook could turn those 7-10 yrd carries Gore had into 20+ yard carries because Gore doesn't have his explosiveness anymore.

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20 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

becasue our running game still isnt good

 

the reason gore doesnt get more carries is his snap count.  a young back wouldnt have that limitation

 

14 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

and someone like Cook could turn those 7-10 yrd carries Gore had into 20+ yard carries because Gore doesn't have his explosiveness anymore.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

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1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

becasue our running game still isnt good

 

the reason gore doesnt get more carries is his snap count.  a young back wouldnt have that limitation

OR maybe you just read a random quote on the internet and assumed that we give Gore limited snaps.

I think you would be interested to know that Gore had the 7th Most rushing attempts in the NFL last year, and the 5th most the year before that. Does that sound like someone on a snap count to you?? You keep using this so called "limitation" on Gore as your argument. Tell me, Is LeVeon Bell on a snap count?? Are Melvin Gordon, LeSean McCoy, and Jordan Howard on snap counts? Cuz Gore had more rushing attempts than all of them. 

 

The reason our rushing attack is ranked so low is because as a team, we do not rush much. Our offensive gameplan is to give the ball to 12 as much as possible and let him do his thing. We have a backup RB that came in with a career 4+ YPC average, that had no issue being a 60-80 carry per year backup in Seattle, and yet we gave him 47 carries, with most of them being goal line touches. The only reason a team would bring in a decent backup and not use them to their ability is because they didnt intend to use him extensively unless an injury to Gore happened. Otherwise they would have A-Given Turbin more chances to run the ball or B- not even bothered to get Turbin in the first place if they didnt think he could handle the load they wanted to give him. We are a team that wants to use 1 bell cow RB, and not much else. We run to set up the pass and run out the clock. 

 

The only way we would use Cook properly, in tandem with Gore, is if our offense underwent an entire scheme change to facilitate him. Seeing as our coaches have done nothing to facilitate ANY of our players (including Luck) by tweaking their scheme, this leads me to believe that isnt going to happen. If you think that we should cut Gore to facilitate using Cook more, well then I dont know what to tell you, other than our GM would be 10x dumber than Grigson to ignore the defense simply to do something like that. There will be an argument to draft some flashy offensive guy every draft, and if we keep doing it then we will never fix the defense.

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1 hour ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

The reason our rushing attack is ranked so low is because as a team, we do not rush much.

because no one on the roster but gore is worth giving that many snaps to

 

gore's pitch count is real too, it came from pagano's mouth

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8 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

because no one on the roster but gore is worth giving that many snaps to

 

gore's pitch count is real too, it came from pagano's mouth

if the snap count is real, he would actually be on one!!!! He has more snaps than 95% of the RBs in the league!! Guess what, Pagano says a lot of things that contradict what they do on the field. He also said he wanted to run a power run offense and then proceeded to run only 27% of the time in 2014. Does him saying that make us a power run team?? Oh and while we are talking about you believing Paganos words being gospel, he has often stated he wants 1 RB to carry the load. Sounds like by your own logic, Pagano doesnt want another RB. Why would he draft a 1st round RB if he has his "Bell cow" that he gives all his carries to. What I am trying to say is, actions speak much louder than words. 

 

If the team was so worried about running more they would have already found someone worth giving the extra snaps to!! If they didnt believe in Turbin, why didnt we make a play for Ivory, Miller, Forte, Powell, Morris or any of the other RBs who hit free agency last year?? Its not like Gore was significantly better in 2015 and just this season fell off a cliff (he actually put up better stats this year). 

 

There is a theory in problem solving known as Occam's Razor, which basically states that when you have a bunch of competing hypotheses, that the simplest one is often the best one, as the more assumptions you can make for an argument, the more arguments can be made against them. 

 

So we have your theory:

-The Colts Want to run more, but dont have the personnel

-they dont actively seek out the correct personnel for reasons unknown

-that they wont even give a shot to the people that they signed because they just "know they arent good", despite never having a shot in their specific system. 

-that although they believe in a 1 RB system and have said as much dozens of times, Our coaches really want a committee approach. 

 

Or my theory:

The Colts run a finite amount of times because they like the offensive balance and their RB splits as is. 

 

Now which one seems more likely?

 

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38 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

none of these guys played 16 games

You think in the 1 game McCoy missed he would have ran 30 times? Thats how far behind Gore he was. You can make an argument for the other 2, but even then. The fact remains that he had more carries than Every RB not named Zeke Elliot, LG Blount, David Johnson, Demarco Murray, Todd Gurley, and Lamar Miller  in 2016 and Every Rb not named AP, Doug Martin, Lat Murray or Devonte Freeman in 2015. In fact, only Gore and Gurley are the 2 RBs to make it in the top 10 in Rush attempts both years, and over the last 2 years  Gore has the most carries in the NFL. How is that in any way a snap count???

 

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25 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

 

Or my theory:

The Colts run a finite amount of times because they like the offensive balance and their RB splits as is. 

 

Now which one seems more likely?

 

youre wrong.  the colts are in the bottom third of the league in rushing yards, and nobody is happy with that

 

even if gore has a lot of snaps he is still on a pitch count.  if you want 100 yard games and you average 4 per carry than you need 25 carries. 

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1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

youre wrong.  the colts are in the bottom third of the league in rushing yards, and nobody is happy with that

 

even if gore has a lot of snaps he is still on a pitch count.  if you want 100 yard games and you average 4 per carry than you need 25 carries. 

So every RB in the league is on a pitch count?? Seriously dude.... words do not describe how ridiculous that is... 

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22 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

Yes they can say that all they want but the numbers dont reflect a pitch count. Words and plans are not more valid that what actually happened. What happened was that Gore had the most carries in the NFL from 2015-2016. If you wanna get caught up on semantics because you think 260 carries is a "pitch count" because you heard the words, than that is your issue. The fact is, it is right in line with the 268 carries Gore averaged in SF for his last 4 seasons there. That was good enough for a top 10 finish for carries 3/4 years. Gore's carries have been sitting around this level for most of his career. 

That raises the serious question, IF they wanted to run more, why only invest in 1 RB who they know has a 260-270 carry limit??? They have sat at around the same number of rushes/ season for this whole period Pagano has been here, regardless of whether they use 1 RB, 2 RBs or 4 RBs. Until the coaches change we wont really see much a difference. 

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2 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Yes they can say that all they want but the numbers dont reflect a pitch count. Words and plans are not more valid that what actually happened. What happened was that Gore had the most carries in the NFL from 2015-2016. If you wanna get caught up on semantics because you think 260 carries is a "pitch count" because you heard the words, than that is your issue. The fact is, it is right in line with the 268 carries Gore averaged in SF for his last 4 seasons there. That was good enough for a top 10 finish for carries 3/4 years. Gore's carries have been sitting around this level for most of his career. 

That raises the serious question, IF they wanted to run more, why only invest in 1 RB who they know has a 260-270 carry limit??? They have sat at around the same number of rushes/ season for this whole period Pagano has been here, regardless of whether they use 1 RB, 2 RBs or 4 RBs. Until the coaches change we wont really see much a difference. 

260 is not a lot though, elliot had 322.  if gurley didnt miss games as a rookie his count would be higher than franks over the last two seasons

 

gore may have had the most in 15, but thats becasue he played 16 games.   youre comparing his count to guys that missed games, plus elliot had by far the most this year and hes a rookie. 

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3 hours ago, aaron11 said:

260 is not a lot though, elliot had 322.  if gurley didnt miss games as a rookie his count would be higher than franks over the last two seasons

 

gore may have had the most in 15, but thats becasue he played 16 games.   youre comparing his count to guys that missed games, plus elliot had by far the most this year and hes a rookie. 

If 260 wasnt a lot, then every team would have a RB with that many rushes, or more. It isnt a lot compared to 20 years ago, but the league is changing. Only a dozen RBs a year hit the 250 mark anymore. And Gore has done it consistently. How is that a bad thing?

I seriously dont get what you are trying to argue... That getting a RB in round one will magically change our coaches whole perspective on the game and we will become a Run heavy team? That just because 1 rookie got more than 300 carries, that every rookie will automatically do it? 

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2 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

If 260 wasnt a lot, then every team would have a RB with that many rushes, or more. It isnt a lot compared to 20 years ago, but the league is changing. Only a dozen RBs a year hit the 250 mark anymore. And Gore has done it consistently. How is that a bad thing?

I seriously dont get what you are trying to argue... That getting a RB in round one will magically change our coaches whole perspective on the game and we will become a Run heavy team? That just because 1 rookie got more than 300 carries, that every rookie will automatically do it? 

 

Why would we have to be a Run Heavy team if we spend a 1st rd. pick on a player that would be the BPA and also the least chance of being a Bust? Not to mention 90% chance of contributing and being productive Day One.

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