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How hard is this?


Dustin

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"Despite recent unsubstantiated rumors from the press, there will be no changes (nor have any changes been attempted) to the team's coaching staff or front office personnel. I remain steadfast in my belief that Head Coach Chuck Pagano and General Manager Ryan Grigson will meet our goal of bringing a Lombardi Trophy back to the city of Indianapolis."

 

-Jim Irsay

 

There bud, I even wrote it for you. 

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18 minutes ago, Dustin said:

"Despite recent unsubstantiated rumors from the press, there will be no changes (nor have any changes been attempted) to the team's coaching staff or front office personnel. I remain steadfast in my belief that Head Coach Chuck Pagano and General Manager Ryan Grigson will meet our goal of bringing a Lombardi Trophy back to the city of Indianapolis."

 

-Jim Irsay

 

There bud, I even wrote it for you. 

Leave out the "nor have any changes been attempted," and you have an excellent non-denial denial.

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21 minutes ago, Dustin said:

"Despite recent unsubstantiated rumors from the press, there will be no changes (nor have any changes been attempted) to the team's coaching staff or front office personnel. I remain steadfast in my belief that Head Coach Chuck Pagano and General Manager Ryan Grigson will meet our goal of bringing a Lombardi Trophy back to the city of Indianapolis."

 

-Jim Irsay

 

There bud, I even wrote it for you. 

 

Looks good, other than the fact that he'd be flat-out lying. The rumors weren't unsubstantiated, he did attempt to make changes, he doesn't believe that Grigano will win a Super Bowl. Outside of those 3 factors, the statement is perfect. But it's waaay too late in the game now.

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30 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

if there is a change im pretty sure they will let us know

 

if they responded to every media rumor, then the media would make things up constantly, hoping to get a press conference out of it

 

Exactly.  Irsay was getting dissed for putting out too many tweets.  Now he's getting it for not tweeting enough.

 

If something changes, we'll know soon enough.

 

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1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

You're right, i'ts not that hard.  There's a difference between a right to ask and a right to know something.  Irsay's not obligated to disclose anything.  

 

You're obviously correct that he doesn't have to disclose anything. At this point, however, he's going to need to give Pagano a vote of confidence if he's the coach going forward IMHO. 

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1 hour ago, Dustin said:

"Despite recent unsubstantiated rumors from the press, there will be no changes (nor have any changes been attempted) to the team's coaching staff or front office personnel. I remain steadfast in my belief that Head Coach Chuck Pagano and General Manager Ryan Grigson will meet our goal of bringing a Lombardi Trophy back to the city of Indianapolis."

 

-Jim Irsay

 

There bud, I even wrote it for you. 

 

The fact that he still hasn't done this makes me think he's still working on something.

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Just now, Superman said:

 

The fact that he still hasn't done this makes me think he's still working on something.

The season isn't over and for all we know there are still a few coordinators prepping for this weekend that might be on his list. I'll wait until after the Superbowl to expect this to be closed unless he says anything beforehand.

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11 minutes ago, VocableLoki said:

You're obviously correct that he doesn't have to disclose anything. At this point, however, he's going to need to give Pagano a vote of confidence if he's the coach going forward IMHO. 

Maybe, but Pagano was on the hot seat before the season started.  A vote of confidence isn't going to do much because Pagano knows he turns in another bad year, he's just as likely to be canned at the end of next season as he was for not improving this past season.  Pagano doesn't need a vote of confidence, because if he ever wants to be a head coach anywhere outside of indianapolis, he'll have to do a better job than he has.  I don't see any team looking at his position and saying, "We need that guy if Indy is dumb enough to let him go."

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6 minutes ago, bababooey said:

The season isn't over and for all we know there are still a few coordinators prepping for this weekend that might be on his list. I'll wait until after the Superbowl to expect this to be closed unless he says anything beforehand.

 

Or, it could be a not-so-subtle middle finger to all the media speculators. There was one report that Irsay told Pagano he was safe. That might be the only accurate report in all of this...

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Just now, OffensivelyPC said:

Maybe, but Pagano was on the hot seat before the season started.  A vote of confidence isn't going to do much because Pagano knows he turns in another bad year, he's just as likely to be canned at the end of next season as he was for not improving this past season.  Pagano doesn't need a vote of confidence, because if he ever wants to be a head coach anywhere outside of indianapolis, he'll have to do a better job than he has.  I don't see any team looking at his position and saying, "We need that guy if Indy is dumb enough to let him go."

 

100% agree. I just think it's going to be easier in terms of speculation, media questions, etc if Irsay makes a statement. At least at that point Pagano and co can focus on the year at hand, maybe a public statement of support will deflect some of that.

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1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Maybe, but Pagano was on the hot seat before the season started.  A vote of confidence isn't going to do much because Pagano knows he turns in another bad year, he's just as likely to be canned at the end of next season as he was for not improving this past season.  Pagano doesn't need a vote of confidence, because if he ever wants to be a head coach anywhere outside of indianapolis, he'll have to do a better job than he has.  I don't see any team looking at his position and saying, "We need that guy if Indy is dumb enough to let him go."

 

He'd have to take the Jim Caldwell / Mike Smith (presumably) route back to being a head coach, and if you take him at his word, he's not interested. 

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1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Looks good, other than the fact that he'd be flat-out lying. The rumors weren't unsubstantiated, he did attempt to make changes, he doesn't believe that Grigano will win a Super Bowl. Outside of those 3 factors, the statement is perfect. But it's waaay too late in the game now.

 

Prove he would be lying.

 

Pro-Tip: You cant. And that's all that matters. 

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

He'd have to take the Jim Caldwell / Mike Smith (presumably) route back to being a head coach, and if you take him at his word, he's not interested. 

It's an oversimplification to say that if you can't coach a team well enough to get into the playoffs with a guy like andrew Luck, then you aren't cut out to be a head coach.  Even so, it's a pretty damning piece of evidence against you.  Perhaps Pagano feels similarly.  But I agree, it would take some time to get a HC role again if you're Pagano.

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23 minutes ago, bababooey said:

The season isn't over and for all we know there are still a few coordinators prepping for this weekend that might be on his list. I'll wait until after the Superbowl to expect this to be closed unless he says anything beforehand.

nevermind

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4 minutes ago, VocableLoki said:

100% agree. I just think it's going to be easier in terms of speculation, media questions, etc if Irsay makes a statement. At least at that point Pagano and co can focus on the year at hand, maybe a public statement of support will deflect some of that.

Well, you'd be giving the media more credit than I ever would.  I don't think anything will quell the speculation until Irsay says he's done looking or he's come up with a replacement - and there's no reason to announce any of that until you're sure its going to be done.  The speculation is what it is, and whether it's a coaching job or whatever, the media will speculate as to whether Irsay will do this or that because the team has missed the playoffs two years in a row in a weak division.  But i'ts not going to hurt the Colts, it's just an annoying fly taht won't stop flying around your food.  

 

I personally wouldn't care what the media says if I were Irsay.  If it were me, I'd be upfront with Grigson and Pagano - and I can only assume he has been since no one has so much as made a peep to the media - andlet them know, hey, you guys are here to stay for now.  That said, no job is safe because of X, Y, and Z - and we all could name a number of good reasons why they should go.  Like any employee without a viable replacement, you always have time to change your employers mind and that's what I think Irsay has impressed on both Pagano and Grigson.  I'm speculating of course, but at least in that scenario, you have guys with incentive to improve but still the justification to negotiate with candidates without losing the loyalty of your subordinates.  I'ts no secret anyone can be replaced at any time in the NFL, but with a little diplomacy, you can maintain the status quo.

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1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

It's an oversimplification to say that if you can't coach a team well enough to get into the playoffs with a guy like andrew Luck, then you aren't cut out to be a head coach.  Even so, it's a pretty damning piece of evidence against you.  Perhaps Pagano feels similarly.  But I agree, it would take some time to get a HC role again if you're Pagano.

 

Wild-eyed theory time:

 

I was recently looking at some of the comments Grigson has made about Pagano's interview. A couple things are eyebrow-raising. First, Grigson basically had to beg Pagano to interview, and Pagano had a bunch of lame excuses for why he couldn't -- my suits in the cleaners, etc. Grigson liked Pagano prior to getting the Indy job, he tried to get Pagano to the Eagles as DC when he was still the Ravens DB coach. So Grigson was a driving force in getting Pagano to seriously consider the job.

 

Second, last year, when the Indy reporters wouldn't stop asking Pagano whether he thought he was going to be fired -- around the time he gave the 'they can't eat you' line, he basically said he didn't plan to take any other job in the NFL. Said if he didn't get a new contract, he'd basically pack up and go back to Idaho, be with his family, and be happy. There are worse ways to go out. And while he was being PC and media-friendly, he seemed sincere enough, and it was a balanced outlook.

 

Pagano's overall attitude kind of has an 'I can take it or leave it' kind of feel to it. I'm not saying he hasn't worked his butt off, and I'm not saying he isn't committed to his job. In no way am I trying to question his commitment. But maybe Pagano was planning to retire before he got the Indy job, not right away, but within a few years. He has young grandkids, his daughters are across the country, he's been in the business as a coach for 30+ years, etc. Maybe his whole 'I don't know if I should interview' was because he was planning to walk away at some point in the near future...? 

 

This has no basis in fact, aside from connecting some very far away dots. But it wouldn't surprise me if Pagano got fired and never worked full time in the NFL again. He's almost 60, just survived cancer, and would walk away with a nice chunk of change. 

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12 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 

 

Prove he would be lying.

 

Pro-Tip: You cant. And that's all that matters. 

 

He's not on trial in a court of law, this is a court of public opinion type of matter. Everyone from the fans, the players, to Grigson & Pagano themselves, they all know that Irsay went after potential replacements in Gruden and Manning.

 

Obviously he wouldn't be able to go up and say that in a press conference without looking really bad, but it's pretty much a known fact now. On the flip-side if he goes up there and says he didn't, then everyone knows he's lying, which is worse. If I had to guess I'd say that he'll be in hibernation until about April 27th.

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2 hours ago, Dustin said:

"Despite recent unsubstantiated rumors from the press, there will be no changes (nor have any changes been attempted) to the team's coaching staff or front office personnel. I remain steadfast in my belief that Head Coach Chuck Pagano and General Manager Ryan Grigson will meet our goal of bringing a Lombardi Trophy back to the city of Indianapolis."

 

-Jim Irsay

 

There bud, I even wrote it for you. 

You are making alot of assumptions with thos statements considering none of us know whats happening behind the scenes. I'm confused and frustrated too, but it hasn't even been 3 weeks.

i'm ok with jim taking as long as it takes to do what it takes, whatever that is.

jim has never seemed to make rash, quick decisions.  This is a good thing. I, like many of us are kinda on the fence with Grigs/pagano.  More with pags, imo.  But if o change for change sake is not prudent either.

if jim did talk to gruden and/or manning, would you still want him saying this? Of cours not, he'd be lying.

i can't believe we won't hear something soon.  But if he is lo  for a change, the coaches still in playoffs could be part of the holdup.

waitng is hard, but its better than an owner who makes changes as the wind blows.

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2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Wild-eyed theory time:

 

I was recently looking at some of the comments Grigson has made about Pagano's interview. A couple things are eyebrow-raising. First, Grigson basically had to beg Pagano to interview, and Pagano had a bunch of lame excuses for why he couldn't -- my suits in the cleaners, etc. Grigson liked Pagano prior to getting the Indy job, he tried to get Pagano to the Eagles as DC when he was still the Ravens DB coach. So Grigson was a driving force in getting Pagano to seriously consider the job.

 

Second, last year, when the Indy reporters wouldn't stop asking Pagano whether he thought he was going to be fired -- around the time he gave the 'they can't eat you' line, he basically said he didn't plan to take any other job in the NFL. Said if he didn't get a new contract, he'd basically pack up and go back to Idaho, be with his family, and be happy. There are worse ways to go out. And while he was being PC and media-friendly, he seemed sincere enough, and it was a balanced outlook.

 

Pagano's overall attitude kind of has an 'I can take it or leave it' kind of feel to it. I'm not saying he hasn't worked his butt off, and I'm not saying he isn't committed to his job. In no way am I trying to question his commitment. But maybe Pagano was planning to retire before he got the Indy job, not right away, but within a few years. He has young grandkids, his daughters are across the country, he's been in the business as a coach for 30+ years, etc. Maybe his whole 'I don't know if I should interview' was because he was planning to walk away at some point in the near future...? 

 

This has no basis in fact, aside from connecting some very far away dots. But it wouldn't surprise me if Pagano got fired and never worked full time in the NFL again. He's almost 60, just survived cancer, and would walk away with a nice chunk of change. 

Actually, your second paragraph jarred my memory.  I forgot that he said that he'd go back to Idaho.  And his take-it-or-leave-it attitude is completely understandable when the leave-it part means mroe family time, especially considering his condition at the start of 2012.  Staring a potentially terminal condition in the eye certainly could have that effect on your perspective.  

 

Part of me hopes he is a better coach, part of me is ready to move on, but I don't think your theory is out of line.  At the least, I would not be surprised in the least if he had an exit interview saying exactly that.

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37 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The fact that he still hasn't done this makes me think he's still working on something.

 

I can't help but speculate the same thing, it does feel like time is kind of running out to do something though. The combine starts on the 28th of February, so if he's still trying to find replacements, you'd think he'd want to have it done within the next week.

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1 minute ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

Everyone from the fans, the players, to Grigson & Pagano themselves, they all know that Irsay went after potential replacements in Gruden and Manning.

 

We really DON'T know that.

 

The one piece of evidence that everyone is hanging onto is that Irsay's plane was in Houston. Well, the "report" said he spent 10 hours in Houston with Gruden, but his plane wasn't in Houston for 10 hours. So that "report" is specious. 

 

I know that the court of public opinion has determined that it's incontrovertible fact that Irsay went after Gruden, but that doesn't mean they're right. What people think they know is one thing; what they actually know is another.

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1 hour ago, backshoulderfade said:

I didn't think about this until I saw it elsewhere, but he owes it to not only to season ticket holders, but also you Indy taxpayers who funded his stadium.

This whole social media thing makes us the no ALL info should be known when WE want:. The real world doesnt work that way.  

Jim may "owe" the ticket holders and taxpayers as you said, but not before the season is even over?  Give the guy some time, it hasnt been 3,weeks.  I would hope they are still analyzing THIS year's results, and weighing ALL options before making a move, let alone informing us of those plans:

this isn't rocket science.

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7 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

He's not on trial in a court of law, this is a court of public opinion type of matter. Everyone from the fans, the players, to Grigson & Pagano themselves, they all know that Irsay went after potential replacements in Gruden and Manning.

 

Obviously he wouldn't be able to go up and say that in a press conference without looking really bad, but it's pretty much a known fact now. On the flip-side if he goes up there and says he didn't, then everyone knows he's lying, which is worse. If I had to guess I'd say that he'll be in hibernation until about April 27th.

I think Dustin's point, or part of it, was that media speculation isn't proof of anything so there's nothing ti disprove.  In other words, Irsay is, despite the rumors, still able to control his story because while ther's lots of rumors, they are just that, and no one with whom the rumors concern has come out and refuted or confirmed anything.  

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

We really DON'T know that.

 

The one piece of evidence that everyone is hanging onto is that Irsay's plane was in Houston. Well, the "report" said he spent 10 hours in Houston with Gruden, but his plane wasn't in Houston for 10 hours. So that "report" is specious. 

 

I know that the court of public opinion has determined that it's incontrovertible fact that Irsay went after Gruden, but that doesn't mean they're right. What people think they know is one thing; what they actually know is another.

 

With regards to Gruden, Adam Schefter said it, candidly, on ESPN, where he serves as both Gruden's co-worker and in-house NFL Twitter bot. If he's fabricating this, even in the slightest, he's putting his entire career as an NFL insider in jeopardy, and I just don't see him doing that. It's one thing to be wrong, it's a total other thing to be making stuff up.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18472970/jim-irsay-indianapolis-colts-owner-pursued-monday-night-football-analyst-jon-gruden-head-coaching-job

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3 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Actually, your second paragraph jarred my memory.  I forgot that he said that he'd go back to Idaho.  And his take-it-or-leave-it attitude is completely understandable when the leave-it part means mroe family time, especially considering his condition at the start of 2012.  Staring a potentially terminal condition in the eye certainly could have that effect on your perspective.  

 

Part of me hopes he is a better coach, part of me is ready to move on, but I don't think your theory is out of line.  At the least, I would not be surprised in the least if he had an exit interview saying exactly that.

I love his views on what is really important in life, just not in the context of coaching.  Sure, health, family, etc is more important than football.  But NOT for 60 minutes every Sunday. Chuck is a little too laid back for me.

i know other people who battled death and won.  Their attitudes toward work greatly changed.  While i'm not judging or arguing that, i don't know that that is the attitude you want in an NFL head coach.

chuck has made some comments, like that he ones you mentioned, that struck me wrong. I want a coach that treats EVERY season as his last.

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7 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

This whole social media thing makes us the no ALL info should be known when WE want:. The real world doesnt work that way.  

Jim may "owe" the ticket holders and taxpayers as you said, but not before the season is even over?  Give the guy some time, it hasnt been 3,weeks.  I would hope they are still analyzing THIS year's results, and weighing ALL options before making a move, let alone informing us of those plans:

this isn't rocket science.

Lions did it.

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Just now, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I can't help but speculate the same thing, it does feel like time is kind of running out to do something though. The combine starts on the 28th of February, so if he's still trying to find replacements, you'd think he'd want to have it done within the next week.

 

Typically, yes. But teams usually don't change scouting staff until late in the offseason, after the draft, after you've signed UDFAs, etc. So the Combine probably isn't that big of an issue. If Irsay wanted to wait until after the SB for a specific candidate, especially at head coach, he probably could. The only problem is getting the coordinators and assistant coaches you want, but I get the feeling anyone desirable enough to wait until after the SB for will be able to put together a staff. 

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