Too hard on luck for not beating the pats?

[CR91]

Well with the Steelers about to become the latest victim of the pats dynasty, are we too hard on luck and pagano for not beating the pats?

[chad72]

It's the fact that we get the doors blown open by  the big boys like even the Steelers and the flavors of the year (Cowboys in 2014, Raiders this year till Carr went down and gave us the illusion of respectable). It's not just the Patriots.

 

Its the fact that we can beat good teams like Seahawks and Broncos and Packers and turn around and be unable to maintain the same high floor against the others when the personnel hasn't changed.

[CR91]

11 minutes ago, chad72 said:

It's the fact that we get the doors blown open by  the big boys like even the Steelers and the flavors of the year (Cowboys in 2014, Raiders this year till Carr went down and gave us the illusion of respectable). It's not just the Patriots.

 

Its the fact that we can beat good teams like Seahawks and Broncos and Packers and turn around and be unable to maintain the same high floor against the others when the personnel hasn't changed.

 

To be fair, luck has only played the Steelers once

[Coltsman1788]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

To be far, luck has only played the Steelers once

But that one time was as ugly as those hamburgler uni's Pittsburgh was sportin. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Need a defense to compete in playoff games. That simple. 

[snkdy]

It was never just us. They blow out everyone, except Baltimore, of course.

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

To be far, luck has only played the Steelers once

 

Same vs Seahawks, next year we'll play the Steelers and Seahawks. Hopefully we play Antonio Brown differently and can repeat our Seahawks performance from 2013.

 

I do think Luck is feeling the weight of having to do more and I'm hopeful we get him some defensive help. There's no question about that. However, when I see a TE against a pass rusher in weeks 2 and 16, it doesn't reflect well on either Pagano and his coaches and/or Luck, IMO.

[CR91]

6 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

But that one time was as ugly as those hamburgler uni's Pittsburgh was sportin. 

 

Yea, but we were one Hugh Thornton stepping on lucks shoe drive away from tying the game

[a06cc]

Will be cheering for Falcons. Glad stealers lost today!

[indyagent17]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Same vs Seahawks, next year we'll play the Steelers and Seahawks. Hopefully we play Antonio Brown differently and can repeat our Seahawks performance from 2013.

 

I do think Luck is feeling the weight of having to do more and I'm hopeful we get him some defensive help. There's no question about that. However, when I see a TE against a pass rusher in weeks 2 and 16, it doesn't reflect well on either Pagano and his coaches and/or Luck, IMO.

This is squarely on Pagano's shoulders he makes horrible in game modifications. The game is pretty simple just take away their best player like Belichick does. But we don't seem to get that. Very frustrating

[Coltsman1788]

Pats are just on another level from the rest of the AFC right now.  Luck or anyone else will be hard pressed to beat them.  We just need to weather the storm and wait for Brady's retirement for our chance. 

[AZColt11]

I dont think it's all on Luck.  But until his team is able to beat the Steelers or Pats there will be questions.  Perhaps what the Colts just did in their front office is a step in the right direction?

[chad72]

7 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Pats are just on another level from the rest of the AFC right now.  Luck or anyone else will be hard pressed to beat them.  We just need to weather the storm and wait for Brady's retirement for our chance. 

 

Just like Peyton learned to slay the dragon, Pagano and Luck will need to do the same vs the Patriots and Steelers. Can't wait on Brady or Big Ben to retire, teams like the Raiders and Chiefs have already stockpiled enough talent to beat us on most days, and the style of D the Chiefs play with man CBs is what it takes to beat the Patriots along with very good QB play (like Broncos last year), not the zone crap the steelers played.

 

Have to learn to be able to go toe-to-toe for 60 minutes against those teams giving ourselves a chance first, not just 1 or 2 good quarters.

[IinD]

No way. 

 

Brady would lose by 30 if we switched qbs for the game.

 

I don't blame Luck to much for not beating ne. They're flat out better in almost every category.

 

NE makes fools of literally everyone. They win with backup qbs. We know Indy's reputation when our qb goes down.

[AZColt11]

1 minute ago, IinD said:

No way. 

 

Brady would lose by 30 if we switched qbs for the game.

 

I don't blame Luck to much for not beating ne. They're flat out better in almost every category.

 

NE makes fools of literally everyone. They win with backup qbs. We know Indy's reputation when our qb goes down.

Yeah I agree.  Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying Brady sucks, but people act like he's the ONLY guy who could do what he's doing there, and that just hasn't proven to be the case. All I'm sayin.

Did you know, since the current playoff system expanded to 6 teams per conference in 1978, only two teams have missed the playoffs after winning 11 regular season games. One was the 1985 Denver Broncos. The other? The 2008 New England Patriots. If you will recall, that was the season Brady tore his ACL in week 1 and Matt Cassel , who hadn't played in years, was able to get NE to 11 wins, yet they missed out on the playoffs becoming only the 2nd team to have that happen in 33 years. It has not happened since. By comparison, teams have won 10 games and missed the playoffs 21 times in that same span. Clearly, 11 and no playoffs is rare. And clearly, Brady is living a very charmed life.  I can't think of too many people that wouldn't trade places with that guy.

[Luck is Good]

9 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Pats are just on another level from the rest of the AFC right now.  Luck or anyone else will be hard pressed to beat them.  We just need to weather the storm and wait for Brady's retirement for our chance. 

Agreed man. This is gonna be their 7th SB in 16 years. Holy crap. And 11 of those years they made it to at least the conference championship game. That's insane

[IinD]

Just now, AZColt11 said:

Yeah I agree.  Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying Brady sucks, but people act like he's the ONLY guy who could do what he's doing there, and that just hasn't proven to be the case. All I'm sayin.

Did you know, since the current playoff system expanded to 6 teams per conference in 1978, only two teams have missed the playoffs after winning 11 regular season games. One was the 1985 Denver Broncos. The other? The 2008 New England Patriots. If you will recall, that was the season Brady tore his ACL in week 1 and Matt Cassel , who hadn't played in years, was able to get NE to 11 wins, yet they missed out on the playoffs becoming only the 2nd team to have that happen in 33 years. It has not happened since. By comparison, teams have won 10 games and missed the playoffs 21 times in that same span. Clearly, 11 and no playoffs is rare. And clearly, Brady is living a very charmed life.  I can't think of too many people that wouldn't trade places with that guy.

Agreed.

 

Brady is obviously a HOF'r simply from his results, but he could not have landed in a more 'cush' position/team.

 

Almost any intelligent young QB could have won a SB or two with Bill's system all these years. 

[AZColt11]

Just now, IinD said:

Agreed.

 

Brady is obviously a HOF'r simply from his results, but he could not have landed in a more 'cush' position/team.

 

Almost any intelligent young QB could have won a SB or two with Bill's system all these years. 

Yeah and can you imagine what would have happened, how it would have changed the whole course of Brady's persona, had Cassel's team made the playoffs and had success?  What if they would have won the Superbowl that year?  What would people say then?  Unfortunately, we will never know because of a rarity that occurred.  Again, Brady is living a charmed existence.  You could not devise a script any better than his life really.

[Coltsman1788]

20 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Just like Peyton learned to slay the dragon, Pagano and Luck will need to do the same vs the Patriots and Steelers. Can't wait on Brady or Big Ben to retire, teams like the Raiders and Chiefs have already stockpiled enough talent to beat us on most days, and the style of D the Chiefs play with man CBs is what it takes to beat the Patriots along with very good QB play (like Broncos last year), not the zone crap the steelers played.

 

Have to learn to be able to go toe-to-toe for 60 minutes against those teams giving ourselves a chance first, not just 1 or 2 good quarters.

I like this in theory.  Not too confident in the current Colts ability to execute on it however.  Maybe the upcoming changes will help improve things and generate better results against our two nemesis. We will see. Right now we are a long ways away from what we need to be.

[IinD]

Just now, AZColt11 said:

Yeah and can you imagine what would have happened, how it would have changed the whole course of Brady's persona, had Cassel's team made the playoffs and had success?  What if they would have won the Superbowl that year?  What would people say then?  Unfortunately, we will never know because of a rarity that occurred.  Again, Brady is living a charmed existence.  You could not devise a script any better than his life really.

Absolutely.

 

He was literally one of those qbs that get drafted every year and are out of the league in a few years. He happened to get put in when Bledsoe went down and the rest is history.

 

Guys drafted as late as him usually have 4-5 year careers max and their career stat line is something like 22-48 for 225 yds 1 td and 2 ints.

 

He was literally blessed in many ways.

[NewColtsFan]

24 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

This is squarely on Pagano's shoulders he makes horrible in game modifications. The game is pretty simple just take away their best player like Belichick does. But we don't seem to get that. Very frustrating

 

Who else does.

 

You write "The game is pretty simple"     Then why don't the other 30 head coaches do a good job of it?

 

Things are never as simple as a fan thinks they are.     Never.

 

[AZColt11]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Who else does.

 

You write "The game is pretty simple"     Then why don't the other 30 head coaches do a good job of it?

 

Things are never as simple as a fan thinks they are.     Never.

 

Yeah I think Belichik puts in as much or more work than anybody, and on top of that, he is smart.  Good combo to have.  He is, however, as dry as paper but paper has more personality.  Fortunately for him, personality is not a prerequisite for NFL HC success.

[Tsarquise]

I don't think many are down on Luck for not beating the Patriots; Its not about Luck. I think more people are down on the coaching and drafting when it come to beating the Pats.We need a defense and especially a pass rush.

 

I always hear people criticize Grigson for not building an O line, but I feel the lack of development of a pass rush is a more warranted criticism. 

[IinD]

Just now, Tsarquise said:

I don't think many are down on Luck for not beating the Patriots; Its not about Luck. I think more people are down on the coaching and drafting when it come to beating the Pats.We need a defense and especially a pass rush.

 

I always hear people criticize Grigson for not building an O line, but I feel the lack of development of a pass rush is a more warranted criticism. 

Agreed on the Grigs and his D part.

 

Walden saved us this season. Him playing out of his mind made it a little respectable, but if he hadn't had a solid year we would have had nothing in the pass rush category...literally.

[Tsarquise]

14 minutes ago, IinD said:

Agreed on the Grigs and his D part.

 

Walden saved us this season. Him playing out of his mind made it a little respectable, but if he hadn't had a solid year we would have had nothing in the pass rush category...literally.

Yeah, I can't even imagine what it would be like if Walden went down. Scary!! Lol

[coltsfeva]

8 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Pats are just on another level from the rest of the AFC right now.  Luck or anyone else will be hard pressed to beat them.  We just need to weather the storm and wait for Brady's retirement for our chance. 

Denver and the Giants displayed a blueprint for beating the Pats: Having a great pass rush, secondary, solid tackling and stopping the run effectively. Easier said than done but not impossible. Of course, the offense has to be efficient; the more multi-faceted, the better. Keep Brady on the bench with long drives. Keep mistakes and penalties to a minimum. As much as I hate the Pats, you have to give them credit.  But their day will come. 

[P-Money]

Pass rush is key!  Brady can't take a hit.  Secondly, stay the hell away from zone defense.  Bill and Josh are masters at getting their receivers to find holes in your zone.  Brady just has to sit back and wait for them to be wide open.  Getting in his face with pressure and getting the ball out faster really messes up his comfort zone. If the Texans had a decent offense they'd beat the Pats for sure and could be headed to the Super Bowl.  

[ztboiler]

The real takeaway from the Pats/Steelers game should be how beating the Steelers begins with doubling AB and limiting the run game.  

 

We simply have to do a better job of thinking our way through the trade-offs of match-up football gameplanning.

 

Once we can do that....then we can entertain thoughts of being within 2 touchdowns of the Pats....which everyone forgets that we absolutely were when we had the ball down 29-22 in the 2014 playoffs (2013 season) and a chance to pull even.

 

We overcame silly mistakes on offense and limited the Pats offense in the 2nd and 3rd Q's that day before the run game D gave way to Blount.  Easy to forget that we were much closer to beating the Pats at home in the playoffs that year, on a rain-soaked day to boot, than even the vaunted Steelers were this year....

 

All is not lost, and we have a ways to go to even get our D back to the level that Manusky had us in 2013....but let's remember that Pagano is a coach that you can win with.

[PeterBowman]

1 hour ago, P-Money said:

Pass rush is key!  Brady can't take a hit.  Secondly, stay the hell away from zone defense.  Bill and Josh are masters at getting their receivers to find holes in your zone.  Brady just has to sit back and wait for them to be wide open.  Getting in his face with pressure and getting the ball out faster really messes up his comfort zone. If the Texans had a decent offense they'd beat the Pats for sure and could be headed to the Super Bowl.  

which is why Dante Scarnecchia is their true MVP....he retires last year and their O line looks average and Brady didn't have all day to scan the field.  He returns and the Great Wall of Brady returns. I've never seen an offense where the wr's are so consistently wide open either.

[chad72]

41 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

which is why Dante Scarnecchia is their true MVP....he retires last year and their O line looks average and Brady didn't have all day to scan the field.  He returns and the Great Wall of Brady returns. I've never seen an offense where the wr's are so consistently wide open either.

 

Yeah, but Broncos did beat them with Scarnecchia coaching in the 2013 AFCCG. It is the style of D that gets to Brady. A good pass rush with at least a couple of good man CBs, especially a VERY GOOD slot/nickel CB. 2013 - Seahawks kill the Broncos. Then they lose their outstanding nickel CB Walter Thurmond III to the Jags, and during the SB vs the Patriots, Cliff Avril goes out with a concussion when they are up 24-14. That is when Brady's comeback happens. Not to mention, Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas were playing hurt (had offseason surgeries pretty much quickly after SB) and Edelman took out the knees of their nickel CB Jeremy Lane in quarter 1 after a Brady INT.

 

I don't know, Patriots have a knack of taking out key players either through scheme or through injury. Bradshaw had a reputation of killing the Pats and he comes over to us and the game he went on IR was the game where the Pats' DL hurt his ankle and he was never the same (not sure if it was 2013 or 2014). Similar to what happened to Bell last night??? 

 

Chris Harris of the Broncos pretty much took Edelman out of the game in both AFCCG in 2013 and 2015 in the slot, and Talib took care of Gronk in the 2015 AFCCG. Champ Bailey was just there for the fun since it was DRC that did most of the work in 2013 and then Talib mugged Gronk in 2015, and the drafting of Bradley Roby and add in Wade Philips' schemes, you had a great recipe for limiting Brady.

 

The only person who could keep up with the Pats' regular season prowess at a high level to deny them the #1 seed was Peyton, and now he is gone. He denied Brady at least 2 times recently in 2013 and 2015, no doubt in my mind, and in the minds of Pats fans. They have never lost the AFCCG at home as a #1 seed. Brady Bunch, I see SB #5 at least for Brady.

[colt18]

It's building the same narrative that followed Peyton early in his career. The crazy part is Luck actually performed pretty well prior to that fake punt fiasco. If we punted the ball and the defense actually held, I feel like we could have won.

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, colt18 said:

It's building the same narrative that followed Peyton early in his career. The crazy part is Luck actually performed pretty well prior to that fake punt fiasco. If we punted the ball and the defense actually held, I feel like we could have won.

 

The first part about beating the Patriots is not to give them easy drives, short fields and not resorting to gadget plays with the mindset that you need it to beat them. You can never make up for several mistakes against them. You can make a mistake or two but the mistakes you can overcome would be more like throwing a pick close to their 10 or 20 yard line earlier in the game, which would be like a punt preserving field position still. Solid fundamentals, good pass D and playing field position is how Coughlin and the Giants beat them twice at the big stage.

[indyagent17]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Who else does.

 

You write "The game is pretty simple"     Then why don't the other 30 head coaches do a good job of it?

 

Things are never as simple as a fan thinks they are.     Never.

 

All I said was taking the way one player is simple. You put extra guys in the box for running back and an extra safety or linebacker for a receiver. Good coaches can do this others can't find the way. The problem is having the right personnel to do take others away which we do not have

[Track Guy]

Some of the games against the Patriots in the past were blown squarely by defensive melt downs. Like giving up well over 200 yards rushing. It can't be put on Luck. 

 

Anyways, yes the Patriots are the best team in the league. Overall they have been the best team over the past 15 years, and it's not just because of Tom Brady either. The coaching and roster management has been terrific all in all. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

We could beat the Patriots if we brought in some D playmakers in the last 5 years. The offense can score points. 

[JimJaime]

4 hours ago, P-Money said:

Pass rush is key!  Brady can't take a hit.  Secondly, stay the hell away from zone defense.  Bill and Josh are masters at getting their receivers to find holes in your zone.  Brady just has to sit back and wait for them to be wide open.  Getting in his face with pressure and getting the ball out faster really messes up his comfort zone. If the Texans had a decent offense they'd beat the Pats for sure and could be headed to the Super Bowl.  

I hear this all the time on how "Brady can't take a hit." . I think all here would agree he was hit more than a pinyatta in last years AFC Championship Game and if it wasn't for a RARE missed XP the Patriots and Broncos would have gone into OT after he led a last minute drive for the Tying TD.  Heck even in the list to the Giants in 07 when they TO hit him a lot he gave the Pats the lead with just over 2 minutes to go.  So yes he doesn't like getting hit (no QB does) it doesn't stop him from performing or coming threw when needed.

[P-Money]

43 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

I hear this all the time on how "Brady can't take a hit." . I think all here would agree he was hit more than a pinyatta in last years AFC Championship Game and if it wasn't for a RARE missed XP the Patriots and Broncos would have gone into OT after he led a last minute drive for the Tying TD.  Heck even in the list to the Giants in 07 when they TO hit him a lot he gave the Pats the lead with just over 2 minutes to go.  So yes he doesn't like getting hit (no QB does) it doesn't stop him from performing or coming threw when needed.

 

He's the biggest whiner in the league when he gets hit.  My point was that in order to beat them you have to get pressure on Brady otherwise you might as well pack up and go home.  They did lose those 2 games that you mentioned so what could've happened is a moot point.  Atlanta just shut down a very hot Rodgers (who is more dangerous imo) so they can definitely have a good shot at Brady 

 

One thing Atlanta doesn't have an answer for is Bill and Josh.  Together they're smarter than any duo in the league.  

[Bad Morty]

15 hours ago, IinD said:

 

Almost any intelligent young QB could have won a SB or two with Bill's system all these years. 

 

If this is true, why then would a football mind like Belichick, who has a demonstrated track record for releasing/trading players in their prime, not have traded Brady after, say, the 2004 Superbowl? Can you imagine the return he would have gotten for a 3 time SB winner in his mid twenties? It would have set the franchise up potentially for another decade of dominance, because he could have just plugged in any old "young intelligent QB" at cheap cap dollars and loaded the team everywhere else between the trade chips and the available cap money. But instead, he decided to just keep Brady. That pretty much destroys this argument that Brady is merely the lucky recipient of Bill's system.

[IinD]

1 minute ago, Bad Morty said:

 

If this is true, why then would a football mind like Belichick, who has a demonstrated track record for releasing/trading players in their prime, not have traded Brady after, say, the 2004 Superbowl? Can you imagine the return he would have gotten for a 3 time SB winner in his mid twenties? It would have set the franchise up potentially for another decade of dominance, because he could have just plugged in any old "young intelligent QB" at cheap cap dollars and loaded the team everywhere else between the trade chips and the available cap money. But instead, he decided to just keep Brady. That pretty much destroys this argument that Brady is merely the lucky recipient of Bill's system.

You never trade a top qb.

 

I meant he would have still had huge success with a bright hard working qb. Didn't say Jamarcus Russell would be mvp under Bill. Simply, he could work with and win with most intelligent qbs.

 

Bill has become that good.

 

 

[a06cc]

Patriots had homefield "wake them up" advantage.