[Speculation] Jack Doyle to test free agency (Merged)

[Carlos Danger]

I still think he comes back to Indy... I don't think other teams are going to value him like we do. 

 

He has very good hands, but would have to build a rapport with another QB and another OC that might not use him as well/extensively as Chud did. I think teams are looking for better blockers out of their in-line TEs and better speed from their receiving guys. Doyle is a good security blanket for us, but I think other teams will take pause before signing a guy that they might have a hard time finding a role for. 

 

I won't cry if we lose him, but my gut says he's a Colt next season, which would make me happy (if his contract is reasonable).

[crazycolt1]

27 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I hope we're not counting on getting a "home town discount" from Doyle,  because it sounds like he's not willing to give us one.

 

But just because he's going to test the market,  doesn't mean we won't bring him back.   We might have simply asked his agent to contact us with his best offer before actually signing that deal to see if we'd beat it?    

 

But if we lose Doyle,  count me as one who doesn't think that it's no big deal as so many in this thread have stated.      We got Doyle as an unsigned free agent.     That's a win for the Colts.    To have to buy someone else in FA or use a draft pick to replace him is a lose for the Colts.       

 

Luck loves throwing to him.    Luck looks for Doyle all over the field, and on big downs.    That doesn't happen with everyone.     The two have chemistry and trust and that's important.     It's not as easy to replace someone like that.     It's not just a matter of replacing him with someone else.  

 

If fans here want to get back to the playoffs THIS YEAR,  then re-signing Jack Doyle is a small, but important piece of the puzzle.    I hope this ends well for both sides......

 

Couldn't have said it any better than this.

[csmopar]

39 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think the exclusive tag gives him too much money.  Maybe the transition tag but I think that would guarantee him too much as well. 

Transition tag, that's the one I was thinking of

[zibby43]

1 hour ago, bravo4460 said:

Honesty would rather have Doyle than Allen..... 

 

Doyle is a better player overall and his blocking his very underrated.

 

Allen had one really good game last year where he scored 3 TD's I believe. Good stat booster game for him.

 

Allen isn't bad when completely healthy but if I had to choose Doyle or Allen I would choose Doyle. We can really pay both crazy amount of $$$ so if we could trade Allen for a decent pick or defensive player and keep Doyle I would be pretty happy.

 

Blocking is used very generally and loosely around here, especially with respect to tight ends.

 

Doyle is not a good inline blocker.  Allen is much better than Doyle in this respect.

 

Doyle is an adequate blocker when used in more of an H-Back.  In this role, he executes lead blocks, wham blocks, etc.  But whenever you just line Doyle up inline next to a tackle, he often gets absolutely abused.

 

When evaluating TE blocking abilities, it is absolutely critical to consider how the TEs are being used.

 

A TE that can block inline, like Allen, is much more valuable than people think.

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Ok he had a good year last year aside from 2016 season though he didn't do much this just shows me he is all about the money and if that's the case don't let the door hit him in the butt on the way out.

 

Yeah what a jerk trying to cash in on the one opportunity he'll have to set himself and his family up for life financially.  At least players like that are the minority in the NFL.

 

[Jason_]

55 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

If we don't resign him were going to suck at tight end.  

 

Good lord stop being a diva. We havent had free agency nor the draft yet. 

[Jason_]

53 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

But if we lose Doyle,  count me as one who doesn't think that it's no big deal as so many in this thread have stated.      We got Doyle as an unsigned free agent.     That's a win for the Colts.    To have to buy someone else in FA or use a draft pick to replace him is a lose for the Colts.       

 

 

 

But, if the colts do lose out on Doyle its because some other team gave him a pretty big payday. If that happens then that former UDFA becomes a pretty big factor in terms of a compensatory pick next year, which is a win for the colts. 

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't bring him back. I'd like to have him back. But if he does sign elsewhere we still come out ahead.

[crazycolt1]

6 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

But, if the colts do lose out on Doyle its because some other team gave him a pretty big payday. If that happens then that former UDFA becomes a pretty big factor in terms of a compensatory pick next year, which is a win for the colts. 

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't bring him back. I'd like to have him back. But if he does sign elsewhere we still come out ahead.

Finding a comp pick with the talent of Doyle is not that easy.

Doyle has become exactly what the Colts envisioned in him and have taken the time to develop him.

Coming out ahead is a stretch IMO.

[Smoke317]

Someone posted a very intriguing stat. Can't remember who it was but it basically said that Doyle had the highest reception rate of any "receiver" in the league who had a minimum amount of targets (I believe it was 100).  But it also said that the distance of those targets was BY FAR the lowest in the league. Like maybe 4 yards or something. 

 

Now I love Doyle. Much more than I do Allen. But is Jack really as good as we think or is he just a product of easy targets and not as many difficult big play targets???  What you guys think?

[NagelHausForge]

Doyle produces.  In a time when the Colts need to really focus on building their D I don't think it would be smart to let the number 2 offensive producer on the team walk...

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, Jason_S said:

 

Yeah what a jerk trying to cash in on the one opportunity he'll have to set himself and his family up for life financially.  At least players like that are the minority in the NFL.

 

Lets be honest he has had one good year in the nfl that doesn't get him a 6 year deal worth 80 million dollars he is lookin at ending up on a team that is worst than us because if you look all the really bad teams have a lot of salary cap space I would offer no more than 4 years 24 million if he don't take that I'm walking he's not worth more than that I'm sorry but one good season doesn't mean that you need to pay him a 40-50 million dollar contract.

[crazycolt1]

9 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Lets be honest he has had one good year in the nfl that doesn't get him a 6 year deal worth 80 million dollars he is lookin at ending up on a team that is worst than us because if you look all the really bad teams have a lot of salary cap space I would offer no more than 4 years 24 million if he don't take that I'm walking he's not worth more than that I'm sorry but one good season doesn't mean that you need to pay him a 40-50 million dollar contract.

Just out of curiosity where have you heard Doyle is asking for 6 years at 80 million?

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Lets be honest he has had one good year in the nfl that doesn't get him a 6 year deal worth 80 million dollars he is lookin at ending up on a team that is worst than us because if you look all the really bad teams have a lot of salary cap space I would offer no more than 4 years 24 million if he don't take that I'm walking he's not worth more than that I'm sorry but one good season doesn't mean that you need to pay him a 40-50 million dollar contract.

 

We may not be meeting his asking price --- yet --- but the fact that he hasn't signed doesn't mean we're not close.

 

So, for example,   we may be offering 4/24 as you hoped for.    By the way,  that's roughly my number too.

 

But Doyle may want 5 years....    so 5/30.       Just one more year.    He may want to go on to the FA market just to see if he can get one more year.      And perhaps we'll meet his price if he comes to us in 10 days and says he's been offered 5/30 and what will the Colts do?

 

I suspect we'd offer that.    We reportedly matched what Chicago offered Freeman.    Of course,  that was Grigson, so who knows now?

 

All I'm saying is just because we don't have a deal,  doesn't mean the two sides are necessarily far apart.

 

Just thinking out loud......

 

[BOTT]

3 hours ago, Hoosiernsavga said:

We can all say that Allen's skill set could be better or ceiling is higher etc. But truth is I wouldn't trade Jack Doyle for five Dwayne Allen's. Doyle is a better blocking TE. And Doyle's hands are way better. Allen may be the better athlete if that's what you mean by superior. But Doyle has been the better player. And more importantly Doyle is not near as injured prone as Allen. 

Allen isn't a better athlete 

[dw49]

11 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Just out of curiosity where have you heard Doyle is asking for 6 years at 80 million?

 

I think it came from the same place when your cell makes a call on it's own ?

[Jason_]

37 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Lets be honest he has had one good year in the nfl that doesn't get him a 6 year deal worth 80 million dollars he is lookin at ending up on a team that is worst than us because if you look all the really bad teams have a lot of salary cap space I would offer no more than 4 years 24 million if he don't take that I'm walking he's not worth more than that I'm sorry but one good season doesn't mean that you need to pay him a 40-50 million dollar contract.

 

I agree with pretty much all of that but I dont begrudge doyle trying to find the best offer that he can. Most players that come into the league as UDFAs never get the chance that doyle is getting.  He likely never anticpipated the day would actually come when he would be considered a hot commodity in FA.

[azcolt]

4 hours ago, CR91 said:

not a big loss. swoope showed flashes last year. we just need allen to stay healthy

Allen is a stiff.

[GoColts8818]

Can't blame a guy who was undrafted and coming off a career year to try to get the most money he can.

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Ok he had a good year last year aside from 2016 season though he didn't do much this just shows me he is all about the money and if that's the case don't let the door hit him in the butt on the way out.

 

 

I hate to break it to you,  but all of your favorite players --- whoever they are --- are also all about the money.   Did you see Andrew Luck give the Colts a discount?      Nope.      TY Hilton?     Nope.    Castanzo?     Nope.     Did Freeney or Mathis?     Not really.    Even Sainted Peyton Manning got paid big time.      It's the way of the world.

 

When you have only a few years to cash in then it's important to be about the money.     Because once football is done,  it's back to the real world.       Not everyone gets a big payday.     And not all the paydays last the life of the contract.      I'm sure you've noticed all the players who got cut before their contract ran out.     That's the team taking care of its business.     So the players do it too.

 

Let this play out.     You might be pleasantly surprised.     Or not.   But that's life in the NFL.

 

[Bluefire4]

I'd rather have Doyle leave than overpay him. We have too many other issues to worry about.

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Can't blame a guy who was undrafted and coming off a career year to try to get the most money he can.

Exactly. Jack has been in the league for 4 years and has worked as hard as any other player has getting himself better. 

Just like all players in the NFL all it takes is one injury to end his career so him looking out for his future is no different than any other player.

I hope the Colts and him can get something worked out.

[jameszeigler834]

10 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Just out of curiosity where have you heard Doyle is asking for 6 years at 80 million?

In reality not being serious but either way he needs to back up last year before he gets a big deal like 5 years 40-50 million.

[Jdubu]

11 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Someone posted a very intriguing stat. Can't remember who it was but it basically said that Doyle had the highest reception rate of any "receiver" in the league who had a minimum amount of targets (I believe it was 100).  But it also said that the distance of those targets was BY FAR the lowest in the league. Like maybe 4 yards or something. 

 

Now I love Doyle. Much more than I do Allen. But is Jack really as good as we think or is he just a product of easy targets and not as many difficult big play targets???  What you guys think?

He may have low yard catches but the point is he catches everything he is thrown and Luck has his trust that if he needs 4 yards or 10, he is going to catch the ball if he throws it to him in the correct spot. If it's Allen and Doyle and 4 yard throw either seals the game or moves the chains on 4th and 4 on a desperate attempt, which guy would you want to make that catch, Allen (run before catch) or Doyle (catch then run)? 

[Jdubu]

10 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Lets be honest he has had one good year in the nfl that doesn't get him a 6 year deal worth 80 million dollars he is lookin at ending up on a team that is worst than us because if you look all the really bad teams have a lot of salary cap space I would offer no more than 4 years 24 million if he don't take that I'm walking he's not worth more than that I'm sorry but one good season doesn't mean that you need to pay him a 40-50 million dollar contract.

NOBODY is giving Jack Doyle 80 million dollars and it isn't even close. Your 24 million is going to be way closer although he may see 5/30-35 if someone values a high % pass catcher in the 3-10 yard pass catch rate or will the league keep overvaluing the TE who has the speed to open up the deeper pass attempts but has a less% of pass catch rate? That's what it will boil down to on Doyle's FA attraction. 

[Jdubu]

20 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

In reality not being serious but either way he needs to back up last year before he gets a big deal like 5 years 40-50 million.

If Doyle is offered 8/yr you shake his hand and thank him for his service. You'll also see a GM change on that new team shortly because that would be an unwarranted amount. You have offered up hyperbole in 2 separate posts here now for Doyle. His contract is going to be closer to 5 than it will be towards 8. I suppose we will see who is right soon. For Doyle's sake, I hope he gets 8, for the Colts sake, I hope it's 5. I hope he stays but I have zero doubts that we will absolutely  move on if he wants more than 6

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I hope we retain Doyle, but not for a lot of money. I'm always be bit hesitant when a player has a breakout year the same year they hit free agency. Could they be overachieving? Maybe. I do think Doyle is solid though and we need someone who can catch those short yardage dink and dunk plays, even if our OC has an issue with using them enough. 

[jbaron04]

Thanks for some good years but Doyle can go if it comes down to money 

[jbaron04]

31 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

If Doyle is offered 8/yr you shake his hand and thank him for his service. You'll also see a GM change on that new team shortly because that would be an unwarranted amount. You have offered up hyperbole in 2 separate posts here now for Doyle. His contract is going to be closer to 5 than it will be towards 8. I suppose we will see who is right soon. For Doyle's sake, I hope he gets 8, for the Colts sake, I hope it's 5. I hope he stays but I have zero doubts that we will absolutely  move on if he wants more than 6

Yup can't have guy making that much when we have holes all over 

[aaron11]

i would hate to lose our second best receiver becasue we are paying allen too much already

 

doyle is better than moncrief, dorestt, or allen

[Steamboat_Shaun]

16 hours ago, theanarchist said:

Well, I wont say elite but he IS a great blocker for a TE. That's my opinion. Im not making him out to be something he isn't either but you seem to want to minimize his skill and value to the team. Doyle is a very underrated player and I hope we keep him.

 

Not minimizing, just being realistic about what he brings to the table vs other needs that can be met with the money we save by not signing him. Just to put it in perspective, the Pats are letting D'onta Hightower walk in FA, Ravens are letting Williams walk, and KC decided not to tag Poe. Meanwhile, we're worried about Jack Doyle? The reality is any of those 3 players would likely help the Colts much more than Doyle would, Williams and Hightower in particular would help solidify and upgrade desperate positions of need.

[Jdubu]

2 hours ago, Mr Clueless said:

I hope we retain Doyle, but not for a lot of money. I'm always be bit hesitant when a player has a breakout year the same year they hit free agency. Could they be overachieving? Maybe. I do think Doyle is solid though and we need someone who can catch those short yardage dink and dunk plays, even if our OC has an issue with using them enough. 

If you look at his year before, he was on his way then but didn't have the QB to get him the ball and he was behind Allen and Fleener. I liked what little I seen out of Doyle in 2015 to make me not want to keep Allen and let him get his money elsewhere and take the comp pick for him as well. Doyle is going to just be that workhorse type of dependable guy you want. I do not feel he upped his game in a contract year, he just got a full year of exposure. 

[DougDew]

13 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Someone posted a very intriguing stat. Can't remember who it was but it basically said that Doyle had the highest reception rate of any "receiver" in the league who had a minimum amount of targets (I believe it was 100).  But it also said that the distance of those targets was BY FAR the lowest in the league. Like maybe 4 yards or something. 

 

Now I love Doyle. Much more than I do Allen. But is Jack really as good as we think or is he just a product of easy targets and not as many difficult big play targets???  What you guys think?

I think that stat shows exactly what a TE is supposed to be used for.   A short yardage sure thing.

 

And BTW, the NFL is throwing more short patterns as a tendency, so the fact that he ranks #1 doesn't mean that he's necessarily benefiting from short passes more than other receivers.  Look at Edleman, for example.

[Jdubu]

37 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Not minimizing, just being realistic about what he brings to the table vs other needs that can be met with the money we save by not signing him. Just to put it in perspective, the Pats are letting D'onta Hightower walk in FA, Ravens are letting Williams walk, and KC decided not to tag Poe. Meanwhile, we're worried about Jack Doyle? The reality is any of those 3 players would likely help the Colts much more than Doyle would, Williams and Hightower in particular would help solidify and upgrade desperate positions of need.

Well we are fans so yep, we worry about our guys going on to make an impact elsewhere and want our likable and productive guys. I guarantee you other team fans are frustrated and concerned that they too may lose a favorite. You think if Poe ends up in Denver or Raiders that they won't be upset? Heck yes they will and they will even question their GM and his sanity. GM's have to weigh the teams vision and cash with signings so fans and GM's are going to think and act differently. It's ok. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Just now, Jdubu said:

Well we are fans so yep, we worry about our guys going on to make an impact elsewhere and want our likable and productive guys. I guarantee you other team fans are frustrated and concerned that they too may lose a favorite. You think if Poe ends up in Denver or Raiders that they won't be upset? Heck yes they will and they will even question their GM and his sanity. GM's have to weigh the teams vision and cash with signings so fans and GM's are going to think and act differently. It's ok. 

 

Naturally that would be the case, especially considering that it'd be within the division. But this isn't like when we lost Antoine Bethea or Dwight Freeney, and some people are acting like it is.

 

And don't get me wrong, Jack Doyle is a very likable player, and I still have my hopes that he and the Colts can come to terms on a reasonable deal, but I'm not upset at all if that doesn't happen. But if he ends up on the Titans or the Texans and turns into the next Travis Kelce, I'd admittedly be singing a different tune.

[Smoke317]

2 hours ago, Jdubu said:

He may have low yard catches but the point is he catches everything he is thrown and Luck has his trust that if he needs 4 yards or 10, he is going to catch the ball if he throws it to him in the correct spot. If it's Allen and Doyle and 4 yard throw either seals the game or moves the chains on 4th and 4 on a desperate attempt, which guy would you want to make that catch, Allen (run before catch) or Doyle (catch then run)? 

There's no doubt I want Doyle making that catch. I don't trust Allen at all. Not on 4th down or 1st down. His hands are trash. And trust me, I'm not knocking Doyle. I want to keep him. Especially over Allen. Just asking if we're loving Doyle because he's a local success story and we're comparing his work to the unreliable Allen?

 

If Doyle can go break the bank somewhere, I'll be happy for him and as a local kid I want nothing less than that for him. I just don't want us to overpay. 

[Smoke317]

31 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think that stat shows exactly what a TE is supposed to be used for.   A short yardage sure thing.

 

And BTW, the NFL is throwing more short patterns as a tendency, so the fact that he ranks #1 doesn't mean that he's necessarily benefiting from short passes more than other receivers.  Look at Edleman, for example.

Very true. His dependability and reliability can't be questioned. Especially compared to our other options.  It's just that the aforementioned stat had Doyle way below anybody else. So it's almost like "extreme" short passes. But then again, that may be factoring in when he wasn't as featured an option and was catching more balls out of the backfield (spider 2 y banana). 

 

I like Doyle. Much better than Allen. He's got my trust. I just don't want to overpay for him. If this Indy kid can go get big money elsewhere to set his family up for life, I won't hold any ill will toward him. In fact I want him to get all he can.

 

Damn shame we're stuck with Allen, who's probably the better athlete and blocker but I always end up holding my breath in dread when the ball is thrown his way.  With Doyle, I know it's gonna be caught. 

[Luck 4 president]

Is there any chance we could trade Dwayne Allen for a 3rd or 4th round pick and keep Doyle?

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

Very true. His dependability and reliability can't be questioned. Especially compared to our other options.  It's just that the aforementioned stat had Doyle way below anybody else. So it's almost like "extreme" short passes. But then again, that may be factoring in when he wasn't as featured an option and was catching more balls out of the backfield (spider 2 y banana). 

 

I like Doyle. Much better than Allen. He's got my trust. I just don't want to overpay for him. If this Indy kid can go get big money elsewhere to set his family up for life, I won't hold any ill will toward him. In fact I want him to get all he can.

 

Damn shame we're stuck with Allen, who's probably the better athlete and blocker but I always end up holding my breath in dread when the ball is thrown his way.  With Doyle, I know it's gonna be caught. 

For me its not so much a matter of like, its a matter of management of the cap.  Like any personnel decision, if you can get the same production for less money you take that option.   I just wish that somebody who was getting paid to make that decision actually made that decision last spring instead of making it now...if it was even an option. 

[bap1331]

Pay the man.

 

After seeing what the patriots do without paying the man. Nope i prefer to move on then have a couple of players suck up the cap space. Every team in the NFL needs to follow to get these agents from being so greedy.

 

Seeing what the steelers did to extend a wr contract with Antonio brown really shows why the patriots are always contenders...

 

Sent from my SM-G935T *

 

 

[jvan1973]

Tight ends always flourish in Chuds system.   He is replaceable.  Good luck to him.   He deserves to get paid