[Speculation] Jack Doyle to test free agency (Merged)

[PrincetonTiger]

Bring him back CB

[MTC]

"expects" is more of a prediction than an actual report. Irrelevant news, IMO.

[COLTS449]

Just now, #12. said:

I won't dispute it.  

 

Of course there were 303 other legitimate reasons to fire Grigson. 

 

Actually it was 393. I kept count of the losers mistakes.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, MTC said:

"expects" is more of a prediction than an actual report. Irrelevant news, IMO.

So true

[riftastic28]

He's ok I didn't see anything special from him 

[DarkHorse]

We need to resign him we don't need any more holes but at a decent price

[CS5959]

Doyle is a must sign, and I don't see any way the Colts let him sign with anyone else unless they really screw it up. He is a major part of the colts offense, they use him at fullback, bring him in motion to block and he always sticks his nose in there and does that dirty work, it is really hard to find do it all players like him who can also line up as a traditional tight end. He is a very hard nosed football player, and durable which is huge considering our other big money tight end. I would rather let Allen walk before Doyle. I was big on him two years ago and was happy to see them not pay Fleener too knowing we wouldn't miss a beat with Doyle. In addition, somewhat off topic I see Mathias Farley as the same type, I think he turns into a very solid player for us on the other side of the ball, just like I thought Doyle would a coue years ago.

[AZColt11]

I think he'll be here.  I think he's just using it as a gauge to see what he's worth.

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, AZColt11 said:

I think he'll be here.  I think he's just using it as a gauge to see what he's worth.

What is he using? A misquoted Indy Star article?

[GoColts8818]

Not shocking and I wouldn't be shocked if he left.  Not because he's a bad player but because the Colts hired a new GM and new GMs bring in their own talent.  Two years into Grigson the Colts had six players on the roster the pre-dated him. That's it. 

 

Of course Doyle is talented so Ballad might bring him back like Grigson did Wayne and Mathis but I wouldn't be shocked if Doyle was playing some place else next year.

[Buck Showalter]

30 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Not shocking and I wouldn't be shocked if he left.  Not because he's a bad player but because the Colts hired a new GM and new GMs bring in their own talent.  Two years into Grigson the Colts had six players on the roster the pre-dated him. That's it. 

 

Of course Doyle is talented so Ballad might bring him back like Grigson did Wayne and Mathis but I wouldn't be shocked if Doyle was playing some place else next year.

True, but Ballard may place a slightly higher value on consistency, which may not be a bad thing.

While I fully expect Ballard to do some house cleaning, bringing back some of the players/elements that were working or at least were an asset, probably wouldn't be a horrible idea either...

I'm definitely team Doyle...

 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Nope.  Dwayne Allen was a terrible signing, it was at the time, and it was obvious last year Doyle could play.  

 

I loved it when I said last year that Allen had catching problems, then a bunch of know nothing stats guys start throwing numbers and actually using stats to try to show DA could catch.  After this season, everybody knows he can't.

 

C'mon, you know this forum.  For some reason D Allen has a following that goes beyond reason, and I don't think it has to do with football.

 

Irsay can't come out and say that Grigson screwed up the TE signings, and he's not going to throw DA under the bus. Neither will the media.

 

 

 

Doug.....

 

Even if I agreed with you that signing Dwayne Allen was a terrible signing (the coaches preferred him over Fleener and asked that he brought back, reported here on this website)   and even if I agreed that not signing Jack Doyle a year ago was a mistake,    I still wouldn't agree that this is THE reason that Ryan Grigson got fired.

 

Because if this was upset Irsay the most,  then he would've fired him the day after the season ended, if not sooner.     Instead he waited nearly 3 weeks to fire Grigson.    Honestly, if Irsay was pressed for a list of reasons to fire Grigson,  I'm not sure the Allen/Doyle signings would make the top-10.      Seriously.

You've got a unique viewpoint on this....    and while I like unique, this is not one we see eye to eye on....   and that's OK....

 

 

[Jackie Daytona]

11 hours ago, theanarchist said:

This sucks. I think Doyle is a must keep. He can block and he has emerged as a good target in the passing game.

35 catches, 406 yds, 11.6 avg, 23 lg, 6 td's, 0 fumble, 0 sacks

59 catches, 584 yds.  9.9 avg, 24 long, 5 td's 0 fumble, 0 sacks

15 catches, 297 yds, 19.8 avg, 46 long, 1 td, 0 fumble, 0 sacks

 

Allen, Doyle, Swoope....... keep doyle if you can, but if someone gets stupid paying him, promote Swoope, hope he can block after a few ST years, and get a young guy to move in, hoping Allen stays healthy.... when DA isn't bitten by the injury bug, he's just as much an all around TE as Doyle, but with more big play ability.....I want Doyle back, but won't fret and can rationalize any decision they make, as long as the money saved if Doyle leaves, is best utilized, and not just left sitting......

3

[jbaron04]

13 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

"The Indianapolis Star expects..." is very different from what Chris Ballard actually decides.  Pay the man and keep him in Indy

In all honest the 5-6m a year it's gonna cost to keep him needs to go to def. 

[jbaron04]

I love Jack as a player but this is about what's best for the colts in the long run. 

We cant sign him since this is a luxury signing we have a te we committed to already. Andrew luck doesn't need more weapons except a running back we need to focus on giving him a def and oline. 

[jbaron04]

When you look at the decision to sign Doyle think is it about luck putting up 5k 40tds a year or making deep playoff runs with a chance at the Superbowl each yr. To me It's about winning Lombardi's we need to focus on getting luck a good/great def and great oline . Doyle is a luxury signing that we can't afford to make 

[aaron11]

15 hours ago, MPStack said:

I think someone will pay him D. Allen type money. If that does end up being the case, the Colts should let him walk. I can`t see two TE`s with contracts like Allen`s on the same team. 

let allen walk

 

the cap hit will be worth it to keep JD

[King Colt]

I hope he stays but perhaps a new offensive scheme will show up this coming season - too soon to tell. Let's see how they draft.

[braveheartcolt]

2 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

When you look at the decision to sign Doyle think is it about luck putting up 5k 40tds a year or making deep playoff runs with a chance at the Superbowl each yr. To me It's about winning Lombardi's we need to focus on getting luck a good/great def and great oline . Doyle is a luxury signing that we can't afford to make 

Tell us why we can't afford him again please? If he is a player the Colts think makes us better, I can see no financial reason not to, unless he is being ridiculously greedy.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, braveheartcolt said:

Tell us why we can't afford him again please? If he is a player the Colts think makes us better, I can see no financial reason not to, unless he is being ridiculously greedy.

I agree. I would re-sign him, same for Walden. Many don't want Walden back and he led us in Sacks. We cant just keep getting rid of our best players, keep doing that then we have no continuity. Doyle was our 3rd best player on Offense only behind Andrew and T.Y. IMO. We are way under the Salary Cap, no reason we cant re-sign Doyle. I trust him more than Allen.

[SteelCityColt]

I will say that it looks to be a very shallow FA pool this year as a whole and at 26 Doyle will be an attractive proposition compared to some of the older guys with more tread on the tyres. I think we end up letting him walk and he ends up getting a 3-4 years contract somewhere around $4.6-6 million a year. I won't even venture a guess on how much guaranteed. 

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/tight-end/

 

[braveheartcolt]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

I will say that it looks to be a very shallow FA pool this year as a whole and at 26 Doyle will be an attractive proposition compared to some of the older guys with more tread on the tyres. I think we end up letting him walk and he ends up getting a 3-4 years contract somewhere around $4.6-6 million a year. I won't even venture a guess on how much guaranteed. 

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/tight-end/

 

I think we will sign him. But I'm no Ryan Grigson.........

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, braveheartcolt said:

I think we will sign him. But I'm no Ryan Grigson.........

 

I'd love it if we could keep him, but it's hard to predict which way a incoming GM will jump. That and it would be a large amount to invest in the TE position on top of Allen's contract. Hernandez/Gronk they are not.....

 

.... in some ways that's probably a good thing.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

10 hours ago, MTC said:

"expects" is more of a prediction than an actual report. Irrelevant news, IMO.

I concur, pure speculation.

 

[Jdubu]

16 hours ago, chad72 said:

3 years $12 mil. Unless someone overpaid for $5 mil. a year

I'd be willing to give him a 5 year deal worth 20-25. Build in some structure that allows you to cut after 3 if he doesn't pan out like I think he will but pays him well if he does. Imho, he is worth more money than DA and it's not even close. I'd cut DA as soon as his cap cut becomes an advantage to the Colts family or trade him if he stays healthy for a period and a team will trade something of value at the time. 

[Jdubu]

14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Couple of points....

 

I just went to the IndyStar website and I didn't see anything that said Jack Doyle will test free agency.

 

But, even if he is,  it's expected.    He's a free agent.      Just because we haven't signed him yet,  doesn't mean we won't.      Last year the Colts signed Dwayne Allen on March 7th.     So, we've got 3 and a half weeks before that date.

 

I suspect what we have here is a difference of opinion on Doyle's value.   So the Colts are telling him to go test the market and see what offers he gets.    They'd then like the chance to beat it.       If we like the number we'll pay it.     If we don't,  we won't.  

 

I suspect we will pay what we have to.    And I suspect it will be around $6 Mill per over 4-5 years.    That's his market give or take.

 

 

If he needs 6 per year to stay, we have to move on from that deal. As much as I love Doyle, and I do love what he brings to the team, he isn't your high profile, team build around TE. 4-5 mil per season would be my top number I'd pay for Doyle. I do wish we would have let Allen go last season and signed Doyle to an extension at that time because I thought he was who we seen last season and I hate to see him go but you can't pay him 6/year. 

[riftastic28]

He's ok I didn't see anything special from him . See ya 

[riftastic28]

3 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

If he needs 6 per year to stay, we have to move on from that deal. As much as I love Doyle, and I do love what he brings to the team, he isn't your high profile, team build around TE. 4-5 mil per season would be my top number I'd pay for Doyle. I do wish we would have let Allen go last season and signed Doyle to an extension at that time because I thought he was who we seen last season and I hate to see him go but you can't pay him 6/year. 

I'd offer him 3 mill a year 

[SteelCityColt]

6 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

If he needs 6 per year to stay, we have to move on from that deal. As much as I love Doyle, and I do love what he brings to the team, he isn't your high profile, team build around TE. 4-5 mil per season would be my top number I'd pay for Doyle. I do wish we would have let Allen go last season and signed Doyle to an extension at that time because I thought he was who we seen last season and I hate to see him go but you can't pay him 6/year. 

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and the way it was framed last season was do we keep Allen or do we keep Fleener. The hope was that a fit again Allen could get back to player who showed a lot of promise as a rookie.

 

Remember too this last season really was Doyle's break out year, while he'd looked good in bursts previously this was the first season he was saw consistent snaps (partly due to Allen's inability to stay on the field of course and partly the departure of Fleener). 

 

As much as people like to dump on Allen (with some justification) he did finish with a better Avg and more TDs than Doyle with less targets/receptions. 

[jameszeigler834]

17 hours ago, SteelDragon said:

He'll be our best TE since Dallas Clark, IMO

If they let him go they are stupid.

[Jdubu]

14 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

3M in dead cap to basically save 2.9M. 

Not a huge hit to the cap, but then again not a substantial enough amount in savings to merit it. 

I think we can afford to keep them both for one year if we really want to. Becomes much more cap friendly to ditch Allen a year from now. 

This I can agree with, it's sound and reasonable logic. We can afford them both for the season if we honestly felt that Doyle is a must have and Allen could be planned into the future as a cut. I just don't think Doyle is worth more than 5/yr and if he is offered that, you probably have to let him go get that money elsewhere and work towards an Allen/Swoope TE tandem and start your search for another Doyle like project. 

 

 

[Defjamz26]

Misleading topic title.

 

But I think the solution is simple. Trade Allen and give Doyle that money. Doyle hasn't even hit his ceiling yet. I think he's proven himself. At this point I don't care if you only get a 5th for Allen if that's what it takes to keep Doyle. Doyle isn't Travis Kelce so it's not like we'd be letting a superstar walk away, but I think it's better for the Colts to keep him.

[riftastic28]

11 hours ago, #12. said:

I won't dispute it.  

 

Of course there were 303 other legitimate reasons to fire Grigson. 

Allen is better then Doyle 

[Jdubu]

14 minutes ago, riftastic28 said:

I'd offer him 3 mill a year 

If anyone gets him for 3 mil/yr they are a genius and stealing from him. I just don't see anything under 4/yr and it's likely going be around 5/yr. I'd do 5/yr but that's my ceiling. If he had more speed in him, maybe he gets that 7 but he doesn't therefore gen doesn't create those mismatch scenarios. He excels well at catching balls in his wingspan, finding open zones, fighting for balls in his area, catching TD's and he is a adequate blocker. Dallas Clark had the same traits mostly but he included speed to mismatch with lb'ers and some safeties up the seam. 

 

I hope ole we can get something done and keep Doyle but if you plan on keeping Allen beyond this season, you are going down the road we did with Peyton and putting too much cap space on offense and playing with a weak defense. It's time we allow Luck to have protection up front and make cheaper players look better, build a defense and use cap space on that side while drafting exceptional every year 

[oldunclemark]

22 minutes ago, riftastic28 said:

Allen is better then Doyle 

Its true.......when he's healthy, Allen is as good or better than Doyle....and we can add a rookie..

....Doyle must come back at the Colts price....we need to draft or pay for maybe 6 players on defense.

Tight end is our deepest position

[masterlock]

14 hours ago, runthepost said:

Someone will give him 3 years for 20mil or 4 for 26

Maybe, maybe not. Doyle had ONE good year. 584 yards and 5 TDs is good, but is that enough to base a $26M contract on? I think $3M/yr is reasonable.

[SteelCityColt]

7 minutes ago, masterlock said:

Maybe, maybe not. Doyle had ONE good year. 584 yards and 5 TDs is good, but is that enough to base a $26M contract on? I think $3M/yr is reasonable.

 

Production is not the be all and all of contract value, his relatively young age will factor in, as well as the thin FA market this year. There will be plenty of $$ to go around for not much talent.

[CR91]

Not surprised. I've said before Doyle would want top dollar 

[Jdubu]

6 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

35 catches, 406 yds, 11.6 avg, 23 lg, 6 td's, 0 fumble, 0 sacks

59 catches, 584 yds.  9.9 avg, 24 long, 5 td's 0 fumble, 0 sacks

15 catches, 297 yds, 19.8 avg, 46 long, 1 td, 0 fumble, 0 sacks

 

Allen, Doyle, Swoope....... keep doyle if you can, but if someone gets stupid paying him, promote Swoope, hope he can block after a few ST years, and get a young guy to move in, hoping Allen stays healthy.... when DA isn't bitten by the injury bug, he's just as much an all around TE as Doyle, but with more big play ability.....I want Doyle back, but won't fret and can rationalize any decision they make, as long as the money saved if Doyle leaves, is best utilized, and not just left sitting......

3

What I see in these stats are called an offensive game plan set up. You have TY and Moncreif and Dorsett as your deep play threats for chunk yardage and scoring from the deep end of the field. In Allen, you want to have some ability to use him in multiple ways and get blocking and large chunk plays from him but his health hasn't allowed him to be consistent and he drops some balls, whether they are some tough catches or mental lapses. In Doyle, you have the combination on a guy who can do several things well and excels in catching it, only lacks speed for deep large chunk plays. He is what they call the chain mover and very very dependable around the endzone. He isn't Gronk but he isn't a scrub. He will be missed in the offense if he leaves. Will it stunt the play options we currently have knowing the only other guy who consistently catches balls when we need them to is TY and is often schemed out of the play by smart defensive coordinators, is scary. Who left on this team is a guy you know he will find a zone and just get that needed first down? Is he deemed as important in our scheme as say an eddleman in New England or that certain guy in other teams schemes that just allow the offense to open up, even if he isn't the most talented guy at that position in the league? The question for Doyle in my opinion will be is he more valuable in the offensive team scheme than just simply as the best guy in this position around the league? If he is deemed that, he is easily going to get the 5+\yr from the Colts, if he isn't deemed that, the team is going to let him go and let someone pay him 5,6,7 million/yr because he isn't the top 5 and probably not too 10 TE in the league but he is the top TE in terms of dependability and production for our team and offensive scheme. 

[Jdubu]

1 hour ago, riftastic28 said:

Allen is better then Doyle 

That's your opinion but you're pretty wrong. Allen was better than Fleener in season 1 and that gave the team enough reason to hope someday he would live back up to the rookie year and stay healthy after re-signing him but he hasn't and I feel way more comfortable that Doyle stays and makes plays on the field than Allen staying on the field and making plays for an entire season.