Why I'm beefing with the Colts passing offense

[2006Coltsbestever]

19 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Wish the Colts gave Luck more designed run plays. We did a read option play and Luck kept it and ran almost 30 yards. And that play was never to be seen again.

I wish we would've ran that on 4th and 1 actually, I would bet Andrew would've got the first down.

[RockThatBlue]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Just watched that play, it was against the Texans in the second game.

I'm not saying Luck should run a lot, but hell, if Cam Newton can have designed run plays, why can't Luck get 3 or 4 a game? He gets 5+ yards almost every time he takes off and runs, so why not? Plus, he slides now so he would go down. (or go out of bounds) if he thought he was gonna get hit very hard. I feel like the Colts don't use his running ability as a weapon, heck we don't even call boot legs for him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

I'm not saying Luck should run a lot, but hell, if Cam Newton can have designed run plays, why can't Luck get 3 or 4 a game? He gets 5+ yards almost every time he takes off and runs, so why not? Plus, he slides now so he would go down. (or go out of bounds) if he thought he was gonna get hit very hard. I feel like the Colts don't use his running ability as a weapon, heck we don't even call boot legs for him.

I think he will run more again this upcoming season because he really wasn't seriously injured this season. He had 1 concussion and that was it missing 1 game.

[RockThatBlue]

17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I wish we would've ran that on 4th and 1 actually, I would bet Andrew would've got the first down.

Now that I think about it, the Colts did something similar in the Chiefs playoff game years back. I think it was a 4th down, we did a read option play and Luck ran 20 something yards I think it was. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 1/11/2017 at 5:21 AM, zibby43 said:

These posts comprised the best Colts offensive analysis I've seen in the past two years.

 

Many, many thanks Superman.  Thank you for taking the time to share that write-up.  Colts need you as an analyst man.  For real. 

 

 

This is great for fans, especially if they're not well versed in schemes and concepts.

 

Quote

You would think t and concepts.hey'd have someone on staff that does this kind of self-scouting (looking for tendencies, etc.).

 

 

The  Colts, indeed, do have 'hat type of guy', Frank Giufre, offense quality control specialist.

http://www.colts.com/team/coaches/Frank-Giufre/12852a81-ec6c-4039-be9e-7aa305adbf44

 

Here's a little about what the Offense QC guy does-

 

"Now that the Computer Age is upon us, the analyzing has become more technical. Many of those coaches have assistants called the "Quality Control Coach." However, the QCC doesn't really do much coaching at all. They spend all day multitasking, breaking down film up to five weeks in advance and analyzing data. They work all hours, in hotel lobbies, on airplanes and at their team's headquarters producing reports for their Head Coach. They do get to do some coaching though. The QC coaches often run the "Scout" team in practices. From their extensive film work and breaking down plays, the QCC can be a great help preparing their team because they also know the tendencies of their opponents. They make sure the Scout teams give the starters an accurate look at what they'll face on Sunday in practice during game weeks."

 

Here is an interesting factoid about QC coaches. The position as we know it in modern day football was created by Mike Holmgren in 1990 when he was the Offensive Coordinator for the San Francisco 49ers and he needed someone to transcribe the Niners Playbook and copy it to a computer. That someone was Jon Gruden. The job also included analyzing opponents, breaking down statistics, tracking and charting plays during games and fetching coffee.

 

Long 18 hour days breaking down film. He, and many other HC's were once the QC coach.  It's the best learning position on the club.

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

22 hours ago, GoColtsWin said:

Thank you Supe for the amazing posts! You have educated me on some things, and it's gonna be hard to ignore these facts. Wow. How can minute details be pointed out on a forum like this, but go unnoticed/unheaded by our coaching staff?

 

They're not, trust me. Monday is film and ( weight lifting ) treatment  day . It's gone over 2-3 hours on film on Mondays.

 

The players get Tuesday off, while QCC, OC, HC, and rest of relevant offense coaches (and sometimes QB) discuss a game plan for the OC to generate for the  next opponent and gets installed beginning Wednesday in practice.

[NewColtsFan]

 

On top of Superman's post, I'd like to add this instead of starting a separate thread....

 

I'm a big Chud fan, and yet there were three games this season that concerned me greatly.....    The two games with Houston and the game with KC.

 

In all three games the feeling I got was this.....    that we were incredibly well scouted.    That the new what we were doing before we did.      That they had tapped into our headsets and new the calls.

 

I get this feeling when it feels like this to me.....   when it feels like the opposing defense has 12 men on the field on every play.     That our receivers are covered like blankets,  that there are no holes for our RB's,   and that there is simply no room, no space for our players to operate.    That for our players,  it must feel like they're facing a 12-man defense on all plays.   

 

You can't tell that by box score,  but rather by watching...   by the eye-ball test....   by feel.

 

And all of this concerns me.     I didn't expect that with Chud.     I hope we are self-scouting ourselves so that we understand what tendencies we have and we're not so predictable.     Because it feels like we are in certain games.   

 

Not every week.    But enough weeks to keep us out of the playoffs.    Now, I recognize that Houston and Kansas City have terrific defenses,  but still...   I'm expecting better.

 

I hope not to see this next season.

 

[zibby43]

2 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

This is great for fans, especially if they're not well versed in schemes and concepts.

 

 

The  Colts, indeed, do have 'hat type of guy', Frank Giufre, offense quality control specialist.

http://www.colts.com/team/coaches/Frank-Giufre/12852a81-ec6c-4039-be9e-7aa305adbf44

 

Here's a little about what the Offense QC guy does-

 

"Now that the Computer Age is upon us, the analyzing has become more technical. Many of those coaches have assistants called the "Quality Control Coach." However, the QCC doesn't really do much coaching at all. They spend all day multitasking, breaking down film up to five weeks in advance and analyzing data. They work all hours, in hotel lobbies, on airplanes and at their team's headquarters producing reports for their Head Coach. They do get to do some coaching though. The QC coaches often run the "Scout" team in practices. From their extensive film work and breaking down plays, the QCC can be a great help preparing their team because they also know the tendencies of their opponents. They make sure the Scout teams give the starters an accurate look at what they'll face on Sunday in practice during game weeks."

 

Here is an interesting factoid about QC coaches. The position as we know it in modern day football was created by Mike Holmgren in 1990 when he was the Offensive Coordinator for the San Francisco 49ers needed someone to transcribe the Niners Playbook and copy it to a computer. That someone was Jon Gruden. The job also included analyzing opponents, breaking down statistics, tracking and charting plays during games and fetching coffee.

 

Long 18 hour days breaking down film. He, and many other HC's were once the QC coach.  It's the best learning position on the club.

 

 

 

1) Agreed.  It's also great for those of us that do take pride in our knowledge of the game.  It's nice to have members (moderators, in this instance) like you and Superman (to name a few).  We can engage in in-depth discussions/analysis with you.

 

For those that are wanting to learn more about the game, threads like this, and posts like yours, are invaluable.

 

2) I know that the Colts have a plethora of analysts charged with self-scouting etc.  Don't they also have an analyst whose sole job is to help determine whether or not Chuck should challenge a play?  And didn't that replay/review consultant role, at one time, belong to Jim Tressel? 

 

My comment was a tongue-in-cheek one.  Should've used an emoticon or something.  If that person (sounds like I'm talking about "Frank") was doing his job to the best of his abilities, some of the recurrent problems that astute, knowledgeable viewers like Superman point out, would not be happening.

 

Unless, at the end of the day, these "problems" are merely the result of philosophical scheme differences (which has to be, at least, partially true).  That begs the question, why be married to a scheme that is not going to facilitate the best chances for success, particularly when other successful offenses around the league are constantly evolving to stay ahead of the competition: opposing defenses?

 

3) That QC specialist factoid was a good one.  Illuminating, too.  Thanks for sharing.

[VaAllDay757]

No slants or outside runs that's been the problem for a long time since luck has been in indy

[Superman]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I get this feeling when it feels like this to me.....   when it feels like the opposing defense has 12 men on the field on every play.     That our receivers are covered like blankets,  that there are no holes for our RB's,   and that there is simply no room, no space for our players to operate.    That for our players,  it must feel like they're facing a 12-man defense on all plays.   

 

I was watching the second Houston game last night, and it's hard to believe how often they played 8-10 yards off on the outside, including on third down. They got beat on a few plays, but for the most part they came out ahead -- two picks, a sack fumble on 3rd and goal, etc. The play calling was very cringe-worthy in that game, IMO.

[NewColtsFan]

46 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I was watching the second Houston game last night, and it's hard to believe how often they played 8-10 yards off on the outside, including on third down. They got beat on a few plays, but for the most part they came out ahead -- two picks, a sack fumble on 3rd and goal, etc. The play calling was very cringe-worthy in that game, IMO.

 

Disappointing to learn this.

 

I'm hoping 2017 is a much better year for Rob Chudzinski....

[HBA2]

Andrew Luck is a throwback QB. Tough as nails but not cerebral, at all. It's obvious he hasn't had good coaching, at least in terms of being an efficient QB. I don't think he'll ever be as great as we're all hoping. 5 years into his career, he's still staring down receivers, doesn't have a grasp of what defenses are trying to do to him, and is still incapable of taking total ownership of the offense and the team. At a certain point, as an elite QB, you should have control of how the offense practices and be cleaning up any poor execution and timing from receivers through individual reps. 

 

Now maybe the coaches haven't given him that much command yet, but for someone who is being paid as the franchise, I expect Luck to be a perfectionist and take over, once he's mastered the scheme. He has some of the worst progression reads in the league, not exaggerating. It's easy to blame the OC, but people forget that he worked with a rookie Cam Newton and did some quality work there. Their offense never looked as stubbornly vertical as ours does (with 3 different OC in a 5 year span) The reason for that is because it's not the OC that are forcing things, it's Luck. Arians takes a major blame for that, as I feel his QB coaching in Luck's rookie season was very influential to the player he is today.

 

Bottomline, the only way Luck lives up to his potential is if he's paired with someone who can rebuild him as a QB, similar to how Todd Hailey did Big Ben. Ben wasn't a fan of it at first, but only NOW is he universally regarded as an elite QB. Before Hailey, he was always considered a good QB  playing with a dominant defense, that had a nak for making big plays in big moments (much like Eli)

 

Luck needs a real teacher, not another enabler