Lawrence Owen

Defensively: How would you fix this?

Recommended Posts

Carlos Danger    875

Nobody is fixing this defense in 1 offseason... 

 

A good start would be signing Williams or Poe at DT and Brown at ILB, if possible. 

We need at least one player (starter) at every defensive position except maybe DE. That will take a couple years unless we try to buy a defense, which is ill-advised. 

 

The offense is far from perfect, as well. That's why I won't be upset when we draft an o-lineman or RB in the first 3 rounds. The process will take at least two off-seasons, so I'm not going to cry if E. Jackson or R. Melvin has to start next season. 

I also wont be upset if Gore and Turbin are our RBs next season, nor will it mess up my summer if we don't get to re-sign Doyle. 

 

Any of these things will be just fine as long as we are making significant strides to get younger playmakers (especially on defense) and becoming a more balanced team. I'm not saying that we won't compete next season, just that we should be thinking about 15 draft picks and two FA periods before anything can be considered "fixed"

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Superman    27,117
7 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'm more interested in a possible deal for Kendricks honestly 

 

What would you give up for Kendricks? I'm curious what it would take.

 

He would be due $6m in 2017, $7m in 2018. The money makes sense. He'll be 27 in September (I thought he was older; this is Year 6 for him). I'd love to have him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Colts_Fan12    3,646
25 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What would you give up for Kendricks? I'm curious what it would take.

 

He would be due $6m in 2017, $7m in 2018. The money makes sense. He'll be 27 in September (I thought he was older; this is Year 6 for him). I'd love to have him. 

At 4th if it possible for a later pick of course I'd take it but highest would prolly be a 4th. I'm a fan of Reeves Maybin from Tennessee I'd take him in the 5th and pair him with Kendricks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
theanarchist    926
1 hour ago, Carlos Danger said:

Nobody is fixing this defense in 1 offseason... 

 

A good start would be signing Williams or Poe at DT and Brown at ILB, if possible. 

We need at least one player (starter) at every defensive position except maybe DE. That will take a couple years unless we try to buy a defense, which is ill-advised. 

 

The offense is far from perfect, as well. That's why I won't be upset when we draft an o-lineman or RB in the first 3 rounds. The process will take at least two off-seasons, so I'm not going to cry if E. Jackson or R. Melvin has to start next season. 

I also wont be upset if Gore and Turbin are our RBs next season, nor will it mess up my summer if we don't get to re-sign Doyle. 

 

Any of these things will be just fine as long as we are making significant strides to get younger playmakers (especially on defense) and becoming a more balanced team. I'm not saying that we won't compete next season, just that we should be thinking about 15 draft picks and two FA periods before anything can be considered "fixed"

The way things sit, we need to sign some veteran free agents. Hopefully smart acquisitions. No way we go after Poe. He'll get big money and those guys hardly ever play up to the money they get. I look for us to sign a veteran ILB, CB or S, OL and then fortify things with the draft. I agree tho, its going to take more than one off season.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xander    1,850

 If you look at Grigson’s draft record, he drafted only one 3-4 OLB who actually played that position in college, Trevor Bates, in the 7th Round of the 2016 draft. Bates was cut and immediately signed by the Patriots. Also, Grigson drafted an NFL low 4 defensive backs. Yes, that includes both cornerbacks and safeties.

 

 

Just crazy. I think our defense next year will be better than we think. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
chad72    6,426
14 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

 If you look at Grigson’s draft record, he drafted only one 3-4 OLB who actually played that position in college, Trevor Bates, in the 7th Round of the 2016 draft. Bates was cut and immediately signed by the Patriots. Also, Grigson drafted an NFL low 4 defensive backs. Yes, that includes both cornerbacks and safeties.

 

 

Just crazy. I think our defense next year will be better than we think. 

 

Does that mean Tabor is a possibility if everything checks out regarding his history?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xander    1,850
7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Does that mean Tabor is a possibility if everything checks out regarding his history?

 

I couldn't tell ya haha. Dont know a lot about him. I actually like his teammate Quincy Wilson more!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NewColtsFan    12,945

 

Well....

 

First off,   the Colts are NOT going to fix this defense in one off-season.      We are NOT one off-season away from a deep run in the playoffs.

 

Second,   I'd focus both the free agency period as well as the draft on defense.    And I'd be trying to add players at every level,  not just linebacker.     We need to get better everywhere.     Every level of the defense.    

 

And, fortunately,  this is a good draft for that.    


 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BProland85    1,461

How I would fix the defense...

 

In free agency - Go hard after OLB Melvin Ingram and NT Johnathan Hankins as my top 2 targets.

                       

In the draft - Round 1 I would trade down 8 spots or so and pick up an extra 2nd. With my 1st pick I would take CB Sidney Jones.

- Then I'd offer up my 2017 3rd and 2018 2nd to move up to the early 2nd to select either Takkarist McKinley or Charles Harris (One should be available).

- Then with my second 2nd round pick I'd select CB Jourdan Lewis to solidify the Cornerback group.

- Another player in the 4th/5th round area I'd target would be FS John Johnson. For ILB I'd select Jalen Reeves-Maybin later in the draft to give Indy an athletic LB on the inside. This year's class is weak at ILB, and there aren't any studs to go get in free agency.

- A few UDFAs I'd target would be ILB Ben Boulware and DE/OLB Joe Mathis.

 

Next offseason I'd focus on getting a long term athletic ILB and an impact DT to pair with Hankins and Anderson as starters.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jbaron04    585

2017 60m after Jackson cut 

1. A. Jones take pay cut or cut play Nt 

2. Go after hightower if you strike out eagle mostly gonna cut Kendrick see if you can grab him on a 2 year team friendly deal

3. See if you can get Ingram or pass rusher 

4. Make a play for t. Johnson or Gilmore

Assuming you get at least 1 or 2 of these players .....next 

 

2017 Draft 

1st pass rusher 

2nd corner 

3rd lb 

4th Dl 

5th bpa on def 

6-7 bpa 

 

2018 draft 

1St Dl

2nd Lb 

3rd dl 

4-7 bpa 

 

Say it works out we looking at 2017

Le - Anderson 

Nt - A. Jones

Re - ridgeway

Rolb - rookie 

Mlb *Kendrick 

Ilb * hightower 

Lolb - ayers or *Ingram 

Cb vonte 

Cb rookie 

Cb Robinson 

Ss geathers 

Fs green 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lawrence Owen    559

One thing i'd like to point out is this: I <3 Ayers.  I think he has all the tools to be and all around 3 down OLB.  He can cover well,...tackle, and has a little wiggle in the pass rush dept.  I am not saying he is a star, but i like him enough that i would not be upset if he made on of the olb starters.  he had a few snaps last year, and provided a few impact plays in those snaps..he needs more time to adjust to our schemes and playbooks, and work with the other player..that is what the offseason is for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how i would do it trade a 4th and sixth for ragland and kendricks from philly 

sign ingram ,jefferson ,fairley as defensive fa 

draft one of top 3 cbs or solomon , malik , ,barnett  in irst round 

second round draft the second tier pass rusher

round 3 chidobe awuzle 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
crunked    222

Responding to no one in particular but to "general comments" on this thread made by several. Ballard said it starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball, that's true...However, you have to be reasonable as a GM there is arguably more quality talent in this draft at LB'er and Secondary. Couple that with the Colts have more NEED in those two areas defensively because although the D-Line is not the iron curtain, it is far from the biggest weakness on D.

 

Next thought Vontae Davis, I would agree with the nagging injury assessment of late, he was hopefully suffering that this last season at best or has lost a step at worst. To me this is his show me year as his contract will be coming up soon. Now having said that, I remember back in the Dungy era when we were suffering many Secondary injuries Dungy alluding to the fact that it was in part to failure of the front seven making the majority of the tackles, that the DB's being smaller framed by design cant take the punishment. Now I don't believe that to be the only contributing factor to the secondarys injuries of late but I think you can argue it adds to it.

 

Lastly in a kind of joking/serious point of view we could actually draft all LB'ers in this draft there is that much need at the postion Starting and back up Rush, (if walden is not resigned,) start and back up run stop OLB's and pass protect ILB and run stop ILB.....we won't do that of course, nor do I think we should go all LB. Just ironic that we "could" and no one would bat an eye.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tmoney    242
On 2/13/2017 at 8:24 AM, Chucklez said:

Yep, anyone who says otherwise about our defense is clearly in denial.

I think you are being a bit down on Davis to be fair though, considering our complete and total lack of any pass rush, I think Vontae has been phenomenal. I agree it would be great if we can get away from any nagging injuries, but id put a lot of the issues he has had over the last 2 years (and he hasnt exactly been bad considering) down to the rest of the defense just not doing their jobs to help him.

If Vontae was on the field for the Seahawks, Texans or Chiefs he'd have been an All Pro.

That's the fan talking. Now without a biased opinion break down how Vontae has played over the last 2 years. It hurts for me to say but Vontae isn't and won't be the same player again. Yes the rest of our D isn't helping him but hes also not doing his job well enough. Blame his team mates blame his injuries, ultimately his play needs to be a lot better. No way Vontae has played at an All-Pro level since 2014-2015 doesn't matter who's rushing the passer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/13/2017 at 8:44 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well....

 

First off,   the Colts are NOT going to fix this defense in one off-season.      We are NOT one off-season away from a deep run in the playoffs.

 

Second,   I'd focus both the free agency period as well as the draft on defense.    And I'd be trying to add players at every level,  not just linebacker.     We need to get better everywhere.     Every level of the defense.    

 

And, fortunately,  this is a good draft for that.    


 

This is true. Also everyone thinks that drafting a rookie to fill a hole works and the hole goes away!! The harsh reality is few Rockies start, and most struggle when they do! But this draft is loaded with defensive talent lets hope they pick and evaluate well in the up coming draft!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tmoney said:

That's the fan talking. Now without a biased opinion break down how Vontae has played over the last 2 years. It hurts for me to say but Vontae isn't and won't be the same player again. Yes the rest of our D isn't helping him but hes also not doing his job well enough. Blame his team mates blame his injuries, ultimately his play needs to be a lot better. No way Vontae has played at an All-Pro level since 2014-2015 doesn't matter who's rushing the passer. 

Unfortunately this is true too! He's not playing at an all pro level. Injuries last year may be the reason. Lets also remember I believe he turns 30 this year. How many more years does he really have??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chucklez    734
4 hours ago, Tmoney said:

That's the fan talking. Now without a biased opinion break down how Vontae has played over the last 2 years. It hurts for me to say but Vontae isn't and won't be the same player again. Yes the rest of our D isn't helping him but hes also not doing his job well enough. Blame his team mates blame his injuries, ultimately his play needs to be a lot better. No way Vontae has played at an All-Pro level since 2014-2015 doesn't matter who's rushing the passer. 

I didnt mean his play for us has been All Pro, I meant if he was surrounded by the players and schemes of the defenses on those teams mentioned, he would be considered in that tier of players because he would look so much better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Surge89    695

I've stated multiple times over the past 4 months or so that the only way we can start trending in the correct direction is if we literally put every resource we have into the linebackers and DB corp.  I'd prefer to sign an OLB (Ingram) and a DT via Free Agency.  Everything else would just be fluff.  I would prefer that we spend all of our picks on linebackers with a corner dabbed in anywhere.

 

I wouldn't mind a draft of 1-ILB, 2-Corner, 3-OLB, 4-ILB, 5-OLB, 6-ILB, 7OLB.  If a safety or corner can sneak in there I'm all for that as well.  But until the linebacker spot is addressed heavily to compensate for the past 6 years its been neglected I doubt we will get anywhere on defense. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
riftastic28    63

 Round 1  (trade back)
Takkarist McKinley*, 3-4OLB, UCLA 
Height: 6-2. Weight: 265. 
Projected 40 Time: 4.62. 

Trading back acouple picks to gain an extra pick and I think the best pass rushing linebacker the guys and athletic freak

Round 2
Ryan Anderson, OLB, Alabama 
Height: 6-2. Weight: 255. 
Projected 40 Time: 4.78.

Another linebacker why because we can't tackle. He can shed blocks cover and put pressure on the qb. I think he is the best linebacker this year in bama.

Round 2
Raekwon McMillan, ILB, Ohio State 
Height: 6-2. Weight: 240. 
Projected 40 Time: 4.70. 
 
He would be are middle linebacker for years . He also has the body where he can gain another 10 pounds

Round 3
Cameron Sutton, CB, Tennessee 
 Height: 5-11. Weight: 186. 
Projected 40 Time: 4.51. 
 
Very good cover corner he also can tackle . I think he should go in the 2nd but everywhere I read say he's going in the 3rd 4th round if that's the case I'll take him here

Round 4
Joe Mixon**, RB, Oklahoma 
 Height: 6-1. Weight: 226. 
 Projected 40 Time: 4.48

Oh boy very talented probably the best back in this draft he can run catch everything we need as long as he hits hole and not women he's a steal. I think Denver snags him in round 1

Round 4
 Charles Walker, DT, Oklahoma 
Height: 6-2. Weight: 299. 
Projected 40 Time: 5.14.

He had a great year last year that would of made him a late first to a early second round pick . But after suffering an injury and missing all but two games could drop him into the 4th .

Round 5
Josh Augusta, DT, Missouri 
Height: 6-4. Weight: 355. 
Projected 40 Time: 5.10

A huge guy to rotate in the middle who is fast on his feet for his size and will collapsed the line and demand double teams

Round 6
 Josh Malone*, WR, Tennessee 
 Height: 6-3. Weight: 198. 
 Projected 40 Time: 4.50. 

Talented receiver who didn't have a great qb but still managed to put up great numbers.

Free agents

DT    Dontari Poe
MLB Daryl Washington
DE.   Calais Campbell
RG.   Larry Warford

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/13/2017 at 0:06 PM, Superman said:

 

What would you give up for Kendricks? I'm curious what it would take.

 

He would be due $6m in 2017, $7m in 2018. The money makes sense. He'll be 27 in September (I thought he was older; this is Year 6 for him). I'd love to have him. 

Mychal Kendricks from Philly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
throwing BBZ    1,379
On 2/13/2017 at 3:06 PM, Superman said:

 

What would you give up for Kendricks? I'm curious what it would take.

 

He would be due $6m in 2017, $7m in 2018. The money makes sense. He'll be 27 in September (I thought he was older; this is Year 6 for him). I'd love to have him. 

 

 Be nice if it was a 2018 4th.
 I see $5M and $6M. Even better.
 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/mychal-kendricks-9856/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
indyagent17    745
On 2/13/2017 at 8:01 AM, Chucklez said:

I'd roll with Gore and Turbin for another year as well.... We can address RB next year or later in the draft....

This!

 

The O line should be better and more experienced and a new addition would help too so let Gore and Turbin run the ball and draft a RB late in the draft or undrafted free agency 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tmoney    242
On 2/16/2017 at 9:51 AM, Chucklez said:

I didnt mean his play for us has been All Pro, I meant if he was surrounded by the players and schemes of the defenses on those teams mentioned, he would be considered in that tier of players because he would look so much better.

He would be a lot better with better players around him, but he's never going to be at that high level again. He won't be a top 5 corner anymore no matter who he's got around him. I love Vontae man as much as all us colts fans, but if CB decides to move on from him I'm actually for it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chucklez    734
12 hours ago, Tmoney said:

He would be a lot better with better players around him, but he's never going to be at that high level again. He won't be a top 5 corner anymore no matter who he's got around him. I love Vontae man as much as all us colts fans, but if CB decides to move on from him I'm actually for it

we cannot move on from Vontae yet.... there is no one to replace him.....

We need a few years to groom someone behind him. Let him play out his contract and then maybe franchise tag him for a year, then move on once we are ready to.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tmoney    242
12 hours ago, Chucklez said:

we cannot move on from Vontae yet.... there is no one to replace him.....

We need a few years to groom someone behind him. Let him play out his contract and then maybe franchise tag him for a year, then move on once we are ready to.

Right we couldn't trade him with no plan behind it but I think it makes a lot of sense. If we sign somebody in March, then draft a corner or two through rounds 2-3, I could see us dishing him for a 4th. We could keep him another year hoping he can play all 16, hoping he can at least play better let alone at a high level again, but he's been a liability for two years. We couldn't franchise him the corner tag is at least 12 mil/yr rn, by then it'll probably be 13-14. Its tough man, I'll always be a Vontae fan but at the end of the day its Colts first individual players second and it might be best for us to move on with young, more productive corners

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Colts1324    320
On 2/17/2017 at 10:38 AM, indyagent17 said:

This!

 

The O line should be better and more experienced and a new addition would help too so let Gore and Turbin run the ball and draft a RB late in the draft or undrafted free agency 

I think it largely depends on who is available at the time we pick. This draft class of RB's is insane. We'd be dumb to pass on one of the good RB's in the third or fourth. I'm fine with Gore and Turbin IF there isn't a good RB where we pick. But a young fella with speed and fresher legs throughout the season will only help our team. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SteelCityColt    4,715

I think in this and the other topic Davis is getting somewhat of harsh time, fans really do have a short memory. 

 

It's easy, and lazy, to look at a player's performance in a very black & white way without exploring the full nuances of everything behind it. For one we don't work with these guys day in day out, we have no idea what's going on with them, remember they're people not counters on a board. It's why it's very frustrating every time the Jerry Hughes trade gets brought up. The man had made it clear he hated being in Indy for whatever reason, he was never going to perform here. 

 

Back on point, looking at the things we can see at fans, is it any wonder the secondary has slowly got worse over the last few seasons? Our pass rush has been dying a slow death since 2013:

 

2016 33 Sacks

2015 35 Sacks

2014 41 Sacks

2013 42 Sacks

 

That's from a starting point of having a,at best, mediocre pass rush. It's no coincidence that in 13 and 14 Davis was getting talked up as a top 5 corner and lot of metrics/grading backed that up. I don't care who you are, if you're a CB stuck on a island, and there's no pass rush, you're going to get burnt eventually. Throw in the injuries on top and I'm not at all surprised he's had a down two years. It might even play in to our favour if we extended him now. I do truly believe when healthy and with a semblance of a D around him he's a top 5 corner and right now he's not even in the top 10 in terms of money.  

 

To an extent it's a similar deal with TJ Green, the kid wasn't ready to play that many snaps but got forced into the lineup through injuries. You're than asking him to cover for extended periods of time, his biggest weakness and you wonder why again he got burnt on some plays. This is not an ideal situation for someone who's only played the position 3 years. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Finball    186

I don't think those sack numbers tell truth about how bad our pass rush was. It was tied for 10th worst in the league. We had more sacks than KC, Houston and LA. 1 Less than Philly, 2 less than NYG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AZColt11    934

I'm certainly no expert, but I have thoughts.

 

I don't think there is any way to fix this mess in one year.  Having said that, I have always believed that great defenses are built front to back.  I would start up front and work back to LB and then to DB's.  This is why I advocate for getting a guy like Barnett in the 1st.  Big guy, can play both run and pass effectively.  IDK if he will be available, but I think he would fill a definite need.  In round 2 I go LB.  Doesn't matter to me if it's ILB or OLB, we need both BADLY.  Take best available IMHO.  Maybe even in round 3 as well.    I look at DB's in the later rounds and UFA's.  I think we have at least one viable CB.  The other is a mystery.  I also think we have a couple of solid safety's although we don't know what will happen with Adams and how much he has left.  Perhaps next year we reverse this order?   Then there's always FA additions.   I think if done correctly this defense can get a LOT better in the next couple of years and have this team contending.  But I could be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BCoop    385
On 2/16/2017 at 8:54 AM, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

This is true. Also everyone thinks that drafting a rookie to fill a hole works and the hole goes away!! The harsh reality is few Rockies start, and most struggle when they do! But this draft is loaded with defensive talent lets hope they pick and evaluate well in the up coming draft!!

 

This is such an important point that I think a lot of fans lose sight of when discussing prospects in general. Does everyone remember how much talk there was about the Jacksonville defense heading into last season? People thought that draft would immediately catapult them into top 5 status. Those guys showed a lot of promise, but it takes time to develop even the best defensive prospects.

 

My hope is that we can address Edge and CB in FA. My top priority would be Ingram and Dre Kirkpatrick. If Cincy decides they are going to pay up for Zeitler, I'm guessing Kirkpatrick hits the open market. Those signings would then give Ballard more flexibility in the draft and also take pressure off any OLB/CB we take in the early rounds. If you've got Ingram and a CB like Kirkpatrick on the roster, it allows the rookies to grow behind them for a year or two without being thrown to the wolves immediately.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
colt18    55

We better not * keep Gore and Turbin as our main backs. I liked what I saw from each but we need some young blood in the back field.

 

 

We need to draft LB/DT/CB and then fill in RB/OL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.